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Doodmons posted:Don't use the Requiem Blood Sorcery rules. Apparently nobody at Onyx Path ever read Murderous Maths books as a child and don't understand the implications of putting "double the radius for every +2 successes" at the end of the table. I had a character in one of my games who had a middling-to-high sorcery pool who could do 70 aggravated damage to everything within the solar system. Don't ever write 'double X for every Y in any book ever because it gets out of hand incredibly quickly. Without a cap, anyway. If Y can never be higher than, say, 3 (or you just say it stops doubling then), you can probably get away with writing it. WoD is not that system. (Also that's hilarious. Take that, small asteroids!)
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Jul 16, 2016 16:17
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And that's how the Vampire Nebula was created.
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Jul 16, 2016 16:20
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As I recall, a lot of the threnodies were some combination of dumb and poorly mechanized. Like, "roll to see how high your stats will go for an extended period" is just bad.
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Jul 16, 2016 17:55
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Ferrinus posted:As I recall, a lot of the threnodies were some combination of dumb and poorly mechanized. Like, "roll to see how high your stats will go for an extended period" is just bad. How else would you become a more perfect monster...?
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Jul 16, 2016 18:12
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Blood Sorcery was very poorly considered. It made Cruac and Theban Sorcery largely identical at the upper levels and felt divorced from a lot of the themes of Vampire. It could have used either a lot more revision or a lot more expansion; as it was, there did not seem either the time or the page count to do either one. It's a decent system to hang some houserules on though if you had the inclination.
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Jul 16, 2016 19:43
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Attorney at Funk posted:How else would you become a more perfect monster...? Become a xenomorph?
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Jul 16, 2016 19:44
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Attorney at Funk posted:How else would you become a more perfect monster...? 
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Jul 16, 2016 20:25
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MonsieurChoc posted:The trailer for the documentary is out on the youtubes. Spoilers: it's bad. What fresh loving unwashed hell is this?
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Jul 17, 2016 06:05
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That trailer is so self-fellating I'm surprised they didn't choke on their own balls.
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Jul 17, 2016 06:18
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Well, they did say they wanted to emulate MR*H. At this point it wouldn't surprise me to find out that Ericsson has a Rein*Hagen bodypillow.
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Jul 17, 2016 07:19
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So did the 90's not die in Europe?
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Jul 17, 2016 07:27
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jim truds posted:So did the 90's not die in Europe? More like a bunch of dudes at PDS have the money and now the IP to do their best to pretend it never did.
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Jul 17, 2016 07:31
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jim truds posted:So did the 90's not die in Europe? Beyond that, just suffice to say that for whatever post-religious airs it puts on, European society and politics are deeply steeped in Christianity (the denial is most evident in France these days). Goth's a perennially easy, readily available set for people who feel alienated by that history, because it outwardly defies Xtian symbology, deliberately blurs gender and sexuality, and flirts with the occult on occasion., Occult's is just another word for "borrowed pre-Christian mysticism". The belief in a mythopoetic Time Before is notable insofar as such nostalgia almost always lends itself to reactionary politics (one of many things that oWoD Werewolf and black metal have in common). So yeah, goth's still kicking.
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Jul 17, 2016 08:23
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Gerund posted:What was really important and new and interesting in role-playing games from 1991 is bloody dungeon porn and hot people in fetish wear 1991 was a weird loving time, man.  Doodmons posted:Don't use the Requiem Blood Sorcery rules. Apparently nobody at Onyx Path ever read Murderous Maths books as a child and don't understand the implications of putting "double the radius for every +2 successes" at the end of the table. I had a character in one of my games who had a middling-to-high sorcery pool who could do 70 aggravated damage to everything within the solar system. Don't ever write 'double X for every Y in any book ever because it gets out of hand incredibly quickly. Rigorous mathhammering has never been a strong suit of the WoD. And yeah, the 2E rules are better than the 1E rules, as a gutshot is better than a headshot. I mean, holy hell the flowchart for the Improv Magic system in 1E was an org chart drawn by a schizophrenic. The main problem is keeping the charts straight for size scaling and the level of stuff you can do/hold with different Gnosis levels. I already have a houserule going forward that everyone starts at the same Gnosis because my players forget what their Gnosis allows and I forget who has what and if any of their Merits matter and then we actually have to cast a spell and consult Reach and the spellcasting dice bonuses and it just turns into a mess. At least it doesn't give me a headache like 1E or (gods forbid) Ascension. E: Y'all say they're botching oWoD but I assure you this is what a lot of people legit wanted/think. It's dumb and pretentious, but so was oWoD. MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 08:41
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Basic Chunnel posted:Corny industrial metal of the kind that was all over the Bloodlines licensed soundtrack still draws decent crowds out there - Ministry runs just-a-tier-above-bar venues stateside but iirc they released a live album not too long ago that was recorded in a respectably sized Parisian theater. The grave rave dream lives on in the old countries. Having lived in Germany a bit, and have friends who make music in those sorts of scenes (Modulate and Deviant UK), the difference between goth/industrial/ebm in Germany, is different to that of the UK and other European countries. Goth just is not as popular as it was in the UK, and that can be said in places other that Germany.
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Jul 17, 2016 18:05
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MadRhetoric posted:
Cheat sheets, my man, cheat sheets. Seriously though, it took us a good while the first few times through the process, but by session three or so, it was going pretty smooth. And honestly, I love the way that you build up your bonuses and stuff through things that you need to do in character. Also reach is super cool, and really enforces the hubris theme by making paradox basically only something you can self-inflict.
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Jul 19, 2016 11:56
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How does an Assembly punish crimes? I'm running a Mage game in the Los Angeles setting, and I'm at a point where I want to show how the Assembly deals with criminals and set a precedent for future stories. There isn't a ton of information on how an Assembly functions on its own when it isn't aligned with a Consilium (I would love some content about this in Tome of the Pentacle!), so I'm making stuff up as I go. My design goals:
I guess the obvious route would be to just have a majority vote on the verdict in Assembly, but LA is a huge city and that might not always be feasible. One idea that I'm considering: when someone is brought to trial for a serious crime, a small jury (drawn randomly from the pool of eligible Libertines and Voters) is called.* The accused has the right to a defender, typically a Syndic. Another Syndic must volunteer to prosecute- if no one is willing to prosecute the crime, it must not be a legitimate grievance. Prosecutor and defender make their cases before the jury, including suggested punishments. Jury confers until they reach a unanimous decision on the appropriate punishment. Decision is announced to Assembly as a whole, who then have the option to veto the jury's decision and try again with a different set of Syndics and jurors.** *: wizards groaning about jury duty is funny to me **: i have this image of a controversial case that's been retried many times and almost everyone has juried for once, and has become more of an identity issue as the original crime long since ceases to be relevant- what will happen when there are no more eligible jurors or syndics left?
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Jul 23, 2016 10:56
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Stealing how the Ob-lobs from Greg Stolze's Reign setting have their criminal justice system work, an Assembly would solve a criminal justice problem the same way they solve other serious issues - they appoint a Strategoi. Let's say Abraxas is accused of deliberately destroying the resonance of Kallistus' Hallow and the Assembly needs to determine if he did it and what the punishment should be. They do a whip-round to see who the most qualified Prime mage is, appoint them to investigate the issue and then act on their recommendations. Let's say they appoint Quantic the Prime master, who's a dab hand with scrutinising resonance but an Int 1 goober with no legal experience. Quantic rapidly determines that yes, Abraxas did the deed but has no idea how to proceed. As Strategoi, he does a whip-round to see if the Assembly has a legal expert and appoints Sirius - a Mastigos with 5 dots in Academics and a specialty in Law - as co-Strategoi and then lets him handle the appropriate punishment. Abraxas gets geas'd to never do that again, has three months to come up with an amount of Tass equal to the amount that Kallistus would have had if his Hallow still worked and Quantic does a ritual to fix his Hallow. Problem solved, the Strategoi step down and return to the ranks. Alternatively: two mages enter, one mage leaves.
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Jul 24, 2016 14:35
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I like magetalk because it allows me to access the experience of someone with no familiarity with the things I like watching me talk about them at length
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Jul 24, 2016 19:26
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Speaking of Mage, the 2e errata just came out, and I'm pleased at most of the changes - especially temporal sympathy getting more explicit limitations on how it works. I also feel personally responsible for the sanity caps on Rend Friction after my post in the F+F thread about dealing hundreds of thousands of levels of damage with it
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Jul 24, 2016 20:57
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Oh wow, are they finally backing off the "Fraying degrades the Arcanum's purview and also casts Damage Bolt I" thing? Incredible. It looks like Death 4 alone is still sufficient to transmogrify living flesh to pure shadow, though??
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Jul 24, 2016 22:22
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Daeren posted:Speaking of Mage, the 2e errata just came out
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Jul 24, 2016 22:52
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxveHUKxwBU9UUZ4UjZJdEhIM2c/view (This is just a summary of mechanical changes; not including all the typos, visual glitches, and suchlike)
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Jul 24, 2016 22:54
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Mind clarifying the whole hanging spell/conditional spell thing for me? That was a thing that confused me from the start. Conditional duration means the spell ends on a specific trigger and is an attainment, while you actually cast Hang Spell and have that eating up your active spell slot alongside another spell to have the spell take effect on a specific trigger?
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Jul 24, 2016 22:57
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Mors Rattus posted:Mind clarifying the whole hanging spell/conditional spell thing for me? That was a thing that confused me from the start. Conditional duration means the spell ends on a specific trigger and is an attainment, while you actually cast Hang Spell and have that eating up your active spell slot alongside another spell to have the spell take effect on a specific trigger? Yup. Conditional Duration means you can put a "end spell now" clause onto a spell. Hang Spell is a spell that you cast other spells into and delays their starting by its own duration. You put the two together, and you can build "If... Then" preprepared magic, at the cost of burning through your spell control slots.
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Jul 24, 2016 23:05
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My main objection to this is the difficulty in laying a curse that only triggers when someone actually does the forbidden thing. Sworn Oaths can do it, but I can't lay a curse that way unless someone agrees to it, and that seems like a lot of work to go through to be able to go 'IF YOU EVER DO THIS AGAIN, YOU'LL GET FUUUUUUUUCKED'
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Jul 24, 2016 23:09
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Yup. And then make the originator of the legacy Jack Vance/Gary Gygax because why even pretend at subtlety at this point
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Jul 25, 2016 00:05
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Yawgmoth posted:Now make a legacy based around doing this but with spells of specific dot levels, and the conditions are things like lighting a candle next to a bag and flinging bat poop. "Hanging Spells" and triggering them when the appropriate time comes feels more like Merlin in Zelazny's Amber than Vance.
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Jul 25, 2016 03:04
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ulmont posted:"Hanging Spells" and triggering them when the appropriate time comes feels more like Merlin in Zelazny's Amber than Vance. Yeah, Vance's wizards are on to some Exarch poo poo. Spells too big for your brain to handle more than one at a time and which require bargaining with insanely powerful beings to even learn at all, that's Exarch territory. Join the Old-Seer-Renaissance.
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Jul 25, 2016 09:20
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Hanging spells would actually be a decent use of an Attainment. Here's the bones of a Legacy I put together, crits and suggestions welcome: The Vancian Circle "Death is certain." The Vancians are a small Legacy within the Free Council and something of a historical curiosity, respected more for their ideas than their deeds. They originated on the West Coast in the late 1960s from a correspondence group of Libertine fans of the Dying Earth stories of Jack Vance and other weird fantasy authors. Latter-day imaginings of Tolkien's Gandalf and the paintings of Frank Frazetta are also primary references, along with a whole universe of less-known authors and artists. Their original magical theory revolves around channeling the popular Sleeper conception of magic and wizardry as a new Supernal symbol and a means to trick the Lie, but many Vancians have retreated from that high ideal in favor of the sheer glee of carefully hoarded and controlled power. The stereotypical Vancian in 2016 is a cloaked and bitter greybeard more interested in gazing longingly into their crystal ball and enchanting their Wizard Van than enlightening the masses. Still, the Legacy sees it as their mission to disseminate (very, very specific) artistic visions of wizardry among Sleepers in an effort to normalize magic, (although their contempt for anything produced after about 1992 has made them miss out on some obvious waves to ride, including the Free Council's own Ancient Lands Pentalogy) and to directly battle those Seer pylons (and Guardians) who censor potential depictions of true magic from popular culture. In addition to their great skill at the Duel Arcane and knowledge of the Temenos realms of many popular fantasy works, the Vancians are known for their unique and esoteric rotes, including an infamous Forces spell that is most useful for lifting victims into the air and spinning them around super fast until they die. The Legacy has always had a strong epistolary tradition, including the bitter rivalries and elaborate insults that can only be realized in text form. They maintain an ancient Forces-secured Usenet server for most communication to this day, and anyone hoping to uncover their secrets will have decades of archived threads to unravel. Parentage: Obrimos or Free Council Primary Arcanum: Time Prerequisites: Time 2, Shadow Name 1, Expression 2 Attainments First: ? Prerequisites: Initiation The Vancian is assisted in their preparations by knowing what exactly to prepare. By writing out a phrase in the High Speech, the mage instinctively Knows whether the statement is true or false. This is most often used for spell preparation, as in, "I will need a Forces spell of the Fraying practice within the next week." This Attainment emulates the spell "Divination", except that it may only be used to ask questions that can be conveyed in High Speech. Especially cautious mages can use High Speech describe the Imagos of very specific spells when they want to be absolutely certain. Traditionally, Vancians use this Attainment by writing the statement on a mirror or orb with "Invisible Runes". Optional: Prime 1 Whenever they have Active Mage Sight including both Prime and Time and they choose to Counterspell, the Vancian may automatically score successes equal to their Prime dots on the Clash of Wills. This explicitly applies to Prime 2 "Universal Counterspell" as well. Second: ? Prerequisites: Time 2 [Some kind of Time thing? I got nothing right now.] Optional: Prime 2 Whenever they incorporate High Speech as a Yantra, the Vancian automatically gains 9-again on the spellcasting roll. This emulates "As Above, So Below." Third: ? Prerequisites: Time 3 A wizard is always prepared. The Vancian has 2 "spell slots", increased to 3 at Time 4, which emulate individual castings of "Hung Spell". When casting a spell, the mage can incorporate the spell slot into its Imago to store it for later, although unlike Hung Spell there is no Mana cost. Each spell slot has a maximum Duration as if the mage was casting Hung Spell with Advanced Duration as its primary factor. The mage can reflexively end this Attainment's Duration to "fire" the stored spell. This Attainment can explicitly be modified by Fate 2 "Conditional Duration," most often by speaking a prepared magical phrase, but other options are available if the wizard expects to be silenced. This is typically used to ritual cast a spell in a favorable environment for higher spell factors than could be expected in the field. Optional: Prime 3 The Vancian's preparations are hidden from prying eyes. Stored spells are protected by a "Supernal Veil" effect that automatically scores successes equal to their Prime dots on the Clash of Wills. Fourth: ? Prerequisites: Time 4 [Can't decide: either Time 2 'Choose the Thread' applied to spellcasting rolls, or if possible Time 4 'Rewrite History' allowing the mage to retroactively fill an empty spell slot by having cast an appropriate spell for the current situation] Optional: Fate 4 Preparation is inherently valuable. When the Vancian has all of their spell slots full, they benefit from a Fate boon: 8-again on a number of spellcasting rolls up to their Fate dots until they release a prepared spell. Fifth: ? Prerequisites: Time 5 [I was thinking Time 5 'Blink of an Eye' allowing for faster ritual casting, but that's not extremely useful once you already have Gnosis 8. Maybe move the 'Rewrite History' effect up here?] Optional: Prime 5 Nothing and no one short of a rival Master is worthy to stand against a Vancian. The mage can dismiss any Awakened spell they can perceive for the remainder of the scene, as if casting "Supernal Dispellation" with Potency 7. [Am I correctly understanding how spell factors relate to Attainments here? The book says "Like a spell, the Attainment automatically acquires primary spell factor ranks (in Potency or Duration) equal to the mage’s dots in the Attainment’s highest prerequisite Arcanum. When required, the Attainment is also considered to have acquired additional spell factors that would incur a penalty (if cast as a spell) equal to the Attainment’s lowest prerequisite Arcanum (rounded down)." Does that mean that you can add the additional spell factors onto the primary factor, as I do here to get Potency 5+2?] Kellsterik fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jul 25, 2016 |
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Jul 25, 2016 16:42
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Oh god why is there a mage cookbook coming.
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Jul 26, 2016 05:52
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I'm pretty sure I asked this question and got an answer before, but I'm still kinda confused. Do Mages just straight-up ignore Breaking Point rules and only ever use the Wisdom sin track? (If so, is there an in-universe justification for why the most "human" splat behaves so different, psychologically, than humans do?)
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Jul 26, 2016 06:15
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Loomer posted:Oh god why is there a mage cookbook coming. They made one for Apocalypse and I guess it sold, so why not? They should do one for Wraith. Kavak fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 06:18
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Kavak posted:They made one for Apocalypse and I guess it sold, so why not? "When guests arrive unexpectedly, this memory of the first warm day of summer satisfies with minimal preparation!"
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Jul 26, 2016 08:15
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Kavak posted:They made one for Apocalypse and I guess it sold, so why not? I have GOT to see what Albrecht's favorite meal is ("Beer. Lots of beer. No I'm not an alcoholic.") or what they had for either the Bone Gnawers and Red Talons.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:23
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blastron posted:I'm pretty sure I asked this question and got an answer before, but I'm still kinda confused. Do Mages just straight-up ignore Breaking Point rules and only ever use the Wisdom sin track? They do ignore Integrity Breaking Points as they no longer have that stat, yes. It's one of the big mechanical signs that mages are hugely psychologically different to sleepers. Integrity is largely a 'you see spooky stuff, you start taking sanity checks' system whereas mages not only don't take sanity checks, they actually gain arcane beats and Obsessions about that stuff. Chronicles is a world where humanity collectively looks away from the darkness and mages are instead sprinting towards it with magnifying glasses going 'awww yiss'. Mages are not normal people, psychologically. Mystery addiction, obsession, hubris, wisdom. These are people who think about the wisdom of just raising a zombie army to do their gardening instead of what the hell that glass thing with the tentacles was down at the lake.
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Jul 26, 2016 13:44
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Did Mortal Remains give Hunters Breaking Points?
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Jul 26, 2016 13:59
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Doodmons posted:They do ignore Integrity Breaking Points as they no longer have that stat, yes. It's one of the big mechanical signs that mages are hugely psychologically different to sleepers. Integrity is largely a 'you see spooky stuff, you start taking sanity checks' system whereas mages not only don't take sanity checks, they actually gain arcane beats and Obsessions about that stuff. Chronicles is a world where humanity collectively looks away from the darkness and mages are instead sprinting towards it with magnifying glasses going 'awww yiss'. Mages are not normal people, psychologically. Mystery addiction, obsession, hubris, wisdom. These are people who think about the wisdom of just raising a zombie army to do their gardening instead of what the hell that glass thing with the tentacles was down at the lake. Basically this. I'd also contend the point that mages are the 'most human' splat (obviously Hunters actually still are humans, but even aside from that). At a certain point in the progression track you're basically an extradimensional cosmic entity that reality hates and actively bucks against. In that regard it makes sense that their morality track is less so petty mortal concerns and more about minimizing your exposure and limiting your risk. It could be interesting to play a game following freshly awaken as they come to understand their new knowledge and are actively shedding their human integrities (and replacing it with hubris) as they come to accept their new conditions. I.E. 'I know you're a nice guy, but if you use your newfound powers to magic up unlimited bread to feed all the homeless, the Abyss is going to eat your soul like whoa and nobody will know or care about your contribution/powers anyway.'
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Jul 26, 2016 14:02
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citybeatnik posted:I have GOT to see what Albrecht's favorite meal is ("Beer. Lots of beer. No I'm not an alcoholic.") or what they had for either the Bone Gnawers and Red Talons. They didn't do Albrecht specifically. The favoured meals though are: 1. Stuffed bell peppers (rice, lamb, spices and herbs) for the Black Furies. 2. A ghanaian chicken and peanut curry for the Bone Gnawers, though they're also noted as having the american branch dig on jambalaya, chilli, chicken with dumplings, etc. Which I like - it's all simple, it's all cheap, it all scales up easy. It makes a great deal of sense for the tribe with the single biggest concern about keeping everyone in their communities, not just kin, from starving. 3. Children of Gaia have an irish sodabread and mushroom stew for some reason. 4. Fianna have a breton apple pie with calvados cream, because celts aren't just irish and it's legally required that all fianna content include alcohol. 5. Get have gravlax with a dill and mustard sauce. Pretty standard fare. Also, for some reason their art is a woman carving sigils into her own flesh with her claws? 6. Glass Walkers are all about that pasta. This makes them the best tribe by default. Their recipe is literally just how to make a basic egg pasta, with a tagliatelle thrown in as an afterthought. 7. Red Talons, surprisingly, have a few members who cook their food. Their recipe is a smoky baked chicken with peppers and onions. I think the mushroom stew would actually fit better here, leaving out the soda bread aspect. Olive oil, chilli peppers, and red onion aren't typically available in the middle of loving nowhere, but mushrooms are pretty much everywhere and stewing can be done with nothing more complex than hot rocks and an animal skin. 8. Shadow Lords have turkey and chorizo stew, because the iconic example of the shadow lord should be the iberian conquistadors rather than the Eastern European magyar+co Shadow Lords. 9. Striders have a serious hard-on for falafel. Especially egyptian falafel. As the recipe did not call for labneh, it is automatically less delicious than it could be. 10. Silver Fangs dig on lobster. Lobster linguine, apparently. Also, O'Tolleys Burgers. 11. For Stargazers its tuna in miso broth with shiitake mushrooms. A very Japanese combination for a not-especially-Japanese tribe. 12. Uktena love street food above all else. The recipe is for the Brazilian pastel. 13. Wendigo's recipe is venison and barley soup. 14. Boli Zhousizhe, the Asian GW offshoot, have prawn dim sum. 15. Hakken go for agedashi tofu. I'm guessing it's probably very Japanese in its specific implementation - I can't eat soy, so I have no experience in the matter. 16. No one knows what Siberakh eat, but why not make beef tartare? Also, make sure to use 'well-aged' beef, because the safest option when making beef tartare is meat that's been left to sit for weeks on end and then had the rot trimmed off. Now, not only does the dish have no relation to the actual Tatar people, but they don't come from anywhere even near the range of the Siberakh, so... All in all, A Bad Entry. In fairness, dry aged beef tartare is a thing, but generally you're going to want an expert to handle that. 17. Bunyip get... damper bread. Now, they make a point of how that reflects the failures of white people and colonialism, but really? You're going to give the Australian tribe white settler food? Really? I mean it isn't like there was, and is, a vibrant and thriving world of bush tucker, with ingredients that aren't actually that hard to get like, oh, kangaroo or emu meat! Nah, it would be too hard to suggest a kangaroo dish even though you can buy it in a goddamn supermarket in half the world, let's just throw lovely white people bush-bread on the fire and call it a day. gently caress you. Also? No one puts loving butter or milk in their bush damper. Getting a recipe off taste.com.au isn't all that traditional. For the non-aussies, damper is basically a quick flatbread you cook in the ashes of your campfire. It was what our swagmen, travellers, stockmen, etc used to eat, and because butter spoils pretty drat fast in a hot country, mostly it's just water, flour, and salt. So even in presenting 'the closest thing to a classic recipe' and the closest thing to indigenous bush bread (shocker: no butter there either traditionally since they didn't have any goddamn cattle!), it's actually just a taste.com.au recipe for damper for spoiled cunts. Have I said gently caress you enough yet? One more time, just in case. gently caress. You. 18. Croatan have bison heart. You may recall that the Croatan were primarily on the East coast, and while they had some penetration inland, the East Coast wasn't exactly bison country even at their height. So representative of their traditional but now lost cuisine? An animal available only in a small part of their overall territory, but which has such strong resonance with the image of 'native american cuisine' as a whole that hey, gently caress it, why not throw it in? Beef heart is pretty great though so I'm guessing bison heart is too. 19. White Howlers get venison with blackberry sauce. Which is... Pretty much fine, actually. It's a recipe inspired by, rather than a direct 'this is what they ate', so whatever (sub out the red wine vinegar for apple cider vinegar for a more representative option though). 20. BSDs get, as cooked by the SS 'author', an 'apocalypse cheesecake' full of popping candy and chilli powder. I'd do a fatal and friends, but it'd just be that only slightly longer. To be honest, the choice of bison heart is just bizarre. Maybe Stew Wilson can comment on it. Loomer fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 14:23
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I'd the mage cookbook isn't just a long list of ingredients and instructions for STs on how to adjudicate on the fly recipes I will be disappointed.
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Jul 26, 2016 15:23
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