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Suspicious posted:How are you supposed to raise a stat to 25 without cheating? Unless this includes temporary buffs, in which case the achievement is trivial to get. Slayer transformation 
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Mar 13, 2016 03:51
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Crom also sets Strength to 25, no?
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Mar 13, 2016 09:08
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My roll-your-own necromancer follower levels up sooooo slooooow. All my party members are level 2 except him, with his FOUR loving HITPOINTS and his two lovely casts and his complete loving uselessness. Imoen will be level 3 and my assassin and priest not far behind by the time his rear end levels up. How long until this guy is not a drag? And where can I find some sort of ranged weapon for him? E: Slings. 22 THAC0 with a +1 hahahaha holy poo poo this is terrible. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 10:12
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Woolie Wool posted:My roll-your-own necromancer follower levels up sooooo slooooow. All my party members are level 2 except him, with his FOUR loving HITPOINTS and his two lovely casts and his complete loving uselessness. Imoen will be level 3 and my assassin and priest not far behind by the time his rear end levels up. How long until this guy is not a drag? And where can I find some sort of ranged weapon for him? Half of the game, more or less. He can't hit poo poo so it doesn't matter if he's holding a sling or not. Low lvl mages suck. Sleep is pretty much the only reason to have one in the first part of the game.
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Mar 13, 2016 10:18
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Guess I might have to turn on Story Mode occasionally to pull this idiot out of the fryer then. I've had to reload from several of his deaths already. Man, loving low-level Aloth in Pillars of Eternity, who is himself practically a dead weight until level 5 or so, might as well be Merlin himself next to this. Also Pillars of Eternity characters have a dual HP system so they don't instantly die, that always helps with low level wizards.
Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 10:24
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Mages get useful about level 3, which really isn't too far in.
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Mar 13, 2016 10:33
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Yeah, Mages have tons of good spells. Sleep, Web, Slow, Haste are some notable lower-level ones. Agannazar's Scorcher can do respectable damage early on if that's what you're looking for. Necromancers have issues, though, because not getting Illusions makes their poo poo HP hurt even more, and if your Dex and Con aren't 18 and 16 respectively you hosed up. (Also, Aloth is great as soon as you give him a single decent spell, it's just his starting selection that's pretty suboptimal.)
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Mar 13, 2016 10:40
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Wizard Styles posted:Yeah, Mages have tons of good spells. Sleep, Web, Slow, Haste are some notable lower-level ones. Agannazar's Scorcher can do respectable damage early on if that's what you're looking for. Slow and Haste are not low lvl spells in BG1, really. You get them at lvl 5 which is like 2/3rds into the game.
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Mar 13, 2016 10:44
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God, now I feel like starting the game over again...
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Mar 13, 2016 10:50
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Dyna Soar posted:Slow and Haste are not low lvl spells in BG1, really. You get them at lvl 5 which is like 2/3rds into the game. e: Actually, more importantly, what spells did you pick, Woolie Wool? Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 10:50
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Wizard Styles posted:Nah, you get there before Cloakwood, which may not be low level but is still before the halfway point. If you level-grind against Basilisks and maybe Sirines you can reach level 3 spells before the Bandit Camp. Yeah? I don't grind, maybe that's my problem.
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Mar 13, 2016 10:52
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Dyna Soar posted:Yeah? I don't grind, maybe that's my problem. If you don't deal with them you'll be exploring for a while until you reach level 3 spells, though.
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Mar 13, 2016 10:57
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22 THAC0 indicates a penalty of some sort. No one should have greater than 20. Have you dumped a stat hard, or not given him the proper proficiency or something?
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Mar 13, 2016 11:00
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Dyna Soar posted:God, now I feel like starting the game over again... Likewise, except I'm near the end of a small party sorcerer run which I'm enjoying an awful lot.
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Mar 13, 2016 14:02
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Dyna Soar posted:Half of the game, more or less. He can't hit poo poo so it doesn't matter if he's holding a sling or not. Unless the targets are slept/stunned. But then necromancer...
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Mar 13, 2016 15:20
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Wizard Styles posted:Nah, you get there before Cloakwood, which may not be low level but is still before the halfway point. If you level-grind against Basilisks and maybe Sirines you can reach level 3 spells before the Bandit Camp without doing too much else. The default necromancer spell and Magic Missile. The default necro spell because it refused to not let me pick it, and Magic Missile because everyone needs a basic "make people die" spell. I wonder if I should have endured an even longer level 1 time by rolling him as a thief and then dual-classing at his first level-up to necromancer so he could have a lot more hitpoints and leather armor (but then I'd have to make him a human, not an elf, and take the chance from the tweakpack that a few of my spells will fail). I do have Sleep now, after I found a scroll for it and had him write it to his spellbook. Sleep of Bronze posted:22 THAC0 indicates a penalty of some sort. No one should have greater than 20. Have you dumped a stat hard, or not given him the proper proficiency or something? He doesn't have a weapon proficiency in slings. If you use a weapon your character is not proficient in you get a penalty. I rolled a melee-heavy party (two of my party members are built as sword and board dudes and the other was an ill-advised attempt to build an assassin as a dual-wield melee DPS guy) so when I discovered that bows are the only real weapon you can use without dying all the time until a few levels in I basically had to accept that my THAC0s are mostly going to suck. I actually did have a real archer character at the start, with the actual Archer class no less and two proficiency points in longbows, but I had to dump him to let Imoen in because I felt I had to, and if I were to go get him, he would be 2000 exp behind. And then people tell me to do things like roll a necro with 18 CON and DEX instead of 18 INT like I did. This game wants me to do things that are from an RP perspective totally retarded. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 16:00
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The mistake is thinking of them as role playing games. They are actually frustrating little puzzle boxes and are most enjoyable when treated like that.
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Mar 13, 2016 16:07
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Also what exactly are thieves good at besides opening locks and finding traps? They seem to lack the murder potential of rogues from other games. Also is my party completely broken from too much common sense and should I start over? Are specialist kits just bad compared to their base classes because that's the general impression I'm getting Cavaliers are worse than paladins (fortunately I discovered that in the tutorial), necromancers are worse than plain wizards, assassins suck at the things you would use a thief for but also suck at ganking people because they're D&D thieves. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 16:09
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Backstabbing mostly. Most things you want to backstab cant be so i never saw the point.
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Mar 13, 2016 16:15
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So what should I do for "uses two weapons to kill people really fast at the expense of tanking potential", if that is even possible in AD&D/at low levels.
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Mar 13, 2016 16:17
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Shields dont add much tanking potential in baldurs gate games so youre better off dual wielding anyway.
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Mar 13, 2016 16:19
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Making good use of backstabbing and traps require you to approach combat in a certain way. If you fight everything head on rogues won't do much for you. Dual wielding is a bad idea in BG1. You need all the AC you can get, so use a shield. This does not mean you have to put points in sword & shield style or not put points in two weapon style, just that you should wait until BG2 to dual wield. Also there's nothing preventing you from rolling a wizard with 18 DEX, 16 CON *and* 18 INT. Assuming every other stat is at 10, that's only a total of 82.
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Mar 13, 2016 16:22
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Anyway, this was my starting party, minus the archer because he's no longer in the party: Human paladin STR 16 DEX 11 CON 17 INT 13 WIS 13 CHR 17 Dwarf fighter STR 18/69 (gently caress this system, it should just be 18) DEX 13 CON 19 INT 11 WIS 13 CHR 13 Human cleric STR 12 DEX 10 CON 13 INT 17 WIS 18 CHR 14 Elf assassin STR 16 DEX 18 CON 11 INT 15 WIS 12 CHR 11 Elf necromancer STR 11 DEX 16 CON 11 INT 18 WIS 16 CHR 11
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Mar 13, 2016 16:32
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Basically single class thieves are just utility characters and scouts with rudimentary combat skills. Give them a bow and let them just plink away. Their thaco is too high to score a backstab, really so unless you want to savescum you can't really count on backstabbing. What you should do is to either choose a multiclass or dual class. If you want an elf and need a PC with thief skills straight away a multiclass would be much better than a single class thief. A mage/thief will be really useful after you hit lvl 5 with your mage class. A fighter/thief will be really useful for the whole game and you actually have a good chance to land a backstab now and then, too. Dual classing is a bit gamey but it's how you actually get the most powerful character combinations. A let's say Thief 7/Mage x dual class can do all the useful utility stuff you really need a thief for and you get a single class mage on top. Woolie Wool posted:Also what exactly are thieves good at besides opening locks and finding traps? They seem to lack the murder potential of rogues from other games. The closest to a glass cannon rogue you can get is the bard kit Blade. They can be both a super tank or a glass cannon, depending on which of their innate spin abilities you use. They can buff themselves, too. A really fun class to play. Specialist mages are a bit of a hit or miss. Some are really good, some are gimped compared to the better ones or even a single classed mage. Assasins are crazy powerful at high levels but at lower levels they're pretty much useless yeah. You have to remember that all of the specialist kits were impletented for BG2 and Bioware gave no thought whatsoever for balance on lower levels. Dyna Soar fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 16:32
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Woolie Wool posted:Also what exactly are thieves good at besides opening locks and finding traps? They seem to lack the murder potential of rogues from other games. Traps are pretty excellent
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Mar 13, 2016 16:35
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bongwizzard posted:The mistake is thinking of them as role playing games. They are actually frustrating little puzzle boxes and are most enjoyable when treated like that. Agreed, they're basically choose your own adventure books and the combat, especially at higher levels is basically a puzzle. You have to figure out how to break the system to win. That's why SCS is crucial once you know the game pretty well. I wish more RPG games would take this approach. I'll still happily play Jagged Alliance 2 and Baldur's Gate two after all these years. Dyna Soar fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 16:39
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Woolie Wool posted:Anyway, this was my starting party, minus the archer because he's no longer in the party: I strongly recommend min maxing in this game, at least for the physical damage characters. Max the physical stats, ideally getting 18/91+ on str, the mental stats do almost nothing, the physical stats are all very valuable.
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Mar 13, 2016 16:59
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Dyna Soar posted:Basically single class thieves are just utility characters and scouts with rudimentary combat skills. Give them a bow and let them just plink away. Their thaco is too high to score a backstab, really so unless you want to savescum you can't really count on backstabbing. What about an elf multi-class thief/mage? The 10% miscast chance with leather armor sucks and only one cast at level 1 sucks even more but he might be able to survive being hit once. I'm probably going to start again, and import my PC paladin, even with his slightly sub-optimal stats, because having a level 2 character right off the bat is nice and he's sitting on a bunch of expensive gear that I can use or sell. Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 17:03
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Woolie Wool posted:Anyway, this was my starting party, minus the archer because he's no longer in the party: You choose how to play the game, but yeah I'd advise you to just min-maxing a bit more. I usually keep everything at 10 minimum though not to cheese it too much. Also the assassin and the necromancer are just a bad idea. Take a multiclass mage/thief and a single class conjurer instead. Those two are much more efficient at their roles and can basically handle any arcane casting you need. Since roleplaying in these games is really non-existent it doesn't really matter what combination of multi-class or dual class you choose. Woolie Wool posted:What about an elf multi-class thief/mage? The 10% miscast chance with leather armor sucks and only one cast at level 1 sucks even more but he might be able to survive being hit once. Don't wear any armor. You can cast buffs that lower your AC or like stoneskin, just ignore any physical hits but basically for the first 10 levels your mage or rogue should be nowhere near physical combat. Dyna Soar fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 17:05
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Here's how I'd make your party, hah: PC Paladin, Inquisitor. They're like a paladin on steroids. True sight & dispel magic is the poo poo. High STR, CON and WIS. Dwarf Berserker. Like a fighter just better. High STR, DEX and CON. Non-human Ranger / Cleric. Single class clerics are pretty lovely. Ranger / Clerics get both druid and cleric spells and are pretty good fighters, too. It's kind of cheating I guess since them getting the full druid spell progression is a bug, but who cares. High STR, CON and WIS Elf Thief/Mage. Backup caster, utility character and scout. Buff up a bit and backstab galore. High DEX, CON and INT Elf Conjurer. Main caster, loses divination but who cares, your backup can handle the few times you need them. Your paladin also has true sight, so missing it won't be such a big deal. High DEX, CON and INT Bard kit Blade. Backup tank, backup glass cannon, backup caster... These guys are amazing. High STR, DEX, CON, INT and CHA so might take a few rerolls. You have 4 characters who can tank, 4 characters who can cast spells. Best part is, all of them are useful from the get-go. Not a fan of builds that take a long time to get useful in BG. Dyna Soar fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 17:15
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Poison weapon make assassins really strong in BG1. Just give them darts to get a good number of attacks / round. Also mages are great from the getgo due to sleep, blindness and spook, just avoid the bad specialists that don't get enchantments or illusions.
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Mar 13, 2016 17:44
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Now I feel kind of overwhelmed--am I really the right sort of person to be playing these games? I liked Pillars of Eternity but I liked it for a reason that seems to make BG grognards on RPG Codex and other terrible places despise it--that you can manage character creation and combat decisions mostly through common sense. Every class is viable, every skill does something, and you win by playing to the strengths of what you have rather than having the best thing from the beginning.
Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Mar 13, 2016 |
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Mar 13, 2016 17:49
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Woolie Wool posted:Now I feel kind of overwhelmed--am I really the right sort of person to be playing these games? I liked Pillars of Eternity but I liked it for a reason that seems to make BG grognards on RPG Codex and other terrible places despise it--that you can manage character creation and combat decisions mostly through common sense. It's not that overwhelming once you get a few hours in. The game rules are a bit arcane if you're used to modern games that try to make sense, but you can beat the game with any party composition really. The in game NPC's are really quite bad if you look at them from a powergaming perspective. We've just been playing the game for 15 years and know every trick in the book, hah.
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Mar 13, 2016 17:53
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So could I just power through with the party I have and be able to hold my own after the initial 4-5 level shittiness?
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Mar 13, 2016 18:00
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Woolie Wool posted:So could I just power through with the party I have and be able to hold my own after the initial 4-5 level shittiness? Yeah but I strongly recommend playing the first time as a single character instead of creating a whole party. The story and NPCs are easily half the appeal of Baldur's Gate. I also think as a newbie managing a huge party right off the bat is really tough. Cavalier is better than straight Paladin but you can't use ranged weapons, which does suck in BG1.
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Mar 13, 2016 18:03
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Woolie Wool posted:So could I just power through with the party I have and be able to hold my own after the initial 4-5 level shittiness? You just as well could, although your class choices will make the game a bit harder than with the default npc's.
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Mar 13, 2016 18:06
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Woolie Wool posted:Now I feel kind of overwhelmed--am I really the right sort of person to be playing these games? I liked Pillars of Eternity but I liked it for a reason that seems to make BG grognards on RPG Codex and other terrible places despise it--that you can manage character creation and combat decisions mostly through common sense. Every class is viable, every skill does something, and you win by playing to the strengths of what you have rather than having the best thing from the beginning. Just tune down the difficulty and play whatever non-kit class along with the stock companions. You can easily change stats or class later down the road with the savegame editor if you want something else
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Mar 13, 2016 18:12
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Once character creation is over the character progression is pretty straightforward and narrow, even. More like japanese RPG's than Skyrim. Your stats go up at a predefined pace and the only thing you get to choose, really are the weapon proficiences.
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Mar 13, 2016 18:19
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Dyna Soar posted:You just as well could, although your class choices will make the game a bit harder than with the default npc's. Huh, that's odd because I thought it would make the game easier. A full set of party members with radically divergent abilities who hopefully complement each other. Unfortunately half of them turned out to be really lovely.
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Mar 13, 2016 18:23
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Woolie Wool posted:Huh, that's odd because I thought it would make the game easier. A full set of party members with radically divergent abilities who hopefully complement each other. Unfortunately half of them turned out to be really lovely. I'd say all you need to do really is to change the necromancer into a pure class mage and that party looks a lot better. I'd probably ditch the assassin, too (for a mage/thief, hah). Assassin is definitely a great class at higher levels but in BG1 I'd take more thief skills over poison weapon since your ability to actually hit stuff will be poo poo.
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Mar 13, 2016 18:26
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