|
Willem Dafosah Sherman?
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 09:57 |
|
|
I can just picture the conversation with Trump's advisers over the presser being like the "You're Homer Thompson now" scene in that old episode of the Simpsons where Sideshow Bob is trying to kill Bart. Trump: "But why do I have to condemn these people again, they're praising me? Advisory Panel "Well sir you see it's bad for your polling all around and your party is even doing it and it might even make you look moderately more palatable to the public this week before you do the trade war thing...." Trump: "But they're saying they love me, where's the problem? Advisory Panel: "Well you see sir not everything is always about getting instant praise and gratification, sometimes you have to know when to cut a group loose that'll tie you die far worse later..... Trump: "BUT PRAISE! FOR ME! ME ME ME! Where's the problem again guy? Why do I have to denounce these people that say good things about ME!" Advisory Panel: *Collective wince in unison*
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:39
|
|
|
The Glumslinger posted:Yeah, some of my coworkers are coming around to feel that Trump isn't just cynically pandering to white supremacists for political gain, but because he actually believes in it I'm not convinced he believes it overtly, rather than de facto believing it through unexamined specific beliefs. But the two aren't crazy different in practice. I don't think Trump thinks "black people are innately inferior to white people" in those terms, but he thinks that they don't face real discrimination, that BLM are just causing trouble, etc. But I'm not 100% SURE of my position and that's pretty messed up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
GWBBQ posted:The Red Wings are suing them. Stephen Miller is standing in for comms director, RIP Mooch. I wouldn't exactly describe Bannon as a Nazi, he has his own somewhat enunciated neofascist ideology. Adjacent and close enough that I'm fishmeching a bit but he's exactly the sort of guy who would himself quibble about his disagreements with Adolf Hitler's ideology. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
Recently within my social groups it seems like there's a bit of the "Rey meets Han Solo" moment going on for people. Like things have crystallized and then Han says "it's true. All of it." Even the worst person I know in regards to racial divides has take a step back and contemplated, however shallow. It's something, and I'll take it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
The Glumslinger posted:I still find it hilarious that Teen Vogue is at the forefront of mainstream wokeness It's not like it's staffed and edited by teens.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:42
|
|
|
Red Baron posted:Recently within my social groups it seems like there's a bit of the "Rey meets Han Solo" moment going on for people. Like things have crystallized and then Han says "it's true. All of it." Even the worst person I know in regards to racial divides has take a step back and contemplated, however shallow. That's cool, because I've seen way too many pearl-clutching middle-aged white women insisting both sides are bad and BLM violence is just as unacceptable. Because BLM is the Nazi opposition party? I guess?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:43
|
|
|
Unoriginal Name posted:I'm not even sure Trump's hesitation to condemn this come from his racism. I really think its because he's that loving lazy. It's a basically meaningless distinction from any practical perspective, but I do wonder sometimes how much of Trump's behavior is sincere, specific racism and how much of it is just an extension of his overwhelming misanthropy and narcissism. He hates black people, sure, but I feel like he hates absolutely everyone, his hatred is simply easier and more socially acceptable to act upon when it's directed towards minorities. Not that it really matters, like I said. Just a chicken and egg question I find myself dwelling on occasionally.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:43
|
|
|
Al Borland Corp. posted:It's not like it's staffed and edited by teens. *angrily cancels subscription to Cat Fancy magazine*
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:43
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:I'm not convinced he believes it overtly, rather than de facto believing it through unexamined specific beliefs. But the two aren't crazy different in practice. I don't think Trump thinks "black people are innately inferior to white people" in those terms, but he thinks that they don't face real discrimination, that BLM are just causing trouble, etc. Trump's first newspaper article was about him denying rent to black tenants. There's been no reason to think his views have changed in all his years.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:44
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:I'm not convinced he believes it overtly, His dad was in the KKK, he was born in the 1940s and he has been sued multiple times for discrimination. Is there literally any reason at all to give him benefit of the doubt? Except that gross thing where we just give white people benefit of the doubt as "not real racists" forever and ever no matter what they do?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:45
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:I just realized we're not even at a loving year yet holy poo poo What are you talking about, Scaramucci was fired eighteen months ago
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:45
|
|
|
Reflections85 posted:free will stuff I could say more, but really, Galen Strawson says it all much better than I could. Reflections85 posted:I think blame is important for two reasons. First, because I find retributionism appealing and have not been won over by the no-moral responsibility team, believe that blameworthiness and praiseworthiness of patients should change our attitudes about them, even if we have other reasons for action that compel us to a similar conclusion. That is to say, I think blame is a salient moral characteristic when we use morality to guide our actions and determine appropriate attitudes. Second, most people believe in blame and praise and act accordingly to blame and praise. So that seems to give me a pragmatic reason to care about it. Reflections85 posted:And, honestly, I find discussion of causes difficult because it seems very hard in most cases to know what the effects of actions will be. I'm also not saying violent resistance would have been bad. I'm with Tucholsky here: if you can save democracy and civilisation and civil liberties only with rifles, then you better get rifles. But if you can save them by other means, or if violence can't save it either, then that is clearly a different situation. And of course, more saliently, violence might make it much worse in some situations, and I think this is one. Reflections85 posted:But this also seems to have further implications to me though. The person who burned down the Reichstag was, as far as I can tell, an unemployed Dutch Communist. It seems like it would be very difficult to control all people who have ideological affinity to you, especially in situations where democracy is dying and violence has been intensely normalized. So even if it was the cause, it hardly seems to tell us what we should do about violent antifa now (especially when the US has a number of points of disanalogy with Weimar).
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:45
|
|
|
Chilichimp posted:Willem Dafosah Sherman? *Sherman stands on a hill overlooking Atlanta as it burns to the ground* "Chaos reigns!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:46
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:I'm going to laugh a lot if Charlottesville with its "defend the Lee monument" headline is the catalyst that prompts the entire South to take down all their Confederacy monuments. Since people hate history so much, we should also plow Gettysburg under and put in a waterpark or something
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:46
|
|
|
Does anybody know a good place to archive crawl for Reddit? I'm trying to find quotes from posts in r/altright (which has since been banned) that show support for neo-nazi ideologies and I haven't had any luck with finding something to view them. Notably, this post which was a "mission statement" listing their goals: https://www.reddit.com/r/altright/comments/4zr372/
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:48
|
|
|
boner confessor posted:*angrily cancels subscription to Cat Fancy magazine* perfect, perfect.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:48
|
|
|
Chilichimp posted:Yes, it's the battle hymn, but I mean literally the part of the song where he's singing "Glory Glory Hallelujah". I can see why they didn't go with "As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free"
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:49
|
|
|
MasterSlowPoke posted:Trump's first newspaper article was about him denying rent to black tenants. There's been no reason to think his views have changed in all his years. Sure, and that can easily be capitalization on racism, rather than actual racist feelings - ie society is/was racist, so he happily does racist things that benefit him because he doesn't give a poo poo about people or doing racist things. In practice, the two positions aren't really that different - the question is whether or not he's more like a white character from Get Out or a white character from American History X. Is he happy to use racism or does he actually hate minorities? I don't know, and both are horrible. Owlofcreamcheese posted:His dad was in the KKK, he was born in the 1940s and he has been sued multiple times for discrimination. Is there literally any reason at all to give him benefit of the doubt? Except that gross thing where we just give white people benefit of the doubt as "not real racists" forever and ever no matter what they do? A big part of my point is that it doesn't really matter. He's going to be a force that makes black lives worse regardless of whether his motivation is actually hating black people or lining his own pockets. theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Aug 14, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:49
|
|
|
Arrgytehpirate posted:Looks like WV has two confederate statues It really shouldn't have any, considering.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:49
|
|
|
Toaster Beef posted:That's cool, because I've seen way too many pearl-clutching middle-aged white women insisting both sides are bad and BLM violence is just as unacceptable. Yeah, there's plenty of those too, but I'm just trying to focus on the people who seem to be waking up to the reality of what's happening right now. I'm hoping a groundswell in their immediate social circles will help them see what's going on as well, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
The Shortest Path posted:Does anybody know a good place to archive crawl for Reddit? I'm trying to find quotes from posts in r/altright (which has since been banned) that show support for neo-nazi ideologies and I haven't had any luck with finding something to view them. It's partially quoted by a few other posts like: https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/comments/50hzxf/a_definitive_answer_to_the_question_what_is_the/ quote:The Alt Right is a racial movement and has always been a racial movement. Race is at the very core of the alt right and there is absolutely no way to be alt right without discussing racial realism, especially from a white perspective. The mainstream media was not lying to you when they said we are full of white nationalists, racial realists, and fascists. That is what we are and we really do not give a poo poo about tax cuts or other policy issues.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:Sure, and that can easily be capitalization on racism, rather than actual racist feelings - ie society is/was racist, so he happily does racist things that benefit him because he doesn't give a poo poo about people or doing racist things. But you bring up that in practice the two positions aren't that different. So why even care about the question when the conclusion ends the same way? It just extends the benefit of the doubt when the outcome is already known.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:51
|
|
|
Blue Footed Booby posted:
Someone probably already covered this but there was a weirdly specific diaspora of southern shitbags that glorify antebellum and, uh, midbellum culture to this day
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:51
|
|
loving Brazil?!
|
Chilichimp posted:Yes, it's the battle hymn, but I mean literally the part of the song where he's singing "Glory Glory Hallelujah". The shrine to the Confederacy plays "The Battle Hymn of the Republic"? 
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:51
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ryanbeckwith/status/897166829122179072 https://twitter.com/ryanbeckwith/status/897167248426762243 https://twitter.com/ryanbeckwith/status/897167685288689667 https://twitter.com/ryanbeckwith/status/897168175988711426
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:51
|
|
|
I missed approval ratings chat, but both Bushes, Carter, Truman and Nixon have had lower approval ratings (he's also tied with Johnson's lowest rating). His highest approval rating is the lowest of any president since 1937. Truman, Nixon and Bush II are the only Presidents who've beat him on highest DISapproval rating. That's pretty loving bad for less than nine months in.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:52
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:Truman, Nixon and Bush II are the only Presidents who've beat him on highest DISapproval rating. Truman: Post ww2/civil rights/massive corruption Nixon: Watergate Bush: Iraq/Katrina Trump: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:53
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:That's pretty loving bad for less than nine months in. Also, as above, for not having really done or been challenged by much of anything.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:54
|
|
|
Flip Yr Wig posted:Not so sure about that. The Nazis know that they're still marginal enough that Trump needs to occasionally distance himself from them. They'll interpret his begrudging tardiness as support. Yeah, this is exactly what happened during the campaign when Trump finally condemned the white supremacists after waffling for a few days first - they took his clearly-reluctant condemnation as just a token move that he had been forced by the media and the politicians to say. The fact that he resisted it for so long was the dogwhistle, and they heard it loud and clear.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
See, now this I'm OK with. Take them all and put them in a museum/gallery of Confederate things. Black bagging the statues and dragging them off to who knows where, less so.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:Someone probably already covered this but there was a weirdly specific diaspora of southern shitbags that glorify antebellum and, uh, midbellum culture to this day Don't forget the actual Nazis that moved there during the end of WW2.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:Sure, and that can easily be capitalization on racism, rather than actual racist feelings - ie society is/was racist, so he happily does racist things that benefit him because he doesn't give a poo poo about people or doing racist things. There was a story that came out during the election about his ownership of a book of Hitler speeches. That is very likely the only interest in history that Trump has ever taken. The dude probably doesn't want to put Omerosa in chains but he has made it very clear that the correct world order is one where the white man holds all the power and keeps the blacks in line with their superior abilities. His obsessive hatred of Obama, the only black man to actually lord over him, is also very tellling. He didn't denounce these nazi's because his ideal world is their world view. They are his people.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
Just imagine if there's a national disaster, he drops a nuclear bomb, and the Russian investigations accelerate. He could break all the records!
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
Red Baron posted:Recently within my social groups it seems like there's a bit of the "Rey meets Han Solo" moment going on for people. Like things have crystallized and then Han says "it's true. All of it." Even the worst person I know in regards to racial divides has take a step back and contemplated, however shallow. I noted this earlier in the thread. My facebook wall isn't awash with apologism for once, and it seems like Punching Nazi's going mainstream, which is nice.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
Drunk Theory posted:But you bring up that in practice the two positions aren't that different. So why even care about the question when the conclusion ends the same way? It just extends the benefit of the doubt when the outcome is already known.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
JehovahsWetness posted:It's partially quoted by a few other posts like: https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/comments/50hzxf/a_definitive_answer_to_the_question_what_is_the/ Thank you, this is very helpful. In other news... http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/346487-trump-approval-falls-to-lowest-level-ever-in-gallup-poll 61% disapproval, though this was before his new statement condemning nazis so it might change again soon.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
farraday posted:The shrine to the Confederacy plays "The Battle Hymn of the Republic"? it's a whole big thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pnKMFwb8mI
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:I'm not convinced he believes it overtly, rather than de facto believing it through unexamined specific beliefs. But the two aren't crazy different in practice. I don't think Trump thinks "black people are innately inferior to white people" in those terms, but he thinks that they don't face real discrimination, that BLM are just causing trouble, etc. I'm with you. Like, I'm not sure it's not just him reflecting the ideals of his supporters because he's an insecure narcissist and they have projected their beliefs onto him and support him unconditionally or some poo poo. I'm genuinely not sure the man has an original thought that wasn't put there by someone else or otherwise subconsciously (or even purposefully) adopted to ingratiate himself with whatever group.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 09:57 |
|
|
'Here's the thing,' I say to people. 'If one side is labeling themselves antifa - ANTI-fascist - who do you think makes up the other side?'
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2017 19:59
|
|
