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On a less contentious topic, if the set has foils (don't think they said but the Magister of Worth has been shown up as one, so will at least there will be promos) and if they opt to reprint commander set cards, this might be the first chance to get something like a non-oversize foil Vish Kal.
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Feb 13, 2014 17:25
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whydirt posted:Force of Will isn't nearly as good in limited as it is in Legacy/Vintage and wouldn't hurt the Conspiracy format itself if printed at uncommon. That said, there's no way that they'd flood the market by reprinting it as an uncommon. Wasteland makes even less sense as there aren't many non-basics in limited. Force of Will would absolutely warp a limited environment at uncommon. A good player is going to recognize the signs of a counterspell before playing a card that can win them the game. In Theros if you see your opponent has 1UU up you play around dissolve. You bait out an annul with a smaller enchantment spell before playing your god. The only way to play around Force of Will is to wait until your opponent has 1 card in hand and less than 5 mana up. Chained to the Rocks was initially uncommon and said "enchant mountain" instead of "enchant mountain you control." It was so good that people wouldn't play red. Powerful removal will 100% warp a limited environment. JerryLee posted:I tend to think that reprinting something at its former rarity is the default and doesn't have any sort of burden of proof attached to it. Maybe they try it out at that initial rarity, but do you really think they're going to just print it at that rarity without testing it?
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Feb 13, 2014 17:25
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Kabanaw posted:Force of Will would absolutely warp a limited environment at uncommon. A good player is going to recognize the signs of a counterspell before playing a card that can win them the game. In Theros if you see your opponent has 1UU up you play around dissolve. You bait out an annul with a smaller enchantment spell before playing your god. The only way to play around Force of Will is to wait until your opponent has 1 card in hand and less than 5 mana up. Force of Will doesn't see much use in peasant cubes, which is much closer to traditional limited than most other formats. It's just not that good unless you have lots of other good blue spells, especially instant speed card draw, around to back it up. For one thing, you can't splash it because you won't have other blue cards to pitch to it. Plus single target counters/removal are generally weaker in multiplayer. There are plenty of reasons not to print FoW at uncommon in Conspiracy, but breaking the format isn't really one of them. whydirt fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 17:37
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BizarroAzrael posted:On a less contentious topic, if the set has foils (don't think they said but the Magister of Worth has been shown up as one, so will at least there will be promos) and if they opt to reprint commander set cards, this might be the first chance to get something like a non-oversize foil Vish Kal. My Commander precon came with normal sized versions of all three commanders. Did they not do that at one point?
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Feb 13, 2014 17:38
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theironjef posted:My Commander precon came with normal sized versions of all three commanders. Did they not do that at one point? They weren't foils though.
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Feb 13, 2014 17:39
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theironjef posted:My Commander precon came with normal sized versions of all three commanders. Did they not do that at one point? Not foil, and Vish Kal wasn't intended to act as commander in his deck (since he's only 2 colours), his oversize card was a release promo I think.
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Feb 13, 2014 17:40
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whydirt posted:Force of Will doesn't see much use in peasant cubes, which is much closer to traditional limited than most other formats. It's just not that good unless you have lots of other good blue spells, especially instant speed card draw, around to back it up. For one thing, you can't splash it because you won't have other blue cards to pitch to it. Plus single target counters/removal are generally weaker in multiplayer. There are plenty of reasons not to print FoW at uncommon in Conspiracy, but breaking the format isn't really one of them. ITT people talking about how a reprint may or may not "break" a format they've seen 2 cards out of 210 of.
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Feb 13, 2014 17:42
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:I guess they could print it as an uncommon, if they want to avoid making money. How do they avoid making money by making a card everyone wants uncommon? I know making Force of Will uncommon is a retarded idea but how does making a really powerful card uncommon and nobody will want to trade them away make it so nobody buys their product? If anything everyone will eat up the packs.
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Feb 13, 2014 17:43
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Count Bleck posted:How do they avoid making money by making a card everyone wants uncommon? They will buy more of those packs if the card is rare I think is the point.
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Feb 13, 2014 17:44
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jassi007 posted:ITT people talking about how a reprint may or may not "break" a format they've seen 2 cards out of 210 of. Obviously I'm making some leaps of faith, but considering Force of Will has been around for almost the entire life of Magic, we have a pretty good idea of how it plays. We also understand how multiplayer free-for-all Magic generally plays and how FoW works in it. The only unknowns are the 60 new cards, which I doubt will be weird or different enough to change my answer. So yeah, I'm making some educated guesses, but I don't see where they're especially out of line of what we should expect. An uncommon Chained to the Rocks that targeted any Mountain would be fine in multiplayer - it's certainly not more powerful than Swords or Path in such a format. An efficiently costed Journey to Nowhere plays much differently in a free-for-all than 1v1. We're just going to have to agree to disagree, especially since this is all just theoretical wankery Force of Will isn't going to be reprinted as an uncommon in Conspiracy. VVVVVV whydirt fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 17:45
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whydirt posted:Force of Will doesn't see much use in peasant cubes, which is much closer to traditional limited than most other formats. It's just not that good unless you have lots of other good blue spells, especially instant speed card draw, around to back it up. For one thing, you can't splash it because you won't have other blue cards to pitch to it. Plus single target counters/removal are generally weaker in multiplayer. There are plenty of reasons not to print FoW at uncommon in Conspiracy, but breaking the format isn't really one of them. The problem isn't just if people have the card, it's that the threat of the card exists. People talk playing Stymied hopes as your original 23rd, using it to counter any card to show you have it, then board it out and hope your opponent plays around it for the next game. When players stayed out of red in a draft to play around chained to the rocks they didn't know their opponent would be playing white, let alone that they would have the card. Its existence in a format by itself means that if one of your opponents is playing blue the correct decision is to wait to play your powerful cards until it's not possible your opponent has it.
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Feb 13, 2014 17:46
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I'm just finishing up getting all the pieces for my Gaddock-led Kithkin Tribal EDH deck and now I'm eyeing Wort, Boggart Auntie to head up a black-red Boggart Tribal to keep in the same box. Make it like just carrying around a two-player board game with a good theme. On the plus side, it lets me avoid my least favorite aspect of Commander, tucks.
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Feb 13, 2014 17:47
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Force of Will might as well be written off as a part of the paper reserved list along with its friends like Wasteland. It's also why I'm not rebuying into Legacy after letting go of my stack because this poo poo has gotten out of control. Can't even afford to fall back into Modern.
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Feb 13, 2014 17:58
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Star Man posted:Force of Will might as well be written off as a part of the paper reserved list along with its friends like Wasteland. It's also why I'm not rebuying into Legacy after letting go of my stack because this poo poo has gotten out of control. Can't even afford to fall back into Modern. They'll reprint it someday, either a judge foil or part of FTV, or if for some reason they're desperate to move some product. Its a freebie in their pocket like Square doing HD ff7. Its free money when they need it, or good will, or something.
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Feb 13, 2014 18:13
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theironjef posted:I'm just finishing up getting all the pieces for my Gaddock-led Kithkin Tribal EDH deck and now I'm eyeing Wort, Boggart Auntie to head up a black-red Boggart Tribal to keep in the same box. Make it like just carrying around a two-player board game with a good theme. On the plus side, it lets me avoid my least favorite aspect of Commander, tucks. That sounds like a very fun matchup. You should post your decklists.
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Feb 13, 2014 18:45
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jassi007 posted:They'll reprint it someday, either a judge foil or part of FTV, or if for some reason they're desperate to move some product. poo poo, they put a number of Thragtusks into one deck of every event deck series for a year and it still didn't do a loving thing to its price. The only way it will be good enough is to do it in a controlled mass like Modern Masters, but bigger. I get why Force of Will and its cousins won't see the light of day in a Standard-legal set and have no problem with it. This poo poo with Legacy single prices is just loving bullshit. It feels good to sell a playset of Wastelands three years later for more than double what I got them for, but replacing the components of the Legacy decks I let go of is going to cost as much as a semester of school and Modern is creeping behind it. I entered Magic with the experience of two other TCGs behind me and knew that it was going to be a money sink and that power cards carry a price. It was easier in 2009, but not now. But I'm over dropping $400 for a playset of lands and can't keep up anymore.
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Feb 13, 2014 18:49
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Smashing Link posted:That sounds like a very fun matchup. You should post your decklists. Well I'm actually a little discouraged by the cruddy options in Boggarts specifically, and I definitely want to keep that folksy Lorwyn vibe, so I'm actually thinking I'll splash a few choice red goblins and black fairies in there to make it work.
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Feb 13, 2014 18:49
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Star Man posted:poo poo, they put a number of Thragtusks into one deck of every event deck series for a year and it still didn't do a loving thing to its price. Wow, I can't believe that putting a sub-$30 card into a $30 event deck didn't significantly effect its price.
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Feb 13, 2014 18:51
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Star Man posted:poo poo, they put a number of Thragtusks into one deck of every event deck series for a year and it still didn't do a loving thing to its price. And thus the argument for Force at uncommon: gently caress single prices! When "land that gets other land" costs over twice as much as "the biggest creature who literally bends time and is immune to being murdered" something's terribly loving wrong. I mean, gently caress, the most exciting thing they could do in M15 isn't printing a giant dragon that breathes fire and also lightning, but reprinting a hill with trees on it they already printed a decade ago. The hell is wrong with this game?
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Feb 13, 2014 19:02
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theironjef posted:Well I'm actually a little discouraged by the cruddy options in Boggarts specifically, and I definitely want to keep that folksy Lorwyn vibe, so I'm actually thinking I'll splash a few choice red goblins and black fairies in there to make it work. Yeah there are definitely some non-Lorwyn ones you might want to include, particularly Goblin Matron which is very on theme in a Wort deck.
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Feb 13, 2014 19:03
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Star Man posted:poo poo, they put a number of Thragtusks into one deck of every event deck series for a year and it still didn't do a loving thing to its price. Modern is the same way. I bought a playset of mistys and noble hierarchs off wonder weapon on a saturday, by the next saturday that I got them, the cards went up about $130 in value.
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Feb 13, 2014 19:15
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:And thus the argument for Force at uncommon: gently caress single prices! When "land that gets other land" costs over twice as much as "the biggest creature who literally bends time and is immune to being murdered" something's terribly loving wrong. Because even if that dragon breathed naked women for all the men in the land to enjoy, the card would still be an unplayable eight-drop. The hill with trees gets you the deserted island that lets you cast the undercosted fatass that gets stronger just because you sacrificed the hill with trees.
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Feb 13, 2014 19:19
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:And thus the argument for Force at uncommon: gently caress single prices! Which is not a valid argument because it's still way too good to be an uncommon and would warp whatever format it was in, whether it was a summer multiplayer set (gently caress no) or a Modern legal set or whatever. And because cratering prices is a thing WotC tries not to do because they really hate that they had to make a reserved list to start with.
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Feb 13, 2014 19:23
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:Wow, I can't believe that putting a sub-$30 card into a $30 event deck didn't significantly effect its price. It probably did to be honest. I bet Thragtusk would have cracked $40 at least during its Standard run if you hadn't been able to effectively buy one from Wizards for the price of a $25 event deck. It set a cap on the price.
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Feb 13, 2014 19:25
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:And thus the argument for Force at uncommon: gently caress single prices! When "land that gets other land" costs over twice as much as "the biggest creature who literally bends time and is immune to being murdered" something's terribly loving wrong. For real, Mana Bases are the worst part of getting into any format in this game. I get that they're printed at rare so they don't influence the limited formats, but I've talked to plenty of people whose biggest hurdle getting into Modern or Legacy is the fact that in even a moderately competitive deck you can spend hundreds on mana bases. I forget about this most of the time because I play limited more often, but recently my buddy bought a single Underground Sea for the price I spent on my entire latest standard deck (Murdergoats). This price can also be described as "as much as I spent on my EDH precon and on the one I bought for my girlfriend as a present." drat.
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Feb 13, 2014 19:55
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Death Bot posted:For real, Mana Bases are the worst part of getting into any format in this game. I get that they're printed at rare so they don't influence the limited formats, but I've talked to plenty of people whose biggest hurdle getting into Modern or Legacy is the fact that in even a moderately competitive deck you can spend hundreds on mana bases. Considering I just went out and bought Shock and Scry lands for my Murdergoats deck yesterday I can completely relate. The rest of the cards I have in the deck don't cost as much as those 8 lands! I traded in my Foil Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth last week. Those were $30 a piece and I had 4 in my Legacy deck...
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Feb 13, 2014 20:02
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No one's said what I think is the obvious anti-Force argument- if they reprinted cards like Force and Wasteland in Conspiracy, people would be opening packs just to try and pull those cards, which defeats the purpose of having a format ostensibly designed to be drafted. That or you'd see a fuckload of rare-drafting and people maybe just walking away from the draft after they've looked at all three packs, which might not be much better. Honestly I'd be surprised if they re-printed any big money card for this reason, though some new card will strike big in Legacy and everyone will play more Conspiracy trying to crack it. E: I've had a Legacy Goblins list I've been picking away at for the last six months or so, I have nearly all the creatures and most of the sideboard, but according to Deckbox's pricing I have nearly a grand in cards to go because I still have to hunt down playsets of Wasteland and Port, as well as a couple Plateaus and fetches. I don't think I'm going to finish it short of getting a huge raise at work tomorrow  E2: Right now I think the total cost of the deck, on that same metric, is about $1300If Wizards ever goes out of business or shuts down Magic, I want them to go insane and spend their remaining capital reprinting every card ever and just handing them out on the street. I'd buy a few packs. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 20:03
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jassi007 posted:Modern is the same way. I bought a playset of mistys and noble hierarchs off wonder weapon on a saturday, by the next saturday that I got them, the cards went up about $130 in value. The Hierarch makes sense with the Nacatl being unbanned, and of course the fetches are going to go up with modern coming up. Although the amount they went up was annoying. I still have to finish my playset of Mistys. Guess I'll be waiting for the reprint. I really want to know what happened to Mana Crypt. I got one 3 1/2 weeks ago for $120 and a week and a half later it jumped to $250.
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Feb 13, 2014 20:03
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Force of Will was released on MTGO as a rare in a Masters Edition set and as others have mentioned, fotw inspired cards have been at rare in the modern sets (disrupting shoal, pact of negation, etc). I think if it gets reprinted, it'll likely be a ftv or judge promo release.
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Feb 13, 2014 20:06
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Death Bot posted:For real, Mana Bases are the worst part of getting into any format in this game. I get that they're printed at rare so they don't influence the limited formats, but I've talked to plenty of people whose biggest hurdle getting into Modern or Legacy is the fact that in even a moderately competitive deck you can spend hundreds on mana bases. They aren't printed at rare because of limited. A lot of sets would love a set of good dual lands at uncommon. They are printed at rare to guarantee a set will have money cards and retain its value. It's often difficult to predict how much play rare and mythic spells will see, but good duals are always in demand.
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Feb 13, 2014 20:09
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TicalStal posted:Force of Will was released on MTGO as a rare in a Masters Edition set and as others have mentioned, fotw inspired cards have been at rare in the modern sets (disrupting shoal, pact of negation, etc). I think if it gets reprinted, it'll likely be a ftv or judge promo release. And we've kind of forgotten Vintage Masters in this whole thing. Is there any chance Force ISN'T printed in that set?
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Feb 13, 2014 20:17
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Kabanaw posted:And we've kind of forgotten Vintage Masters in this whole thing. Is there any chance Force ISN'T printed in that set? Sure, but that shouldn't have much or any effect on paper cards as it's mtgo only
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Feb 13, 2014 20:19
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Kabanaw posted:And we've kind of forgotten Vintage Masters in this whole thing. Is there any chance Force ISN'T printed in that set? Besides being on the pseudo MTGO reserved list.
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Feb 13, 2014 20:20
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Force of Will and Wasteland are not getting reprinted.
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Feb 13, 2014 20:21
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Prices for modern are out of control. Vendillion Clique and Cryptic Command have both gone up since I bought them on Monday. I just want events to fire at my LGS and these prices don't help that. Fetches are insanely priced. 
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Feb 13, 2014 20:24
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Vintage Masters is MTGO only and 99% Conspiracy will be a paper-only product since they're coming out at around the same time and because MTGO coders are stressed out enough as it is. I hope conspiracy has a bunch of cool reprints for Modern, but zero ridiculous money cards like Goyf, so that it's fun to draft, has cards that are actually useful after the draft, but doesn't encourage people to go out and just buy boxes to open/hoard.
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Feb 13, 2014 20:28
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Star Man posted:Besides being on the pseudo MTGO reserved list. I doubt they're that worried about the prices of it at this point. Modern Masters showed that people will open an insane amount of product and rares, like Arcbound Ravager, will still maintain a decent price.
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Feb 13, 2014 20:33
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Kabanaw posted:I doubt they're that worried about the prices of it at this point. Modern Masters showed that people will open an insane amount of product and rares, like Fixed that for you.
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Feb 13, 2014 20:34
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Got a question I'm hoping to get resolved. If I play a Gray Merchant of Asphodel is there any way for my opponent to block the damage done by the card as it enters the battlefield, can you cast an instant against it before it finishes "entering the battlefield"?
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Feb 13, 2014 20:48
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ScarletBrother posted:Fixed that for you. ...Yeah, that! I forgot Cryptic Command was in the set. It's worth more than it's ever been now.
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Feb 13, 2014 20:49
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