|
Traveller posted:Is it wrong that I want a game that is basically Unreal Tournament: Championship Manager? I want my players to blow stuff up for my profit. It's not really FPS related, but I'd kinda like to have an old fashioned Roman Colosseum Gladiator Manager game. You could train your peeps, and do whatever was necessary to get them ready for the ring, but when it comes time for them to fight, all you can do is watch. And bet on either your gladiator or the enemy gladiator. Just imagine how exciting it would be with realistic skeleton/gore models, 200% blood inside each gladiator, and totally random factors that could go in your favor, or the enemy's favor, regardless of how well they were trained (for example, cheap sword might break, gladiator pulls small knife out of wound causing it to bleed more, gladiator could slip on some bloody mud, unexpected muscle cramps at the worst possible time, and so on). And if your gladiator dies, you'd just buy another one and hope it does better. I would buy a game like that. And maybe a remake of Doom 1, using the id Tech 5 engine. Honestly, id could probably sell some extra copies of Doom 4 if they included with it, as a bonus, remakes of Doom 1 and 2 done with the latest and greatest engine. Or just remake the 2 games and call it Doom 4. Add some gore, Brutal Doom style, and it would probably sell like hot cakes. Supreme Power fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jun 17, 2013 |
#
?
Jun 17, 2013 20:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 19:38 |
|
|
Nah, just make Doom 4 as a game on idTech 1
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2013 20:57
|
|
|
Keiya posted:Nah, just make Doom 4 as a game on idTech 1 Actually, that would be kinda cool. If by idTech 1 we also mean zdoom.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2013 21:07
|
|
|
Traveller posted:Is it wrong that I want a game that is basically Unreal Tournament: Championship Manager? I want my players to blow stuff up for my profit. I like this as another gamemode along with closeted republican posted:I'd be all over that as long as you could hop into matches yourself. I liked the team management you could do in UT2k4's SP mode, so an expanded version of that would be perfect. And TerminusEst13 posted:I'm not even that interested in the "tournament" part. I really just want Unreal 1's gameplay, UT2k4's graphic design, and UT3's engine. v A man can dream. The UT: Championship Manager sounds cool if bots had UT99's AI. UT 2k4 graphic design is what keeps coming back. It's colorful, it has ragdolls, it has good weapons and was cheesy. I still like UT99 more but it had more variety and Onslaught was a great surprise. For pure DM/TDM/CTF UT99 is still the king of the series. Also all this "remake" chat makes me wonder if id is going to ever try to make an updated version of Quake 3. idTech5 is a great engine but I don't know if it can be good enough for an arena game (or even idTech4).
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2013 21:10
|
|
|
Supreme Power posted:Actually, that would be kinda cool. If by idTech 1 we also mean zdoom. Doomworld would become the most hilarious place on the Internet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2013 21:34
|
|
|
Am I crazy for thinking Quake II is a vastly superior game to the original Quake? It's got a fully unified sense of place and theme (say what you want about the drab texture colors or abuse of colored lighting, Stroggos at least looks like a product of a specific vision instead of a mishmash of incompatible elements like Quake 1), more diverse and balanced enemies and weapons, and fewer gently caress-you moments than the first Quake. When I play Quake II I get immersed in the world they've created, but when I play Quake 1 I feel like I'm playing three different games at once and see all the seams between them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 00:44
|
|
|
I'm not going to deny that Quake II has a more cohesive aesthetic than Quake, but who the hell plays Quake for the immersion? Quake II's levels are some uncomfortable medium between Half Life's realistic layouts and the old-school abstract design, while Quake's layouts, despite making no visual sense, are maybe the last great moment of gameplay-first, abstract levels, and feature some of the best uses of verticality ever in an FPS.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 00:47
|
|
|
I also preferred Quake II for the same reason. All in all I think the Doom series were better games than any of the Quake series.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 00:58
|
|
|
Fag Boy Jim posted:I'm not going to deny that Quake II has a more cohesive aesthetic than Quake, but who the hell plays Quake for the immersion? Quake II's levels are some uncomfortable medium between Half Life's realistic layouts and the old-school abstract design, while Quake's layouts, despite making no visual sense, are maybe the last great moment of gameplay-first, abstract levels, and feature some of the best uses of verticality ever in an FPS. Well considering that immersion has always been kind of the whole point of the FPS from the beginning (it was one of the big box-art bullet points for both Wolfenstein 3D and Doom), it's rather important. Also I don't really find Quake II's levels all that awkward except for the ones in Ground Zero, which were done by Rogue and not Id Software. The hub system is IMO handled quite well and works much better than it did in Hexen.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 01:10
|
|
|
I honestly couldn't even get out of the first hub area in Quake 2, last time I played it. gently caress that game and gently caress its level design. gently caress cohesive aesthetics too, more games should be willing to go balls out insane like the original Quake and Shadow Warrior. e: Multiplayer in Q2's probably pretty okay though, I came in too late to play any multiplayer but I'd imagine it's fun. SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jun 18, 2013 |
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 01:26
|
|
|
Quake 2's maps aren't bad because they're confusing, they're bad because they're boring. The decision to make the maps look like an "actual" mining area, or an "actual" prison limit the map designer's abilities to create interesting and unpredictable combat areas, and at the same time, the maps aren't nearly detailed enough to be immersive in the sense that something like Half Life was.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 01:33
|
|
|
WickedIcon posted:I honestly couldn't even get out of the first hub area in Quake 2, last time I played it. gently caress that game and gently caress its level design. gently caress cohesive aesthetics too, more games should be willing to go balls out insane like the original Quake and Shadow Warrior. Shadow Warrior was actually a pretty lovely game with horrendous gameplay IMO, and even it made more sense than Quake 1, which was a complete design train wreck.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 01:40
|
|
|
Quake has the better singleplayer, but Quake 2 had Action Quake 2. Tough choice.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 01:40
|
|
|
I liked Quake 2's single player maps.  But I did enjoy Quake 1's maps/"setting" more for the most part. I actually think calling them abstract/unrealistic is a matter of semantics, because for the most part (some maps of E4 aside) they were cleanly textured with a unifying theme. They were very immersive given the conceit that you were exploring nightmarish alternate dimensions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 01:41
|
|
|
field balm posted:Quake has the better singleplayer, but Quake 2 had Action Quake 2. Tough choice. This is the first time I've ever witnessed anyone say anything even remotely nice about Quake's single player (after the first two weeks when it was released) 
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 01:45
|
|
|
Jerry Cotton posted:This is the first time I've ever witnessed anyone say anything even remotely nice about Quake's single player (after the first two weeks when it was released) Except several times on this page, you mean? EDIT: For the record, I'm a fan of Quake's SP too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 02:10
|
|
|
Jerry Cotton posted:This is the first time I've ever witnessed anyone say anything even remotely nice about Quake's single player (after the first two weeks when it was released) What? It's generally considered the last great old-school shooter campaign, at least with pretty much everyone I've talked to about it. I played it a few months ago and it's still fun as hell.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 02:14
|
|
|
Having replayed Q2 last year, and replaying Q1 at the moment, I feel safe to say that the former blows the latter's singleplayer out of the water with a rocket launcher. Q1 starts of fine, and there is something undeniably awesome about its mysterious Lovecraft-meets-science-fiction vibe, but it goes downhill so loving fast. I love the first episode, with its weird enemies, cool introduction of weapons, and a boss that might be an absolute pushover, but looks awesome. The second episode has some of the best maps, but then it all goes to poo poo. The third episode is just okay, and I hate the fourth one with a vengeance. Vores are awful, and the maps are so labyrinthe that I often can't help but end up lost. Everybody knows that Quake was the result of troubled design, and it shows: almost all enemies are bulletsponges that take ages to die, and there are no fun popcorn opponents to blast away with the exception of grunts (and those only feature in what? 5 levels?). It really shows that every episode was made by another designer, because there's no sense of progress or cohesion (and I don't mean that in the cool way). Oh, you've got a kick-rear end arsenal? Here's one or two levels to use it, before we take it away so we can introduce it all over again during the course of the next episode. It's a shame, really, because the aesthetics are fantastic. There are some really cool themes buried deep inside, and if they'd add even a little bit of plot to actually work with the ideas thrown around those themes could make the game so much more awesome. Quake 2, now there's a campaign I really love. It's still weird and alien, with a cool techno-vibe, but the presence of a teeny-weeny bit of plot make it a coherent whole. There are no individual episodes, so the player has a constant sense of progression. Enemies are still diverse, but because the game is so much more coherent, iD gets to have its cake and eat it to: popcorn enemies are used in tandem with some bad motherfuckers, but five levels later you have new weapons that make those bad motherfuckers seem like more popcorn. You feel mighty, but only for a second because something even bigger and worse is just around the corner. By the end of the game, you're storming an alien stronghold defended by two Tanks, blasting them with a BFG, and you feel like you've really earned your place as a genuine badass. And speaking of the BFG: the weapons are much better too. Basically, Quake 2 takes Doom's varied arsenal and adds to it. The result of this is that many of your tools keep their use: the super shotgun remains powerful, but only for short range. The railgun and rocket launcher are awesome, but you'll want to save them for the bigger opponents that are far away. Compare this with Q1, where half of your arsenal (the shotgun, nailgun, in some cases even the grenade launcher) are made obsolete when you find their upgrades. Plus it has a fantastic soundtrack!* *If you can get it, at least. Since my Steam copy didn't have it, I had to make do with my own playlist. I've since learned that the 300 soundtrack works quite well, and that storming the fortress at the end of the game while "Returns A King" plays is awesome. Still, no matter how much I love Q2 more, Q1's atmosphere has made me play its campaign at least once a year... BTW, on a different note: am I the only one who tells himself that Quake 2 is a prequel to Quake 1? I mean, the Strogg must have been made by someone, and their crates keep appearing in Quake 1. And they are shown to have the capability for creating black holes. So in my head, after Quake 2, the humans find something under the Macron's palace, something terrible... the slipgate. Determined to end the threat at its source, you're send through. Seriously iD, you lazy sloths, these plots write themselves! A Worrying Warlock fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jun 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 02:19
|
|
|
Garnavis posted:Except several times on this page, you mean? Guess who clicked '229'  All right, this thread is the first place I've seen it happen.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 02:25
|
|
|
Cool write-up, you're right about the weapons in q1, too many are not useful through the whole game. Nailgun, super-shotgun, grenade launcher, rockets, lightning gun would have been enough and pretty well balanced. I love the way the maps are all made by different designers etc, but there is very little cohesion above the aesthetic (I have no idea if there is a plot). I really do love the lovecraftian setting. gently caress vores though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 02:27
|
|
|
One nice thing about Q2 was that while Doom and Q1 front-loaded all the monsters and weapons, Q2 gave you something new to use or to kill every few levels almost up to the very end of the game. Of course the mission packs went and threw this in the garbage. The Reckoning was still a pretty cool campaign but Ground Zero... 
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 02:34
|
|
|
I prefer the style of Q1, but Q2 is pretty good too, though in a different way, as noted. I remember enjoying Q2 a lot, but one of the big maps... it was near the end, the power plant, I think? It was just so terrible that I ended up skipping past it. I love the industrial gothic look of Q1, part of the reason I loved UT&T as well, I wish more games would go for that style, while Q2 had a fairly generic sci-fi look to it. Nothing wrong with that, of course, I love generic sci-fi as much as the next guy, but it can lead to sort of bland levels. I also agree with the sentiment of "gently caress Vores" though. Hate them, and I hate Revenants. gently caress 'em.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 02:38
|
|
|
field balm posted:Cool write-up, you're right about the weapons in q1, too many are not useful through the whole game. Nailgun, super-shotgun, grenade launcher, rockets, lightning gun would have been enough and pretty well balanced. Quake to me feels like it couldn't decide what sort of game it wanted to be, and couldn't integrate any of its pieces together very well. The seams between the sci-fi, medieval, and Lovecraftian elements are glaring and detract from the experience. The themes probably could have been integrated better (have a progression through episodes each focused on a different Quake theme, including an all-Earth episode at the very beginning, and expand the arsenal and bestiary, and tie the story into the game somehow. Doom had a similarly paper-thin story but it was reflected in the game. Phobos, Deimos, Hell, each a distinctive and different place. Quake's story has nothing to do with the actual game at all. Oh, and some actually good and memorable weapons that are not the rocket launcher. Like a clunky, clockpunkish, definitely alien nail-shotgun to replace the SSG that does massive close-range damage (~120 like the Q2 SSG would be about right), or a living weapon made of meat and bones that shoots a swarm of flesh-eating flies (black particles), or the like. catlord posted:I prefer the style of Q1, but Q2 is pretty good too, though in a different way, as noted. I remember enjoying Q2 a lot, but one of the big maps... it was near the end, the power plant, I think? It was just so terrible that I ended up skipping past it. I love the industrial gothic look of Q1, part of the reason I loved UT&T as well, I wish more games would go for that style, while Q2 had a fairly generic sci-fi look to it. Nothing wrong with that, of course, I love generic sci-fi as much as the next guy, but it can lead to sort of bland levels. The power plant is probably the lowest point of the game, but Quake 1 certainly had its share of really irritating and confusing maps (gently caress YOU PAIN MAZE), especially in Episode 4, which I've heard was basically a rejects bin of levels that weren't suitable for the earlier episodes. Both of the first two Quakes could use a recoloring project with retouched textures and possibly new palettes, and for QII, a relighting project as well. gently caress that hi-res poo poo, just make the colors pop more. Compare Quake 1 to Hexen II, for instance (however, every aspect of Hexen II besides the rather impressive architecture and texturing sucks mountains of horse dicks). Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jun 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 02:40
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:The power plant is probably the lowest point of the game, but Quake 1 certainly had its share of really irritating and confusing maps (gently caress YOU PAIN MAZE), especially in Episode 4, which I've heard was basically a rejects bin of levels that weren't suitable for the earlier episodes. Honestly I haven't finished Q1, but I don't doubt that at all. Most iD games, or pre-Quake 2 ones, I only pick up, play a couple levels and put down for a bit. I had to actively sit down and finish Doom, which had several issues like that too (still haven't finished Doom 2). Also, holy poo poo, I like your weapon ideas, that would be cool as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 03:04
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:Quake to me feels like it couldn't decide what sort of game it wanted to be Which was actually true behind the scenes, coincidentally enough.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 03:14
|
|
|
TOOT BOOT posted:Personally I found the real gore thing to be in much worse taste. Photographs of actual dead people should not be fodder for amusement. everyone loves dead space, and that's how the team figured out how to make the necromorphs look the way they do. looking at photos of mutilated bodies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 04:54
|
|
|
Colon Semicolon posted:everyone loves dead space, and that's how the team figured out how to make the necromorphs look the way they do. looking at photos of mutilated bodies. Right but they didn't just use the actual pictures. The thought of someone I love dying and ending up as gibs in a Doom mod is pretty awful.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 05:25
|
|
|
edit: nevermind, stupid conversation, don't want to drag out RoTT and Shadow Warrior looking great guys! ExMortis fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Jun 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 06:02
|
|
|
The real gibs looked like absolute poo poo; that probably has more to do with why they were abandoned than taste or lack thereof. And now for some shameless self-promotion!  Also if anyone is in the mood for a Wolfenstein mod, I released an expansion pack to my ECWolf tech demo mod with 9 new huge levels (128x128 tiles instead of 64x64), a
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 06:29
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:The real gibs looked like absolute poo poo; that probably has more to do with why they were abandoned than taste or lack thereof. Ooh, new version of ECWolf! Although, does it not recognise the mouse wheel? And not have an automap yet? Also tried out your stuff, and gotta say, pretty cool!
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 06:54
|
|
|
Has anyone figured out how to get The Doom High Resolution Texture Pack to work in gzdoom? I'm using gzdoom 1.8.0. For some reason I can't seem to find an answer in Google...or I'm just dumb and not using the correct search terms. edit: Is the file on the website completely fake? It's hard to imagine that they would know about this problem and leave it unfixed for over half a year.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 07:47
|
|
|
Have you put it in the Skins folder?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 09:52
|
|
|
Traveller posted:Is it wrong that I want a game that is basically Unreal Tournament: Championship Manager? I want my players to blow stuff up for my profit. UT2004's campaign was kinda like this. You could hire and fire teammates on cost, and you had to pay for injuries and fend off rival challenges. It's a shame UT3's custom model unfriendly, because I sure would have loved exploding things as a giant T-Rex.  If the ROTT reboot has its bodies fade away, I will be incredibly annoyed. I'm actually holding off Quake 2 because I want my gibs to stay, like in DarkPlaces. I'm the very shooter fan Spec Ops: The Line warned you about Anyway, I definitely agree with the Quake 1 writeup - Quake 2 was generic military base blast baddies blah blah (I still like the game, though), whereas Quake 1 felt dark and oppressive all the way through, even if the architecture got annoying at times. Scourge of Armagon's maps are pretty great.
JackMackerel fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Jun 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 10:21
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:Am I crazy for thinking Quake II is a vastly superior game to the original Quake? It's got a fully unified sense of place and theme (say what you want about the drab texture colors or abuse of colored lighting, Stroggos at least looks like a product of a specific vision instead of a mishmash of incompatible elements like Quake 1), more diverse and balanced enemies and weapons, and fewer gently caress-you moments than the first Quake. When I play Quake II I get immersed in the world they've created, but when I play Quake 1 I feel like I'm playing three different games at once and see all the seams between them. I dunno, I quit Quake II after the first 30 seconds. Quake was a weird mishmash, yes, but it worked well for me. It did create a unique atmosphere, chaotic and alien, which couldn't have been replicated by design. As far as I'm concerned, it is, like Doom, a happy accident. When I play through games with a more focused design, I tend to get bored terminally by the sameness and genericness. Quake's haphazard mixture has character.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 12:28
|
|
|
More people should play Unreal 1 after Quake 1, it's great and has the same haphazard mishmash. Fight in muddy jungles! Blast your way through snakes in a water temple and marvel at a four-breasted goddess! Toss Skaarj into boiling lava in their own mine! Fight through claustrophobic shipwrecks and in Colosseums! Wander through ruined villages! Ascend into the sky and into a floating city! (Gospel music and xenophobic neocon cult leader optional.) Visit a castle! Take a trip into the castle's dungeon and fight a demon in the middle of a volcano! Follow a semi-interesting story through badly-spelt logs! It really sort of is like Myst with Guns. This game needs a remake, and it would look godly if someone built it on the Unreal 4 engine. (Yes, I know it's not out, yet, but that's where all the cool kids will go. Sadly, current-gen Epic are cowards about PC piracy and seem to like making custom model makers' lives hard.) If you goon don't want to shell out a few bucks for it, gently caress you. (There's a port to UT2004, but it's really kind of wonky. There's cutscenes, a few minor script changes, and a really weird hub level that mashes together the mines and the Water Temple in a really bizarre way.) Don't ever use the razorjack, by the way.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 12:37
|
|
|
JackMackerel posted:Don't ever use the razorjack, by the way. The Razorjack is arguably the most effective weapon by far, to the point where it's kinda broken. You just have to aim exclusively for the head and hit reliably to make it effective. The alt fire, though, is almost totally useless.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 13:20
|
|
|
JackMackerel posted:(There's a port to UT2004, but it's really kind of wonky. There's cutscenes, a few minor script changes, and a really weird hub level that mashes together the mines and the Water Temple in a really bizarre way.) They salvaged alot of the Unreal beta stuff for Return to Na Pali, but someone called Lightning Hunter actually worked the missing maps into RTNP and created an ultimate edition of sorts, whilst also fixing a few ugly bugs. Definitly give it a go if you've never checked out the beta stuff or RTNP.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 15:13
|
|
|
Buff Skeleton posted:The Razorjack is arguably the most effective weapon by far, to the point where it's kinda broken. You just have to aim exclusively for the head and hit reliably to make it effective. Problem is, I was engaging Skaarj at a point where their autododge triggered every time, and getting any closer would just warrant use of the flak cannon, which did the job much more effectively. Granted, I'm betting it's because the Razorjack is almost-melee, in which case, I'm spoiled by the faster saw rate in Unreal Tournament, so that's probably why I hate it. (The flak cannon is the best gun in every Unreal, all Unreals. Except Unreal II. gently caress Unreal II.)Jblade posted:A small bit of Trivia - originally the Mines and the temples were whole maps, rather than being split into two. Unreal was actually to have a HUB system - you had to go through both maps to activate a machine in the first map to go further. It was pretty cool, but it's clear they cut the maps into two for performance reasons for older PCs. There was also quite alot more Quake-style levels in the game, but these were understandably cut (As much as I love Unreal, my least favourite map is the Cellars one as it felt too abstract and Quake like compared to the other levels in Unreal being modelled after places. That and it was put in such a weird loving place, right near the end of the game) I saw the cut hub level - it's pretty neat. It's nothing like it is in the UT2004 port, though - there's a hole in the wall where a dead end normally is that leads to the Chiza Water Temple entrance, and there's some sort of weird elevator thing mashed into the storage room outside of where you first encounter a Manta that leads to the level beyond Chiza. I agree with you on the Cellars at Dasa - there was something really annoying about that level I couldn't place my finger on, but it was just... too cramped, I guess? And had lots of annoying backtracking and no indication of where to head to. I'm about halfway through Return to Na Pali, and it's kinda amateurish, but still pretty good. The Marines are hard as hell, though. Thanks for the link - I'm going to give it a shot and restart my return to Na Pali. JackMackerel fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jun 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 15:43
|
|
|
TerminusEst13 posted:Have you put it in the Skins folder? I just tried that (at your suggestion), and now I can't tell if it is working or not. I tested it in the /skins folder with the Freedom Ultimate wad, the real Ultimate Doom wad, and Chex Quest. Nothing seems to have changed... Maybe my opengl filters are already set to a level where any additional (these textures are the only "additional" stuff I have) high definition stuff would be impossible to detect. There are also no screenshots on the DHTP site. Did I just give myself a virus? This was an April Fool's Day joke that nobody ever took down, isn't it? Is this one of those mods that everyone downloads but nobody complains about because then it would involve admitting to the world that you got conned? edit: 
Supreme Power fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Jun 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 18:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 19:38 |
|
|
GOG is having some sort of crazy sale where most of everything on their catalog is discounted. Notably, you can get Alan Wake and American Nightmare together for $5. Painkiller Black is $5 too. Pretty much all the old shooters (from Duke 3D to Blood, from Redneck Rampage to Serious Stam, and from Blake Stone to Blood Rayne) are $3. (They're also giving Torchlight away for free, but it's not really a shooter.) I mean, take a look. The only shooter that's not discounted here is some vertical schmup called Raiden Legacy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2013 18:13
|
|