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Digiwizzard posted:You are still not grasping the problem. The issue isn't that Nuclear Power Plants have initially low throughput, it's that we have no methods to construct nuclear power plants that don't involve fossil fuels. Every single nuclear power plant has to be subsidised via oil and coal. There is no battery powered heavy machinery mining for uranium. No electric freight trains that deliver this to the plant. No excavators or cranes or cement factories that don't use oil as basic inputs. In theory, we could power these things with just electricity but it's the exact same wishful thinking behind solar forges that can bootstrap continuous production of solar panels without fossil fuels. It works on paper but there are no functioning models of it anywhere. You would have to build this new infrastructure entirely from scratch, and the problem is that oil is projected to decline exponentially each year as demand increases but supply dwindles. Even if every single government in the world saw the scope of this problem and initiated strict and severe rationing, diverting all remaining petroleum reserves to critical functions like agriculture and emergency services while they focused solely on building new nuclear plants, you would still be unable to create enough Nuclear plants to meet demands before everything collapses. so grow some plants and make the oil from them take a fuckin pill dude
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Jul 13, 2017 05:32
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I'm so old I remember when Cold Fusion and Hydrogen Fuel Cells were the utopian energy sources 
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Jul 13, 2017 05:33
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Biofuels are a good example of something that can't work because it costs more energy than it saves. Ethanol has an appalingly bad EROEI, and you have to use up massive amounts of farmland to produce it, which just accelerates the whole enormous worldwide famine thing.
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Jul 13, 2017 05:37
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i dont get this argument at all. is it that mine carts can't be nuclear powered therefore nuclear power is impossible because thats what i'm getting and that's retarded
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Jul 13, 2017 05:38
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might as well not do anything ever due to the need to use petroleum based products
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Jul 13, 2017 05:39
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All of Obama's ineffectual high road taking and those three percentage points and a lost presidency are what he got for it.
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Jul 13, 2017 05:39
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Raskolnikov38 posted:i dont get this argument at all. is it that mine carts can't be nuclear powered therefore nuclear power is impossible p sure thats all hes got
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Jul 13, 2017 05:41
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Dairy Days posted:p sure thats all hes got It's basic Thermodynamics. Capitalism isn't going to keep the machines running on empty promises and wishful thinking.
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Jul 13, 2017 05:48
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Digiwizzard posted:You are still not grasping the problem. The issue isn't that Nuclear Power Plants have initially low throughput, it's that we have no methods to construct nuclear power plants that don't involve fossil fuels. Every single nuclear power plant has to be subsidised via oil and coal. There is no battery powered heavy machinery mining for uranium. No electric freight trains that deliver this to the plant. No excavators or cranes or cement factories that don't use oil as basic inputs. In theory, we could power these things with just electricity but it's the exact same wishful thinking behind solar forges that can bootstrap continuous production of solar panels without fossil fuels. It works on paper but there are no functioning models of it anywhere. You would have to build this new infrastructure entirely from scratch, and the problem is that oil is projected to decline exponentially each year as demand increases but supply dwindles. Even if every single government in the world saw the scope of this problem and initiated strict and severe rationing, diverting all remaining petroleum reserves to critical functions like agriculture and emergency services while they focused solely on building new nuclear plants, you would still be unable to create enough Nuclear plants to meet demands before everything collapses. Meanwhile we can mine coal pretty easily? What is your argument here?
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Jul 13, 2017 05:48
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https://twitter.com/joyannreid/status/885321602484842498 check the replies
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Jul 13, 2017 05:49
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https://twitter.com/keithellison/status/885207428975009792
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Jul 13, 2017 05:51
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Digiwizzard posted:You are still not grasping the problem. The issue isn't that Nuclear Power Plants have initially low throughput, it's that we have no methods to construct nuclear power plants that don't involve fossil fuels. Every single nuclear power plant has to be subsidised via oil and coal. There is no battery powered heavy machinery mining for uranium. No electric freight trains that deliver this to the plant. No excavators or cranes or cement factories that don't use oil as basic inputs. In theory, we could power these things with just electricity but it's the exact same wishful thinking behind solar forges that can bootstrap continuous production of solar panels without fossil fuels. It works on paper but there are no functioning models of it anywhere. You would have to build this new infrastructure entirely from scratch, and the problem is that oil is projected to decline exponentially each year as demand increases but supply dwindles. Even if every single government in the world saw the scope of this problem and initiated strict and severe rationing, diverting all remaining petroleum reserves to critical functions like agriculture and emergency services while they focused solely on building new nuclear plants, you would still be unable to create enough Nuclear plants to meet demands before everything collapses. But you seem to be taking it to the extreme conclusion, that energy shortages mean that any large infrastructure projects are effectively doomed, which is quite frankly absurd. Oil is not going to run out anytime soon, that's not the issue. There's plenty of untapped reserves in Venezuela and such. The issue is of increasing prices, as extraction costs increase. That imposes scarcity, or rather, the increase in prices will reflect an increasing scarcity, but it's the people with the lowest ability to pay that stop buying oil first - large construction projects will continue so long as they remain profitable (or rather - the shift in prices will lead to a shift in the allocation of extracted resources).
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Jul 13, 2017 05:52
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Digiwizzard posted:It's basic Thermodynamics. Capitalism isn't going to keep the machines running on empty promises and wishful thinking. then why do anything, entropy can't be permanently reversed
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Jul 13, 2017 05:54
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Digiwizzard posted:Biofuels are a good example of something that can't work because it costs more energy than it saves. Ethanol has an appalingly bad EROEI, and you have to use up massive amounts of farmland to produce it, which just accelerates the whole enormous worldwide famine thing. Okay, EROEI for nuclear is 75, we hook that up to a very inefficient system that has a EROEI of 0.1 to produce biodiesel or some other hydrocarbon fuel storage (navy's got some tech for that they're trying to use on aircraft carrier right now) That's still, what, EROEI of 7.5? Oil sands are hovering at... 5 or 6 currently. Not seeing a 'thermodynamically impossible' situation here.
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Jul 13, 2017 05:55
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Barry Convex posted:https://twitter.com/joyannreid/status/885321602484842498 incredible
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Jul 13, 2017 05:55
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Meanwhile we can mine coal pretty easily? What is your argument here? Pretty easily? Remaining coal ore reserves require more energy than ever to extract, and almost all of that infrastructure also runs on Oil. You can substitute some coal for oil, but energy is lost in the substitution process, and since there's a limited amount of Coal remaining that becomes exponentially more expensive to extract and transport..
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Jul 13, 2017 05:56
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Barry Convex posted:https://twitter.com/joyannreid/status/885321602484842498 i'm too focused on joy citing animeright.news
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Jul 13, 2017 05:56
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Raskolnikov38 posted:then why do anything, entropy can't be permanently reversed might as well crawl into a hole in the wall and die i guess
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Jul 13, 2017 05:59
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lol @ joy
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Jul 13, 2017 06:02
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Dairy Days posted:might as well crawl into a hole in the wall and die i guess You fool! We can't just make holes in walls, do you have any idea how much oil the hole making machines need?
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Jul 13, 2017 06:03
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All I'm saying is to prepare yourself guys. On some level you all understand that Capitalism is an enormous ponzi scheme, don't be shocked when you find out the people in charge have literally no plan for the future.
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Jul 13, 2017 06:09
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why the christ is joy reid even reading let alone linking to literal anime nazis
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Jul 13, 2017 06:12
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what did she post? looks like she deleted it
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Jul 13, 2017 06:16
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Darkman Fanpage posted:might as well not do anything ever due to the need to use petroleum based products finally i have an excuse for my lifestyle!!!!
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Jul 13, 2017 06:28
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https://twitter.com/pluralistberry/status/885359769514586112
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Jul 13, 2017 06:32
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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:what did she post? looks like she deleted it she linked a story about Kushner from animerightnews.info
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Jul 13, 2017 06:32
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Digiwizzard posted:All I'm saying is to prepare yourself guys. On some level you all understand that Capitalism is an enormous ponzi scheme, don't be shocked when you find out the people in charge have literally no plan for the future. And apparently since any potential solution doesn't involve violating the second law of thermodynamics, a plan for the future is literally impossible. So let's maybe try to use less bad solutions in the interim even if they aren't "Final" Solutions.
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Jul 13, 2017 06:35
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Jul 13, 2017 06:35
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annie may right dot news. fuckin' hell, reid.
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Jul 13, 2017 06:41
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oh, and new york dems are loving trash, in case y'all didn't already know that: https://twitter.com/WalkerBragman/status/885357305268711424
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Jul 13, 2017 06:47
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premptive lol @ neoliberals talking about the rich man's burden. because you know it'll happen
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Jul 13, 2017 06:48
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Guys just play Fate of the World and you'll soon become climate change experts. Also lol @ joy
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Jul 13, 2017 06:51
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lmao, oh joy....
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Jul 13, 2017 06:52
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joy ann reid, anime nazi
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Jul 13, 2017 06:56
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lmao https://twitter.com/pluralistberry/status/885358302229659648 it rules that reid can keep giving a platform to insane people and nazis and she'll never get in actual trouble for it
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Jul 13, 2017 06:58
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:And apparently since any potential solution doesn't involve violating the second law of thermodynamics, a plan for the future is literally impossible. So let's maybe try to use less bad solutions in the interim even if they aren't "Final" Solutions. There's a simple solution that doesen't involve violating the second law of thermodynamics, and that's Permaculture. I know it's not what people want to hear but it's just a fact of the problem we face. This system of endless growth and consumption has physical constraints and we've almost reached them. Learn to grow food now, learn skills that will be useful in a local economy that don't require lots of energy or resources. Civilisation existed prior to industrial Capitalism and now its going to change again into something different. We can work towards a better world and have something like Cuba, or just give up and admit we're totally powerless in the face of Capitalism as everyone starves. Digiwizzard has issued a correction as of 07:04 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 07:01
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I Am A Robot posted:Guys just play Fate of the World and you'll soon become climate change experts. good rear end game. even though I never did save the world. it's extremely grim while still introducing all kinds of far future solutions like climate change predicting ai. or sterilizing all the poors.
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Jul 13, 2017 07:01
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Taintrunner posted:joy ann reid, anime nazi gonna rule when she's adopted as the queen of Kekistan or whatever the gently caress those guys do
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Jul 13, 2017 07:07
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Digiwizzard posted:There's a simple solution that doesen't involve violating the second law of thermodynamics, and that's Permaculture. I know it's not what people want to hear but it's just a fact of the problem we face. This system of endless growth and consumption has physical constraints and we've almost reached them. oh so you're an anarcho-primitivst, does that one woman still draw that comic with the talking rabbits
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Jul 13, 2017 07:07
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if industrial civilization is on the way out im pretty okay with just dying
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Jul 13, 2017 07:10
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