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Rambling Robot posted:Point taken. Why are you racist against big black retard dick. 
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Jan 26, 2016 21:45
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poorlifedecision posted:Why would you put someone in a mental institution because they thought something like FC worked when it didn't? It's not like she didn't understand the difference between right and wrong due to mental deficiency or defect. Even if she thought FC were real and it was just ouija boarding she still sexually assaulted a guy in her care and in the end he never consented and never could consent. The crime is the same regardless of what she believed because she didn't have a valid reason to believe it. A firmly held belief is not a defense and it isn't a mental illness. we shouldn't put that chick in a mental institution because that's her equivalent of the suicide bomber's 72 virgins
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Jan 26, 2016 21:59
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:we shouldn't put that chick in a mental institution because that's her equivalent of the suicide bomber's 72 virgins Or anti-vaxxers killing children.
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Jan 26, 2016 22:05
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Got BBC, so what?
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Jan 26, 2016 22:44
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mmmm posted:Absolutely fair point. I guess someone with an IQ > 90 completely falling for the ideomotor effect is right on the border for me, as far as sanity goes. She may not have any organic brain damage but she was delusional to the point where she effectively could not tell the difference between right and wrong. But if the psych evaluation says she's sane then off to jail she goes... no great travesty either way. Legally sane carries a different standard of evidence than the common use of the word sane. Someone earlier pointed out that she was able to contribute to her own defence, able to self advocate, wasn't suffering from command hallucinations etc. Yes, she would <probably> qualify for a mental diagnosis (I'm not in a position to determine what that was, delusion is a good guess, I'd query narcissistic or borderline PD, and I agree emphatically that her mental dysfunction is a primary causative agent to her crimes. That said, we don't put everyone who has this direct <dysfunction> --> <crime> relationship into a mental institution... See my example above about paedophiles; it's actually a good analogy because a lot of paedophiles without any other presenting pathology would still qualify for a diagnosis of a sexual paraphilia and would always present with psychological structures that permitted them to commit their crime (whether those structures consisted of profound cognitive distortions/ inappropriate information processes or consisted of profound sociopathy where they didn't consider or care about the impact of their crimes on their victim). We still put them in prison (we afford them treatment but the treatment is afforded in prison). They're talking about specialised prisons for sex offenders now that would have different living conditions, a more strict schedule of program treatments - this is due, both to the differing needs of sex offenders but also that sex offenders are often drawn from populations of less disadvantage, tend to have higher education, more job skills, and actually have a good chance of rehabilitation if they can be provided therapy in sufficient intensity (a separate prison also means that they're separated from other prisoner populations, both for their own safety but also because general offending groups have different psychological properties and different treatment needs than sexual offenders of all stripes). When we talk about secure mental health facilities, we're talking about people who have such profound mental disability that they either cannot contribute to their defence or they were bound in such a grip of episodic mental illness that they were <incapable> of distinguishing between right and wrong. Saying <this person> thought her behaviour was right doesn't meet the sort of threshold the court has for capability - it's possible that, with sufficient discussion, or with appropriate research, or training, maybe she could have overcome these belief structures she had. She presents as a reasonable enough person to be able to weigh up evidence and make decisions sufficient to keep herself employed so the court presumes that she had the capacity to reason through this but choose not to (a sort of criminally negligent wilful ignorance). When the court deems someone "insane" because they couldn't differentiate between right and wrong, they think things like command hallucinations, where the offender perceives a higher power that they cannot resist is telling them to do something, or a PTSD-induced delusion where an offender perceives someone as about to imminently attack them. The actual facilities that house these sort of offenders are psychiatric facilities. They house schizophrenics and people with severe bipolar, PTSD, profound mental retardation... Someone who was a former university professor, who, outside of this incident, was able to hold a job, contribute to her own defence in her trial, maintain a marriage etc etc... The sorts of people who end up in these facilities typically have dynamic and multiple disadvantages that long preceded their placement there. It's simply not the role of a secure facility to ameliorate <these> sorts of problems and I think placement in a facility would end up being unhelpful as they'll be unable to match her treatment needs with the treatment options available there.
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Jan 26, 2016 22:57
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I'm generally all for criminal justice solutions that are not prison qua prison. I just don't see why Stubblefield deserves any better treatment than anybody else. Many rapists have the subjective belief that their victims were consenting. She's just part of that pack. As far as ethics go, there is no material difference between her and a garden variety pedophile who thinks that he should run off with a 10-year-old. Her pseudo-activist language is no more substantive - let alone persuasive - than the religious language of a cultist, like that fuckboy from Colonia Dignidad. It's all just a bunch of self-serving twaddle.
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Jan 26, 2016 22:59
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Yeah, she's just a pedophile-type with fancy language, it's not uncommon. Ugh. It's funny, her letter was meant to endear her, but actually it makes her seem far more insidious than even the NYT article.
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Jan 26, 2016 23:16
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Guys, would you stop calling the integrity of this upstanding professor into question? According to this academic journal article that she wrote, that's HATE SPEECH: http://dsq-sds.org/article/view/1729/1777
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Jan 26, 2016 23:23
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Orange Sunshine posted:She's not a narcissist. At least, not as far as we know. Nor do we know that she has any problems with empathy or respect for others. I'll admit that I have no end of smug self-satisfaction to piss all over this case with, but it's mostly because of her PhD in ethics and I'd like to address your defense specifically (which you might want to note can be applied to ephebephiles if that worries you). What I'm hearing, in essence, is that it wasn't her fault that she was self-deluded, and that's why she shouldn't be found guilty. However, she was licensed to provide this therapy, which is supposed to be some kind of promise of competence, but I'm no lawyer. If the FC certification process doesn't cover the risk of self-delusion, then perhaps the certifying agency has some liability as well. But the fact remains that even if the guy were not paralyzed, and willingly had sex, it is an abuse of the patient-therapist relationship and nonetheless was clearly against consent law in a way that she cannot deny knowing the whole time. Doesn't mean prison improves society, but she absolutely knowingly did a crime.
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Jan 26, 2016 23:30
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I think it's obvious at this point that Orange Sunshine saw in this woman an example of a chick that he might actually have a chance of scoring with, and felt compelled to white knight her. Jokes on him, though - Orange Sunshine will never score.
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Jan 26, 2016 23:57
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staberind posted:Sorry, I was too busy wrestling with the horrors and conundrums of whiteness, as you do, to pay much attention to the rest, her husband is possibly the most cucked man alive atm. Oh yeah, the husband sounds REEEEAL salty in that letter to the court. And who wouldn't be? He thought his wife loved him for who he was, a talented classical musician. Little did he know she was just out on a quest for the most disadvantaged man she could find. Starving artist? Good in a pinch, real needy. Black man who can't control his basic motor functions, can't communicate without her? Jackpot. twerking on the railroad fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 00:42
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i just wanted to thank Serrath for his insights in this thread because they're a whole lot more educated and intelligent than anything i can come up with
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Jan 27, 2016 01:42
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Serrath posted:Depends what your goal is... mister f
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Jan 27, 2016 01:54
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phasmid posted:I ask because you sound like you know a thing or two about (abnormal) psychology and I was wondering what the root of this dysfunction is. It seems like she just enjoys having power over someone's life and doesn't really care at all about consequences. Iirc, those are two giant red flags for psychopaths. You're a more forgiving soul than me if you pity her, but I can't even imagine what her damage is that she would build a career and a family and a practice and a life only to throw it away for some bizarre infatuation. I missed this post. Okay, I know a few things about abnormal psychology but the more you know, the more you recognize how spurious making specific presumptions about someone is without being able to interview them yourself and collect data from numerous sources. I've tried to keep my posts vague because I really don't know what is going on for her. Does she enjoy having power over people? Maybe - that would certainly provide explanation for this behaviour. I think a more parsimonious explanation, though, is that she saw herself as a savior figure... she may have simply wanted the adoration and recognition afforded to other therapists who have worked with profoundly disabled individuals and made progress that other therapists felt was impossible. The fact that her husband noted her view that she compared herself to Anne Sulliven (the teacher who worked with Helen Keller) is actually really insightful and I can picture a scenario where one's desire for this sort of fame and recognition might be enough impetus to maybe accept a slightly lower standard of evidence or take more risks that you wouldn't otherwise take. From her writings, it sounds like she envisioned a world where their relationship would form some kind of exemplar case and that her status as a disability advocate would be elevated by her relationship with him - she would be the person who found such a depth of communication which someone believed to be incommunicable that she fell in love and engaged in a consensual romantic relationship. If this relationship could be accepted by this person's parents, the courts, her school, it would vindicate her and would certainly earn her place among the who's-who of disability therapists. I certainly think it would make for a compelling story if he could be found to be this highly literate person she describes; it would be one of the most profound things to happen to this field in decades and would probably trigger the re-examination of a lot of now-discredited theories about communication. But this is all supposition on my part. She could just be a garden variety sexual predator with a specific attraction to the disabled and may have a number of troubling cognitive distortions and beliefs about consent and the accuracy of FC... It's impossible to know without exmaining her; maybe she is just an opportunistic rapist and the FC explanation/discussion about consent is an ad-hoc one that she hoped would create an earnest defense for her actions. When I posted before, that her conduct through this (before, during, and in statements and letters after) mirrors the trajectory of many child sex offenders, I wasn't kidding - a lot of paedophiles buy into their own explanations about how natural their behaviour is and a lot of maladaptive beliefs about the sexuality of children and teenagers such that they're caught after being in relationship with minors and then "come out" to the minor's parents on the expectation that if they can sufficiently explain their theories and demonstrate to the parents that this love is "real", that they will be accepted and not have to remain clandestine.
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Jan 27, 2016 02:26
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Stinky_Pete posted:I'll admit that I have no end of smug self-satisfaction to piss all over this case with, but it's mostly because of her PhD in ethics and I'd like to address your defense specifically (which you might want to note can be applied to ephebephiles if that worries you). As I recall, her formal FC training was just a weekend workshop. She was not a registered therapist of any kind. She probably didn't receive any training at all about the ethics of a patient therapist relationship, because he wasn't her patient and she wasn't a therapist. She probably didn't even get minimal warnings about common therapeutic relationship pitfalls like transference, because no one expected that kind of problem when the clients are pants making GBS threads retards. Not an excuse though, she should at some point have had warnings about teacher/student relationships in her role as a professor, and been able to extrapolate that. I wonder if sexism contributed to the situation. No one really expects women to be a danger to men, even profoundly disabled men. Would the family have been as willing to leave their disabled daughter alone with a man? Would they have recognised things were getting weird?
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Jan 27, 2016 02:38
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Serrath posted:I missed this post. From what I've read I think it looks like she likely developed something of a messiah complex, largely fueled by her desire to be a heroic deliverer of the downtrodden. Civil rights was already a bit passe, and while she was active in that movement it wasn't an arena where she could really attain demigod status. Disabled people were a more fallow field within which to become an icon, and FC provided her with a way to achieve miracles through pretty much the literal laying on of hands. She really wanted this and to some extent needed this (as well as probably feeling entitled to it), and the victim in the case represented the focal point of this whole messianic trajectory. I see the rape as more the ultimate culmination for her seeking disabled saintdom than purely sexual exploitation, more symbolic than prurient (in her twisted mind). The inhuman exactitude of her handwriting suggests a highly structured and linear manner of thought, and it is just that kind of systematic thinking which can be most reinforcing of delusions. The Dunning-Kruger effect is most intense when people arrive at wrong conclusions through complex procedures - the more complicated and structured the process that led to a conclusion is, the more entrenched will be the belief that it is correct. Any cognitive dissonance would have been shouted down internally by her methodical approach and deep-seated emotional investment in being the lady Moses to lead the disabled into the Promised Land.
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Jan 27, 2016 02:40
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CaptainSarcastic posted:From what I've read I think it looks like she likely developed something of a messiah complex, largely fueled by her desire to be a heroic deliverer of the downtrodden. Civil rights was already a bit passe, and while she was active in that movement it wasn't an arena where she could really attain demigod status. Disabled people were a more fallow field within which to become an icon, and FC provided her with a way to achieve miracles through pretty much the literal laying on of hands. She really wanted this and to some extent needed this (as well as probably feeling entitled to it), and the victim in the case represented the focal point of this whole messianic trajectory. I see the rape as more the ultimate culmination for her seeking disabled saintdom than purely sexual exploitation, more symbolic than prurient (in her twisted mind). the inhuman exactitude of your writing suggests a highly advanced case of the 'tism
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Jan 27, 2016 02:45
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Lupin posted:the inhuman exactitude of your writing suggests a highly advanced case of the 'tism 
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Jan 27, 2016 02:49
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The handwriting is freaky, but I can't cosign the idea that it's proof of anything other than the fact that she has freakily neat handwriting. That said, she writes like how I imagine Dolores Umbridge would write. They say that a surprising number of war heroes are simply sociopaths who happened to make the right play on the right day. I wonder if the same is true for some activists, except with narcissism, etc. It's a roll of the dice whether or not the activist-narcissist plays for the "right" team" - some may play for conservatives, communists, whatever - for them, it's never about much more than themselves. The outsider might never know the difference. But, if you're married to them...or raped by them...then, well...
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Jan 27, 2016 03:22
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:mister f Lol
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Jan 27, 2016 03:23
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Angela Christine posted:As I recall, her formal FC training was just a weekend workshop. She was not a registered therapist of any kind. She probably didn't receive any training at all about the ethics of a patient therapist relationship, because he wasn't her patient and she wasn't a therapist. She probably didn't even get minimal warnings about common therapeutic relationship pitfalls like transference, because no one expected that kind of problem when the clients are pants making GBS threads retards. Not an excuse though, she should at some point have had warnings about teacher/student relationships in her role as a professor, and been able to extrapolate that. Haha yeah, or, you know, at some point during the six years of research she did for her PhD in Ethics. Sorry, I just can't get over that Philosophy department schadenfreude. Anyway, interesting point about the sexism. One might also wonder about the dynamic (I think the article already touched on it) between this educated white woman with a university office, and this black family who's entrusting their son to her care. Jerome Groopman's The Anatomy of Hope has a story like that, where a doctor the author was a resident under, basically withheld information from a black woman and her daughter about cancer because he decided that she wasn't equipped to handle it or something, with a really paternalistic vibe that robs patients of their agency. And it only took me one undergrad biomedical ethics course to get the message, lol.
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Jan 27, 2016 18:03
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Stinky_Pete posted:Haha yeah, or, you know, at some point during the six years of research she did for her PhD in Ethics. Sorry, I just can't get over that Philosophy department schadenfreude. they used to do that, not tell people they were probably going to die soon. they did it with valentino
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Jan 28, 2016 03:26
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Jimson posted:I'm just waiting for the final day of her trial when she stands up, and the judge gives his final sentencing. Then turns towards her, and in an attempt to etch out his own place in the media poo poo storm that will be this trial he ironically asks her, "And in your opinion as a professional, distanced from your personal experience, if you heard second hand about these acts... what would you call them?" 
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Jan 29, 2016 09:39
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katlington posted:they used to do that, not tell people they were probably going to die soon. they did it with valentino
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Jan 30, 2016 00:41
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We should start a fund to have thr pants shiyting retard visit strip clubs. Get pics of him with strippers and send to rapetastic retard in prison
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Jan 30, 2016 01:51
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in 20 years after she gets out her daughter is going to come to her with one last score, a plan to rape all the retards "every time i try to get out you pull me back in!" XMNN posted:george wallace of schoolhouse door fame didnt tell his wife she was dying of cancer because it might distract her from her campaign to replace him as governor, which they were doing to get around the term limit well hes lost my vote !
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Jan 30, 2016 02:33
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https://lareviewofbooks.org/essay/sexual-ableism/quote:ON JANUARY 15, former philosophy professor Anna Stubblefield, 46, was sentenced to 12 years in prison for the crime of sexually assaulting a man known as D.J., a 34-year-old disabled African-American. Stubblefield had claimed that D.J., who has cerebral palsy and cannot communicate verbally, had consented to sex. Indeed, her claim was that they mutually expressed their love for each other, she through her voice, and he through communication software using a technique called “facilitated communication” (FC). The court refused to consider the validity of FC, and Stubblefield’s fate was sealed.
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Feb 27, 2016 15:52
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I bet that lady jacked her son off.
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Feb 27, 2016 16:02
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Hadaka Apron posted:https://lareviewofbooks.org/essay/sexual-ableism/ That entire article seems to be hedging bets along a "truth in the middle" rout, nice. What a loving piece of poo poo- " Selene DePackh • 18 hours ago Thank you for this beautifully rational piece. " UGH e.: quote:David M. Perry is a disability rights journalist and associate professor of history at Dominican University. whelp KazigluBey fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Feb 27, 2016 |
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Feb 27, 2016 16:09
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Neurodiverse? I love this loving thread.
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Feb 27, 2016 16:19
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imo every fc advocate should be put in the loony bin without opportunities to contact the outside world
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Feb 27, 2016 16:21
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Tl/dr: I bumped a month old thread to post a wall of text. It says that people have moved from facilitated communication to independent typing, but mostly excuses quack science and attacks a judge for dismissing a pants making GBS threads retard from being a credible witness. Also the author has a retarded child or something.
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Feb 27, 2016 16:29
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https://lareviewofbooks.org/essay/sexual-ableism/ posted:Fighting sexual ableism doesn’t mean ignoring abuse or exonerating Anna Stubblefield. Instead, the fight requires being open to the possibility that D.J. is a man, that a woman could want him and he could reciprocate, and that the communication of sexual desire might not operate in neurotypical forms. I have a hard time imagining that attempting to physically escape from someone is an indicator of sexual interest regardless of how neurotypical a person is.
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Feb 27, 2016 16:37
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Yeah, for gods sakes if he did have full agency he was using it to say "no".
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Feb 27, 2016 16:54
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Airborne Viking posted:Tl/dr: I bumped a month old thread to post a wall of text. It says that people have moved from facilitated communication to independent typing, but mostly excuses quack science and attacks a judge for dismissing a pants making GBS threads retard from being a credible witness. Also the author has a retarded child or something. I'll admit that I should've spelled out that this is a horrible article.
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Feb 27, 2016 16:57
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Hadaka Apron posted:I'll admit that I should've spelled out that this is a horrible article. It was beautiful
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Feb 27, 2016 17:03
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Hadaka Apron posted:I'll admit that I should've spelled out that this is a horrible article. Yeah sorry for lashing out, i haven't had my morning drink and cranked one out yet mom and dad fight a lot fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Feb 27, 2016 |
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Feb 27, 2016 17:07
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Airborne Viking posted:Yeah sorry for lashing out, i haven't had my morning drink and cranked one out yet I know someone who can help you with that, all you gotta do is pretend you have cerebral palsy and wait twelve or so years.
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Feb 27, 2016 17:08
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Mega64 posted:I know someone who can help you with that, all you gotta do is pretend you have cerebral palsy and wait twelve or so years. That's long enough to develop my diaper scat fetish, where do I sign?
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Feb 27, 2016 17:11
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Hogge Wild posted:imo every fc advocate should be put in the loony bin without opportunities to contact the outside world I can communicate with them, they are alive and want to get their gently caress on.
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Feb 27, 2016 18:21
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