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The thing that really gets me is did my dad read that before he sent it to me? Does he really think I spend $25 a DAY charging my car? How loving stupid does he think I am? Somehow he got from me saving well over $100 a month on gasoline before you get to oil changes and maintenance to my son is setting a pile of money on fire because liberalism or something.
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Feb 8, 2018 21:08
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Only (edit - generally speaking) in areas that typically heat with something other than electricity only, is the distribution not capable of handling widespread EV adoption. Whether it's profitable and/or affects electricity prices remains to be seen. Moving forward, HVAC systems are getting more efficient along with a push to better insulate older homes, so the traditional biggest swing in system load that comes with the seasons will hopefully become less of a factor. Replacing unpredictable peak load that varies with the weather, with predictable nightly (off-peak) EV charging is a good thing. LOL at those electricity prices, but I'm not surprised people believe that poo poo. I deal with high bill complaints daily, and people *do not* understand the correlation between their heat running 20 hours of the day (because they have it set at 75° when it's 15° at night) and the higher than normal power bill that follows. angryrobots fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 21:16
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Three Olives posted:The thing that really gets me is did my dad read that before he sent it to me? Does he really think I spend $25 a DAY charging my car? How loving stupid does he think I am? RW media is literally a poison to the brain.
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Feb 8, 2018 21:22
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Three Olives posted:The thing that really gets me is did my dad read that before he sent it to me? Does he really think I spend $25 a DAY charging my car? How loving stupid does he think I am? Did he go "yes, of course, I guess this text is all wrong" or did he go "yeah but Hilary emails".
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Feb 8, 2018 21:24
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Three Olives posted:How loving stupid does he think I am? Pretty loving stupid apparently.
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Feb 8, 2018 21:29
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Ola posted:Did he go "yes, of course, I guess this text is all wrong" or did he go "yeah but Hilary emails". Three Olives posted:That is complete nonsense for a lot of reasons but if you don’t believe me look at your electric bill, if electricity cost $1.16 a KWh your electric bill would be $1,400 a month, the current price of electricity is not $1.16, it’s $0.028, it costs me $0.34 to drive 50 miles, the most fuel efficient car you can buy gets 42 mpg and I just drove by a gas station selling gas for $2.24 a gallon. We just got our electric bill, my car used less than $8 of electricity for the entire month. Haven't gotten a reply, I'm guessing I won't.
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Feb 8, 2018 21:32
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Three Olives posted:Haven't gotten a reply, I'm guessing I won't.  e: your numbers are a bit on the other side though, $0.028? Ola fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 21:37
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angryrobots posted:Only (edit - generally speaking) in areas that typically heat with something other than electricity only, is the distribution not capable of handling widespread EV adoption. Whether it's profitable and/or affects electricity prices remains to be seen. Better insulation of old homes is the major improvement. HVAC systems are already pretty efficient and aren't likely to rapidly increase from their current range. Heat pumps do have to go through a defrost cycle every so often which does often require kicking on resistance heaters while the defrost cycle runs. During this time, drawing 40-60 amps total is not unreasonable for most houses heat pumps. That said, electric cars are dirt cheap to charge no matter where you live in the US. Having a extra panel just for your cars to charge, can be expensive, but is pretty much a one time cost. As long as you can afford that and keep cars 7-10 years on average, your electric car will come out ahead. My personal experiences with trying out electric cars to see if I could make them work for me: Volt (Lack of headroom/storage), Leaf (Not enough range), i3 (price), Model S (Price). I keep hoping I can try a Bolt for a couple days to see if it fixed the Volt problem. HFX fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 22:23
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Ola posted:e: your numbers are a bit on the other side though, $0.028? Wind energy has cratered the energy market in Texas, it's even undercutting natural gas which was already dirt cheap: 
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Feb 8, 2018 22:32
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Three Olives posted:Wind energy has cratered the energy market in Texas, it's even undercutting natural gas which was already dirt cheap: I'm trying to understand the price structure. If I use 1000KWH its 2.8 cents per kilowatt, but 10.9 if i use 2000KWh? I'm used to see contracts where the more power I used, the cheaper it got.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:36
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HFX posted:I'm trying to understand the price structure. If I use 1000KWH its 2.8 cents per kilowatt, but 10.9 if i use 2000KWh? I'm used to see contracts where the more power I used, the cheaper it got. Based on what Yu-Gi-Ho posts, I think that you understand it correctly. Seems that electricity is all kinds of loving weird in Texas. There have been times where he had to use more electricity to save money.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:40
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IOwnCalculus posted:Based on what Yu-Gi-Ho posts, I think that you understand it correctly. Seems that electricity is all kinds of loving weird in Texas. There have been times where he had to use more electricity to save money. After looking it up, yeah this is standard for places. Having the cost not be increasing on decreasing is the weird part of me. Also, my most recent dealings with electricity have been related around commercial and industrial where volume pricing exists. HFX fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 22:42
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Three Olives posted:Wind energy has cratered the energy market in Texas, it's even undercutting natural gas which was already dirt cheap: Jebus. "Too cheap to meter" is finally here. Our prices are ok, I think, but not great. There's a pseudo-free market where you can "change supplier", but the regional grid owning monopolist also charges you, so for us we pay $.10 to .13 pr kWh, with about 2/3rds to the grid owner. What do the different prices mean? It's weird how goes down from 500 to 1000, then up again from 1000 to 2000.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:43
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HFX posted:I'm trying to understand the price structure. If I use 1000KWH its 2.8 cents per kilowatt, but 10.9 if i use 2000KWh? I'm used to see contracts where the more power I used, the cheaper it got. I think it has to do with how they buy electricity being based on an average consumption of the typical household and if you significantly deviate from that it means the provider has to pay for electricity that isn't used or pay out the rear end for electricity to fire up plants that would otherwise be down during peak loads to cover the capacity that they are selling. That's just a guess though, I have heard that when demand drops below base load it costs extra money and that when we hit peak loads the generators basically have permission to rape the retail providers to fire up their plants to meet demand.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:45
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I'm glad my dad doesn't do email.. Because I know he would forward every one of those types of emails to me.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:53
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Three Olives posted:I think it has to do with how they buy electricity being based on an average consumption of the typical household and if you significantly deviate from that it means the provider has to pay for electricity that isn't used or pay out the rear end for electricity to fire up plants that would otherwise be down during peak loads to cover the capacity that they are selling. Makes sense. So it's for 1000 kWh per month? e: or should I say, between 1000 and 2000?
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Feb 8, 2018 22:54
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Ola posted:Makes sense. So it's for 1000 kWh per month? e: or should I say, between 1000 and 2000?  To be honest I really don't know, my partner pays the electricity bill and he said it was less than $8 more since I got the electric car. I know we are using just around 1000kwh and I drive around 1000 miles a month, my car says it is averaging about 4.1m/kwh even with it staying around 30-50 degrees so it is definitely taking a hit on the battery so at 244 Kwh that works out to $6.83 at $.028 a Kwh. I expect my miles to Kwh to tick up a fair amount seeing as our climate is right in the ideal range for the battery most of the year. The past month or so I'm seeing range estimates between 60~ on stupidly cold days to 82~ on merely cold days, we had an unseasonably warm day and it hit just under 100 miles.
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Feb 8, 2018 23:45
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The way YGH has posted, it seems like the rates listed on that table apply to your entire usage, not just the portion of usage in that. In other words, they work like how people think tax brackets work, instead of how tax brackets actually work. So at 500 kWh, your bill is $39. That next kWh costs you $20.62. 999 kW, your bill is $118.88. The next kWh saves you $90.88. Looking at this with actual numbers in front of me, this seems... insane.
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Feb 8, 2018 23:51
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IOwnCalculus posted:
Or merely designed by an engineer instead of an economist. But hey, it provides a certain element of gamification.
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Feb 8, 2018 23:56
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IOwnCalculus posted:The way YGH has posted, it seems like the rates listed on that table apply to your entire usage, not just the portion of usage in that. In other words, they work like how people think tax brackets work, instead of how tax brackets actually work. No I’m pretty sure it actually does work like tax brackets.
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Feb 8, 2018 23:56
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IOwnCalculus posted:The way YGH has posted, it seems like the rates listed on that table apply to your entire usage, not just the portion of usage in that. In other words, they work like how people think tax brackets work, instead of how tax brackets actually work. I think you’re reading it wrong, and those rates ARE for only the bracketed usage. At least that’s how it works here in the Garden State.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:16
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HFX posted:After looking it up, yeah this is standard for places. Having the cost not be increasing on decreasing is the weird part of me. Also, my most recent dealings with electricity have been related around commercial and industrial where volume pricing exists.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:26
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Agronox posted:I think you’re reading it wrong, and those rates ARE for only the bracketed usage. It says they're not cumulative, I don't quite understand what that entails. But it would make a lot more sense if they worked like tax brackets.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:30
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this pic sure looks like brackets
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Feb 9, 2018 00:47
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Man_of_Teflon posted:this pic sure looks like brackets  No, using 1250 kwh costs less than half as much as using 750 kwh. I know it doesn't make any sense but I think the issue is there are so many parties hedging from the retail companies down to the natural gas suppliers and the penalties are so onerous* for loving up your projections that I think the energy retailers say well 90% of homes are going to use between 1000-1500kwh so gently caress you if you mess with our numbers. * By onerous I mean this: quote:The Electricity Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), which manages Texas’s grid, will raise the system-wide offer cap (SWOC) to $9,000 per megawatt-hour in 2015. For the summer of 2013, the SWOC will be $5,000, up from $2,500 just two years ago. Most other areas of the country have a far lower market cap, between $1,000 to $2,500. So if Texas hits peak demand and the generators have to fire up plants to meet it they are allowed to charge $9,000 a megawatt hour or $9 a kwh so I think they want to make drat sure they know how much energy they need
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Feb 9, 2018 02:40
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hmm that IS really weird. way to gently caress up a perfectly good set of brackets, texas! i guess pricing like that is why Tesla's big battery in Australia made a million bucks in a couple day selling electricity at the right moments.
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Feb 9, 2018 03:07
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Three Olives posted:So if Texas hits peak demand and the generators have to fire up plants to meet it they are allowed to charge $9,000 a megawatt hour or $9 a kwh so I think they want to make drat sure they know how much energy they need Texas’ woes would be less severe if they didn’t insist on running a little electrical island with limited ability to trade with its neighbours.  They can trade 880 MW with the East and 286 MW with the West. For comparison, the system total is 41 898 MW right now, 20:30 local time on a winter night. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 03:27
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California would LOVE to sell Texas gobs of cheap solar power when it's mid-day to early afternoon on the west coast, and in the late evening when the Texas wind is blowing but they're all asleep and we're still watching TV/cooking etc we could buy wind power back, but welp
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Feb 9, 2018 03:49
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bawfuls posted:California would LOVE to sell Texas gobs of cheap solar power when it's mid-day to early afternoon on the west coast, and in the late evening when the Texas wind is blowing but they're all asleep and we're still watching TV/cooking etc we could buy wind power back, but welp But electricity in Texas is cheaper than in California. We make more wind energy than California (20,321 MW vs 5,662 MW) makes in solar (18,296 MW). We are behind in solar at 1,000 MW but that is supposed to double next year when we also add another 4,000 MW in wind. Texas doesn't have energy supply shortages, we have free market fuckery problems and selling our dirt cheap electricity to California at significantly higher prices probably wouldn't solve anything.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:01
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Nationalize that poo poo.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:03
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Subjunctive posted:Nationalize that poo poo. Wait till you learn about Japan.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:20
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Platystemon posted:Texas’ woes would be less severe if they didn’t insist on running a little electrical island with limited ability to trade with its neighbours. what in the hell happened to arkansas?
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Feb 9, 2018 04:41
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I know we're both in Oncor territory, so... which REP are you using, and which plan? That's a lot better than mine, which is 4.1c/kwh at 1000. I get a $100 credit if I use between 1000-1500, and a $30 credit if I use 500-999... so it really does cost a lot less to use 1000 vs 500, but if I break 1500 I get hosed sideways. I'm on Gexa's Prime Value 12.  And for those questioning... these aren't tiered plans, where you pay one rate for part of your usage, then another rate once you exceed that. Your entire month gets billed at one rate, depending which tier you fall into. My REP gives a very nice credit if I keep it between 1000-1500 (difficult during cold snaps [hard not to go over] and mild months [hard to even hit 600], doable the rest of the year). bawfuls posted:California would LOVE to sell Texas gobs of cheap solar power when it's mid-day to early afternoon on the west coast, and in the late evening when the Texas wind is blowing but they're all asleep and we're still watching TV/cooking etc we could buy wind power back, but welp A tiny part of Texas is on the western interconnect. If you're old enough, you may remember two large blackouts in 1996 - that also completely took out my home town (El Paso TX), despite El Paso having their own generators. El Paso also suffered from a couple of city-wide blackouts in 1995; still have the newspaper from one of those. 
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 05:25
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I just realized people often think that TAXES have that sort of nonsensical threshold fuckery, but it's really TEXAS that has the nonsensical threshold fuckery. Just one vowel-swap away. So what do you do if you've used like 975kWh as the payment period end approaches? What do you do to waste power? Air conditioning with the door open? Electric heater outside? Mine some bitcoins? Edit: business idea, mobile bitcoin mining rig that you move around in Texas to help people get into the good-price tier, and in return you get free bitcoin-mining electricity.
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Feb 9, 2018 05:39
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e: I missed that.
Platystemon fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 05:44
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Yu-Gi-Ho! posted:I know we're both in Oncor territory, so... which REP are you using, and which plan? I pay 4.2 on my condo, I just went to Power to Choose to look at current rates and it looks like $.028 is the current best prevailing rate. Honestly I have no idea what my partner is paying, I did at one point but it was close to what I am paying. Honestly we sat down months ago and divided out the expenses and called it even, the <$8 is so insignificant in our monthly budget it just got thrown in with miscellaneous slush. Three Olives fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 05:57
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Yu-Gi-Ho! posted:That's a lot better than mine, which is 4.1c/kwh at 1000. I get a $100 credit if I use between 1000-1500, and a $30 credit if I use 500-999... so it really does cost a lot less to use 1000 vs 500, but if I break 1500 I get hosed sideways. I'm on Gexa's Prime Value 12.
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Feb 9, 2018 07:52
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The 4.1 cents includes the $100 credit. So I'm paying $41 + taxes if I use exactly 1000 kWh.Three Olives posted:I pay 4.2 on my condo, I just went to Power to Choose to look at current rates and it looks like $.028 is the current best prevailing rate. Honestly I have no idea what my partner is paying, I did at one point but it was close to what I am paying. I'm locked into my current plan for another 6 months, so unless it's with Gexa, I won't be able to change anyway. But I know a lot of the lesser known companies on Power to Choose throw a shitload of fees at you, or shut you off if you're even 12 hours late paying, etc. I've always been with TXU, Reliant, or Gexa since I moved to DFW. My only gripe with Gexa is you can't see daily usage with them; i have to hit up smartmetertexas.com every couple of days to see usage, which isn't mobile friendly in the least. Though SMT's website lets you do a real-time poll of your meter, which is nice (takes a couple of minutes, but you see usage up to the last couple of minutes when you do that). I'm in a tiny part of Garland that's on Oncor, so I consider myself lucky. Garland Power & Light has traditional tiered rates, but my electric bill would be roughly double with them. I'm in a poorly insulated early 80s apartment with electric heat, and an electric water heater outside (it's in a closet on my patio - if I stay another year I'll drop the money on a water heater blanket, it was tough to stay under 1500 kWh with that nasty cold snap we got). randomidiot fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 08:20
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Three Olives posted:But electricity in Texas is cheaper than in California. We make more wind energy than California (20,321 MW vs 5,662 MW) makes in solar (18,296 MW). We are behind in solar at 1,000 MW but that is supposed to double next year when we also add another 4,000 MW in wind.
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Feb 9, 2018 08:46
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And while California electricity is going to be pretty expensive on summer afternoons, it’s going to undercut $9/kW•hr.
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Feb 9, 2018 08:51
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