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Paracaidas posted:The incitement must be imminent, effective, and intended (e: these words all have specific legal meanings that often differ from common usage). This is a difficult standard to reach, and is nearly impossible to be reached preemptively. Accept nothing less than the very definition of Nazi speech means incitement of violence.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:03
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Aug 14, 2017 14:06
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897079051277537280 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897048688639574016 President lashes out at pharma CEO, Dems, still won't condemn white supremacy.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:08
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I will also point out that CEO is a black man.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:10
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I think the while the law protects free speech, it doesn't actually protect threats. This requires zero further legislation. "Blood and soil" is a threat.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:10
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Mendrian posted:I think the while the law protects free speech, it doesn't actually protect threats. This requires zero further legislation. Is it? It seems very oblique if so. I read it as an aspirational "our bloodline is great and so is our native soil" kind of thing.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:14
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Captain Monkey posted:If the only thing keeping you from being a Nazi is everyone having to be nice to you, you aren't a good person. That you are here attempting blame the current Nazi movement's rise on its victims, and the people trying to stop it is honestly disgusting. Yeah, that's not how social interactions work. There is no innate goodness or badness, just the ball of ideas, fears, hopes, prejudices and biases you have in your head. People are complicated and often consist of many, many contradictions. They may desire justice and fairness, but have both of these twisted to serve Nazi ideals of what is "just" and "fair". The whole point is finding people who are "at risk" and guiding them down the right path. If you only want the good people, you're going to lose.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:14
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ratbert90 posted:Guys, I just want to say: Hey, are you implying blind people shouldn't punch Nazi? Bigot!!!
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Aug 14, 2017 14:14
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See a Nazi Punch it's face Make the world a better place
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Aug 14, 2017 14:16
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dr_rat posted:Hey, are you implying blind people shouldn't punch Nazi? Echo locate them like a bat and then smash their faces. Equal opportunity punching!
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Aug 14, 2017 14:16
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Mustached Demon posted:Freedom of speech does not include incitement of violence. You can actually get around this by yelling "IT'S A PRANK!" over and over again and pointing to a camera
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Aug 14, 2017 14:17
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Pembroke Fuse posted:Yeah, that's not how social interactions work. There is no innate goodness or badness, just the ball of ideas, fears, hopes, prejudices and biases you have in your head. People are complicated and often consist of many, many contradictions. They may desire justice and fairness, but have both of these twisted to serve Nazi ideals of what is "just" and "fair". The whole point is finding people who are "at risk" and guiding them down the right path. If you only want the good people, you're going to lose. We must coddle racist white males or they will turn into literal Nazis and murder us all. This is not their fault, but the fault of those who refuse to talk respectfully/nicely enough to them! - Pembroke Fuse 2017
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Aug 14, 2017 14:17
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ought ten posted:Here's what made Trump so mad So he stepped down because Trump didn't condemn white supremacists, which in turn lead to Trump condemning him? 
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Aug 14, 2017 14:18
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Mustached Demon posted:Accept nothing less than the very definition of Nazi speech means incitement of violence. Absolutely. Are we counting on the Roberts court to overturn a halfcentury of precedent to allow laws hedging "unless you're a Nazi"? There's a lot of poo poo that probably shouldn't be protected that is. I 100% don't want this court, this congress, this administration, or these cops to be the ones making those adjustments.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:19
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Data Graham posted:Is it? It seems very oblique if so. It's straight up Nazi poo poo. It's only aspiration is genocide and forced relocation, so yeah it's inherently violent.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:19
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Data Graham posted:Is it? It seems very oblique if so. I thought it was to emphasize the connection between heritage and nation. That your nationality is a matter of your genes and not your residence. In Europe blood and soil is essentially "I am a member of this nation because my blood is the blood of the nations people" It's also about excluding people from the national identity even if they became legal citizens or were even born here because their blood is still foreign. It makes a lot less sense for the US.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:23
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Dejawesp posted:It's also about excluding people from the national identity even if they became legal citizens or were even born here because their blood is still foreign. actually...
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Aug 14, 2017 14:25
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Context https://twitter.com/darrensands/status/897081510511116288
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Aug 14, 2017 14:28
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Dejawesp posted:I thought it was to emphasize the connection between heritage and nation. That your nationality is a matter of your genes and not your residence. Are you saying "it's heritage, not hate" but for nazi slogans?
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Aug 14, 2017 14:32
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Well huh.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:32
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https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20210120T09&p0=900&msg=Inauguration+2021&font=sanserif only 1255 days until the 2021 inauguration.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:33
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Not thst the context isn't worthwhile, but I'm pretty sure Trump would have taken that statement as a personal attack regardless of the man's race. Maybe he would have used less CAPS LOCK though, who knows
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Aug 14, 2017 14:34
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redneck nazgul posted:actually... As in the idea of white supremacists claiming genetic heritage to the soil of the Americas.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:34
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Ralepozozaxe posted:See a Nazi Burma Shave
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Aug 14, 2017 14:35
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Data Graham posted:Is it? It seems very oblique if so. Blood and Soil was literally the Nazi Agriculture Ministry's motto, taken from.a book also written by a Nazi
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Aug 14, 2017 14:37
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Chilichimp posted:LOL so what? It's also just bullshit, there's footage of him already speeding towards them from down the street.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:37
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Captain Monkey posted:We must coddle racist white males or they will turn into literal Nazis and murder us all. This is not their fault, but the fault of those who refuse to talk respectfully/nicely enough to them! - Pembroke Fuse 2017 Oh for gently caress's sake dude, don't twist my words. I'm not excusing people who make terrible decisions, but I also understand these things called "social forces" and "determinism". People who are "at risk" for becoming Nazi or other forms of radicals usually live at the intersection of a number of economic, social and cultural problems. Socialists and leftists seem to be perfectly capable of understanding determinism when they talk about the fact that people aren't poor because they don't work hard enough, they're poor because society is stacked against them. That's social determinism. But they seem to get totally bent out of shape when someone suggests that your ideological affiliations are also affected by the culture and economic forces in which you live. That's also social determinism. Young people especially are loving developmental lumps. They're far more susceptible to bad messaging and peer in-group/out-group manipulation. The Nazis are tapping into that and creating outgroups and ingroups for them. This isn't complicated! Both the SPD and the KPD in Weimar Germany understood this. They specifically created social clubs and programs for boys and girls to teach them skills, give them a civics lesson and allow them a better path in a ruined post-war Germany. Maybe don't look for the "racist" white males, but rather the "confused" white males and reach out to them. That's what people like Dr. Nerdlove are doing. They're not talking to MRAs, they're talking to young menwho are confused and can fall for that PUA/MRA poo poo in their desperation and loneliness. Pembroke Fuse fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 14:39
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I think this morning Trump is unveiling whatever nonsense trade stuff he is going to do that will undoubtedly piss off China at precisely the wrong time to be doing that
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Aug 14, 2017 14:40
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Dejawesp posted:I thought it was to emphasize the connection between heritage and nation. That your nationality is a matter of your genes and not your residence. That's one of the things that's always driven me crazy about this. The US is one of very few countries in the world to have been created almost entirely through immigration; if there is any "national" (in the "by birth" etymological sense of the word) identity to the country at all it's centered on the Constitution and the idea of America as a "synthetic" nation, created in an era that was supposed to have moved past nationalism as the result of accident of birth. It was supposed to be about a genuine social contract, agreed upon by people of all races and creeds, who mutually accepted the idea of a "nation" as being about a codified system of government and a legalistic way of life invented by smart people through reasoned discourse rather than about a folk culture and tradition handed down from prior generations stretching back to cave paintings. If there is any claim to "American exceptionalism", it's in this. It's something I've believed in. It's something I've wanted to believe in. But ever since day one there have been these people who want to jam that folk culture interpretation into it anyway; the guys in Gangs of New York calling themselves "Native Americans" because they're third generation native-born, not first generation like these filthy newcomers; the ones who apply a racial or a religious layer onto a proposition that had no room for either thing in its conception; the ones who can somehow justify black people or Hispanic people not being considered "normal Americans" despite both groups being all over the North American continent and multi-generationally entrenched in 1776. "Blood and soil" is a phrase that makes sense (pardon the stretch) in a place like Germany or France or China. But America is like the last place where it should be admissible. And anyone who pretends to base any of their philosophy on the ideas that those guys tried to put into the Constitution really has no excuse for missing that huge blinding fundamental point at the center of it all. Data Graham fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 14:43
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FlamingLiberal posted:I think this morning Trump is unveiling whatever nonsense trade stuff he is going to do that will undoubtedly piss off China at precisely the wrong time to be doing that Yeah, I think that was the original plan, but he wouldn't be able to answer any questions today for obvious reasons.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:44
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Here is new justification for murder He's already speeding through the crowd and someone slung a shirt at his car? Oh man, call the cops, we got us a open and shut case here.....loving Nazis. You bastards have dreamed of this for years and now that one of you shits actually did it you're all "nope, nope, we didn't"
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Aug 14, 2017 14:44
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FlamingLiberal posted:I think this morning Trump is unveiling whatever nonsense trade stuff he is going to do that will undoubtedly piss off China at precisely the wrong time to be doing that Later today: President Trump Signs a Memorandum Addressing China’s Intellectual Property Laws Good timing considering we're saber rattling with their neighbor.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:44
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Paracaidas posted:Absolutely. Are we counting on the Roberts court to overturn a halfcentury of precedent to allow laws hedging "unless you're a Nazi"? Go out and make it unacceptable. Just like voting.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:46
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Pembroke Fuse posted:Oh for gently caress's sake dude, don't twist my words. I'm not excusing people who make terrible decisions, but I also understand these things called "social forces" and "determinism". People who are "at risk" for becoming Nazi or other forms of radicals usually live at the intersection of a number of economic, social and cultural problems. It's a mix of both I believe, and heavily dependent on age. A lot of people go for the "economic anxiety" bullshit and start going "took my job", but that has been around forever. The most recent resurgence has just been kids finding a place to fit in and getting their kicks, which is what we need to attack. We have gone from hate groups attracting the poor and disaffected to them attracting aimless losers. Basically the New Nazis are white supremacists juggalos is what I am saying. E. Also the weird cult of masculinity plays into this heavily. VVV For sure, I mean it more in the dressing up sense CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 14:46
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DreamShipWrecked posted:It's a mix of both I believe, and heavily dependent on age. A lot of people go for the "economic anxiety" bullshit and start going "took my job", but that has been around forever. The most recent resurgence has just been kids finding a place to fit in and getting their kicks, which is what we need to attack. We have gone from hate groups attracting the poor and disaffected to them attracting aimless losers. From what I understand your average juggalo would gently caress up a Nazi with gusto. Nazis are sub-juggalos.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:48
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897079051277537280 at this point i think it's a mistake to say "still won't" at some point someone is going to twist his arm into saying he disavows nazis and he will immediately change the subject. but that won't make it better: he has already sent the message as loudly as possible. his chance to condemn it is over. acting like he can still condemn it and have it mean a drat is just playing into the scam where he will give a token disavowal and all of the republicans will immediately fall in line while all of the nazis received the message as clearly as possible that he's on their side.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:49
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We are going to get some "I'm not a racist I have black friends" tweets today aren't we?
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Aug 14, 2017 14:50
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Someone interview ben carson
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Aug 14, 2017 14:50
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e: ^^^^^^^^^^^^  Milosh posted:We are going to get some "I'm not a racist I have black friends" tweets today aren't we? Friend Ben has been on the DL for a while, maybe he'll make an appearance
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Aug 14, 2017 14:51
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Azhais posted:Malcolm X also preached that whites were devils, blacks were superior to whites, and the white race was dying out. Not exactly an endearing message either. I guarantee you that you don't know poo poo about Gandhi. He held that violent resistance to oppression was a moral duty, just for your information.
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