|
Slugworth posted:would involve tearing up the slab? Just because that's how/where it was run doesn't mean you have to run it in the same place again. So this depends a lot on where it comes out the other side and what you can/are willing to do as far as re-running it above the slab. Best case, it's a home run to your washer that comes out somewhere above the slab and feeds nothing else, where it's easy to disconnect/cap off. And you have the space to make a new run from either there or somewhere else to your washer in the ceiling/along the walls.
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 22:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 12:33 |
|
|
PageMaster posted:Between that and another Reddit post complaining about his 5 PEX repairs in the last 10 years I'm definitely feeling pessimistic on this, now. Still keeping an eye on it but definitely hoping for a class action repipe payout like with PB back in the 90s if there really is a failure here. I never trust anything too much, so I have maintained visual access to every fitting except 1 in my house. If this turns out to be a serious concern I will definitely be doing routine inspections of everything more often to make sure there's no pinhole leaks and as soon as there are I guess I'll be redoing my piping again. With the current corporate friendly political environment in the US I seriously doubt even if a class action wins that you'll see anything more than a couple hundred bucks.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 23:01
|
|
|
I never liked expansion PEX. You're relying on the material's 'memory'/elasticity to hold the fitting. It always seemed like something that would be subject to loosening over decades or possibly be impacted by small deviations in the chemical makeup of the pipe. I'm sure it's gone through "rigorous testing under harsh conditions" and all that jazz, but we've heard that before.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2021 00:28
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Just because that's how/where it was run doesn't mean you have to run it in the same place again. So this depends a lot on where it comes out the other side and what you can/are willing to do as far as re-running it above the slab. Does it make sense that all the sinks and the water heater are stubbed out in copper though? Is it common to finish a poly or pex line with copper? I suspect that's why my inspector failed to notice this, it wasn't visible until I tore out drywall (well, he probably should have spotted it in the HVAC closet, but oh well).
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2021 00:38
|
|
|
Slugworth posted:
I can't say if it's common but our plumber and permitted repipe also terminated all the PEX runs into copper which elbowed out the wall so the PEX didn't have to. SpartanIvy posted:I never trust anything too much, so I have maintained visual access to every fitting except 1 in my house. If this turns out to be a serious concern I will definitely be doing routine inspections of everything more often to make sure there's no pinhole leaks and as soon as there are I guess I'll be redoing my piping again. I read the settlement for the brass fittings lawsuit and it paid out for repairs or a full epipe if you had three leaks so if anything does happen it looks like it would be contingent on you having leaks first rather than just preventative unfortunately... PageMaster fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Nov 15, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2021 01:02
|
|
|
So we're getting our house re-piped in Monday, and received a certified letter in the mail today notifying us that we're liable if our contractor doesn't pay for their building materials, and that they will place a lien on our house if we don't pay. Is this common practice? We're in Oregon if that makes any difference. frogbs fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Nov 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 20:11
|
|
|
frogbs posted:So we're getting our house re-piped in Monday, and received a certified letter in the mail today notifying us that we're liable if our contractor doesn't pay for their building materials, and that they will place a lien on our house if we don't pay. gently caress that. What's to stop the contractor from taking your money and not paying their bills? Never in a million years would I agree to that. E: example: https://www.levelset.com/payment-help/question/can-a-supplier-put-lien-on-my-property/
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 21:15
|
|
|
SpartanIvy posted:gently caress that. What's to stop the contractor from taking your money and not paying their bills? Never in a million years would I agree to that. Apparently notices like this are pretty common in Oregon for jobs over $2000: https://www.levelset.com/blog/oregon-notice-of-right-to-lien-and-information-notice-to-owner/ But, yes, I agree. How do you prove one party paid the other? I guess get something in writing from my contractor that they verify they paid their sub-contractor/supplier, and then get it in writing from the supplier that they were paid and will not put a lien on my house. The crazy part is that I haven't signed anything yet, and they don't start work until Monday. This is also a super well known local plumbing company with a good reputation, so I don't think it really has to do with them specifically?
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 21:18
|
|
|
frogbs posted:Apparently notices like this are pretty common in Oregon for jobs over $2000: https://www.levelset.com/blog/oregon-notice-of-right-to-lien-and-information-notice-to-owner/ What you want is a Lien Waiver if you're really worried about it. In the commercial world, we don't get paid until we (the contractor) send in our Lien Waivers. This is us saying that we agree you are paying us and will not lien your job for non-payment.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 22:15
|
|
|
Bird in a Blender posted:What you want is a Lien Waiver if you're really worried about it. In the commercial world, we don't get paid until we (the contractor) send in our Lien Waivers. This is us saying that we agree you are paying us and will not lien your job for non-payment. Thank you for the info! Does this exist in any other industry? If an auto mechanic doesn't pay their parts supplier for the new alternator on my car can it be repossessed? I have to say that as a homeowner, it's a pretty disconcerting letter to get. Isn't this why you go with a contractor who's licensed/bonded/etc, so you don't have to worry about this kind of thing? It seems like 'yes, get someone to do the work but do be aware that no matter what you do someone else might own your house' is a pretty big gotcha. The worst part was our mailman literally said to me 'Uh oh, looks like you've got a lien on your house!' and walked away. frogbs fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Nov 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 23:24
|
|
|
What's crazy is that it makes people not want to work with licensed contractors even more.. I found out (in CA anyway), if you work with an unlicensed contractor, if the job is over $500 they are entitled to absolutely nothing. They can't sue you, they can't put a lien on your place, they are just SOL. Of course that doesn't stop them from being upset and doing....other not so legal things to you and/or your property.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 00:48
|
|
|
I'm in sales in a construction related industry and it's really common for us to send a Notice to Owner letter when supplying materials for a large job as a way for us to extend more credit to the contractor while covering our asses. The contractors often like it too, because it's a little more security for them to get paid. The contractor should have no problem getting lien releases from the supplier for you so you can cover your rear end. On larger jobs that involve draws we would usually provide partial releases stating that we've been paid for all materials supplied through a certain date, and then a final release when the job is complete and we've been fully paid for all materials. Safest thing as the property owner is to withhold final payment until you have a final release in hand. What you really don't want is you pay the contractor, they stiff the supplier, and you end up having to settle up with the supplier directly to get a lien off the house. In reality for single family residential jobs, though, we would never actually follow through and file a lien on a homeowner. The legal costs and ill will would far outweigh the maybe couple grand we'd be out on the materials.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 01:45
|
|
|
Everything about this practice seem like a bad idea. If contractor is ordering supplies, then it's not the customer that should be receiving letters like these. I have line of credit or cash accounts with many suppliers, and it works just like you think it does. The responsibility of payment is on me alone. Why does this even exist?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 02:10
|
|
|
For my company at least the usual scenario is contractor has say a $5k credit limit with us, and for their usual job needs that suffices. Contractor comes to me and now they're starting a huge commercial remodel/construction/whatever job and will be buying $50k from me over the next two months, we need some extra security to extend that kind of credit which is where the NTO comes in. In that scenario the property owner is probably also getting NTOs from drywall suppliers, concrete suppliers, roofing, and whoever else is supplying materials and it's just normal business practice that everyone expects. I do find an NTO for materials on a residential repipe a bit unnecessary, but it's not necessarily a huge red flag imo.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 02:33
|
|
|
OP: if you're that worried about it, can you talk to the contractor and supplier and pay for the supplies directly?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 03:21
|
|
|
Sounds like you extending a line of credit to the contractor instead of collecting money on delivery or something? I understand that it's an extra piece of security for you, but worst case scenario, you would be attempting to collect from a whole different entity? Outside of a signed contract, giving you explicit rights to do so, how would this not get laughed out of court? wesleywillis posted:OP: if you're that worried about it, can you talk to the contractor and supplier and pay for the supplies directly? The contractor should be paying for those supplies, full stop. It's pretty normal to ask for a deposit to cover cost of the supplies. But we're talkin about small residential jobs. Edit: I can see how this lien notice would be wonderful if you were to do major work on, let's say, the next Trump casino. Because the customer is notorious for not paying contractors and suppliers Nitrox fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Nov 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 03:44
|
|
|
They don't use corporate credit cards? My neighbor runs crews on home flips/rebuilds. His employer has a line of credit at all of the local suppliers; he also has a corporate card for up to $50K in a pinch.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 04:34
|
|
|
wesleywillis posted:OP: if you're that worried about it, can you talk to the contractor and supplier and pay for the supplies directly? I'm calling the plumbing company we're using tomorrow to find out if this is normal for them and they know that their contractors are sending these letters. If sounds like this is pretty common in Oregon, but we haven't signed anything or paid for anything yet, it weirds me out that any of their suppliers have, or even need, our name. This is a pretty small job in my estimation, it's like a 1200sf house!
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 07:52
|
|
|
frogbs posted:I'm calling the plumbing company we're using tomorrow to find out if this is normal for them and they know that their contractors are sending these letters. If sounds like this is pretty common in Oregon, but we haven't signed anything or paid for anything yet, it weirds me out that any of their suppliers have, or even need, our name. This is a pretty small job in my estimation, it's like a 1200sf house! Is there a written estimate?
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 08:03
|
|
|
Nitrox posted:Are you supposed to be paying for materials and supply separately? Or are you just paying the contractor lump-sum that includes all expenses Just paying the plumber directly, and I have a written, itemized estimate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 08:07
|
|
|
Paying the supply house directly is definitely the way to go. I'd get an estimate of supply costs from the plumber and tell the supply house to charge you directly, as well as setup some kind of maximum charge limit so the plumber can't low-ball to appease you then go way over budget on your dime without you knowing. It will be fun for the plumber have to tell you how much of the cost is just parts and how much is labor instead of being able to jumble them together to make it seem like they're not making money on labor hand over fist. E: to be clear plumbers and other tradespeople should be able to make good money at their job but I hate that my itemized bills always have supplies marked up 100% in addition to their labor charge to try and make it seem like it's a better deal to people who otherwise would see it and be like "I PAID YOU $$$$ TO INSTALL A $ PART?!?!" SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Nov 19, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 17:32
|
|
|
So, probably exposing myself to some ridicule here, but I need help. I'm not a plumber, but I'm in a bit of a bind and I thought some goons might enjoy the misery or have some advice, so here it goes. We moved into this house a month ago, and prior to moving in, we had a hydrostatic test done. It passed. This is our first house so I'm new to this poo poo. A month later, a toilet backs up and we call a plumber. He charges us $2000 to install a cleanout pipe and perform his own hydrostatic test. This fails. He scopes the pipes with a camera and finds large tears in the iron pipes. He says there is no way we could have done this in one month, and he suspects the original hydrostatic test (which we showed him the report for) was either not performed or not performed correctly. Here is where things start to get fucky. He provides us a quote to trench under the house, rip out the mainline (I am not a plumber so pardon my terminology), and replace it. $25,000. At this time I am not home, so my wife tells him to go ahead and do it. Trenching begins immediately, and lasts two days. We now have a giant pile of dirt in our yard, and a tunnel under our house. They finished digging today. He provides us with an adjusted quote: $45,000. He says that there is some weird piping that made them have to trench at a weird angle, and there are more leaks under the master bathroom, as the previous owners did a DIY hack job to install a bunch of fixtures, and he thinks they all need to be refitted. He also installed another cleanout pipe. I must have mean mugged him really hard because he lowered it from $45,000 to $38,000 after I looked at him hard enough. So this brings me to my current loving situation. Their crew is arriving in nine hours to finish the job, and I have no idea if this guy is rolling me or not. That's a lot of money, and I have no idea if those prices are egregious or in the realm of possibility. It needs to be done, so if it's reasonable I will pay it. I have a tunnel under my house, and I'd feel a lot more comfortable with a second opinion. But even if I hired a plumber to give me another quote, this guy would charge me a billion dollars because he dug a hole. So I'm a little overwhelmed, he moved forward with this so fast we didn't have time to get more opinions, and we have no idea where to go with this. I could use some advice. Here is my current thinking:
We will have to pay for extra quotes, and we will probably eat some cost for the delay if the original was fine, but at least I will know this price is reasonable. I'm basically handing this guy a luxury car to spend two days digging a hole and fitting some pipes. Online I'm seeing the average cost to replace a mainline is like $2000-$4000.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2021 06:29
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHGeDg6XX6U Get a few more quotes. Not one more, like 2-3 more. Get their info, find out what they say, post back and take your time before you drop all this money. I've owned two different places and I think including some remodeling work (3 full baths, stucco siding, exterior sheathing/plywood, 12 windows, 2 doors), all my trips to Home Depot, and fixing two roof leaks, I've spent 50k in total over ten years. You're almost about to drop that much in a month of home ownership.. I hope the guy is licensed. I hope he didn't gently caress anything up while digging the trench. I hope he presented you with a contract you can get out of (if he didn't make you sign a contract for a project this large, he's likely not legit). No idea if you can claim home warranty, I've heard bad things about those warranties to begin with, but imagine if they came to your house to take a look and you have trenches dug all around your backyard...it's not a good look. Same with trying to go after the original homeowner. For all they know everything worked fine. You presumably got the house inspected before you bought the place, right? Did they say anything about the plumbing? I imagine it's possible the plumber made the test fail to try and sell you work too, so don't count that out. Get feedback from other folks before spending another dollar. And talk to the missus about when to authorize work. My wife and I have an understanding that if we ever have to sign some contract that locks us into some kind of subscription, spend >$200, or just aren't sure, we talk to each other first.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2021 07:35
|
|
|
Oof good luck. If nothing else I'd just be suspect of any contractor who can start a job like that so fast right now. Interested to hear how that shakes out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2021 13:40
|
|
|
Yeah, so they did not respond to our text, and the work crew is supposed to be here in just over an hour. So I called them just now to delay the job by a week or so. The guy said something to the effect of "it's a ball rolling downhill at this point, the work is scheduled, we can't delay it" and "let's finish the work, and then we'll figure out where the additional $15,000 came from afterward". I said, "No, you practically doubled the price last night at 9 PM and we need time to think about it. You need to unschedule the work, because you do not have permission to be on my property today." He said alright, but something tells me this is going to be a giant pain in the rear end. My wife signed something for both estimates, but it wasn't a contract so much as some wall of text on a tablet that he briefly handed her. Definitely didn't have any time to review it. Arsonide fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Nov 20, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2021 13:43
|
|
|
Do you have a copy of what you signed? I’d start reading that in detail immediately. My gut here is that this guy is taking you for a ride. Even the $2k for the clean out seems like too much, but maybe it was more difficult than what I’m picturing. The guy dropping $7k off his price just off a mean look means he was really ready to scam you. Definitely get a couple other numbers. Even if you’re stuck with this guy, you could probably still negotiate. And stop signing things without reading them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2021 15:23
|
|
|
Yeah that sounds like a scam. Did you watch either of the hydrostatic tests being performed? Never take a contractors word for anything ever. At this point you're probably hosed one way or another because youve already got a hole under your house and your pipes torn apart. You're going to have to pay him for at least some work and even if you fire him now, it will be difficult and expensive to find someone else to take over the job. And for gods sakes sit your wife down and have a talk about communicating before signing for major expenses. SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Nov 20, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2021 15:40
|
|
|
You're getting hosed, you need a lawyer and you need to have a discussion with your wife about both getting scammed by scare tactics and having discussions and both coming to agreement before spending more than X amount, with X being a lot loving lower than $25,000. Nobody, NOBODY legit can start that kind of work immediately. You're just this person's latest mark. Look up the company. I'm sure you'll find you're far from their first. Also, call the municipality. I bet they know them. And i bet the didn't get permits for any of this.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2021 17:41
|
|
|
I just want to add on that a hydrostatic test is done to check for leaks, it’s not going to tell you if your sewer is blocked. If your contractor needed to install a clean out to perform their test, then the first one wasn’t done properly. You need the clean outs to install plugs in order to do the hydro test. So someone lied to you, either they didn’t do a test the first time, or the second guy lied about needing a CO.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2021 20:00
|
|
|
Is there anything i can really mess up flushing my water heater or is it pretty idiot-proof? I posted a while back about my new water heater making loud popping noises and only feedback I've gotten from talking locally before jumping to home or Rheem warranty is sediment build up in the tank; i'm doubtful since it was new in Apr and I thought build up problems are on the scale of years, but assuming it's not hard to do and I can't screw it up I don't have much to lose. Gas water heater, so what I've been able to summarize is shut off cold water supply, set system to 'pilot,' attach hose to drain, open hot water faucet somewhere in house, then quarter turn valve until it starts draining, right? Once done just close valve, turn on cold water supply, then set water temp, and run hot water to get air out of the lines?
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2021 22:37
|
|
|
PageMaster posted:Is there anything i can really mess up flushing my water heater or is it pretty idiot-proof? I posted a while back about my new water heater making loud popping noises and only feedback I've gotten from talking locally before jumping to home or Rheem warranty is sediment build up in the tank; i'm doubtful since it was new in Apr and I thought build up problems are on the scale of years, but assuming it's not hard to do and I can't screw it up I don't have much to lose. Gas water heater, so what I've been able to summarize is shut off cold water supply, set system to 'pilot,' attach hose to drain, open hot water faucet somewhere in house, then quarter turn valve until it starts draining, right? Once done just close valve, turn on cold water supply, then set water temp, and run hot water to get air out of the lines? Nope - only concern would be if you've got a lovely plastic drain valve, but if it was installed in April it's probably still in good condition. You may want to turn the cold water on and off a few times while it's draining to dislodge anything stuck to the bottom.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 03:39
|
|
|
Arsonide posted:He said alright, but something tells me this is going to be a giant pain in the rear end. My wife signed something for both estimates, but it wasn't a contract so much as some wall of text on a tablet that he briefly handed her. Definitely didn't have any time to review it. melon cat fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jan 10, 2024 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 04:56
|
|
|
melon cat posted:I hate that tablets have become the latest obsession in the professional trades. Because while it's nice to be able to pull up photos and videos scam artists now have a way to get people to sign the dotted line without getting a chance to sit down at the dinner table with their spouse to mull things over. There is a little-known FTC rule called the 'cool off period': https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/buyers-remorse-ftcs-cooling-rule-may-help Unfortunately, it sounds like the scammer here knows all about it if he started the work immediately. Once half your yard is dug up, it's hard to claim you needed more time to think about it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 14:43
|
|
|
Oooof I'm really sorry you are being taken for a ride. $25,000 is an astounding amount of money. re: contractors mechanics liens. It's normal in California in that it's how the law is written. You personally owe the all licensed sub-contractors if the GC doesn't pay them, but the only way for them to enforce it is to jump through some paperwork hoops in advance. It's fine for commercial jobs, but a residential person should never need to worry about this crap. Tell your GC that you require lien waivers from all subs, or at least all subs over $1000 or whatever amount you wouldn't be comfortable being out of pocket on double the money until it's resolved. Then tell this sub to show up with a lien waiver in hand prior to them starting work. No one so much as parks their truck in your driveway without a signed lien waiver.
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2021 16:10
|
|
|
TLDR: I am at least not being overtly scammed. I was able to get some second opinions and they said the deal I'm getting is a little bit more than they would charge, but not much more. The house was simply that hosed up. The people I talked to also gave me some advice on where to get some assistance with it. It is still a lovely situation but at least now I know the work had to be done either way, and it was done in (relatively) good faith.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 03:58
|
|
|
I just replaced my bidet attachment with an integrated toilet seat / bidet. The old one had supply line connections in the back, which was fine and dandy. The new one has them on the side, and it came with one stainless braided supply line with a 90 degree elbow at the end, and one.... rubber tubing monstrosity that I don't care to use. For now, out of simplicitly, I just connected the two lines that I already had running to the old bidet, but they stick out way hard to the side now. I would love to get a second of these supply hoses with a 90 degree elbow at the end, but I cannot for the life of me find one to purchase. Does this product exist? I have one, so surely someone somewhere sells it
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 04:22
|
|
|
Is it something like this? https://bidetking.com/products/bidet-seat-supply-hose-w-chrome-90-degree-elbow
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 05:28
|
|
|
Bank posted:Is it something like this? That is indeed the thing I'm looking for! But it'd be cool to get one in stainless and not for $25 e: also I'd need like a 36" line to run to my hot water
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 05:55
|
|
|
quote:I must have mean mugged him really hard because he lowered it from $45,000 to $38,000 after I looked at him hard enough. I've never met a reputable trades professional who was willing to haggle down in price by -$7000. Especially now with companies being booked months out. melon cat fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jan 10, 2024 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 06:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 12:33 |
|
|
You know, I took a bus here, so I have to buy a car! Sorry to hear about your plight, op. The "start major demo before buyers remorse sets in" is a legit scam tactic. The news reports on shady contractors will usually start with dramatic shots of a WW1-style trench in someone's yard. Someone asked a very important question about permits. Did you look into that? Nitrox fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Nov 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2021 14:16
|
|