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Arquinsiel posted:Kind of hitting the problem of fighting in 40k there at all it seems. There's no reason to take a ship when you can just blow it up. Same way there's no reason to invade a planet, unless McGuffin lives there. The primary role of marines is amphibious assault, so having most espatier missions be about planetfall makes perfect sense to me. Boarding is something marines are good at and trained for but it's not their primary combat role. As far as planets go: planets, and the ancient cities and tech they contain, and to a lesser extent the people that live there, ARE the McGuffin. That's even more true for the ships. The objective of most semi-rational fighting forces in 30k and 40k is "secure military assets and nonmilitary assets that can make more military assets." In stark contrast to hard sci-fi, few factions can survive without populated worlds and captured ships, so annihilation is a last resort. I don't really understand why the Necrons and Dark Eldar do what they do but the Dark Eldar aren't exactly rational. Everyone else would be signing their own death warrants (usually by starving themselves) if they just blew up everything. Edit: a word about ships--one detail that BFG nailed in that I really like is that the ships are so impossibly big and made of materials that are so impossibly resilient that most of the time, killing a ship is actually about killing 95% of the people aboard, not actually hitting the reactor or something like in Star Trek. This means that usually you can blaze away with macrocannons without a care, knowing that the really valuable stuff will probably be there for you to pull from the gutted wreck a hundred years after the battle is over. Physicists and BL novel writers all seem to prefer gigantic explosions, but I for one really like that ~72% of dead ships are hulks, not just massive debris clouds. Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jul 28, 2014 |
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Jul 28, 2014 16:40
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Sulecrist posted:The primary role of marines is amphibious assault, so having most espatier missions be about planetfall makes perfect sense to me. Boarding is something marines are good at and trained for but it's not their primary combat role. Well, Dark Eldar need suffering to keep Slaanesh off their backs, and I guess you get more suffering per capita by flaying people alive and stuff than you do from bombarding their planet from orbit.
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Jul 28, 2014 16:51
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Could it be said that Empy decided to refrain from making a scientific genius primarch because he kept that to himself? Nothing could rival the mind of The Big E in terms of science, but can you imagine a legion and primarch that was like Magnus and 1k sons, but with science? The amount of tinkering with the gene seed and such. Heretical.
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Jul 28, 2014 16:58
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vigorous sodomy posted:Could it be said that Empy decided to refrain from making a scientific genius primarch because he kept that to himself? Nothing could rival the mind of The Big E in terms of science, but can you imagine a legion and primarch that was like Magnus and 1k sons, but with science? The amount of tinkering with the gene seed and such. I thought Magnus specifically was the science primarch. I'm reading A Thousand Sons now and it's all scholar this DNA that. I figured it's more that the ultimate expression of intellect and understanding in the 40k universe is being able to see everything in the universe and pull Titans apart with your brain. A science primarch without psychic powers would just be like The Rock playing Doctor Who.
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Jul 28, 2014 17:05
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Arquinsiel posted:Kind of hitting the problem of fighting in 40k there at all it seems. There's no reason to take a ship when you can just blow it up. Same way there's no reason to invade a planet, unless McGuffin lives there. Except blowing up a ship is hard and boarding actions are really common and effective. This is magic space technology, it works however the authors say it works and so it works in whatever way has the coolest fights and sells the most toys. Just like something like Dune where everything has magic forcefields so everyone has to have swordfights. Not yo mention the fact that "just nuke everything" has a few notable drawbacks as a strategy if you care about the place you're fighting over. Probably one reason imperial ships have massive crews of chain gangs instead of automation is because boarding actions are so common it's always useful to have lots of extra bodies on hand to fight plus it's easier to just grab more men instead of getting tech-priests to fix everything after it breaks. And of course (the real reason) because it's the age of sail Royal Navy in Space.
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Jul 28, 2014 17:12
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vigorous sodomy posted:Could it be said that Empy decided to refrain from making a scientific genius primarch because he kept that to himself? Nothing could rival the mind of The Big E in terms of science, but can you imagine a legion and primarch that was like Magnus and 1k sons, but with science? The amount of tinkering with the gene seed and such. The primarchs are war leaders not research scientists. Their purpose is to lead crusades by their magic charisma to kill aliens and either persuade or conquer human civilizations as quickly and efficiently as possible, not sit around in a laboratory for decades reinventing the wheel. That's why there's only engineer amd craftsmen primarchs. The emperor had his own amazing science team. A lot if them died becase of Magnus plus the war on Mars. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jul 28, 2014 |
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Jul 28, 2014 17:18
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vigorous sodomy posted:Could it be said that Empy decided to refrain from making a scientific genius primarch because he kept that to himself? Nothing could rival the mind of The Big E in terms of science, but can you imagine a legion and primarch that was like Magnus and 1k sons, but with science? The amount of tinkering with the gene seed and such. A primarch who tinker with his own gene seed, a shameful primarch. Honestly one closet theory I've always had is that part of being a space marine in the Heresy era is that you have a serious genetic-psychic link with your primarch, such that his moods and habits will influence yours even across vast distances. This is sort of referenced with the Iron Hands absolutely losing their poo poo when Ferrus Manus dies since that connection was brutally and suddenly taken away. Likewise the psychic feedback when Sanguinius gets K.O.'d that makes the Blood Angels lose THEIR poo poo. I like to think it's more than just trying to please daddy - I'd love to see the Blood Angels let loose in a more controlled fashion come the Battle for the Eternity Gate, when Sanguinius goes full-on Avatar of the Emperor's Wrath on the heretical army. I'd also pay hard cash for a void-fight between the Blood Angels and the World Eaters written by ADB as the Angels make their way to Terra, leading to an inconclusive confrontation between Angron and Sanguinius, interrupted by Khabanda as he tries to cheapshot Sanguinius only to be smacked down by both Primarchs since he interfered in their duel.
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Jul 28, 2014 17:19
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Cream_Filling posted:Except blowing up a ship is hard and boarding actions are really common and effective. VanSandman posted:Likewise the psychic feedback when Sanguinius gets K.O.'d that makes the Blood Angels lose THEIR poo poo.
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Jul 28, 2014 17:45
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One of the two could have been the engineer or scientist. I like the theory that one of the Primarchs made a world so technologically advanced that when the Emperor came to reclaim his son that he questioned why his people needed the Empire. They've survived on the fringe of the universe facing the horrors of the cosmos (imply early Nids or Necrons) and have survived. Their empire is unrivaled and above their "crusade". The ensuing war has the planet eventually ground under the combined fleet's might but at heavy loses and all the shiny tech is either destroyed or at a level that is far beyound the Priests of Mars ability to understand and was locked away in the vault that must never be unlocked. The other Primarch was the gambler who cheated Russ and Curze at cards and found out how little of a sense of humor his brothers have.
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Jul 29, 2014 08:29
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EyeRChris posted:One of the two could have been the engineer or scientist. With either of those it'd be hard to determine which one offended the other primarchs more. Speaking of shiny tech being destroyed, wasn't that the highlight of the Macharian Crusade? quote:The planet's population were hyper-advanced, and when Macharius arrived he said that they had "turned to the dark certainties of science, and created many new and wondrous machines". Even so, Macharius still had to conquer it. He was held at bay for two years until the planet finally succumbed to a redirected comet. "Of its secrets, nothing now remains" were the last words of Macharius on the subject 2 entire years of a single planet being assaulted by the full might of the million world Imperium going "who are these weirdos who keep attacking us? Business as usual for now, maybe they'll talk to us eventually" and this was 1/2 into M41, after the Tyranids, Tau, Necrons, etc have run roughshod over the Imperium for centuries. I picture a world of hyper advanced people who have passed the need for material goods and have reached technological singularity but prefer to retain mortal flesh for philosophical reasons putting up with constant attacks and finally when they see the comet coming their way decide "Yes, we have truly lived, let us embrace the great journey" Really, the second the Emperor would wake up he'd start catching up on human history, and even if he could stomach the Imperial cult once they get to Macharius he'd flip the table and say "gently caress it burn it down". pentyne fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Jul 29, 2014 |
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Jul 29, 2014 08:44
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EyeRChris posted:One of the two could have been the engineer or scientist. Peterbro was the inventor
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Jul 29, 2014 15:11
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Could one of the lost primarchs be a pariah blank? You can see why it would annoy the others and make them an outcast. Then again, the Emperor would have known that from the start. Plus why would he need blanks when there wasn't the same war on chaos and pskers back then?
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Jul 29, 2014 15:43
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I once hoped that Gharkull Blackfang, the Ork who almost defeated three legions during the Great Crusade, was a lost Primarch who somehow found himself on an Ork planet and just rolled with it. Likewise, I also liked the idea that Sigmar from Warhammer fantasy was a lost primarch, but now that it is known that Lorgar was once friends with both lost primarchs means that neither of my ideas hold much water.
Hot Dog Day #82 fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jul 29, 2014 |
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Jul 29, 2014 16:23
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:I once hoped that Gharkull Blackfang, the Ork who almost defeated three legions during the Great Crusade, was a lost Primarch who somehow found himself on an Ork planet and just rolled with it. Likewise, I also liked the idea that Sigmar from Warhammer fantasy was a lost primarch, but now that it is known that Lorgar was once friends with both lost primarchs means that neither of my ideas hold much water. If the Warlord of Ullanor was a primarch who found himself among greenskins that would be just the kind of stupid cool poo poo that 40k was founded on. So basically no chance in hell, I'm afraid.
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Jul 29, 2014 16:39
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Maybe one of the primarchs was a scientist and developed AI and thats why he had to be killed and expunged. Also none of the primarchs strike me as a scientist, espc not Magnus. Im really confused by people who have that impression of him here. He seems to me much more a philosopher or Renaissance man than pure scientist
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Jul 29, 2014 18:31
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Waroduce posted:Maybe one of the primarchs was a scientist and developed AI and thats why he had to be killed and expunged. In A Thousand Sons he's looking at the Space Wolves and can see their very genetic makeup, but you're right - I never got the 'scientist' vibe from him. He's more of a 'wizard did it' kind of guy. He's definitely more a philosopher and psyker than an outright scientist. At his level he's surpassed science. Someone like Mortarian lacks the flair to gaze into the warp, but you know he knows everything there is to know about chemistry. That said, all the primarchs are scientific geniuses when they turn their attention to it. They will all out perform anyone in any given task unless competing with one of their own brothers. In Raven's flight, Corax steps in to help the scientists unlock the genecode for the legion. He also works out the labrynth in his head (like Perturabo could). As Perturabo says, they all have the same gene-enhanced brain. Even Angron is a genius when his brain isn't being pulped by the nails. The Kahn may not beat Gulliman at regicide, but he'd be able to beat a 1000 'human' regicide masters at once while painting a picture that would be an absolute masterpiece compared to anyone else's work but Fulgrim and unlocking the mysteries of the Mechanicum - but his nature is to say "yeah, whatever - it's too nice a day for that poo poo, where's my bike? WOOOO!"
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Jul 29, 2014 19:09
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Which one of you dorks wrote this: http://www.amazon.com/Prisoner-52-S-T-Burkholder-ebook/dp/B00LOZEM8Q/ Hastur Sejanus is a 40k character, Mr. Burkholder.
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Jul 31, 2014 01:39
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VanSandman posted:Which one of you dorks wrote this: I dont think that its plagiarizing a character from HH. Hastur as a name, is a reference to Lovecraft and Sejanus was a typical name in roman times. The author just chose a referential name that coincidentally was referenced by another fictional universe.
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Jul 31, 2014 03:23
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Kharn_The_Betrayer posted:I dont think that its plagiarizing a character from HH. Hastur as a name, is a reference to Lovecraft and Sejanus was a typical name in roman times. The author just chose a referential name that coincidentally was referenced by another fictional universe. That specific combo though? I'm not saying it was deliberate - hell, I once came up with what I thought was a very clever plot for a book about a bunch of dudes who all got together to commit a conspiracy but it turned out they were all undercover except for one and they were all named after days to keep their identities hidden. Whoops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Was_Thursday It was probably subconscious, it happens to a lot of people.
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Jul 31, 2014 04:36
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Using either one on it's own would be totally understandable, but I think the usage of an old god from the Cthulhu mythos in conjunction with a mildly well-known Roman surname together is a bit of a leap too far to happen twice and have them be unrelated. It may not have been intentional but it's likely he's at least read the name before. e; fb
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Jul 31, 2014 04:38
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Sulecrist posted:I thought Magnus specifically was the science primarch. I'm reading A Thousand Sons now and it's all scholar this DNA that. I figured it's more that the ultimate expression of intellect and understanding in the 40k universe is being able to see everything in the universe and pull Titans apart with your brain. Magnus was the psyker primarch? The guy had a grasp of the warp second only the Big E himself, and warpstuff is the furthest from science as one can get. Unrelated, if the space woofs are space vikings, what can the luna woofs be related to? Both have wolf visages and symbology in their lore, but the space woofs took the viking schtick to the MAXXX.
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Jul 31, 2014 09:07
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vigorous sodomy posted:Magnus was the psyker primarch? The guy had a grasp of the warp second only the Big E himself, and warpstuff is the furthest from science as one can get. Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. Magnus at least professes to view warpcraft as the ultimate science. I'm a bit further in A Thousand Sons now though and I'm not convinced he believes it.
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Jul 31, 2014 13:19
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Well I think his flaw was his unbound and unending thirst for knowledge, regardless of the limits or cost, because due to pride, he thought he knew better than everyone else, everyone else be damned
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Jul 31, 2014 14:02
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vigorous sodomy posted:Magnus was the psyker primarch? The guy had a grasp of the warp second only the Big E himself, and warpstuff is the furthest from science as one can get. Luna Wolves dont seem to have such a direct connection to their name, at least yet. Their whole schtick is being from a mad max world of tribes and clans. Space Wolves became full on Skarssen Skarssensen the Jarl of Tra drinking Mjod after Abnett.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:26
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vigorous sodomy posted:Unrelated, if the space woofs are space vikings, what can the luna woofs be related to? Both have wolf visages and symbology in their lore, but the space woofs took the viking schtick to the MAXXX. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/ posted:At some time the notion of the Emperor sending his "wolves" to break intractable or potential enemies took root in the consciousness of the new-born Imperium of Man, with the Pacification of Luna in the late 30th Millennium -- considered by many the first battle of the Great Crusade -- its apocryphal source. The XVI Legion embraced the epithet "Luna Wolves" they earned after this first campaign with relish. The wolf's head became a common icon for the Astartes of the XVI Legion, the link being somewhat abstract, as the Terran animals once called wolves had been almost extinct for millennia, largely relegated to existence as gene-stock for engineered bio-weapon beasts on Terra itself, though the name remained synonymous in most Terran dialects with controlled savagery. The wearing of pelts of such augmented canid predators increasingly marked out the field commanders and officers of the Luna Wolves. The XVI would not be the only Space Marine Legion to bear such a title and embrace this imagery as their own, but they were the first.
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Jul 31, 2014 15:03
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maev posted:Luna Wolves dont seem to have such a direct connection to their name, at least yet. Their whole schtick is being from a mad max world of tribes and clans. Space Wolves became full on Skarssen Skarssensen the Jarl of Tra drinking Mjod after Abnett. Per Vengeful Spirit they were assaulting the moon in the unification wars and the opposing general surrendered by saying "Call off your wolves!"
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Jul 31, 2014 15:26
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If you haven't read the Dawn of War post on ADB's blog, stop whatever you are doing and read it now: http://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2014/06/10/dawn-of-war-united-in-hatred/
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Jul 31, 2014 18:53
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:Using either one on it's own would be totally understandable, but I think the usage of an old god from the Cthulhu mythos in conjunction with a mildly well-known Roman surname together is a bit of a leap too far to happen twice and have them be unrelated. It may not have been intentional but it's likely he's at least read the name before.
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Jul 31, 2014 20:06
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berzerkmonkey posted:If you haven't read the Dawn of War post on ADB's blog, stop whatever you are doing and read it now: http://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2014/06/10/dawn-of-war-united-in-hatred/  As a Dawn of War veteran, I can only say: Hate Eldar. Never forgive, never forget.
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Jul 31, 2014 20:37
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Angry Lobster posted:
I first installed it while I was deployed. Being deployed, I didn't get all the patches that fixed the terrible balance issues at release. I chose chaos for my first play through and slowly worked my way north, leaving the Eldar for last. The games AI, being rather simple, dumped reinforcement units on the home capital turn after turn. So I finally got there and went to assault their base and win the game And got completely loving rolled. Hate Eldar. Even more than broken, unbeatable Necrons in the expansion. Hate Eldar
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Jul 31, 2014 22:04
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That's why you grab the Tau. 2 missions in, and you can get the 5000 kills achievement just from the Eldar you kill.
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Jul 31, 2014 22:08
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Fried Chicken posted:I first installed it while I was deployed. Being deployed, I didn't get all the patches that fixed the terrible balance issues at release. I chose chaos for my first play through and slowly worked my way north, leaving the Eldar for last. The games AI, being rather simple, dumped reinforcement units on the home capital turn after turn. So I finally got there and went to assault their base and win the game Agreed, it was loving absurd and since the release of Dawn of War my hate for Eldar has increased exponentially. Here you'll find a comprehensive list of all their broken poo poo (everything). http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Dawn_of_Eldar my dad posted:That's why you grab the Tau. 2 missions in, and you can get the 5000 kills achievement just from the Eldar you kill. Tau were pretty fun yeah, if I remember correctly, with a range upgrade their basic shooting units (fire caste warriors) could shoot you from offscreen, but they were pretty beatable compared to Eldars and Lolcrons.
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Jul 31, 2014 22:57
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Maybe the Eldar were kiddy-diddlers in the CS Goto books because he lost too many games to them in DoW multiplayer. Who am I kidding, CS Goto never came within spitting distance of anything related to Warhammer 40,000 before writing those books.
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Jul 31, 2014 23:23
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SRM posted:Maybe the Eldar were kiddy-diddlers in the CS Goto books because he lost too many games to them in DoW multiplayer.
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Jul 31, 2014 23:52
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Arquinsiel posted:"Mildly well known"? Sejanus was best buds with Tiberius until he wasn't, and got killed while trying to depose him. He basically founded the Praetorian Guard too. If you follow history you'll know who he is but I doubt a random person on the street would be like 'ah yes Sejanus of course'. SRM posted:Maybe the Eldar were kiddy-diddlers in the CS Goto books because he lost too many games to them in DoW multiplayer. I think I knew more about WH40k after reading a wikipedia article than CS Goto did when he wrote those books.
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Aug 1, 2014 01:46
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SRM posted:Maybe the Eldar were kiddy-diddlers in the CS Goto books because he lost too many games to them in DoW multiplayer. Wait, what. Did CS Goto seriously write they were kiddy-diddlers?
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Aug 1, 2014 01:54
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Hi guys so i saw a box of Warhammer 40000 and Warhammer Fantasy in a shop not too far from where i live and i wanted to know which of the novels where worth buying (I already brought the Eisenhorn and Ravenor Omnibuses i found in it): Fantasy: All the Gotrek and Felix novels, The Empire Omnibus, The Elves Omnibus and The Sundering Omnibus. 40000: Word Bearers Omnibus, Salamenders Omnibus, both volumes of Hammer and Bolter, Space Marines (the one divided in Heroes, Legend and Victories), There is Only War Omnibus, Path of the Eldar Omnibus, Commissar, Both Ultramarines Omnibuses, second Blood Angel Omnibus, second Space Wolves Omnibus, Battle of the Fang. HH: The first five novels and Angel Exterminatus.
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Aug 1, 2014 23:51
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Sramaker posted:Hi guys so i saw a box of Warhammer 40000 and Warhammer Fantasy in a shop not too far from where i live and i wanted to know which of the novels where worth buying (I already brought the Eisenhorn and Ravenor Omnibuses i found in it): The Empire Omnibus (I heard they were good, but haven't read them myself) Space Wolves Omnibus (Though I'd probably read the first Omnibus prior to this) Battle of the Fang (Goon recommended) At least the first three HH novels - Horus Rising, False Gods, Galaxy in Flames. I didn't mind the next two, but Eisenstein in particular is pretty much reviled here. There is Only War Omnibus is a big rear end book, but I don't know what is in there - if you can get it cheap, you might as well pick it up. There might be some good stories in there. The Ultramarines books were ok, but pretty much hated here because of Graham McNeill. They are old school and kind of silly. If you can get the H&B collections really cheap, you might find a few good stories. For the most part though, they were kind of meh. berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 00:46
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Sramaker posted:Hi guys so i saw a box of Warhammer 40000 and Warhammer Fantasy in a shop not too far from where i live and i wanted to know which of the novels where worth buying (I already brought the Eisenhorn and Ravenor Omnibuses i found in it): Whatever you do, stay away from the Salamander and Path of the Eldar books....good lord.
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Aug 2, 2014 03:28
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Wax Dynasty posted:Whatever you do, stay away from the Salamander and Path of the Eldar books....good lord. Can you go in details why?
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Aug 2, 2014 03:59
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