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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Can I just hop in on the culture series? Was thinking of getting the windward book but if I gotta read 6 more books to get to it without being lost, I'm not going to bother. Yeah, the books are all standalone. There's the occasional side reference to previous books, but they're indistinguishable from background worldbuilding. For LtW all you need to know is "there was a war, it was awful"
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Mar 7, 2021 17:56
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PupsOfWar posted:Consider Phlebas *feels* very different from other Culture novels, I think because Banks was thinking in this mode of "what if I made a Star War, but bigger?" and hadn't yet settled on the what the main Idea of the Culture itself was. One early interview I saw with IMB said that Horza was meant to be a sort of Heinlienian competent man protagonist, and through him you would sympathize with the Iridians trying to preserve themselves from being assimilated by the decadent-seeming Culture. Then by the end of the book you'd realize the Iridians are actually quite evil, and that none of the action of the book really meant anything in the context of a massive interstellar war. The trouble was, he'd made the Iridians a bit too alien to ever be sympathetic, and by the time he'd re-written the story for publication he was too enamoured of the Culture and Minds to make them seem authentically like the bad guys. So really all you're left with is the futility of war bit. Also he really wanted someone to make a movie version just to see the under-hovercraft fight scene on the big screen.
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Mar 7, 2021 18:35
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PupsOfWar posted:Consider Phlebas *feels* very different from other Culture novels, I think because Banks was thinking in this mode of "what if I made a Star War, but bigger?" and hadn't yet settled on the what the main Idea of the Culture itself was A Banks interview fragment from Kincaid's book: quote:“In a sense, the whole Culture came from the character Zakalwe […]. I wanted to write about some sort of ultimate mercenary … [but] … I wanted to have him fighting on the side of genuine good. […] That gave me the chance to answer all the questions I had about the right-wing American space opera I had been used to reading.”
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Mar 7, 2021 19:21
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Can I just hop in on the culture series? Was thinking of getting the windward book but if I gotta read 6 more books to get to it without being lost, I'm not going to bother. As others have mentioned, The Culture novels can be read in any order - almost. Look to Windward is one of only... two, I think? That have something like a prior entry in the series. For Windward, that prior is Consider Phlebas, the very first book in the Culture setting, and one which is quite different from everything else Banks wrote afterward, to the point where folks are divided on whether it's a good intro to the setting. Windward deals with the personal and cultural fallout of a devastating war that takes place in Phlebas, and you will definitely feel the emotional beats more keenly if you've read them in that order. But Strom Cuzewon is right in that it's about as close to standalone as it can be while still being related to a previous book.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:41
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General Battuta posted:Giving everyone a chance to be comfortable and fulfilled isn't going to ruin humanity. My point was more that 'comfortable and fulfilled' looks different for different people, that FALC isn't that for everyone and that this is the point the books raised for me when I was 18
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Mar 7, 2021 19:51
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Kestral posted:As others have mentioned, The Culture novels can be read in any order - almost. Look to Windward is one of only... two, I think? That have something like a prior entry in the series. Surface Detail has callbacks to Look to Windward and to Use of Weapons as well.
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Mar 7, 2021 20:17
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ulmont posted:Surface Detail. My favourite phrase from Surface Detail has got to be "Theme-park of woe."
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Mar 7, 2021 20:27
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Collateral posted:My favourite phrase from Surface Detail has got to be "Theme-park of woe." surface detail was a bit too self-indulgently awful for me to really enjoy or want to re-read much, but it did have some great bits
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Mar 7, 2021 20:34
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Can I just hop in on the culture series? Was thinking of getting the windward book but if I gotta read 6 more books to get to it without being lost, I'm not going to bother. Yes just start with Windward, it's good.
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Mar 7, 2021 20:35
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Just don't be like me and read Inversions as your first Culture book. That's the bad place to start.
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Mar 7, 2021 20:41
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Tiny brain: player of games Normal brain: consider phlebas Big brain: look to windward (Nerd brain: excession) Galaxy brain: inversions Mind: the bridge Sublimed: raw spirit
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Mar 7, 2021 20:54
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Consider Phlebas before Look to Windward. Surface Detail after Use of Weapons and Look to Windward. Inversions after you've read several Culture novels and you're familiar with Contact and Special Circumstances. Hydrogen Sonata last.
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Mar 7, 2021 20:55
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90s Cringe Rock posted:Sublimed: raw spirit reading this again right now and it's making me extremely melancholy.
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Mar 7, 2021 21:40
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pseudorandom name posted:Hydrogen Sonata last. And skip Feersum Enjinn.
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Mar 7, 2021 21:42
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ulmont posted:And skip Feersum Enjinn. What, no, it's awesome. Not Culture, mind you.
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Mar 7, 2021 21:56
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Groke posted:What, no, it's awesome.
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Mar 7, 2021 22:09
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But when do people read The Algebraist?
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Mar 7, 2021 22:10
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You read Feersum Endjinn so that when people recommend you a Cormac McCarthy book, you can say "No thanks, I'm good, I read Feersum Endjinn."
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Mar 7, 2021 22:25
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What does Feersum Endjinn have to do with Cormac McCarthy?
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Mar 7, 2021 22:40
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90s Cringe Rock posted:I only listed canonical Culture books, or feersum would definitely have been in my post. You also left out Against A Dark Background  I forget in which, but a GSV makes a passing reference to a lazy gun in one of the later books. AADB and Consider Phlebas are both dark, depressing, ultimately futile efforts by their protagonists, and jam packed with mind blowing set piece scenes. Sure, the hovercraft fight would be great properly filmed, but how about Horza flying the CAT out like a loving madman ? I wanna see that filmed.
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Mar 7, 2021 22:43
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Llamadeus posted:What does Feersum Endjinn have to do with Cormac McCarthy? If he wants us to read his books he can learn to punctuate.
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Mar 7, 2021 22:50
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mllaneza posted:You also left out Against A Dark Background Funnily enough...
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Mar 7, 2021 23:13
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mllaneza posted:You also left out Against A Dark Background AADB bummed me out for a few days when I figured out what the title meant.
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Mar 7, 2021 23:56
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all these silicon valley types are claiming to be big Banks fans now, yet none of them will pony up the $350 million for hollywood to make a sure-to-flop film adaptation of Consider Phlebas cowards
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Mar 7, 2021 23:58
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FWIW Look to Windward was the first one I ever read and I didn't find it to be particularly confusing or anything. Having said that I also thought it was just fine, read Consider Phlebas and Player of Games and also thought they were just fine, and never bothered reading any more of them. Obviously I'm in the minority but I don't really get what the fuss is about! (Though I would add that Player of Games and Use of Weapons are the ones most commonly cited as the best, which is interesting because I thought Player of Games was by far the weakest of the three I've read.)
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Mar 8, 2021 00:45
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Same, I've only read the first three and Player of Games just seemed very generic, like something out of the old pulp magazines I read sprinkled with Culture bits. Consider Phlebas and Use of Weapons were way better (even if I guessed a major plot point in the latter, it didn't matter because it was told well) They were okay but I wasn't super wowed with them and need to read the next ones immediately, but I probably will some day since they've been sitting in my iPad for years.
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Mar 8, 2021 02:49
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Culture books are good for exactly that reason tho. They are my go to for not knowing what to read next, and all of a sudden you get above average scifi in a fun setting that’s familiar but always expanding.
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Mar 8, 2021 05:29
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I enjoyed Player of Games and Use of Weapons a lot, but Consider Phlebas and Excession were mediocre. I don't expect I'll read much more Banks.
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Mar 8, 2021 10:38
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freebooter posted:(Though I would add that Player of Games and Use of Weapons are the ones most commonly cited as the best, which is interesting because I thought Player of Games was by far the weakest of the three I've read.) I don't think I've ever seen "Player of Games is one of the 2 best Culture novels" as any sort of consensus anywhere a lot of people recommend it as a first Culture novel because they think it ~explains the Culture and the conceits of the series straightforwardly, but imho that is not very necessary, stuff's not that complicated
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Mar 8, 2021 11:40
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My favourites were Look to Windward and Excession. The earlier books are a bit baroque for my tastes.
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Mar 8, 2021 11:50
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PupsOfWar posted:I don't think I've ever seen "Player of Games is one of the 2 best Culture novels" as any sort of consensus anywhere The Player of Games explains as much about the Culture as is required. There are Minds, they have goals, they use individuals to achieve those goals as necessary without explaining what or why, and in return they generally keep everyone happy until they're needed. The closer to the Minds we are taken, the weaker the writing becomes and the more we are left looking at the adventures of the GUA I'm Not As Clever As I Think I Am.
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Mar 8, 2021 11:53
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Groke posted:What, no, it's awesome. Ah, interesting. I bounced off the spelling so hard I never realized it wasn't Culture.
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Mar 9, 2021 01:23
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The Ten Thousand Doors of January by Alix E Harrow - $3.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M77XW56/
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Mar 9, 2021 01:58
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PupsOfWar posted:I don't think I've ever seen "Player of Games is one of the 2 best Culture novels" as any sort of consensus anywhere Hmm. I definitely picked it up somewhere. Maybe in the mid 2000s when there were still three left to be written - are any of those final three considered to be the best? edit - probably just as likely that it was just an opinion I read once or twice and mistakenly thought of as widespread
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Mar 9, 2021 04:52
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I've definitely seen it repeated before, but it's far from being an overwhelming consensus. The last three are also often considered to be weaker from what I've seen. (Okay this is actually probably just confirmation bias on my part) Llamadeus fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Mar 9, 2021 |
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Mar 9, 2021 05:06
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pradmer posted:The Ten Thousand Doors of January by Alix E Harrow - $3.99 I enjoyed this quite a bit for a standalone fantasy novel. Harrow has a knack for making flourishy sentences that flow off the page. Looking forward to reading more by her at some point.
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Mar 9, 2021 05:59
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Hubbardologist posted:I enjoyed this quite a bit for a standalone fantasy novel. Harrow has a knack for making flourishy sentences that flow off the page. Looking forward to reading more by her at some point. i thought it was overwritten and overstuffed (vampires! portals! romance!) -- it reads to me very much as a first novel -- but at the same time I respect her for trying to do as much as she does and $4 is a steal. also I listened to the audiobook (which is wonderfully performed but also really emphasizes how florid the prose gets) so it may be less noticeable in print
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Mar 9, 2021 14:41
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That's funny you found it overstuffed, as my main criticism was that it was ultimately quite a simple story. The early mention about the world where the main quasi-vampire was from made the "twist" at the end underwhelming, but I just wrote that off as the book being aimed at an advanced YA reader. But anyway, the main baddies and the portals all tied together logically for me. The romance was separate but central to making the story work. That said, I can see how her prose would not be for everyone. She really lays it on thick. But it worked for me, particularly to help differentiate the quasi-split narrative thing that happens.
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Mar 9, 2021 17:11
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Hubbardologist posted:That's funny you found it overstuffed, as my main criticism was that it was ultimately quite a simple story. Tough to discuss without spoiling -- bottom line is I agree that January's story is a pretty straightforward hero's journey and I think I would have liked it more if it were pared down to that. I found the mom and dad's story in the journal to be much less compelling and interesting -- neither character is particularly complex -- and I was more interested in the impact that reading the story had on January, which the author could have conveyed without providing to us the entire scholarly work on the dad's world, the various places he ran around to on behalf of Locke, etc etc.
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Mar 9, 2021 17:30
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I think I get where you're coming from and I agree. I'm just not sure how much of Julian's text is really cuttable, I recall it being fairly tightly written. Maybe some of Ade's story, as I would agree that sort of dragged, and ultimately didn't provide much except do some worldbuilding and establish more of Julian's story, which I also cared less about. Not to mention, Ade's relationship with January is never particularly fleshed out. They meet like... once at the very end?
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Mar 9, 2021 17:57
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