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Fangz posted:I don't think it's really terribly useful to try and define an "ideal" Peter Parker that a screen version has to emulate, everyone has a different idea of what they want. Personally I don't like Garfield not because he failed to be the Real Peter Parker or something, it's more that within the movies themselves, he was not the sort of hero I wanted to root for. He's just such an rear end in a top hat, and not in a fun way, and the movie didn't seem to even realise it. Even the whole OMG, he has to LET HIS GIRLFRIEND GO TO UNIVERSITY is such an egotistical dilemma. No, I don't think that made him relatable at all. I similarly found Maguire entirely too milquetoast. For as much as everyone likes that movie, the scene where he's getting dressed down by MJ for missing the play is painful when he could omit the Spider-Man bit from the scooter scene and say "Yeah, sorry, I got HIT BY A CAR so, you know. Also I still showed up, somehow, but your theater usher is, and I don't say this lightly or often, an absolute tool. Like he was making fun of me for getting hit by a car. You really ought to mention that guy to theater management." But instead he's just mumbling and looking at his shoes. Like I get that early Spider-Man was part of that nerd/jock dichotomy and was basically a superpowered Ziggy cartoon and everything, but those movies, at least to me, capture why that aspect of the character isn't that satisfying on screen.
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Oct 3, 2020 19:12
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I've voiced my criticisms about the Raimi Spider-Mans many times over the last 20 years, and they still remain. It feels like a movie version of the 60s cartoon. Parker being a wiener nerd who gets bullied because he's smart and likes science. Oh dear god! My job is basically herding teenagers and the idea that someone would get bullied because they are smart and are good at things that will make them successful in life is alien to them. Hell, even when I was a teen you were bullied more do to your economic status than anything besides just physical size. Mary-Jane's plots are terrible. She should have a life of her own outside of being Parker's girlfriend/object of desire but all her plots feel like some out of touch writer going "I need to add something for the ladies to enjoy" assume women don't enjoy action or excitement. Also she seems very passive, though that's more "womens role in action movies" at the time than anything. Though the biggest sin is the terrible Green Goblin costume that you can see the stuntman's mouth through the mask and its not moving when he's talking. They never intended these movies to be on DVD.
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Oct 3, 2020 19:32
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twistedmentat posted:L Parker being a wiener nerd who gets bullied because he's smart and likes science. Oh dear god! My job is basically herding teenagers and the idea that someone would get bullied because they are smart and are good at things that will make them successful in life is alien to them. And what worked with MJ was she totally didn't buy into anything that was going on. Pete could totally be rocking a skateboard, but I think it would have to be one with mismatched wheels while his peers are taking SelfDriving Teslas FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Oct 3, 2020 |
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Oct 3, 2020 19:51
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Right, the problem with those is that they are very heavily weighted towards the early Spider-Man stuff from the 60s and pretty much ignored anything that happened after that. And the first movie came out in 2002.
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Oct 3, 2020 19:53
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Lurdiak posted:
That was 70 years ago. This is what was wrong with the Raimi movies. They're insistent on following a tone that doesn't work if it's not 1965. What an outsider today is differs from what an outsider was then.
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Oct 3, 2020 20:00
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I would be all for the Sixties time bubble of the Raimi films if it wasn't for the awful Mary Jane plots. The way she's written makes so much more sense when you realize the purpose of literally every female character is to be an obstacle to Spider-man.
mycot fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Oct 3, 2020 |
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Oct 3, 2020 20:54
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What happened to you people? Tom Holland is a treasure! I honestly can't bring myself to have an opinion about anything that came before.
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Oct 3, 2020 20:58
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Jake Johnson is the best movie Peter Parker Spider-Man*. I will take no further questions. *I'm counting Spider-Man Noir as his own thing.
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Oct 3, 2020 21:01
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mycot posted:I would be all for the Sixties time bubble of the Raimi films if it wasn't for the awful Mary Jane plots. The way she's written makes so much more sense when you realize the purpose of literally every female character is to be an obstacle to Spider-man. If he had the balls to set it in the sixties the movies would have been much better.
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Oct 3, 2020 21:02
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Yvonmukluk posted:Jake Johnson is the best movie Peter Parker Spider-Man*. I will take no further questions. He was so good as depressed, washed up Parker.
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Oct 3, 2020 21:15
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Ugly In The Morning posted:He was so good as depressed, washed up Parker. He's basically his character from New Girl with superpowers. Jake Johnson is awesome.
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Oct 3, 2020 21:29
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mycot posted:I would be all for the Sixties time bubble of the Raimi films if it wasn't for the awful Mary Jane plots. The way she's written makes so much more sense when you realize the purpose of literally every female character is to be an obstacle to Spider-man. ...Well do you want 60s Spider-Man or not?
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Oct 3, 2020 21:33
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Sgt. Politeness posted:What happened to you people? Tom Holland is a treasure!
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Oct 3, 2020 21:38
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Basically the scene in Civil War where he's capably handling Winter Soldier and Falcon at the same time while also complimenting them on how cool their look and powers are is peak Peter for me. Earnest, wisecracking, genuinely impressed by the people he considers above him while clearly capable of playing at or above their level. By Far From Home they seem to have abandoned the wisecracking a bit, but I think that's because the movie wanted him a little somber post-Snap and death of Tony and so on, and just offloaded his quips to others. My guess is that in the third one he'll be back to them.
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Oct 3, 2020 21:52
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theironjef posted:Basically the scene in Civil War where he's capably handling Winter Soldier and Falcon at the same time while also complimenting them on how cool their look and powers are is peak Peter for me. Earnest, wisecracking, genuinely impressed by the people he considers above him while clearly capable of playing at or above their level. By Far From Home they seem to have abandoned the wisecracking a bit, but I think that's because the movie wanted him a little somber post-Snap and death of Tony and so on, and just offloaded his quips to others. My guess is that in the third one he'll be back to them. Plus 2 of the 3 fights in that movie are against what he thinks are elemental monsters that don't speak.
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Oct 3, 2020 22:10
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FilthyImp posted:Homecoming really nailed the aspect of social outcast that worked best for that version of Peter: he's poor, incredibly gifted, but doesn't have the social capital or means or indicators of wealth that Flash does so he's open to mockery in the pecking order. This is absolutely why I loved this iteration far more than the first two tries, I feel like it had more nuance and way more relatability. Peter isn't getting literally shoved into a locker because everyone at school thinks he's a loser, he's in Academic Decathlon and has a group of people he'd call friends but when he's at the party Flash still calls him out and we get the Penis Parker scene and Holland sells the kind of quiet dejection that a nerd who in the modern age would feel. I remember nothing about Garfield besides him being a borderline creepy stalker, and Maguire just makes me think of Don Knotts as mugging for the camera looking like a well meaning doofus.
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Oct 4, 2020 01:44
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Aphrodite posted:...Well do you want 60s Spider-Man or not? I know it's accurate but that doesn't mean I have to like it!
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Oct 4, 2020 02:14
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gently caress you guys hating on Toby you think anyone else could have pulled off the Burt Bacharach scene in 2 as well? 
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Oct 4, 2020 02:29
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Lurdiak posted:
I mean, anybody who is going to be playing Spider-Man in a Hollywood movie is going to have a nice haircut. They aren't going to contract Supercuts to come out and give everybody on set a $15 special or whatever.
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Oct 4, 2020 02:40
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twistedmentat posted:Mary-Jane's plots are terrible. She should have a life of her own outside of being Parker's girlfriend/object of desire but all her plots feel like some out of touch writer going "I need to add something for the ladies to enjoy" assume women don't enjoy action or excitement. Also she seems very passive, though that's more "womens role in action movies" at the time than anything. She ends every single movie of that trilogy captured by the big bad. I can't remember that ever happening in the comics (granted everything between Gwen dying and Secret Wars is a bit of a blind spot for me) Say what you want about TASM1/2 (and buddy I'll say plenty), but jesus Emma Stone was a breath of fresh air next to those. theironjef posted:Basically the scene in Civil War where he's capably handling Winter Soldier and Falcon at the same time while also complimenting them on how cool their look and powers are is peak Peter for me. Earnest, wisecracking, genuinely impressed by the people he considers above him while clearly capable of playing at or above their level. You forgot "annoying the poo poo out of his opponent by never shutting the gently caress up for five seconds"  also Yvonmukluk posted:Jake Johnson is the best movie Peter Parker Spider-Man*. I will take no further questions.
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Oct 4, 2020 03:06
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Spider-Man 2002 felt like a response to Batman 89. Super hero movies lived in that shadow until Iron Man kind of established the Marvel movie method.
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Oct 4, 2020 06:50
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I don't think anyone's going to defend how MJ was written in the Raimi films.
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Oct 4, 2020 06:56
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:She ends every single movie of that trilogy captured by the big bad. I can't remember that ever happening in the comics (granted everything between Gwen dying and Secret Wars is a bit of a blind spot for me) It was very "90s Hollywood writing for a female character". Less a character than a Mcguffin. MJ was never passive, she was always an active character. I think the best MJ is PS4 Spider-Man's MJ. She doesn't put up with Peter's poo poo AND doesn't just sit on the sidelines! MCU MJ is a very close second. Lurdiak posted:I don't think anyone's going to defend how MJ was written in the Raimi films. Honestly, her poo poo in SM3 is way worse than any of Parkers dancing. Like that was meant to make him look like a doofus, but we were supposed to be invested in her desire to be a actor. I also have no idea what the hell Gwen Stacy was doing in that movie too.
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Oct 4, 2020 08:05
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twistedmentat posted:It was very "90s Hollywood writing for a female character". Less a character than a Mcguffin. MJ was never passive, she was always an active character. I think the best MJ is PS4 Spider-Man's MJ. She doesn't put up with Peter's poo poo AND doesn't just sit on the sidelines! PS4 MJ is basically Lois Lane but to be honest that works just fine.
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Oct 4, 2020 08:06
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Wait people don't like the dancing?
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Oct 4, 2020 08:16
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Lurdiak posted:Wait people don't like the dancing? The dancing in both 2 and 3 are two of the only attempts at humor in those movies that land for me. Also, anyone who says they like the scene in 2 but not 3 is just virtue signaling. They're the same scene, even if you like the rest of 3 less.
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Oct 4, 2020 09:53
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Rhyno posted:A super hero film in the style of Detention has been my dream for years. I thought I was the only one! Imagine, say, Young Avengers or something done that way. Glad I’m not the only one who thought Garfield had potential vs Maguire’s weirdo and Holland’s “aw geez aw shucks” energy. The best Spider-Man movie so far, I think we can all agree, is probably Spider-Man 2, but for me they still haven’t nailed the hard to describe feel of the best Spider-Man comics: emotional warmth, exuberance, humour, with an undercurrent of tragedy and sense that this guy, who mostly is affable and funny, also has some edge to him and if you squint at him, in some moments, could be creepy and offputting cause he literally crawls on walls.
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Oct 4, 2020 10:13
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nemesis_hub posted:I thought I was the only one! Imagine, say, Young Avengers or something done that way. That's an odd way of spelling Into The Spider-Verse. Yeah, I said it.
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Oct 4, 2020 11:38
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Yvonmukluk posted:That's an odd way of spelling Into The Spider-Verse. You're not wrong. Spider-man 2 was a heavyweight in it's day but it hasn't aged well.
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Oct 4, 2020 11:44
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I....I haven’t seen it yet. I know, I know. How much prior Spider-Man knowledge does it require? Will my non comic reading only vaguely into the MCU family be able to get into it?
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Oct 4, 2020 12:07
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nemesis_hub posted:I....I haven’t seen it yet. None, and yes.
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Oct 4, 2020 12:13
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nemesis_hub posted:I....I haven’t seen it yet. Watch the first one. That's all you need.
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Oct 4, 2020 12:13
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Rhyno posted:You're not wrong. Spider-man 2 was a heavyweight in it's day but it hasn't aged well. Is that the one where Aunt May becomes inadvertently horrible?
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Oct 4, 2020 13:04
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Spider-Man 2’s pacing felt all kinds of messed up back in the day and it feels even worse now.
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Oct 4, 2020 13:06
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Open Marriage Night posted:Super hero movies lived in that shadow until Iron Man kind of established the Mighty Marvel Movie Manner. fixed  Rhyno posted:You're not wrong. Spider-man 2 was a heavyweight in it's day but it hasn't aged well. None of the Raimi movies have, at all. The Evil Dead But With Ock Arms hospital scene from 2 excepted, of course.
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Oct 4, 2020 13:38
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Yvonmukluk posted:Jake Johnson is the best movie Peter Parker Spider-Man*. I will take no further questions. Was waiting two whole pages for someone to finally say the truth. Jake Johnson probably has the best Peter Parker voice ever.
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Oct 4, 2020 13:42
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I mean, I bitch and moan a lot, but I don't like ragging too hard on some of these older films because, for all that we can see very pronounced flaws in hindsight, we wouldn't have a lot of the films we have today without being able to learn from the mistakes that had been made.
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Oct 4, 2020 14:12
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Between the Raimi films and Batman Begins, I will say it made it incredibly refreshing when Iron Man ended with him straight up going “I am Iron Man”. The secret identity stuff took up so much of those movies.
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Oct 4, 2020 14:14
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Conrad_Birdie posted:Was waiting two whole pages for someone to finally say the truth. Jake Johnson probably has the best Peter Parker voice ever.
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Oct 4, 2020 17:15
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To the extent that I hear a voice when I read Spider-Man, which honestly isn't much, it's still the guy from Spider-Man & his Amazing Friends.
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Oct 4, 2020 17:56
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