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Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Would increasing salary improve the pool of applicants

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Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Hadlock posted:

Would increasing salary improve the pool of applicants

The whole point of the 1500 hour rule was to restrict the pool of applicants in order to increase salary, it wasn't about safety.

Salami Surgeon
Jan 21, 2001

Don't close. Don't close.


Nap Ghost

Phanatic posted:

turning flight schools into a treadmill

No wonder those Colgan guys couldn't take off

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

as someone who has basically no clue about this stuff other than riding around in a lot of airplanes, what is the solution?

Chat GPT flies the plane.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

as someone who has basically no clue about this stuff other than riding around in a lot of airplanes, what is the solution?

I have some thoughts on this.

Well, solution number one is to start with the instructors at all levels. The Canadian system I work under, which is basically a model shared by much/most of the Commonwealth, has a different division of instructor privileges than the US has. The US has CFI (basic instructor), CFII (instrument instructor), and MEI (multi-engine instructor) each issued on the basis of a fairly grueling flight test and with the immediate privileges to train someone to those qualifications themselves, based on what I know of the system. On the other hand, our system doesn't divide "what you can instruct" for the most part, but rather the level of supervision that you require. You start as a class 4 instructor, which means you need the direct supervision of a class 2 or 1 instructor and you cannot conduct freelance instruction. After you have experience, you can upgrade to class 3, meaning you no longer require supervision. After more experience and a harder flight test, you can upgrade to class 2, which means you can act as a chief instructor of a flight training unit and provide supervision to a class 4 instructor. Then after another, harder flight test you can upgrade to class 1, meaning you can teach new instructors. This, ultimately, is done with the intent of ensuring a higher quality of instruction across the board, and trying to avoid the blind leading the blind -- essentially, a structure based on apprenticeship, rather than gating the qualification behind a particularly brutal flight test.

The second thing, which we don't mandate here, but would very much improve training, is to focus more on CPL and multi-crew skills from day one with commercial-track students. Flight management, crew resource management, threat and error management, and decision-making are not prioritized enough at lower levels. Scenario-based training, in particular, needs to somehow be mandated, on the basis that it's a massive pain in the rear end for flight schools to accommodate in a practical sense, and they won't do it unless forced to do so. I want to have whole-day bookings with my CPL candidates and force them to confront actual, practical problems in real-world situations, but I can't do it because the entire model of flight training is based on a bunch of short bookings with different students every day.

The third thing is to immediately scrap the 1500-hour requirement. It's absolutely counter-productive, because it encourages new CPLs to take a challenging job that they hate (instructing), to build hours. A flight instructor who hates instructing, or is simply not suited to it, is not going to be an effective instructor. I've got about 1800 hours instructing, I love my job and I think it's very rewarding, but it ain't for everyone. Building on that in a slightly self-serving way: flight instructors need to be better compensated to keep experienced, passionate instructors around. This is my second career, and honestly my personal financial situation is fine largely due to luck as much as anything, but if it were otherwise, I'd be out the loving door. I'm working above full time hours to have a shot at $60k+ per year, and I'm at the top of the instructor payscale at my school (basically a 100% raise from where I was last year as a class 3). No flight benefits, no time to use flight benefits if I had them.

Related to the last point: airlines need to be more flexible and work with flight schools to allow pilots to make the jump to airline transport operations while not giving up on ab initio flight instruction, so that the wealth of operational knowledge you gain working for the airlines can flow backward to the flight schools in some way other than a few old guys who aged out of the airlines coming back and working part-time. Those part-timers are a very valuable resource already, but it's not enough.

If you manage these things, you will turn out pilots at 300-500 hours who are absolutely ready to be second-in-command for commercial operations, and will learn enough to be effective captains some day. You will also, in all likelihood, have more captains who have the instructional skill to effectively mentor lower-time F/Os.

Fender Anarchist
May 20, 2009

Fender Anarchist

just use the autopilot, dummies

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013

The whole idea of having freshly minted CPL's teach others is so dumb. "Hey, I can just barely operate this thing. Let me teach you what I know".
The Canadian system does have some safeguards, with it's class system, but it's still not ideal.

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

ImplicitAssembler posted:

The whole idea of having freshly minted CPL's teach others is so dumb. "Hey, I can just barely operate this thing. Let me teach you what I know".
The Canadian system does have some safeguards, with it's class system, but it's still not ideal.

What's ideal?

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

ImplicitAssembler posted:

The whole idea of having freshly minted CPL's teach others is so dumb. "Hey, I can just barely operate this thing. Let me teach you what I know".
The Canadian system does have some safeguards, with it's class system, but it's still not ideal.

Out of anyone, they are more likely to know all that stuff because they just went through it compared to someone who's been flying the same route for 20 years.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Phanatic posted:

What's ideal?

Every new pilot is instructed only by full time master instructors with at least 1000 hours of instruction logged.

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013

The ideal is most definitely to have instructors who have had real working experience.
A 200 hour CFI knows gently caress all.
For helicopter instructors here, they need at min 200PIC for a class 4 and all of the instructors of the school I went to , had 4000hr+ of real working experience with logging, firefighting, etc.
It's only know that I'm reaching 500hrs that I'm feeling moderately competent and would even consider letting anyone else near the controls.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe

Safety Dance posted:

That kinda sounds like someone who isn't a good public speaker or happy being in the limelight who was suddenly thrust into the limelight one brisk January afternoon in 2009.

Ok but it's been 15 years and they said he was an rear end too. I mean yeah good on him for getting his I guess but like... This isn't a news conference where he's caught off guard. It's a service he's charging tens of thousands for and leaving everyone go "that sucked."

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

BonoMan posted:

Ok but it's been 15 years and they said he was an rear end too. I mean yeah good on him for getting his I guess but like... This isn't a news conference where he's caught off guard. It's a service he's charging tens of thousands for and leaving everyone go "that sucked."

And yet people keep paying for it.

Would you do anything different?

Warbird
May 23, 2012

America's Favorite Dumbass

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

as someone who has basically no clue about this stuff other than riding around in a lot of airplanes, what is the solution?

Generally “avoid goose, ground, and buildings” and go with god.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe

hobbesmaster posted:

And yet people keep paying for it.

Would you do anything different?

I don't care either way but I thought it might provide some contextual insight into people's opinion of him since that was the discussion.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSjZEWTqn3k

madeintaipei
Jul 13, 2012

Elviscat posted:

A lot of big college and government campuses are similar, they'll operate a little steam plant and use the waste heat for campus heating.

I worked at the construction site of what was to be a very, very large highschool. The project was so big that they had their own concrete plant, powered by a gas turbine powerplant. The plan was to run the concrete plant to build out the school, do contract work as it neared completion, and leave the powerplant for emergency power generation for the school and surrounding area afterwards.

A win-win for everybody. The construction contractor gets money from the state, the state gets to give the county a powerplant, the school gets guaranteed power, and the school becomes an emergency shelter for the surrounding area during hurricanes and/or floods.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008


The context on this I got from twitter is that this plane had just arrived from Mexico and things were normal until the switch to ground power. That means the “ding” and the seatbelt sign would’ve gone off telling FAs to disarm the doors and that everyone could get up and start getting their carryons down. Some passengers had already started deplaned normally via the jet bridge.

Cactus Ghost
Dec 20, 2003

you can actually inflate your scrote pretty safely with sterile saline, syringes, needles, and aseptic technique. its a niche kink iirc

the saline just slowly gets absorbed into your blood but in the meantime you got a big round smooth distended nutsack

hobbesmaster posted:

Would you do anything different?

ya i would not be an rear end in a top hat to strangers

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Phanatic posted:

What's ideal?

Ideal would be a system that allows low-time pilots to build experience, and experienced pilots to instruct while not actively loving their own rear end in a top hat with a cactus for potential earnings.

I love my job as an experienced instructor, but there are some major problems: I get paid like poo poo and I could make more money doing anything else at this point; secondly, I, like most other instructors, have no experience in commercial operations because it's very much an either/or situation until you age out.

Secondary problem: as you gain experience as an instructor -- when you get really good at what you do -- you tend to collect the hard cases, because who else can do it? So your job gets increasingly more difficult and miserable for the same pay.

Personal whinge time: my more recently-qualified coworker asked to take over a student we were sharing. Good guy, a real pleasure to fly with; I gave it to him, I didn't really care. I've been rewarded with the same instructor giving me a real hard case because his "schedule wasn't working out" and I've taken over another hard case because the student and instructor had personal differences (namely, that the student needed actual guidance from an experienced instructor; I've got him near ready for a flight test, and while it was a pain in my assholes, it wasn't impossible). We have money from the government to train instructors who aren't already ME/IFR qualified, and I get none of them. I've got Halitosis McGee, whose breath could knock a buzzard off a shitwagon and hasn't flown in two fuckin years, because I can handle him, meanwhile my co-workers get the easy jobs.

I don't know where I was going with this but if I wander off to a 705, no one should be surprised.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Why do you have assholes, plural?

How do you hold a medical?

Grumio
Sep 20, 2001

in culina est

MrYenko posted:

Why do you have assholes, plural?

How do you hold a medical?

I think it was the aforementioned cactus

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cv2x2rxdlvdo

So Boeing broke an agreement the DOJ made with them about the 737 crashes, so now they may get sued for them

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
Boeing is saddened to hear about the death of everyone at 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, of natural causes.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

Phanatic posted:

The whole point of the 1500 hour rule was to restrict the pool of applicants in order to increase salary, it wasn't about safety.

Some boomers are content merely to pull a ladder up behind them, mainline legacy pilots take the ladder to FL410 and jettison the door it was attached to

The Real Amethyst
Apr 20, 2018

When no one was looking, Serval took forty Japari buns. She took 40 buns. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.

I love these videos because I get to see how quick the airport fire service responds.

PainterofCrap
Oct 17, 2002

hey bebe



narrator: only a sundial was required

Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.


I like the first few people out who went strolling off spanwise toward the winglet, 2 minutes or so into the video.

Which raises the question: should the markings out there on the wing be clearer as to where you're supposed to go? In this case it's easy to laugh at them loving it up since no harm was done, but if it isn't clear where to go after stepping out the door, that's a problem.

Theris
Oct 9, 2007

It's a white path painted on the wing bordered by arrows. I'm not sure what more you could do. Maybe have the arrows be lights that light in sequence towards the slide?

Dunno-Lars
Apr 7, 2011
:norway:

:iiam:



Or somehow inform people before take-off on how to exit the plane. Maybe they could have pamphlets in the seat pockets?

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

Dunno-Lars posted:

Or somehow inform people before take-off on how to exit the plane. Maybe they could have pamphlets in the seat pockets?

Maybe some kind of safety brief?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
People don’t read so maybe we could have them watch a video instead?

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
You could do little inflatable railings like the A380.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

People don’t read so maybe we could have them watch a video instead?

If we do that, make sure to require that that safety videos require that they actually show an aircraft and evacuation instead of increasingly abstract ads for the airline that barely fulfill the regulatory requirements for a video.

`Nemesis
Dec 30, 2000

railroad graffiti

hobbesmaster posted:

If we do that, make sure to require that that safety videos require that they actually show an aircraft and evacuation instead of increasingly abstract ads for the airline that barely fulfill the regulatory requirements for a video.

the delta one now seems to be a bunch of people hanging out in a tikki hut surrounded by palm trees, next to a beach. i don't think an airplane was ever displayed.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


`Nemesis posted:

the delta one now seems to be a bunch of people hanging out in a tikki hut surrounded by palm trees, next to a beach. i don't think an airplane was ever displayed.

I noticed that on my trip to Hawaii in March. I was honestly taken aback. I also saw one that appeared to be in some giant auditorium with plane seats substituted for theater seats.

Really, the FAA should regulate a single safety video per type aircraft in service on US carriers and just have that shown in a no-nonsense manner. By doing this branding crap with abstract imagery, you are engaging the parts of people's brains that turn off advertising and zone out.

My flight is not part of my loving vacation. It's transportation and is barely tolerated for as how annoying every part of the process is. Stop trying to establish yourself as anything other than a mass transit service who's goal should be to get me there quickly and safely.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
That video isn't making your trip less safe. If anything, the abstract videos probably cause more average travelers to pay some degree of attention and maybe absorb a little bit of the information, which is the point. if you are :spergin: enough to prefer a dry FAA regulated video, the safety card's right in front of you and you can study it to your heart's content.

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008


the delta videos are good, people pay attention to them more at least :colbert:

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008


yeah that's right im a silver medallion kind of a big deal

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ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013

bull3964 posted:

Really, the FAA should regulate a single safety video per type aircraft in service on US carriers and just have that shown in a no-nonsense manner. By doing this branding crap with abstract imagery, you are engaging the parts of people's brains that turn off advertising and zone out.

That sure is a take. All the information you need is in the safety card. I'm not sure how it works for tubeliners, but all I'm legally required to do is to point them to the safety card. (We do have videos as well).

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