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KillHour posted:I think you'll find that after the dust settles, that kindergarten will be clearly inside Russia's borders, giving them a retroactive casus belli I laughed but I am willing to bet that in 5 years there will be people claiming pretty much that, but unironically.
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Feb 17, 2022 17:05
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Grouchio posted:My only wonder is if Putin has enough discipline in his army that he won't let their anger spiral out of control and accidentally engage with NATO. The closest NATO presence is in Poland.
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Feb 17, 2022 17:06
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The Ukrainians will be marching through red square in a month!
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Feb 17, 2022 17:11
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Putin knows he can just roll in and take Ukraine and except for the token opposition Ukraine can put up nobody else is going to do anything substantial enough to tax Putin/Russia more so than they already are doing.
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Feb 17, 2022 17:26
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There's already thousands of Ukrainians killed by Russia being buttheads so gently caress off with "token resistance".
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Feb 17, 2022 17:36
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Russian response to the U.S. https://tass.ru/politika/13744013 quote:The mention in this context of Russian obligations under the 1994 Budapest Memorandum has nothing to do with the intra-Ukrainian conflict and does not apply to circumstances resulting from the action of internal factors there. The loss of territorial integrity by the Ukrainian state is the result of the processes that have taken place within it. How is Russia responsible for a 7-year civil war between Ukrainians? Not even Russia believes this but they will continue to use it.
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Feb 17, 2022 18:14
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:How is Russia responsible for a 7-year civil war between Ukrainians? Not even Russia believes this but they will continue to use it. Because the Ukrainian military was actually on the edge of crushing the insurgents until the Russian military and mercenaries intervened.
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Feb 17, 2022 18:16
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No Russians are fighting in Ukraine though. All lies from the west. But yeah, there has been a consistent pattern of whenever Ukraine has successfully routed separatists out, the Russians have come in pretending to be more Ukrainian separatists and push Ukraine back.
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Feb 17, 2022 18:21
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:No Russians are fighting in Ukraine though. All lies from the west. Or if Ukrainians use their air forces then Russians borrow the rebels a BUK unit.
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Feb 17, 2022 18:27
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I think Donbas is the "intra-Ukrainian conflict" and Crimea invasion is the "circumstances resulting from the action of internal factors there". I find it funny that they even mention the Budapest memorandum when their only excuse for violating is literally "we thought it was a good idea to violate it" 
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Feb 17, 2022 18:29
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 knox_harrington posted:Pretty good RUSI article on the Ukraine situation
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Feb 17, 2022 18:38
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CommieGIR posted:Because the Ukrainian military was actually on the edge of crushing the insurgents until the Russian military and mercenaries intervened. Wait is it good for military might to crush the self-determination of internal minorities
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Feb 17, 2022 18:51
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VitalSigns posted:Wait is it good for military might to crush the self-determination of internal minorities ....I cannot wait until this turns into a "Well you see 1/6 wasn't bad and neither was Secession because self-determination"
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Feb 17, 2022 18:55
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CommieGIR posted:https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1494311748257652742?s=20&t=NJLBKvgbIWOENPADjdJEug Yeah, that's the throwaway "maximalist" condition that no one actually expects will happen. They want Minsk II, and they may get it.
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Feb 17, 2022 18:56
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Feb 17, 2022 18:59
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Majorian posted:Yeah, that's the throwaway "maximalist" condition that no one actually expects will happen. They want Minsk II, and they may get it. Minsk III. The separatists/Russians broke the terms of Minsk I and that led to Minsk II. If it gets renegotiated, this will be Minsk III
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Feb 17, 2022 19:11
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CommieGIR posted:....I cannot wait until this turns into a "Well you see 1/6 wasn't bad and neither was Secession because self-determination" Isn't deligitimizing the concept of secession Putin's argument for why Ukraine is part of Russia
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Feb 17, 2022 19:13
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VitalSigns posted:Isn't deligitimizing the concept of secession Putin's argument for why Ukraine is part of Russia No, delegitimizing the entire idea of Ukraine being a country is his argument. Since like, 2008. Not to mention: We were going to talk about oppression: Do you really want to use Putin as an example of an upstanding person to lead an intervention? The guy who has a history of murdering his opponents and jailing naysayers? CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Feb 17, 2022 |
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Feb 17, 2022 19:14
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VitalSigns posted:Wait is it good for military might to crush the self-determination of internal minorities It's good for the military to crush foreign militias engaging in murders and torture. Do you know what "Isolyatsya" is? If not, may be shut up about stuff you're ignorant off, less you swallow Putin's jackboots you are busy licking. https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1493672265942241280
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Feb 17, 2022 19:15
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Epicurius posted:Minsk III. The separatists/Russians broke the terms of Minsk I and that led to Minsk II. If it gets renegotiated, this will be Minsk III If it gets renegotiated, yes. My point is that Russia wants what was agreed upon in Minsk II to be ratified and enforced, putting the onus on Ukraine.
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Feb 17, 2022 19:16
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CommieGIR posted:No, delegitimizing the entire idea of Ukraine being a country is his argument. Since like, 2008. Do you agree with that argument, if secession is illegitimate then how can Ukraine be a country The talk about secession and self-determination seems weirdly selective and cynical. Secession from a country we want to see dismembered is fine, otherwise not? It seems to me that if people don't want to be ruled by Moscow, it is wrong to use the military to force them to be. But it also seems to me that if people don't want to be ruled by Kiev forcing them is wrong too. OddObserver posted:It's good for the military to crush foreign militias engaging in murders and torture. Well I think we agree on this
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Feb 17, 2022 19:20
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https://twitter.com/Intel_sky/status/1494372667549487108?s=20&t=cF-9BgKkE63IYeEmBS6tIw What’s really interesting is the winter “camo” on one of the trucks.
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Feb 17, 2022 19:24
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Private Speech posted:There's already thousands of Ukrainians killed by Russia being buttheads so gently caress off with "token resistance". Brave Ukranian militiaman fleeing surprise bombardment: "I did nazi that coming!!!!!!" (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 17, 2022 19:29
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Regarde Aduck posted:Brave Ukranian militiaman fleeing surprise bombardment: "I did nazi that coming!!!!!!" you're really dedicated to just making the worst possible posts, aren't you
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Feb 17, 2022 19:32
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Regarde Aduck posted:Brave Ukranian militiaman fleeing surprise bombardment: "I did nazi that coming!!!!!!" It would be appreciated if you would expand on what you meant here: Regarde Aduck posted:no one is falling for NATO's dumb false flag as several posters asked for you to support or explain this.
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Feb 17, 2022 19:32
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Regarde Aduck posted:Brave Ukranian militiaman fleeing surprise bombardment: "I did nazi that coming!!!!!!" Nice thing to say the morning when Russian bombardment injured a kindergarden teacher.
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Feb 17, 2022 19:37
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I don't know why anybody is still entertaining somebody who has never posted a single post that wasn't a combination of bad faith / trolling rants in service of a fascist, and outright racism.
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Feb 17, 2022 19:40
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steinrokkan posted:I don't know why anybody is still entertaining somebody who has never posted a single post that wasn't a combination of bad faith / trolling rants and outright racism. I don't know why anyone would ask them to post more.
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Feb 17, 2022 19:40
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https://twitter.com/felix_light/status/1494363262145683457
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Feb 17, 2022 19:45
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steinrokkan posted:I don't know why anybody is still entertaining somebody who has never posted a single post that wasn't a combination of bad faith / trolling rants in service of a fascist, and outright racism. Alchenar posted:I don't know why anyone would ask them to post more.
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Feb 17, 2022 19:45
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Fritz the Horse posted:The posts in question are not being ignored. And in fact, if it continues, he will be threadbanned.
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Feb 17, 2022 19:50
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DandyLion posted:Putin knows he can just roll in and take Ukraine and except for the token opposition Ukraine can put up nobody else is going to do anything substantial enough to tax Putin/Russia more so than they already are doing. Honeztly not sure where that comes from. Modern russia never done anything on that scale before and Ukraine has 250k army with combat experience.
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Feb 17, 2022 20:03
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Xarn posted:I laughed but I am willing to bet that in 5 years there will be people claiming pretty much that, but unironically. I mean, I heard people on another forum claiming that Georgia was genociding the Ossetians when Russia heroically just happened to be there to stop them with a full army after the Ossetians attacked Georgia. Clearly, Russia was wise and knew the Georgians were up to their usual genocidal ways, and not that the Ossetian attacks (which was just a false flag 'border incident' and nothing Georgia should have attacked over) were done with the intention of provoking Georgia into putting a stop to them. So...
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Feb 17, 2022 20:04
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Majorian posted:If it gets renegotiated, yes. My point is that Russia wants what was agreed upon in Minsk II to be ratified and enforced, putting the onus on Ukraine. Except Ukraine is and has substantially been in compliance with Minsk II, and Russia hasn't. Russia wants to reinterpret Minsk II to include the LPR and DPR, who aren't currently recognized as legitimate by Minsk II (and who, in reality, are controlled by Russia).
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Feb 17, 2022 20:07
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Epicurius posted:Except Ukraine is and has substantially been in compliance with Minsk II, and Russia hasn't. Russia wants to reinterpret Minsk II to include the LPR and DPR, who aren't currently recognized as legitimate by Minsk II (and who, in reality, are controlled by Russia). Russia is arguing that the already-existing language of Minsk II grants the LPR and DPR special status, including autonomous police forces ("people's militia") and judicial systems, among other things. I'm not saying that's the correct interpretation, but it's their position. That's what they're trying to wring out of Ukraine through this.
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Feb 17, 2022 20:20
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Majorian posted:Russia is arguing that the already-existing language of Minsk II grants the LPR and DPR special status, including autonomous police forces ("people's militia") and judicial systems, among other things. I'm not saying that's the correct interpretation, but it's their position. That's what they're trying to wring out of Ukraine through this. Russia is also hoping to destabilize the Ukrainian Economy enough where the EU won't even bother considering them for membership within the 2024-2025 timeperiod that Ukraine was hoping for, whereas Russia's more awful economy will look more viable. Short of invading, that's also a major Russian goal.
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Feb 17, 2022 20:27
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CommieGIR posted:Russia is also hoping to destabilize the Ukrainian Economy enough where the EU won't even bother considering them for membership within the 2024-2025 timeperiod that Ukraine was hoping for, whereas Russia's more awful economy will look more viable. Short of invading, that's also a major Russian goal. Yeah, that's definitely one of the broader goals. It won't matter how much Ukraine will resent Russia for pulling these stunts; they'll have to do business with Moscow to survive.
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Feb 17, 2022 20:32
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Sekenr posted:Honeztly not sure where that comes from. Modern russia never done anything on that scale before and Ukraine has 250k army with combat experience. Russia has a huge air force and Ukraine has little capacity to do more than harass it after about a day of SEAD work. The largest question about this whole thing is "just how good is the VVS at CAS"? If they are even halfway competent, this will go very bad very quickly for the Ukrainians. On one hand, they really haven't done particularly well in Syria. On the other, it didn't really look like they were trying that hard. The one kind of military aid that would absolutely flip the strategic calculus is substantial quantity of effective AA. The sad part is that that's the one thing that the west doesn't really have to give. Most western armies have been built under the assumption that they will always hold air superiority (which was not a bad assumption for most of the cold war), and so investment into land-based AA outside of navies has been kind of an afterthought.
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Feb 17, 2022 20:34
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Stopping by to say good luck Ukraine.
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Feb 17, 2022 20:35
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VitalSigns posted:Do you agree with that argument, if secession is illegitimate then how can Ukraine be a country
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Feb 17, 2022 20:35
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