|
I liked him in Captain Britain and M:13, and didn't he have a book for like 5 issues after the most recent Secret War?
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 01:47 |
|
|
I like the contrast between Black Knight's sword and Excalibur.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:27
|
|
|
Sinners Sandwich posted:Who is this Black Knight character with the Avengers in the 80s and why isn't he high profile in the modern comics Black Knight is a character that has faded from prominence not because "he went XTREME" (basically every other character in Marvel got over it just fine), IMHO, but because he's a character that doesn't really have a story anymore. His whole deal was that his uncle, Nathan Garrett, was Marvel Comics' first "Black Knight," a supervillain; Garrett, on his deathbed, made his nephew Dane Whitman promise to use his science for mankind's betterment, to make amends for him. So he did, and he got a magical Ebony Blade that gave him cool powers but if he used it to draw blood then Bad Things Would Happen. And that was cool and all. For a while he was basically Marvel's highest-profile character without a book of his own, flitting around in guest appearances in the Avengers and the Defenders and Marvel Premiere and a bunch of other books until he got turned into stone and his spirit was sent back in time to meet his own ancestor, the first Black Knight (look, it's complicated). Then he got revived, became an Avenger, and was a stalwart of the team in the '80s and '90s. The issue with the Black Knight is that once you've told the story of "oh no the Ebony Blade's curse is driving him crazy," which has been told like four times now, there really isn't anything else particularly interesting about him. They've tried giving him interesting story beats - a connection to Avalon in the mid-90s Heroes for Hire series, a move to Wierdworld in the newest attempt at a solo series, a cool marshal who happens to be a pacifist Muslim doctor who carries Excalibur in Captain Britain and MI-13, et cetera - but there just isn't enough about Dane Whitman that's interesting beyond "he has a sword and if he stabs you with it Bad Things happen to him" and occasionally remembering "oh yeah and he's a scientist too." He spent so long being a character defined by "what he does" that the idea of "who he is" never really got fleshed out, and there's just no there there anymore. Which is a shame because I think he's pretty awesome.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:28
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:I liked him in Captain Britain and M:13, and didn't he have a book for like 5 issues after the most recent Secret War? Yeah wasn't it a crossover with weirdworld or something
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:31
|
|
|
DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Black Knight is a character that has faded from prominence not because "he went XTREME" (basically every other character in Marvel got over it just fine), IMHO, but because he's a character that doesn't really have a story anymore. You forgot that time they chucked him into the Ultraverse.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:36
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:You forgot that time they chucked him into the Ultraverse. And I would have preferred to continue forgetting it but noooooooooooooo
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:42
|
|
|
DivineCoffeeBinge posted:And I would have preferred to continue forgetting it but noooooooooooooo ULTRAVERSE/AVENGERS WAS A THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:43
|
|
|
site posted:Yeah wasn't it a crossover with weirdworld or something nah, it was set in weirdworld but it didn't cross over with the Weirdworld book.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 03:46
|
|
|
DivineCoffeeBinge posted:a cool marshal who happens to be a pacifist Muslim doctor who carries Excalibur in Captain Britain and MI-13, et cetera - Faiza wasn't the Black Knight though? I don't even remember if she took a superhero name, but she was totally seperate from the Black Knight legacy? Or am I remembering that wrong?
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 10:08
|
|
|
DivineCoffeeBinge posted:The issue with the Black Knight is that once you've told the story of "oh no the Ebony Blade's curse is driving him crazy," which has been told like four times now, there really isn't anything else particularly interesting about him. They've tried giving him interesting story beats - a connection to Avalon in the mid-90s Heroes for Hire series, a move to Wierdworld in the newest attempt at a solo series, a cool marshal who happens to be a pacifist Muslim doctor who carries Excalibur in Captain Britain and MI-13, et cetera - but there just isn't enough about Dane Whitman that's interesting beyond "he has a sword and if he stabs you with it Bad Things happen to him" and occasionally remembering "oh yeah and he's a scientist too." "He has a magic sword but he's not allowed to do anything with it other than deflect the occasional laser and smack somebody with the flat side" is kind of lame. Although "he cuts people in half all the time" is kind of not a good fit for superhero comic books, so it's a tough spot for a character to be in.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 10:17
|
|
|
Soonmot posted:Faiza wasn't the Black Knight though? I don't even remember if she took a superhero name, but she was totally seperate from the Black Knight legacy? Or am I remembering that wrong? She wasn't the Black Knight, no, which is why I said "he gets a cool marshal" rather than "is replaced by." Faiza is awesome and should be in more comics, by the way. But yeah, the deal was essentially that he would show her how to be a superhero and she would keep an eye on him and keep him from going insane. Which was actually a really cool and interesting dynamic, but then Captain Britain and MI-13 ended because we cannot have nice things.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 11:17
|
|
|
Soonmot posted:Faiza wasn't the Black Knight though? I don't even remember if she took a superhero name, but she was totally seperate from the Black Knight legacy? Or am I remembering that wrong?
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 13:30
|
|
|
prefect posted:"He has a magic sword but he's not allowed to do anything with it other than deflect the occasional laser and smack somebody with the flat side" is kind of lame. Although "he cuts people in half all the time" is kind of not a good fit for superhero comic books, so it's a tough spot for a character to be in. I remember Black Knight in the Roy Thomas Avengers constantly making a point of mentioning that he was hitting enemies with the flat of his blade. You know, just in case kids thought he was actually hacking up people.  (Man, Roy loved him some phrases like "serried ranks.")
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 15:02
|
|
|
Did anyone ever take Black Knight aside and suggest maybe he should keep the blade on him but use a different weapon?
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 15:09
|
|
|
Or reforge the blade into a mace or something. Though Ebony Mace doesn't sound as cool.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 16:13
|
|
|
Schneider Heim posted:Or reforge the blade into a mace or something. Though Ebony Mace doesn't sound as cool. Looks awesome, though. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 16:17
|
|
|
prefect posted:Looks awesome, though. I don't know about this gritty reboot of Space Ghost...
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 16:22
|
|
|
Art's not as nice as the last gritty reboot of Space Ghost.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 16:25
|
|
|
Lobok posted:Did anyone ever take Black Knight aside and suggest maybe he should keep the blade on him but use a different weapon? IIRC thats what the lightsaber looking thing on the 90's Black Knight was; It was a sword that stunned people that he's use to fight human enemies, mainly breaking out the ebon blade for robots or angst.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 17:14
|
|
|
Also that period was when the Ebony Blade was stolen by his squire, who became the evil Bloodwraith, because '90s.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 23:36
|
|
|
Senior Woodchuck posted:Also that period was when the Ebony Blade was stolen by his squire, who became the evil Bloodwraith, because '90s. Still trapped in the borders of Slorenia 20 years after Kurt Busiek left him there, isn't he?
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2017 23:52
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:Black Knight carries the Ebony Blade, not Excalibur. Didn't he have Excalibur during the Heroes for Hire series in the late 90's?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 03:53
|
|
|
All this talk about the Black Knight and his character arc here and it's great to compare it with the chat over in the Movie thread which is about why people like Cable so much as a character. Cable gets stories. He gets agency. But he gets goals. Even if it's just "I have to stop Apocalypse and change the future. " or "Now that Apocalypse is dead what do I do with my life?" To "better raise the next mutant Messiah. " or "I should really stop the Red Skull desecration of Charles Xaiver brain." Where as Black Knight really hurts to find some purpose, it just comes naturally with Cable. It's fascinating really.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 06:51
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Didn't he have Excalibur during the Heroes for Hire series in the late 90's? He had the Sword of Light and the Shield of Night, which had energy absorption/redirection abilities. Though he got them from the Lady of the Lake, he never actually carried Excalibur.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2017 07:03
|
|
|
Why is Hal Jordan widely considered to be the greatest Green Lantern? Is there an in-universe explanation for this? Do the comic books actually state it outright, or is it more of a marketing thing? Or is he just the most popular and recognizable guy? I mean, popularity aside, I never understood why he's so highly-regarded, when he became Parallax and stuff. I grew up with Morrison's JLA and the JLU cartoon, and found Kyle and John more interesting.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 04:26
|
|
|
Schneider Heim posted:Why is Hal Jordan widely considered to be the greatest Green Lantern? Is there an in-universe explanation for this? Do the comic books actually state it outright, or is it more of a marketing thing? Or is he just the most popular and recognizable guy? They never really gave any good reasons for it back in the day. With the Johns run it's because he was the first to overcome the yellow impurity and because everything was better when Geoff Johns was 10.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 04:29
|
|
|
Schneider Heim posted:I mean, popularity aside, I never understood why he's so highly-regarded, when he became Parallax and stuff. I grew up with Morrison's JLA and the JLU cartoon, and found Kyle and John more interesting.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 05:07
|
|
|
And the posters grew up with Kyle, if that wasn't obvious.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 05:09
|
|
|
That's kinda disappointing. With Barry I understood that he was great because of Crisis on Infinite Earths, and that he cast a long shadow on the Flash's legacy, and that he was a pretty cool guy. Hal I just don't get.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 06:17
|
|
|
Schneider Heim posted:That's kinda disappointing. With Barry I understood that he was great because of Crisis on Infinite Earths, and that he cast a long shadow on the Flash's legacy, and that he was a pretty cool guy. Hal I just don't get. Hal just cares about the orange skins and purple skins, but doesn't care for the black skins.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 06:19
|
|
|
Schneider Heim posted:That's kinda disappointing. With Barry I understood that he was great because of Crisis on Infinite Earths, and that he cast a long shadow on the Flash's legacy, and that he was a pretty cool guy. Hal I just don't get. Real talk, the Flash comics for like 10 years prior to COIE were not good and they were going to cancel the Flash anyways which is why they let Wolfman kill him off in the crossover. If you line them up side by side Wally has overwhelmingly better stories and a much more solid and consistent history than Barry (once Waid shows up anyways).
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 06:19
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Real talk, the Flash comics for like 10 years prior to COIE were not good and they were going to cancel the Flash anyways which is why they let Wolfman kill him off in the crossover. If you line them up side by side Wally has overwhelmingly better stories and a much more solid and consistent history than Barry (once Waid shows up anyways). Come on its not like for two years they had a never ending storyline about Barry going of trial for killing of the reverse flash!
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 06:22
|
|
|
I like Wally more than Barry myself, my point was with Barry all the idolizing seemed more organic, but with Hal I find it more telling than showing. I mean, I could read more books about Hal to find out more but I don't feel like diving in because I don't find him interesting or sympathetic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 06:24
|
|
|
Schneider Heim posted:I like Wally more than Barry myself, my point was with Barry all the idolizing seemed more organic, but with Hal I find it more telling than showing. I mean, I could read more books about Hal to find out more but I don't feel like diving in because I don't find him interesting or sympathetic. Its dated as gently caress but the Green Lantern/Green Arrow series is worth a read.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 06:26
|
|
|
Here's my question about this situation. I think I can understand people wanting Hal back because I do remember hearing people saying they like him and his stories. I think they're probably been a bit of backlash to him after he came back. But I can't remember anyone talking about Barry Allen stories they liked. I mean all the good Flash stories that people talk about are the Wally stories. Part of which Johns spent the best parts of career writing. So while I can understand there being some people that wanted Hal I just don't see why people wanted Barry.
X-O fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Apr 6, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 06:26
|
|
|
Schneider Heim posted:I like Wally more than Barry myself, my point was with Barry all the idolizing seemed more organic, but with Hal I find it more telling than showing. I mean, I could read more books about Hal to find out more but I don't feel like diving in because I don't find him interesting or sympathetic. It's been ages but Waid did some interviews where he talked about how nobody understood why Wally was so fixated on Barry because nobody in the fandom really cared about Barry. People were absolutely enraged when they replaced Hal though, there was that stupid group that lobbied for Hal's return for years and even took out ads in Wizard and various other comic mags.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 06:27
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:And the posters grew up with Kyle, if that wasn't obvious. Actually Hal has been back so long a lot probably grew up with Hal. I did. He still kind of blows
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 06:29
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:People were absolutely enraged when they replaced Hal though, there was that stupid group that lobbied for Hal's return for years and even took out ads in Wizard and various other comic mags. I want to see these ads. I bet they're hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 06:30
|
|
|
X-O posted:I want to see these ads. I bet they're hilarious. I'm looking but the name of the group has slipped my mind. The text was like "WE WANT THE RIGHTFUL RESTORATION OF HAL AND THE CORPS TO EXIST ALONGSIDE KYLE RAYNER"
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 06:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 01:47 |
|
|
Rhyno posted:I'm looking but the name of the group has slipped my mind. The text was like "WE WANT THE RIGHTFUL RESTORATION OF HAL AND THE CORPS TO EXIST ALONGSIDE KYLE RAYNER" Paid for by G. Johns.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2017 06:33
|
|