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Tippis posted:Why (and how) does it take 2½ minutes to say “yes”? You should watch it, I laughed at the reason why it was so long He says "yes" and then it cuts to like two minutes of credits
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Jul 16, 2021 21:42
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SeANMcBAY posted:I like his stories but dude was considered racist even by early 20th century standards. He was afraid of everyone. Yeah, the dude's my favourite author, but the answer to "was he racist" is an immediate "yes." Like, holy poo poo, just look at his New York stories. This shouldn't be a controversial statement. Then you should make fun of him for being terrified of penguins. Everyone is an understatement.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:50
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Lovecraft’s views on race were well within the mainstream of his day, which was also the heyday of scientific racism. He was absolutely a proud racist but “unusually”? Uh no, his kind of racism was extremely usual. Racial segregation was the literal law in the US for his entire life.
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Jul 16, 2021 21:55
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Cool that nobody actually watched the video, you might learn something.
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Jul 16, 2021 22:26
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i think the video is very illuminating and very worth a watch
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Jul 16, 2021 22:32
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I find reductive to say Lovecraft was racist. It seems it's the only thing it matters now. He was, but also a super huge classist, it's all over his writing, well above his racism. He was infatuated with a romanticized version of the noble, educated gentleman, he totally wanted to be part the high class club of the town, and of course, he hated the opposite: the low-class workers, the ignorant masses, the inbred, simple minded villagers, etc.
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Jul 16, 2021 22:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2ckqETHnS4 Released the alpha version of HXDD if anyone wants to mess with it: https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=232&t=72799
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Jul 16, 2021 23:17
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Turin Turambar posted:I find reductive to say Lovecraft was racist. It seems it's the only thing it matters now. He was, but also a super huge classist, it's all over his writing, well above his racism. He was infatuated with a romanticized version of the noble, educated gentleman, he totally wanted to be part the high class club of the town, and of course, he hated the opposite: the low-class workers, the ignorant masses, the inbred, simple minded villagers, etc. He was also pretty obviously crazy by modern standards and had a terrible upbringing by relatives who were horrid people, which is the main reason I'm willing to cut him some slack
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Jul 16, 2021 23:30
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Mordja posted:Cool that nobody actually watched the video, you might learn something. It's true! There are certainly lots of Sandy-ideas that don't overlap with mine, but I appreciate his thoughtful exegesis here.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:38
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Lovecraft changed at least somewhat towards the end of his life:quote:Capitalism is dying from internal as well as external causes, & its own leaders & beneficiaries are less & less able to kid themselves. I'm no economist, but from recent reading I've been able to form a rough picture of the dilemma—the need to restrict consumers' goods & to pile up a needless plethora of producing equipment in order to maintain the irrational surplus called profit—which has caused orthodox economists like Hayek & Robbins to admit that only starvation wages & artificial scarcity could stabilize the profit system in future & avert increasing cyclical depressions of utterly destructive scope. Laissez-faire capitalism is dead—make no mistake about that. The only avenue of survival for plutocracy is a military & emotional fascism whereby millions of persons will be withdrawn from the industrial arena & placed on a dole or in concentration-camps with high-sounding patriotic names. That or socialism—take your choice. In the long run it won't be the New Deal but the mere facts of existence which will be recognised as the real & inevitable slayer of Hooverism. Nobody is going to "destroy the system"—for it has been destroying itself ever since it evolved out of the old agrarian-handicraft economy a century & a half ago.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:43
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Turin Turambar posted:I find reductive to say Lovecraft was racist. It seems it's the only thing it matters now. He was, but also a super huge classist, it's all over his writing, well above his racism. He was infatuated with a romanticized version of the noble, educated gentleman, he totally wanted to be part the high class club of the town, and of course, he hated the opposite: the low-class workers, the ignorant masses, the inbred, simple minded villagers, etc. Yes, I agree it is reductive. Lovecraft’s class attitudes and other political opinions were far weirder for his time and place than his racism. He started out as an anachronistic Tory Anglophile type and became a technocratic socialist. The unifying thread of his attitudes is contempt for the status quo. I wouldn’t say he wanted to be part of high society. He certainly wanted not to be poor, and by and large despised poor people, but remember, he spent most of his teenage years and early adulthood watching his family sink from comfortable middle-class lifestyle into a poverty from which he never escaped. Yet all his friends and correspondents were starving freelancer types like himself, and his chosen career (based originally on a connection he made by shitposting in a comments section by mail) was trying to sell self-conscious shlock to trashy magazines. His few protagonists who are high society types are all stock gothic aristocrats with horrible curses in their bloodlines. The vast majority are instead college students and academics, something Lovecraft obviously wanted to be himself but was never able to achieve owing to being poor as gently caress. Weird guy overall. The racism is one of the least remarkable things about him.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:46
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i'm sorry for posting a halfway jokey video where sandy petersen said the word 'yes' and the next 2 minutes are credits please, god, end my torture
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Jul 16, 2021 23:48
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Johnny Joestar posted:i'm sorry for posting a halfway jokey video where sandy petersen said the word 'yes' and the next 2 minutes are credits 
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Jul 16, 2021 23:49
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Isn’t Sandy a Mormon
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Jul 16, 2021 23:52
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skasion posted:Isn’t Sandy a Mormon You added an extra letter 
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Jul 16, 2021 23:54
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SeANMcBAY posted:I like his stories but dude was considered racist even by early 20th century standards. He was afraid of everyone. He was afraid of loving air conditioning. Dude took severe anxiety to a whole other level.
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Jul 16, 2021 23:54
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Arivia posted:He was afraid of loving air conditioning. So are people in France. Yes, really.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:09
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Arivia posted:He was afraid of loving air conditioning. Dude took severe anxiety to a whole other level. Lovecraft was not afraid of air conditioning. The protagonist of his story “Cool Air” gets triggered by the cold because his upstairs neighbor and friend who had really intense air conditioning turned out to be a living corpse using the cold to slow the rot. At the risk of stating the obvious, this did not actually happen to Lovecraft and there is no reason to believe that air conditioning set him off in real life. I don’t even know that he ever experienced it. The most we can possibly say about Lovecraft and air conditioning is that AC wasn’t at all common (especially in homes) at the time he wrote, making it a suitably weird technological novelty to theme a story around, and that he anecdotally didn’t like the cold.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:17
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Arivia posted:He was afraid of loving air conditioning. Dude took severe anxiety to a whole other level. He would die in my city without it nowadays.
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Jul 17, 2021 00:52
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:So are people in France. No, they aren't. 
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Jul 17, 2021 01:07
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To steer things a little more on-topic, I finally finished Back To Saturn X (episode 1) yesterday. It was a lot of fun. That huge slaughterfest near the end of "Tough Neck River" was insane (not quite at the end), I had to finish off the Cyberdemon with the shotgun because the whole thing was just so ammo-depleting. Just to make sure I didn't miss anything, is the ending really supposed to be you board the boat, it sinks, and the next level is just a black screen? I guess I'll get on to episode 2 soon.
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Jul 17, 2021 01:24
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Sir Lemming posted:Just to make sure I didn't miss anything, is the ending really supposed to be you board the boat, it sinks, and the next level is just a black screen?
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Jul 17, 2021 01:32
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the most unnecessary mods are the best kind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V74eiGAbvDk 
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Jul 17, 2021 01:46
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Sandy sucks and so does Lovecraft lol wtf is going on in here.
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Jul 17, 2021 02:05
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Arivia posted:He was afraid of loving air conditioning. Dude took severe anxiety to a whole other level. What if you put one of these signs up? 
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Jul 17, 2021 04:51
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Lemon-Lime posted:No, they aren't. Ok, 'afraid' is not accurate. "Oddly against" works better.
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Jul 17, 2021 04:59
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Groovelord Neato posted:Lovecraft changed at least somewhat towards the end of his life: Maybe if you think the racist classist insane guy had a point you should re-think your opinion.
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Jul 17, 2021 05:36
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MJBuddy posted:Maybe if you think the racist classist insane guy had a point you should re-think your opinion. he had a change of heart at the end of his life and went socialist and talked a great deal about how he regretted his racist and classist ways. there's only a couple of letters about it because he died the same year. lovecraft at the height of his racism was so racist that he made robert e howard (also pretty racist) rethink his own racism and tone it down. lovecraft was a weirdo shut-in who was terrified of everything that wasn't his exact specific picture of civilisation. and he was going by an earlier, even more granular form of racism where he didn't even think that mainland europeans or catholics counted as 'white'. it was basically just new england WASPs for him. at the end of his life (although he didn't know it was the end of his life) he abandoned his prior conservatism, bemoaned how blind and racist he had been, and began to advocate for socialism. I don't know what changed his mind, but he described himself as having been an ignorant child for the prior 30+ years of his life. it's a shame that he died so soon after, because it meant he never got the chance to advocate properly for any of his new beliefs. i think you can accept that the majority of his fiction was very racist, because it is. but whether he was racist at the time of his death depends on whether you believe someone can truly change. i tend to feel that his vile beliefs were a result of a strange upbringing and genuine fearful ignorance. it doesn't excuse it, but it does make it more likely that he would be able to change once exposed to objective reality.
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Jul 17, 2021 08:16
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Whatever his flaws in his beliefs, I find him fascinating, in how he applied what at the time was the latest news about science and astronomy to turn it into existential cosmic horror. He really was into that, science and astronomy in particular, but it seems he was super bad at math, and that's the reason he didn't pursuit it as career, and instead ended up into writing fiction. But he always maintained the interest on it, and that's the reason lots of his writing use the 'scifi horror' angle. You can imagine how he really read what was news in his time, of discovering there are many more galaxies in the universe, not only ours, and the scientists thought of how each star probably had their own planets around it, an how Earth was then just one more of many, and not the special, chosen place by God, and how probably life existed in many of those planets (remember at the time they thought maybe Venus and Mars had life too), and how biologists said life in those places could be well different to ours, how if there are thousands of planets out there, chances are that some are way more advanced than ours, and some of them could have totally different behavior and morale than us. It's all technically true, despite the heavy fantasy imaginative flair he applied, it's all based on grounded concepts. Then you see all that through the lens of a writer with heavy anxieties and a deep fear of the unknown, and with a liking with the romantic horror writing, and you end up with his very unique fiction. There are current 'cosmic horror' writers that ape his style, but for them it's just another fiction style, from many to choose from, for the original Lovecraft, it all was more 'genuine'. Right now I'm remembering At the Mountains of Madness, and it's the same, it's informed by the age of Earth which at the time was very debated. Some people still believed in the biblical age of Earth, 6000 years or so. Others believed it was 60000 years, and other even older, 700.000 years. But new discoveries started to point that it was way older than all that, of thousands of million of years. You can imagine how Lovecraft read that, and thought 'poo poo, in all that long time, intelligent life could have appeared, or arrived somewhere, it could have empires, and then go extinct, only for life to surge again millions of years later, and no one could know'.
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Jul 17, 2021 09:29
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MJBuddy posted:Maybe if you think the racist classist insane guy had a point you should re-think your opinion. If you think the guy who went from ghost-writing stories where the big horrible twist at the end is "your ancestor was from africa" (not his idea mind you - this was a standard plot point at the time) to "these fungus-vegetable non-humanoid aliens are 'just men like us'" didn't have a fundamental change in outlook I don't know what to tell you.
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Jul 17, 2021 12:28
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MJBuddy posted:Maybe if you think the racist classist insane guy had a point you should re-think your opinion. Generally I read posts before I reply but your way is cool.
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Jul 17, 2021 13:03
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DatonKallandor posted:If you think the guy who went from ghost-writing stories where the big horrible twist at the end is "your ancestor was from africa" (not his idea mind you - this was a standard plot point at the time) to "these fungus-vegetable non-humanoid aliens are 'just men like us'" didn't have a fundamental change in outlook I don't know what to tell you. Well…the narrator of “At the Mountains of Madness” thinks of the Old Ones first as specimens and then as monsters and only becomes sympathetic to them because he’s taken in the entire history of their civilization and appreciates how its greatness was doomed to fall into decadence and then get genocided by a black, amorphous, imitative slave species hellbent on revolution. He has no sympathy whatever for the shoggoths although the text itself makes clear that they are intelligent creatures and not even wholly in the wrong. I’m unconvinced that Lovecraft ever had a come to Jesus moment on race or class. His big political shift was his embrace of socialism during the New Deal. His views and attitudes did evolve over his lifetime but what this should tell us is not that he “got less racist” or “got less classist” but that calling someone “racist” or “classist” is a necessary simplification and that people may behave in one context in ways that don’t always agree with their stated positions in another context. Lovecraft’s wife was Jewish, one of his best friends was Jewish (also gay, though Lovecraft didn’t know that). Does this mean that he repudiated anti-semitism? Hell no, it means that he broadly understood that you shouldn’t tell your real life friends if you happen to abominate them on technical grounds. Lovecraft, like many Americans in the 30s, supported Hitler initially, deploring his excesses of rhetoric maybe, but trusting that he meant well and was doing what was necessary. He lost enthusiasm for him only when it became obvious Hitler was in favor of mob violence. Lovecraft was a pretty broad-minded and well-read guy of a type that we don’t tend to associate with being extremely racist nowadays. But just like we should resist the temptation to use “he was racist” as thought-terminating cliche which presents a static and unchanging Lovecraft caricature who was perpetually on the verge of lynching everyone, I think we should also resist the temptation to say that he wasn’t really that bad or that he “came around” to something like the views which we coincidentally hold today, even though it’s logically incoherent for that to have been the case.
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Jul 17, 2021 13:56
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I just came to say I'm finally excited to play the Orange Box on a handheld sometime next year but I'm going to nope my way out of this discussion
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Jul 17, 2021 14:54
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i like games where you shoot the bad guys
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Jul 17, 2021 16:04
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I hate penguins. Hate em. Don't trust them one bit...waddling around in a big dumb gaggle down there in a frozen wasteland. One of my earliest exposures to the concept of a penguin was Danny DeVito's portrayal in 1992's smash-hit "Batman Returns"--and it's only gone downhill from there. "March of the Penguins"? "Marching on what?" you might ask. Us? I say we don't wait to find out. Get rid of them with extreme prejudice.
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Jul 17, 2021 16:12
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https://twitter.com/daveoshry/status/1416363947515686913?s=21 Come on. 
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Jul 17, 2021 16:31
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I thought they already passed cert a while ago?
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Jul 17, 2021 16:34
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repiv posted:I thought they already passed cert a while ago? Dave the Dusk dev did a tweet thread about why it took so long to port yesterday so I think they just finished the possible final build.
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Jul 17, 2021 16:59
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I'm an idiot and had no idea Viscerafest had a bunch of accessibility features in the gameplay options tab so now it's one of if not my current favorite retro fps and I can't wait for more. 
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Jul 17, 2021 17:25
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Just to tie prior discussion in to the topic a little bit, wasn't the PC version of Dark Corners of the Earth done by one person, after the company had shut down? Because I need to finish that game at some point but it is... a little jank and I'm not looking forward to the tweaking to get it just right, but at the same time I'm not sure I can be too hard on it for that reason. Also, been playing Crysis and gently caress is Onslaught a terrible level. I hate these helicopters. Good to hear about Dusk, there's supposed to be a patch for the other version along with the Switch port, right?
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Jul 17, 2021 21:29
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