|
SocketWrench posted:"Wah, my nazi hate site violates the terms and conditions I agreed to follow. Time to dox them" loving modern nazis, what a bunch of snowflakes Best post/avatar combo in a while.
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 11:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 05:01 |
|
|
As a European I'm intrigued as to the discussion about fears for the First Ammendment and potential loss of right to free speech. What speech are people worried they are going to lose? What is it about European laws regarding free speech etc that worries you? Maybe I'm blinkered but most of the time it seems to be about having the right to express bigotry at vulnerable groups free of consequence.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:01
|
|
|
Captain Monkey posted:If the only thing keeping you from being a Nazi is everyone having to be nice to you, you aren't a good person. That you are here attempting blame the current Nazi movement's rise on its victims, and the people trying to stop it is honestly disgusting. Uh no I'm not blaming the victims, someone wondered how they attract people easier, I gave my opinion, but yea i'm sure the Jew sides with the Nazis.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:01
|
|
|
Serotonin posted:As a European I'm intrigued as to the discussion about fears for the First Ammendment and potential loss of right to free speech. What speech are people worried they are going to lose? What is it about European laws regarding free speech etc that worries you? Freedom of speech does not include incitement of violence.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:03
|
|
|
Mustached Demon posted:Freedom of speech does not include incitement of violence. Yes I'm aware of that
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:04
|
|
|
I'm not American either, but it seems that some people think incitements to violence still count as free speech, instead of, you know, declarations of treason and/or criminal intent. I have been in bed with a fever these past few days though, so I might have missed something. EDIT: VVVV Yeah, the below stuff too. CommissarMega fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Aug 14, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:07
|
|
|
Serotonin posted:As a European I'm intrigued as to the discussion about fears for the First Ammendment and potential loss of right to free speech. What speech are people worried they are going to lose? What is it about European laws regarding free speech etc that worries you? Mostly it's people expecting any curtailment of free speech rights to be mostly used to beat up leftists and minorities even more enthusiastically.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:12
|
|
|
Mukaikubo posted:Mostly it's people expecting any curtailment of free speech rights to be mostly used to beat up leftists and minorities even more enthusiastically. Bingo. The "fire in a crowded theater" precedent was used to lock up anti-war protesters during the First World War. That was specifically what it was written to do. Hate speech laws are only a defense against bigotry as the people in charge of enforcing them aren't bigots themselves. And right now that's not the case at all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:22
|
|
|
The 1st was never designed to protect and embolden any clowndicked moron from harassing his fellow humans anyway but nobody even remembers that other than crusty historians.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:23
|
|
|
Serotonin posted:As a European I'm intrigued as to the discussion about fears for the First Ammendment and potential loss of right to free speech. What speech are people worried they are going to lose? What is it about European laws regarding free speech etc that worries you? The difference between freedom of speech and freedom of expression often shows when it comes to mistreatment of vulnerable groups For example in the united states the westboro baptist church is protected under freedom of speech but would have been charged for crimes in most other western countries. In Sweden it is explicitly against the law to express resentment towards vulnerable groups (minorities, women, LGBT and so on) A young girl stepped onto a buss and found it had a lot of immigrants on it. So she made a facebook comment "what a bunch of animals" which she later deleted. She was fined by the police for it. A Swedish nationalist newspaper site put up a video of an African man who somehow got his child trapped in a washing machine. The headline was something along the lines of "negro man panics as child gets locked in washing machine" They got convicted for that headline. The notion that any of these things could get you hauled off for a trial would probably blow the mind of most decent flag waving, apply pie making GBS threads Americans. smoke sumthin bitch posted:in europe there is no free speech you can literally get arrested for lightly criticising foreign dictators such as erdogan. when you let the state censor hate speech you give them the power to censor any speech that they consider dissenting and a threat to their ongoing authoritarian regimes. Nice example. loving Turkey.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:28
|
|
|
Serotonin posted:As a European I'm intrigued as to the discussion about fears for the First Ammendment and potential loss of right to free speech. What speech are people worried they are going to lose? What is it about European laws regarding free speech etc that worries you? in europe there is no free speech you can literally get arrested for lightly criticising foreign dictators such as erdogan. when you let the state censor hate speech you give them the power to censor any speech that they consider dissenting and a threat to their ongoing authoritarian regimes. Mustached Demon posted:Freedom of speech does not include incitement of violence. thats debatable. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:28
|
|
|
Mantis42 posted:Okay, but how did the Bolsheviks sell themselves? Hell, in the US in the 1970s you had Leftwing radicals everywhere. Regular people were willing to hide the Patty Hearst people simply because they paid lipservice to revolution in between bank robberies. How do you play politics to win? Bolsheviks specifically positioned themselves as the opposite of the whites or mensheviks. There were divisions within the bolsheviks, but they organized for a decade, had infiltrated the military and bureaucracy, and had the support of the middle classes. Czar Nicholas was horribly incompetent and the military had just been poo poo all over so people were ready to go. Once the civil war broke out the right wing was too disorganized, and unlike spain the military was too disunified to really resist it. Once the bolsheviks started taking power, they immediately began reorganizing the factories and teaching people to read mostly. This had been going on already in the country side for years. Literacy was the major major selling point. Like before world war 1 the literacy rate in russia was something absurd like 8%. Now without getting into the internal machinations of the bolsheviks and how then stalin took everything over, by the time the civil war was over the bolsheviks already had a lot of good social will. They'd done a lot of good throughout the future soviet union, and subsequent soviet leaders would use that real progress to fuel their programs, both good and disastrous, for the next 20 years. specifically with the 70s in america, there are a few main factors. 1. The far left got a lot accomplished in the 1960s, and the inertia behind a lot of it kinda burned out. The backlash never got weaker, and people just got older. They ended up getting jobs and voting reagan. 2. Nixon came out against them HARD. FBI, false flag attacks, agent provocateurs, whatever. He destroyed their leadership capacity 3. The complete collapse over the mid to late seventies of the democratic machine. Without a strong center to project from, there was no real base to push left from. Obviously the Dems were going to hold on until the late eighties/early nineties, but the power centers started to fracture, and the gains of the 60s were breaking up the governing coalition. There's a million reasons why the leftwing movement in the states died out, but it's also difficult to say why it failed without identifying what its end game was.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:28
|
|
|
smoke sumthin bitch posted:in europe there is no free speech you can literally get arrested for lightly criticising foreign dictators such as erdogan. What
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:30
|
|
|
Serotonin posted:What He is an idiot and full of poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:32
|
|
|
Serotonin posted:What look at who posted that
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:32
|
|
|
Alter Ego posted:Christ, you could drive a truck through the gap in that guy's teeth. What is it with assholes with lovely opinions and missing teeth? Fluoride is a government conspiracy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:32
|
|
|
Serotonin posted:What not exactly what he claimed but still too close for comfort IMO: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/germany-prosecution-comedian-jan-boehmermann-erdogan-poem-160415133730938.html
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:32
|
|
|
One guy got arrested under an antiquated law banning harassment of foreign leaders in Germany after he mocked Erdogan on German tv and erdy made it a full diplomatic incident. IIRC they repealed the law and nothing happened to the guy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:33
|
|
|
We cannot currently expect, and should not require, the power of the state to be our ally in chilling Nazi discourse. That said, where local and state authorities are sane and reasonable people still, there are already levers which can be pulled. The city of Charlottesville could have moved the protest if they had made their arguments well enough in court, and I 100% guarantee you that every city where anyone has even so much as smelled a Nazi or a Confederate flag waver is this very morning, right at this very moment, calling their attorneys into the room to discuss how they can keep Nazis from engaging in violence. Things like denying permits to people who lie about their numbers, or pulling permits from people who threaten violence either implicitly or explicitly, are already perfectly legal.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:33
|
|
|
Serotonin posted:What https://qz.com/668713/a-new-arrest-shows-you-cant-criticize-turkish-president-erdogan-in-germany/
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:33
|
|
|
Teddybear posted:One guy got arrested under an antiquated law banning harassment of foreign leaders in Germany after he mocked Erdogan on German tv and erdy made it a full diplomatic incident. IIRC they repealed the law and nothing happened to the guy. He never should've been arrested at all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:34
|
|
|
Tiki brand torches denounces white nationalists, disavows use of their product in Virginia. First they came for Tic Tacs...
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:38
|
|
|
Here is new justification for murder https://twitter.com/LucidHurricaneX/status/896834155169947648
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:40
|
|
|
Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Here is new justification for murder Lightning Knight posted:This is 100% going to be the mainstream conservative attempt to dismiss this, that he was "provoked" or that he "feared for his life," a la the standard how to get cops off for murder defense.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:44
|
|
|
Anonymous has taken control of Daily Storm https://www.dailystormer.com
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:44
|
|
|
Vincent Van Goatse posted:He never should've been arrested at all. he was never arrested  since you all seem sort of unsure what happened, here's the run-down: böhmermann, a well-known satirist, published a poem that shat on erdogan a whole bunch. the turkish dictator got mad and his lawyers discovered that there was an ancient law still on the books that criminalized insulting monarchs and heads of state. it hadn't been used in forever and i'd guess most of us germans were very surprised it existed at all. erdogan demands a trial under that law. the german people justifiably flip their poo poo and demand the law be changed. merkel does two things: (a) since the law in currently on the books, the investigation must proceed. (b) she declared that her party would bring a proposed bill into congress that would abolish the law. the investigation proceeds and the courts (as expected) find that the whole thing was satire and no crime was committed. nothing happens to böhmermann. erdogan is pissed, but who gives a poo poo. edit: to make this a little more clear, when i say "investigation", i mean the preliminary investigation into whether there is enough reason to believe that a crime has been committed to open an actual prosecution. the courts decided that there wasn't, and no prosecution, no trial was ever opened. böhmermann was heard by the courts one single time, if i recall correctly. botany fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Aug 14, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:45
|
|
|
loving lmao, even Jeff B. Sessions is trying to distance himself ahahahahaha
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:50
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:loving lmao, even Jeff B. Sessions is trying to distance himself ahahahahaha ehhhh https://twitter.com/GMA/status/897055720851492865 he's doing the old southern racist routine of not openly endorsing it, just killing it behind the scenes. trump is just giving up the game.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:51
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:This is 100% going to be the mainstream conservative attempt to dismiss this, that he was "provoked" or that he "feared for his life," a la the standard how to get cops off for murder defense. It's not going to work though (he's not a cop).
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:51
|
|
|
You would think the AG would know the word "legitimise"
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:52
|
|
|
One of my favorite lines frlm white house correspondence dnner was Jeff Sessions couldn't be here tonight - he was busy doing a pre-Civil War re-enactment."
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:53
|
|
|
edit beaten like erdogan in court, thats what I get for grabbing coffee Re Germany and Erdogan in two minutes. German satirist makes some juicy jokes at Erdogans expense on tv. Erdogan mad. Immediately Erdogan sues Böhmermann in private court for the offense of "Insult" §185 StGB* At the same time Erdogan calls Merkel and says hey I want you to nail this guy, using two German laws: §104a StGB which says states that Germany has diplomatic relations with can request prosecution of German citizens in case of offense and §103 StGB** which covers insult and denigrations of foreign state actors and their personal honor. Merkel does Merkel, shrugs and says sure you go ahead and try. DA presiding over the $103 case quickly resolves it and finds no legal violations, case closed. Civil court presiding over §185 rules that yes Böhmermann was a mean boy and fines him for €1973, a percentage of the lawyers cost. The End. *The curious case of "Insult" laws on the German books harkens back to medieval times, think aristocracy and all that jazz, and will probably, hopefully, get axed in the not so distant future **Because of this idiotic case, parliament will be abolishing §103 by 2018 because, to quote them, it is superflous for our future. The other case smb posted falls under the same §103 that is being canned. It's an old timey relic that is being rightfully tossed out because it became apparant that is is, indeed, dumb.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:54
|
|
|
FizFashizzle posted:ehhhh I'm just saying, Jeff Sessions is willing to publicly call it domestic terrorism. Jeff. Sessions. That's how bad it is. The Lone Badger posted:It's not going to work though (he's not a cop). Oh I think he'll go to jail, but that clip is going to provide cover for every conservative in the country to claim he was unjustly persecuted in a year or two when everyone forgets. WeAreTheRomans posted:You would think the AG would know the word "legitimise" Did he actually say legitimate (with a hard A sound maybe?) or is that just an error on the part of the Twitter? I see a lot of news Twitter feeds slightly misspell words, probably due to phone posting.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:55
|
|
|
WeAreTheRomans posted:You would think the AG would know the word "legitimise" You can use legitimate as a verb I believe.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:56
|
|
|
The Lone Badger posted:It's not going to work though (he's not a cop). Yup. Idiots think that they can use the "HE WAS COMIN' AT ME!!" stand your ground as This One Weird Trick to Get Away With Premeditated Murder. It's really cops that get off on that for a bunch of different reasons. Regular idiot racists that see cops get away with murder and think the rules apply to them as well are often severely disappointed when the law comes down on them. I HIGHLY doubt a prosecutor is going to go to bat for this guy in such a nationally high profile case.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:56
|
|
|
Radish posted:Yup. Idiots think that they can use the "HE WAS COMIN' AT ME!!" stand your ground as This One Weird Trick to Get Away With Premeditated Murder. It's really cops that get off on that for a bunch of different reasons. Regular idiot racists that see cops get away with murder and think the rules apply to them as well are often severely disappointed when the law comes down on them. I HIGHLY doubt a prosecutor is going to go to bad for this idiot in such a nationally high profile case. Like I said, his rear end is grass when it comes to jail time. It's more about public opinion and how this moment will be remembered. I'm just saying, I'm convinced that in a year or two the standard line will be "the mean antifa protestors attacked him (in a vehicle, natch) and so he was justified, also they were blocking the road and thus forfeited all human rights.  "
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 12:58
|
|
|
botany posted:he was never arrested I sincerely thank you for the information, and I will rephrase my position accordingly: I believe there should have been nothing even resembling a preliminary investigation because that ancient law against lèse-majesté should never have existed in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 13:01
|
|
|
litany of gulps posted:You are everything wrong with these forums, you stupid scum. How are mods even picked these days, by straws from a pile of literal turds? gd it no-one was supposed to know
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 13:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 05:01 |
|
|
Vincent Van Goatse posted:I sincerely thank you for the information, and I will rephrase my position accordingly: i agree! the law will be stricken from the books effective january 1st 2018, which is good.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 13:04
|
|