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Magic Hate Ball posted:I should probably finish playing Gone Home before I ask this, but why do people get so upset about Gone Home? People have this weirdly narrow view of what constitutes a 'game' and once people wrote about the experience as a whole they came out of the woodwork to work themselves into a frenzy over what exactly a game is and why Gone Home doesn't fit that definition. Gamers are kind of a fascinating bunch who both want their 'art' to be taken seriously and also react violently against anything that might further the medium. They're incredibly insular in that really they just want acceptance for the things that they like and nothing else. Which is why when Ebert started his 'Are Games art?' thing, people were sending him Final Fantasy screenshots.
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Mar 18, 2015 10:19
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Final Fantasy IX is art. final Fantasy VIII is not.
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Mar 18, 2015 10:25
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That's the funniest goddamn thing to me. This 60-whatever man making a post saying "games are not art" gets his inbox flooded by angry twenty somethings earnestly arguing for the deep saga of Cloud Stryfe. Why the gently caress do they care what he thinks? Why do they think some rear end in a top hat on the internet is going to change his mind-----why do they want to change his mind, so he'll start adding a videogame sidebar to his reviews? What the gently caress do you care what Roger Ebert would think about Bioshock Infinite, the guy got upset from Aliens.
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Mar 18, 2015 10:27
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The basic trouble is that most people incorrectly define 'art' as 'a thing I like'.
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Mar 18, 2015 10:28
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The sort of assignation we've made of the word "art" to "quality" is pernicious because, I mean, my lovely sketchbook stuff is art, probably not GOOD art, but it's worse to tell someone what they're making ISN'T art as opposed to merely BAD art. Art comes from artifice, you know, creating something----if you made a thing, you've joined the esteemed ranks of creators. We ought to encourage people to think that way and not like, well, I made this video game, haha, it's a crappy little thing it's not ~*ART*~ but you know.
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Mar 18, 2015 10:37
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I loved when they were championing Shadow of the Colossus as pure Art, because it was really pretty I guess? Meanwhile the whole game is "I, an obviously super-evil guy, need you to go kill these bosses that have parts of me so that I can rule the world" and you get more and more xXxdarksephy420xXx every kill, just this awful typical video game/anime poo poo for like 20 hours. Oh and the bad guys name is Nimrod spelled backwards. I guess if you REFERENCE art, (literature), you're totally making art, right? edit: I think he changed his stance to "video games aren't art YET", which seems to go along with the idea that yes, of course, someone created something, so it's art, but is it really worth championing as a new art form if all they're doing is telling really lovely generic stories so far. Quad fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 10:44
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Quad posted:Just watched My Neighbor Totoro for the first time... What do people feel about all the "but it's really about these murders/ Suicides" thing? I mean, it's beautiful, adorable, a great little movie, but also the spider cat bus thing is really sinister and why is she just getting on that bus DON'T GET ON THAT BUS LITTLE GIRL JESUS gently caress. It's based on dumb ARG logic like "the hospital's address is only one number away from the hospital in the town where the girls died, WOOOOO" and even some outright fabrications like whether the lost shoe is actually May's after all (it isn't, they look different) or that the soot sprites are traditional spirits associated with death (they aren't, Ghibli invented them.)
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Mar 18, 2015 10:48
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"In matters that concern themselves or their own constitution the Spartans are quite remarkably good; as for their relations with others, that is a long story, but it can be expressed shortly and clearly by saying that of all the people we know the Spartans are most conspicuous for believing that what they like doing is honourable and what suits their interests is just."
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Mar 18, 2015 11:07
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Sparta actually got the exact fate it deserved, which was to be completely ignored by the rest of the world until they faded away.
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Mar 18, 2015 11:07
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:like whether the lost shoe is actually May's after all (it isn't, they look different) They look different to us, the viewer, seeing things chiefly from Satsukis perspective, though. Maybe they aren..... Oh poo poo its me I'm the crazy guy making up fan theories noooooo
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Mar 18, 2015 11:13
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Quad posted:I loved when they were championing Shadow of the Colossus as pure Art, because it was really pretty I guess? Meanwhile the whole game is "I, an obviously super-evil guy, need you to go kill these bosses that have parts of me so that I can rule the world" and you get more and more xXxdarksephy420xXx every kill, just this awful typical video game/anime poo poo for like 20 hours. Oh and the bad guys name is Nimrod spelled backwards. I guess if you REFERENCE art, (literature), you're totally making art, right? Hey man don't knock Shadow of the Colossus that game was rad 
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Mar 18, 2015 11:23
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Harime Nui posted:That's the funniest goddamn thing to me. This 60-whatever man making a post saying "games are not art" gets his inbox flooded by angry twenty somethings earnestly arguing for the deep saga of Cloud Stryfe. Why the gently caress do they care what he thinks? Why do they think some rear end in a top hat on the internet is going to change his mind-----why do they want to change his mind, so he'll start adding a videogame sidebar to his reviews? What the gently caress do you care what Roger Ebert would think about Bioshock Infinite, the guy got upset from Aliens. Because they want to convince their dad that the thing they like is cool.
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Mar 18, 2015 11:40
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Quad posted:edit: I think he changed his stance to "video games aren't art YET", which seems to go along with the idea that yes, of course, someone created something, so it's art, but is it really worth championing as a new art form if all they're doing is telling really lovely generic stories so far. Yeah in fairness to Ebert he was actually pretty flexible on his stance, and wrote favourably about those people who actually took the time to try and discuss it with him instead of sending him screenshots of Games, or that Final Fantasy moved them to tears. It's annoying that it was sort of seen as an old man trolling when he seemed to honestly engage with people about it. Of course, the problem is that the argument is so ill-defined anyway. What, really, is Art? There are people who will claim that all movies are art while others will say that actually only some are. If it's such a nebulous concept then who's to say what qualifies something to be art? If performance art - which can involve interaction by the audience - counts, then couldn't video games?
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Mar 18, 2015 11:59
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Sometimes video games are fun.
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Mar 18, 2015 12:06
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I don't care either way, but it's dead fun to wind people up who do.
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Mar 18, 2015 12:20
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Quad posted:I loved when they were championing Shadow of the Colossus as pure Art, because it was really pretty I guess? Meanwhile the whole game is "I, an obviously super-evil guy, need you to go kill these bosses that have parts of me so that I can rule the world" and you get more and more xXxdarksephy420xXx every kill, just this awful typical video game/anime poo poo for like 20 hours. Oh and the bad guys name is Nimrod spelled backwards. I guess if you REFERENCE art, (literature), you're totally making art, right? There's nothing typical about Shadow of the Colossus, unless you think a Wikipedia summary is the same as playing it.
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Mar 18, 2015 12:25
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The only thing I hold against Shadow of the Colossus is the way every artsy indie game now has to about playing videogames.
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Mar 18, 2015 12:32
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The only thing more tedious than watching someone play a video game is listening to people talk about a video game.
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Mar 18, 2015 12:35
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Noxville posted:The only thing I hold against Shadow of the Colossus is the way every artsy indie game now has to about playing videogames. Like, as much as I like Hotline Miami et al, the only thing that games seem to pull out of the bag is this meta idea of 'You're playing a game'. It's like alright, I appreciate you're doing something different but it's becoming a little too much of a crutch now. Despite how I feel about the game as a whole, I did like it when Spec Ops aggressively forced the point though.
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Mar 18, 2015 12:39
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Spec Ops was really really good, but, I did buy it on sale, idk how I'd feel about it if I'd payed full price.
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Mar 18, 2015 12:59
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Noxville posted:The only thing I hold against Shadow of the Colossus is the way every artsy indie game now has to about playing videogames. Yeah, luckily its much more substantial than that.
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Mar 18, 2015 13:12
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I am enjoying the hell out of Dishonored. A little girl needs to be rescued and a kingdom needs to be set right. And I'm the man to do it!
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Mar 18, 2015 13:41
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DrVenkman posted:Like, as much as I like Hotline Miami et al, the only thing that games seem to pull out of the bag is this meta idea of 'You're playing a game'. It's like alright, I appreciate you're doing something different but it's becoming a little too much of a crutch now. Despite how I feel about the game as a whole, I did like it when Spec Ops aggressively forced the point though. Fewer games should take the Spec Ops approach of "wow, you sure are a bad person for playing video games" and more should take the Saints Row IV approach of "video games rule because they let you do ridiculous, crazy things you can't do anywhere else."
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Mar 18, 2015 13:59
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Harime Nui posted:I am enjoying the hell out of Dishonored. A little girl needs to be rescued and a kingdom needs to be set right. And I'm the man to do it! I think 'Dishonoured' almost gets so much right, but the arbitrary all or nothing moral choices in games really bring them down. It's an incredibly fun game though, and I had a great time going complete stealth and not killing anyone. X-Ray Pecs posted:Fewer games should take the Spec Ops approach of "wow, you sure are a bad person for playing video games" and more should take the Saints Row IV approach of "video games rule because they let you do ridiculous, crazy things you can't do anywhere else." I figure there's room for both. I think I liked Spec Ops because it didn't half-heart that approach and even the loading screens goad you, but I think it's because it stands out against a sea of 'You're playing a video game...get it?' type narratives. However, Saints Row 2 is the best.
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Mar 18, 2015 14:09
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Man I just discovered the irrationally irritating movie moments thread in PYF.. Jeeesus 
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Mar 18, 2015 14:10
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X-Ray Pecs posted:Fewer games should take the Spec Ops approach of "wow, you sure are a bad person for playing video games" and more should take the Saints Row IV approach of "video games rule because they let you do ridiculous, crazy things you can't do anywhere else." saints row also did the same "oh you're a bad man" take
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Mar 18, 2015 14:13
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Quad posted:I loved when they were championing Shadow of the Colossus as pure Art, because it was really pretty I guess? Meanwhile the whole game is "I, an obviously super-evil guy, need you to go kill these bosses that have parts of me so that I can rule the world" and you get more and more xXxdarksephy420xXx every kill, just this awful typical video game/anime poo poo for like 20 hours. Oh and the bad guys name is Nimrod spelled backwards. I guess if you REFERENCE art, (literature), you're totally making art, right? Naw, Ebert Conceded that he pretty much didn't know what he was talking about and didn't want to know what he was talking about. Like he acknowledged that maybe they could be art, but he also also acknowledged that he really didn't like video games very much and he felt he had way better things to do than put in the effort it would take to determine if they were art or not, which is a respectable stance. I never get why people get so derisive at the idea that video games could potentially be art. Like, as others have pointed out, SotC sort of rules.I'm not saying it's the greatest expression of art that's ever come out of humanity (that's obviously Journey) but that doesn't mean that it isn't art. Hell, ignoring SotC for a second, something being typical and bad does not exclude it from being art. I do like how you strawmanned the hell out SotC though. X-Ray Pecs posted:Fewer games should take the Spec Ops approach of "wow, you sure are a bad person for playing video games" and more should take the Saints Row IV approach of "video games rule because they let you do ridiculous, crazy things you can't do anywhere else." Video games should do whatever the hell they want. Also more video games already do what you want them to do rather than doing the spec ops thing.
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Mar 18, 2015 14:39
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Cool youtubes thing of the day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IaYJZ2Usdk If you watch this on the computer it's just a disorienting 360 shot stretched out, if you watch it on an android phone however you get this little VR experience where you control where you look by moving your phone. There's a whole playlist, but this is the only one I've seen so far that's more than "I mounted a camera to a thing I did" 360 videos
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Mar 18, 2015 14:43
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Man I just discovered the irrationally irritating movie moments thread in PYF.. Jeeesus Once upon a time, a version of that thread was in Cinema Discusso.
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Mar 18, 2015 14:53
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DrVenkman posted:People have this weirdly narrow view of what constitutes a 'game' and once people wrote about the experience as a whole they came out of the woodwork to work themselves into a frenzy over what exactly a game is and why Gone Home doesn't fit that definition. It's not because they want games to be treated the way we treat other artistic mediums. It's because they want validation. They want to be able to say "I didn't waste 20 straight hours playing Halo! I was experiencing art."
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Mar 18, 2015 14:56
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAHprLW48no I can't stop vomiting send help
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Mar 18, 2015 14:58
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Has anyone mentioned Adam Sandler playing Shadow of the Colossus in that movie where his wife died in 9/11?
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Mar 18, 2015 15:00
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TrixRabbi posted:It's not because they want games to be treated the way we treat other artistic mediums. It's because they want validation. They want to be able to say "I didn't waste 20 straight hours playing Halo! I was experiencing art." Yeah, the types that say they want games to be considered as art but are also gamergate types that get really mad when people actually analyze games and find bad things aren't interested in games as art beyond the monicker making them feel good.
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Mar 18, 2015 15:06
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Man I just discovered the irrationally irritating movie moments thread in PYF.. Jeeesus It's so goddamn funny.
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Mar 18, 2015 15:11
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Mechafunkzilla posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAHprLW48no This is literally a movie version of that one Futurama bit.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:01
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No see in the Futurama joke Pacman was a general and a goodguy, in this one it's just Pacman, and he's going to eat us all.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:08
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Quad posted:Just watched My Neighbor Totoro for the first time... What do people feel about all the "but it's really about these murders/ Suicides" thing? these people must have a very deep void in their life
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Mar 18, 2015 16:11
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:these people must have a very deep void in their life Welcome, back
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Mar 18, 2015 16:13
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On the topic of games, yesterday I was playing through the remake of Turtles in Time and while it's not a good game, I feel really bad for it. It's a game that's against impenetrable rose colored glasses. People play it and assume all the flaws in it are because they hosed up the remake but in reality most beat em ups from that era just have not aged well. Really, because the remake is in actual 3D, it plays better than the original. Of course the game wasn't helped by being really ugly and by also being based on the inferior arcade version rather than the improved SNES version but still, I feel that game does get a good amount of undue flack because it recreates a game that isn't as good as people remember it being and people prefer to believe that the game just hosed up rather than the game they remember might not be all that.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:17
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Literally The Worst posted:Welcome, back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA
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Mar 18, 2015 16:19
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