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Hughlander posted:I don’t think that’s fully the case. A true generalist / polyglot is going to have a higher pay. Or are “full stack” coders paid less than java specialists? For a Java “specialist” I’m not talking about a typical H1B throwaway enterprise plumber coder - I’m talking about guys that are writing books, part of the JSRB, etc. After seeing the “full stack” jobs across the US and seeing the different stages and make-up of companies I’m mostly convinced that the role is an excuse for companies to pay for one developer rather than two and overload them with work. Because with other engineer distributions you’re likely in “can hire readily and we’re beating people off with a stick” territory and you can find plenty of talent.
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May 24, 2018 17:56
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necrobobsledder posted:After seeing the “full stack” jobs across the US and seeing the different stages and make-up of companies I’m mostly convinced that the role is an excuse for companies to pay for one developer rather than two and overload them with work. At minimum, it's "we don't actually know what the term means, but Tableau is in our stack! Your career is making Tableau reports now. But it's cool that you know how to write applications! That makes you very qualified to make Tableau reports." That same client also conflated "Data Lake" to mean, "all of our RDBMSs, especially the obscure ones. What's Hadoop?" "DevOps" became "factories are our Ops, and building reports is what Devs do. Dev for Ops.. Dev...Ops...DEVOPS! THAT WORD IS IN THE NEWS! We're innovative!"
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May 24, 2018 18:37
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Who called the fun police? Arguing about the merits of things is fun, can be useful, and is a time honored tradition of nerds. It gets old after a few decades, don't you think?
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May 25, 2018 02:24
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Paolomania posted:It gets old after a few decades, don't you think? Technology changes too fast for he answers to stay the same but repeats too often for old wisdom to consistently lack relevance.
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May 25, 2018 05:49
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Rust is cool, give Rust a try
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May 25, 2018 13:49
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Only for people who don’t find new technology fun. I meant the arguing, not the tech. Discovering new tech is fun and good. Zealous arguments are just tiresome.
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May 25, 2018 14:41
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Paolomania posted:I meant the arguing, not the tech. Discovering new tech is fun and good. Zealous arguments are just tiresome. Depends on the context. Zealous arguments about the best platform, language, os, definitely tiresome. Zealous arguments about ethical data collection, how rigorously self driving cars should be tested and regulated, the implications of AI that sounds human, and spaces vs tabs: frequently interesting and definitely conversations we need to have as an industry and society. Tabs.
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May 25, 2018 15:50
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spaces
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May 25, 2018 17:04
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Autoindent
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May 25, 2018 17:18
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zwnj
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May 25, 2018 17:24
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Just lol if you don't make every file dual-compile in your C-syntax-family language of choice and Whitespace with ci-enforced functional isomorphism
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May 25, 2018 17:30
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Munkeymon posted:Just lol if you don't make every file dual-compile in your C-syntax-family language of choice and Whitespace with ci-enforced functional isomorphism My programs are just lists of GitHub URLs, corresponding to files/revisions of open-source projects into which I've steganographically encoded the program logic. The compiler is baked into wget, Ken Thompson-style.
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May 25, 2018 18:58
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:My programs are just lists of GitHub URLs, corresponding to files/revisions of open-source projects
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May 25, 2018 19:00
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:My programs are just lists of GitHub URLs, corresponding to files/revisions of open-source projects into which I've steganographically encoded the program logic. The compiler is baked into wget, Ken Thompson-style. T7-9 thinking right there. Edit: Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:stop using node.js mrmcd fucked around with this message at 19:06 on May 25, 2018 |
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May 25, 2018 19:03
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I don't write programs I find programs that have already been written and write design docs for them to take the credit
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May 25, 2018 20:00
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Jose Valasquez posted:I don't write programs I find programs that have already been written and write design docs for them to take the credit What's you preferred line spacing? Margins? I mean, there's gotta be something to argue pointlessly over here.
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May 25, 2018 20:06
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Jose Valasquez posted:I don't write programs I find programs that have already been written and write design docs for them to take the credit Hey everyone, this guy writes docs!
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May 25, 2018 20:07
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:stop using node.js God dammit.
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May 25, 2018 20:08
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Munkeymon posted:What's you preferred line spacing? Margins? I mean, there's gotta be something to argue pointlessly over here. Two spaces after a period
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May 25, 2018 20:09
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Pollyanna posted:I hope doing rails for most of my career didn’t pidgeonhole me into the latter. Depends entirely on who you’ve been doing them with
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May 25, 2018 20:15
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Munkeymon posted:What's you preferred line spacing? Margins? I mean, there's gotta be something to argue pointlessly over here. Whether or not "SAP" starts with a vowel sound.
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May 25, 2018 20:15
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It's gif, you monsters, not jif e: part of me can't wait until academic linguists describe this as the gif-jif merger fantastic in plastic fucked around with this message at 00:30 on May 26, 2018 |
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May 26, 2018 00:27
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Looking forward to a world where both giraffe and girl are pronounced with the same gi phonetic.
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May 26, 2018 01:44
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:stop using go Ftfy
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May 26, 2018 02:06
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Jose Valasquez posted:Two spaces after a period 
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May 26, 2018 07:18
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I know titles don't matter but I'm not really a Senior level engineer, though that's what I'm getting contacted for on job boards etc. Should I just... talk to the people at companies I'm interested in anyway?
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May 29, 2018 15:36
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Yes because nobody can agree on what senior means anyways
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May 29, 2018 15:42
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I've worked with "senior" level engineers who would have fumbled through fizzbuzz. Let the company eliminate you from consideration if they don't think you're qualified, don't do it for them.
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May 29, 2018 15:47
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Okay, also lmao are you serious Jose? I really just... cannot believe people like that exist. It's baffling for me to accept that.
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May 29, 2018 15:49
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Okay, also lmao are you serious Jose? I really just... cannot believe people like that exist. It's baffling for me to accept that. I've been a professional developer for 13 years and the only time I use a modulo operator is.. when someone asks me to do fizzbuzz in an interview. So yeah depending on the type of code they work with day to day I can easily see someone forgetting the finer details after a few years. The line I'd draw is on what we call "fumbling", like if they don't know how to do fizzbuzz right off the top of their head then maybe that's something they should add to their interview prep but it's not the end of the world, whereas someone who can't figure out how to do it with the language docs available is in a different kettle of crabs.
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May 29, 2018 16:09
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Jaded Burnout posted:I've been a professional developer for 13 years and the only time I use a modulo operator is.. when someone asks me to do fizzbuzz in an interview. I've seen people fail FizzBuzz at the "looping from 1 to 100" part. Not even in an "off by one" error kind of way, just utterly being unable to decompose the problem into a sane algorithm of any variety.
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May 29, 2018 16:18
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:I've seen people fail FizzBuzz at the "looping from 1 to 100" part. Not even in an "off by one" error kind of way, just utterly being unable to decompose the problem into a sane algorithm of any variety. This is terrifying. Jaded Burnout posted:I've been a professional developer for 13 years and the only time I use a modulo operator is.. when someone asks me to do fizzbuzz in an interview. Being able to deduce that I can trivially solve it in Java by chopping off the remainder and checking the original number and difference versus newly remainderless value against 0 was probably something I would have struggled with in my early career but now? Yikes. I cannot imagine not being able to jump to that conclusion after a few years of any sort of "numerical" work.
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May 29, 2018 16:21
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Well that's the thing, as you become more senior you move away from that sort of work and into higher level architecture, team leadership, what have you. It's like how a 15 year old might have a better grasp on basic biology than a 40 year old, because they're closer to when they last used it. I'm not saying that all jobs are like this and I'm sure there's plenty of senior roles where they are still in the deep of it and should be able to rattle off a solution in seconds, but one of the reasons nobody can decide what senior means is because the role opens up so much more as you spend more time in it.
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May 29, 2018 16:29
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That's fair! In other news I went live on Underdog and AngelList and have gotten over 10 emails since 9am. Hope everyone is prepared for my barrage of Mid-Level Maybe Senior Who The gently caress Knows Interview Trip Reports in the impending weeks. Also talking to the company that gave me an offer last time after I interviewed with three teams there. The team I got an offer from was my 3rd choice so I declined it, but looking back that was a mistake. They're big enough to have no problem giving me a raise if we find a team fit and also big enough that there are tons of openings for various skill levels so I'm fairly hopeful.
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May 29, 2018 16:31
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Jaded Burnout posted:Well that's the thing, as you become more senior you move away from that sort of work and into higher level architecture, team leadership, what have you. It's like how a 15 year old might have a better grasp on basic biology than a 40 year old, because they're closer to when they last used it. Which is the huge problem with CompSci-fundamentals-based interviews like those famously found at Google. A fresh college grad is far more likely to be able to regurgitate an algorithm for reversing the nodes in a linked list, because it was on their final for CS435:Algorithms two semesters ago than the 15-year programmer who isn't stupid enough to implement his own solution when myCollection.Reverse() works way better. That said, I'd still be extremely suspicious of any 'senior' level developer that wasn't able to implement an algorithm of Fizz-Buzz level difficulty. I would have to be pretty drat nervous to not be able to whiteboard my way through a for loop and a few if statements, though, I too have seen it with my own two eyes.
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May 29, 2018 16:42
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We interviewed a guy with 20+ years of experience once who not only could not provide any implementation of Fib(n) but refused to believe that the recursive one we gave him would work. Like it was some crazy black magic poo poo. (“Implement Fib(n)” is supposed to be a five-minute prelude to discussions about performance and design tradeoffs, not an actual technical stumper  )
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May 29, 2018 16:48
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When asking people to implement "Fib(n), no performance requirements", then following up with "Fib(n), linear time", I sometimes compliment candidates for writing implementations that look very much like the mathematical definition of Fib(n) that we give them-- IMO, when your math code looks like the math it's implementing, that's a good thing for correctness and clarity. This seems to throw a lot of candidates off, as does any offer of assistance. 
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May 29, 2018 16:58
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Jaded Burnout posted:Well that's the thing, as you become more senior you move away from that sort of work and into higher level architecture, team leadership, what have you. This wasn't that unfortunately.
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May 29, 2018 17:22
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We had an interviewee for a senior role who seemed as lost as that. Their primary experience was 15 odd years writing a proprietary desktop GUI language which last had a new version in the early 2000s. I still wonder what they ended up doing.
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May 29, 2018 17:32
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Good Will Hrunting posted:I know titles don't matter but I'm not really a Senior level engineer, though that's what I'm getting contacted for on job boards etc. Should I just... talk to the people at companies I'm interested in anyway?
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May 29, 2018 18:54
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