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Reiterpallasch posted:bart 1.0 wouldn't actually be a very hard fight except for ff13's complete unwillingness to explain anything to the player. it's actually one of my favorite boss fights in any final fantasy game though, it's really fun to play. There's also that glaring "This battle system is designed for 3 members, but were gonna make you use 2 members" that goes on for several hours that really fails to teach players what to do and you get your full party just in time for Bart 1 pretty much who expects you to know how to use the battle system.
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Apr 22, 2018 08:57
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I got the DS remake of IV one Christmas, ore whichever one it is that has Cecil. I remember the evil doctor character being insanely tough to beat. You could cheese him easily with elixir but trying to beat him without that was super rough
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Apr 22, 2018 11:55
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NES CoD can do Flare wave at the end of the turn and then Flare Wave at the beginning, usually resulting in Gameover of that shoot me in the head length dungeon. People poo poo on ATB but man it was so much better than what was before it. Shoenin fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 22, 2018 12:11
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I think XII might be the most underrated game and honestly one of the best in the series especially this Zodiac Age version. The story could do with some work with how slowly paced and seemingly detached it can be though. It's easily the most real feeling world though. I was looking at the box last night and as cool as the art is it struck me as weird that they chose Gabranth as the box art. VII has the meteor, VIII Squall an Rinoa, X has Yuna and so on. IIRC Gabranth is a big deal to Basch but he's not that much more recurring than like Ba'Gamnan. Also I can't remember any of Vayne's appearances except for his one right at the start. The judges were also majorly under utilised after Ghis or whatever. I haven't played the game since it first came out pretty much and over the years I've had fonder and fonder memories of it. The gambit system was a great change from the usual turnbased system and I'm glad they tried something new. I just got to the palace breakin and the biggest change they needed to make honestly was cutting out that terrible sunstone quest so you just go from the Rogue Tomato hunt to the breakin.
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Apr 22, 2018 15:29
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EmmyOk posted:I think XII might be the most underrated game and honestly one of the best in the series especially this Zodiac Age version. The story could do with some work with how slowly paced and seemingly detached it can be though. It's easily the most real feeling world though. I was looking at the box last night and as cool as the art is it struck me as weird that they chose Gabranth as the box art. VII has the meteor, VIII Squall an Rinoa, X has Yuna and so on. IIRC Gabranth is a big deal to Basch but he's not that much more recurring than like Ba'Gamnan. Also I can't remember any of Vayne's appearances except for his one right at the start. The judges were also majorly under utilised after Ghis or whatever. I haven't played the game since it first came out pretty much and over the years I've had fonder and fonder memories of it. The gambit system was a great change from the usual turnbased system and I'm glad they tried something new. I just got to the palace breakin and the biggest change they needed to make honestly was cutting out that terrible sunstone quest so you just go from the Rogue Tomato hunt to the breakin. Yeah they should have sent Penelo along for Rogue Tomato and cut the dumb sun stone nonsense altogether. Seems like the only reason it's there in the first place is to teach you that hey, team mates have a strategy script (that you can later control) and there's already the utterly forgettable Reks tutorial segment as well to teach you how to select Attack and Item etc. XII had a pretty much perfect battle system. Yeah XV's real time action game combat system is fun and all but that's not really a JRPG at that point, it's an action game with lots of FF theming. The fact that they bolted on that bizarre alternative Wait Mode system at seemingly the last minute during development indicates that they didn't really have the courage of their convictions either. Fister Roboto posted:I'd say Barthandelus 1 is a pretty strong contender. He's definitely the first actually challenging fight in the game. Prior fights just let you coast through with COM/RAV/MED, but Bart has a soft dps check, and one that a lot of people wipe to because they see him charging up a big move and they immediately turtle up. me
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Apr 22, 2018 16:01
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"Underrated" has lost all meaning if one of the best selling FF titles is called that, with the ps4 remaster selling millions
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Apr 22, 2018 16:52
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Tae posted:"Underrated" has lost all meaning if one of the best selling FF titles is called that, with the ps4 remaster selling millions Well-selling media can be considered underrated in a critical sense, depending on the context. FF13 sold very well, but it's also critically underwhelming to the point where I could definitely see people arguing with merit that it's underrated in some aspects. It's a bit more difficult with 12 since it has a lot more people championing it, but at the same time it doesn't really get talked about or fondly remembered in its own series the same way 4-10 do.
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Apr 22, 2018 16:59
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Tae posted:"Underrated" has lost all meaning if one of the best selling FF titles is called that, with the ps4 remaster selling millions Not really. Sure compared to most games it's a smashing success but compared to the other Final Fantasy mainline titles it's rarely ever listed as someone's top FF and the gambit system is often shat on. Mega64 posted:It's a bit more difficult with 12 since it has a lot more people championing it, but at the same time it doesn't really get talked about or fondly remembered in its own series the same way 4-10 do. yh yh
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Apr 22, 2018 17:08
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Pureauthor posted:Abyssal God from Etrian Odyssey 3.
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Apr 22, 2018 17:38
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EmmyOk posted:Also I can't remember any of Vayne's appearances except for his one right at the start. There's that one just after you reach Mt Bur-Omnisace where the whole tangle of political intrigue is resolved by Vayne killing everybody and the story shifts to "okay, let's nuke the bastard instead". Other than that and the literal end of the game, though, it's mostly other folks acting on his behalf.
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Apr 22, 2018 17:51
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One of the things that's really struck me about XII HD compared to the other 3D games is just how realistically and well done the characters are animated and voiced. In cutscenes, they walk and talk and react much more like real people. They don't go "EUAH?!" at each other or have over-the-top huge double takes, they just have (relatively) subtle body language tics and give each other raised eyebrows or widened eyes or shrugs when other stuff is being wierd or dumb.
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Apr 22, 2018 18:07
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EmmyOk posted:I was looking at the box last night and as cool as the art is it struck me as weird that they chose Gabranth as the box art. VII has the meteor, VIII Squall an Rinoa, X has Yuna and so on. IIRC Gabranth is a big deal to Basch but he's not that much more recurring than like Ba'Gamnan. Gabranth isn't just a big deal to Basch, though; he killed Ashe's father, effectively killed Vaan's brother, and while Vayne orchestrated the takeover of Dalmasca by the empire, it was his hand that actually did the deed. Also consider the fact that his backstory is all about his own homeland being subjugated by the empire, and now here he is helping the empire do the very same thing to Dalmasca and beyond. There's a lot more going on with him than arguably most of the other antagonists in this game, so I think it's really cool that he's the focus of the logo this time! I do agree with the rest of your post though, especially with how slowly the story is paced compared to the gameplay. XII is my favorite in the series but I didn't really get the full scope of the story until I went and watched a cutscene compilation.
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Apr 22, 2018 18:56
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Gabranth is the Darth Vader analogue in Final Fantasy: Star Wars Edition. That's why he is featured prominently
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Apr 22, 2018 19:56
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Gabranth also has a cool looking armor and is a judge. The threat of the empire was best symbolized by the judges, probably that's why they went for it.
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Apr 22, 2018 20:04
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DACK FAYDEN posted:...is a strong contender for literal worst JRPG boss ever, someone link the giant LP post that Dr. Fetus or whoever made with all his attack scripts, it's batshit crazy What's so bad about it? I never got into Etrian, so I'm curious to see just how bad it can be without being, like, a Last Rebellion boss or something.
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Apr 22, 2018 20:06
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I think the best example of NED being a top tier ball buster is when they put him into FF XIV. Dude just shits out status effects.
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Apr 22, 2018 20:16
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The Judges rules but they spent half the game doing their own thing nowhere near you until they show up and start throwing slaps. Also Vaan kind of sucks as a main character/POV. Tidus worked far better (even if you didn't like him) because he worked perfectly as the audience lens but also had actual attachment to the overall plot. If this is Star Wars then we're playing Wedge instead of Luke for some reason.
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Apr 22, 2018 20:18
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vaan is c3po, i thought this was known
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Apr 22, 2018 20:28
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:What's so bad about it? I never got into Etrian, so I'm curious to see just how bad it can be without being, like, a Last Rebellion boss or something. Basically, it: reads your inputs (and sets up absorption accordingly in the final phase) counterattacks all physical or elemental hits with a 6% chance per ailment to inflict every status ailment in the game has an invisible counter for the actions it's taken that is best incremented by triggering massive counterattacks Just a heapin' pile o' bullshit.
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Apr 22, 2018 20:32
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:What's so bad about it? I never got into Etrian, so I'm curious to see just how bad it can be without being, like, a Last Rebellion boss or something. The offense phase isn't that bad. The defense phase? Oh boy. Battle mechanics are turn-based where everyone inputs an action and then everyone goes in speed order (basic explanation). Defense form is a cheating rear end in a top hat that reads your inputs and sets up devastating counterattacks if you so much look at it funny. If you don't so much look at it funny, it'll heal for 10% hp. That's a lot. Oh, and phase changes are semi-random, so it can switch from offense to defense and obliterate your party with counters if it feels like it after you have input your moves for the round.
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Apr 22, 2018 20:53
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EmmyOk posted:The Judges rules but they spent half the game doing their own thing nowhere near you until they show up and start throwing slaps. Also Vaan kind of sucks as a main character/POV. Tidus worked far better (even if you didn't like him) because he worked perfectly as the audience lens but also had actual attachment to the overall plot. If this is Star Wars then we're playing Wedge instead of Luke for some reason. Having replayed the game recently I'd say Vaan ties things together a lot better than it seems, but it really needs the last part (Pharos and the final boss) to exemplify that. Until then his part of the story seems to flap loose and die a third of the way in as Ashe's takes over. He comes back in as a character right at the end, and legitimately so, I think.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:36
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Bruceski posted:Having replayed the game recently I'd say Vaan ties things together a lot better than it seems, but it really needs the last part (Pharos and the final boss) to exemplify that. Until then his part of the story seems to flap loose and die a third of the way in as Ashe's takes over. He comes back in as a character right at the end, and legitimately so, I think. It's a super long time since I played it and I really only remember up to maybe Bhujerba (first visit) clearly and then just random events etc. so I'm totally willing to trust you on this one. I do remember them rushing the final story summons though after huge gaps of time before Belias and Mateus. Really good worldbuilding, Rabanastre is one of the best fleshed out locations in an FF I've played.
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Apr 22, 2018 22:44
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EmmyOk posted:It's a super long time since I played it and I really only remember up to maybe Bhujerba (first visit) clearly and then just random events etc. so I'm totally willing to trust you on this one. I do remember them rushing the final story summons though after huge gaps of time before Belias and Mateus. Really good worldbuilding, Rabanastre is one of the best fleshed out locations in an FF I've played. Yeah, this is the first time I made it past Giruvegan so I was right there with you before now. He admits that his self-centered obsession with being a sky pirate was a way to hide from the war trauma and how much it hurt to see Rabanastre suffering, and his part in things after that gets framed as "representative of the people of Dalmasca supporting the fight and their Princess" rather than "bratty kid tagging along".
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Apr 22, 2018 22:53
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Basically, it: My god, I had no idea they put SNK boss syndrome in RPG's
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Apr 23, 2018 00:12
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Here's the big post that Dr. Fetus made with the mechanics. There are some crazy people who have killed the drat thing with a single character (plus its summons, in this case) and make it almost look easy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_C678FP5-U Regardless, you want to make sure your gear is setup to deal with their attacks and farm stat books from the FOEs that can drop them (lucky hammer is a godsend) and feed them to party members because that fight's just outright hateful towards the player and every little bit of help you can get, you want.
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Apr 23, 2018 01:12
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Bruceski posted:Giruvegan ugh Actually yeah maybe I'm missing something but Giruvegan is just an absolutely jaw droppingly stupid area for one simple reason: it is a hard check on whether you have the ability to resist or remove the Disease status or not. How do you do that in TZA? Well, not counting ribbons AFAIK there are four ways to avoid/remove Disease (Serum, Cleanse, Remedy Lore 3, Bubble), and you're not likely to run across any of them casually. Not even just Giruvegan either, a whole bunch of trash enemies start spamming Disease after that point.
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Apr 23, 2018 01:59
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Sapozhnik posted:ugh I didn't have an issue with that, the crystal afterward made me go cross-eyed. Even the non-maze part, something about the background. Pharos was even worse, I had to go have a lie-down after beating it.
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Apr 23, 2018 02:30
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Sapozhnik posted:XII had a pretty much perfect battle system. Yeah XV's real time action game combat system is fun and all but that's not really a JRPG at that point, it's an action game with lots of FF theming. The fact that they bolted on that bizarre alternative Wait Mode system at seemingly the last minute during development indicates that they didn't really have the courage of their convictions either. 13's combat system was better in every single way. Unless that also fails to meet your definition of jrpg
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Apr 23, 2018 02:47
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Sapozhnik posted:
XII had a worse version of the ATB system than X-2 and generally just worse mechanics than X. XIII and LR the came out and double poo poo on it.
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Apr 23, 2018 03:10
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XII's battle system is one of the most boring in the entire series and caused me bounce super hard off the game both times i've tried to get into it.
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Apr 23, 2018 03:11
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Imagine a game so slow and boring you have to play it at 4x speed just to make it tolerable
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Apr 23, 2018 03:34
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Imagine a game so slow and boring you have to play it at 4x speed just to make it tolerable Now make it worse by making the majority of your interaction with the mechanical systems writing If->Then statements. Now we're approaching true awful.
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Apr 23, 2018 04:02
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Now make it worse by making the majority of your interaction with the mechanical systems writing If->Then statements. I'm sorry that basic cause and effect logic hurts your tiny baby brain. Elephant Ambush fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 04:09
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LMAO how unbelievably stupid do you have to be to unable to figure out gambits? *punches self in eyeball* Ow! Why does my eye hurt?!?!?!
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Apr 23, 2018 04:11
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Who said anything about not figuring it out? It's just boring and unengaging. Then again, what can you expect out of someone who drops r-bombs in the year 2018.
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Apr 23, 2018 04:15
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I wish Xenoblade Chronicles had the Gambit system that twelve had. Rather we had that weird AI system that never worked well with certain characters.
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Apr 23, 2018 04:37
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Elephant Ambush posted:I'm sorry you're retarded I'm retarded because I don't find making gambits fun and 99% of the game can be ignored because the gambit system lets you make the game actually play itself outside of a handful of instances? Like I understand them, hell I use them, my point is the game play isn't engaging and the gambit system is designed to make you engage with it even less because it lets you solve the majority of encounters with a set of simple AI scripts you write in maybe 10 minutes. It's a combat system who's main gimmick is a tool to get you to not actually play the game, mostly because the individual combats (and most boss fights) tend to be largely boring, tedious affairs that wouldn't require much effort or thought to get through. You can tell they designed the game around you using gambits because every manual menu action is flipping through some of the most cumbersome menus the franchise has spit out. Can you not read? No said anything about not understanding them or them being difficult at all. Maybe try and actually read posts before desperately trying to get an own in cause you just look like an idiot. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Apr 23, 2018 |
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Apr 23, 2018 04:43
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The post you quoted is even directly replying to someone talking about the remasters x4 speed up function, something added because the game is a slow mess without it. You can use the x4 speed up function for most of the game because largely speaking the game kind of plays itself and you can ignore most encounters and that's what I was referencing when making a joke about how Setting up if-Then statements is the most interaction you have with the game.
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Apr 23, 2018 04:57
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most jrpg gameplay can be ignored so im fine with gambits. the fast forward button being added to all these games now is funny though. just a tacit admission that there's so much crap in the game that doesn't actually matter. why don't more games have chrono cross' slow down button..
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Apr 23, 2018 04:58
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seiferguy posted:I wish Xenoblade Chronicles had the Gambit system that twelve had. Rather we had that weird AI system that never worked well with certain characters. Heal me you welsh cat woman
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Apr 23, 2018 05:02
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