Al! posted:

then aren't we just participating in that callout culture when we call out tumblrinas or whatever

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The key difference is that callout culture views reactionary attitudes as being inherent to the condition of being white, or male, or both, whereas leftists offer a way out of reaction by adopting socialist agendas. You can quit being a Nazi or a KKK member and choose to become a socialist, but you can't just quit being white or a man (arguably). What Tumblr folks want is to be left alone in their own social bubble where nobody can pick on them, and where they can maintain an illusion of power by setting the bounds of discourse within their own isolated community. The goal shouldn't be to maintain the alienating conditions where you can maintain the fantasy of being an otherkin, but rather to create conditions in which becoming non-human is actually possible. For an otherkin this may just be scifi for now, but for the transgender it's already medically possible - and one day may even be possible to have a full sexual reassignment.

Where liberalism fails as a truly liberationist ideology, is that the ability to shape the self according to its own ideals is limited by economic success - but a socialist or communist society can make such a thing possible for anyone.

Montasque posted:

Al! posted:

but at the same time, i don't see why we shouldn't just let them self-isolate, it's not going to pierce their bubble any faster, they're not holding weekly otherkin-power "marches" like the alt right, and it's not like the left is going to be helped at all at this point by bringing more liberals into the tent.

logikv9 posted:

everybody has their bubbles

tumblr is one
facebook is another
C-SPAM is one while individual threads are very much bubbles within that

I hate bubbles that are meant to keep those with positions / ideologies together mostly because it becomes a circlejerk but like bubbles that are meant to keep things chill, like BYOB

Montasque posted:

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

C-Spam is radically discoursive compared to the vast majority of political boards.

logikv9 posted:

even between left vs non-left one side is massively larger and the differences on paper are extremely minor

one side just happens to be easily trolled

logikv9 posted:

perhaps so, but only between left vs not as left

there isn't an unironic trump supporter on here outside of baloogan and you're not going to start a policy debate with him anytime soon

Al! posted:

idk it just seems to me that when we criticize the entirely non-politically-active and non-relevant otherkin types we open ourselves up to wedging depending on our personal view of where the cutoff is for socially acceptable identities (rarely is the criticism "their too self isolating" not paired with "and they're fuckin weirdos and their concerns are meaningless"), especially in the face of a very real publically demonstrating movement towards neofascism by young people who are being funded by rich and powerful people. it just seems like an open trap to me

Montasque posted:

We used to have some unironic Republicans but they all left or got ran off sometime during the primary. You can now find them in the GBS Trump thread.

Also the difference between the Republican Primary Thread posters and the Dem Primary thread posters was Night and Day....

Montasque posted:

Visidan posted:

UK is beyond hope at this point

logikv9 posted:

everybody has their bubbles

tumblr is one
facebook is another
C-SPAM is one while individual threads are very much bubbles within that

I hate bubbles that are meant to keep those with positions / ideologies together mostly because it becomes a circlejerk but like bubbles that are meant to keep things chill, like BYOB

Montasque posted:

We used to have some unironic Republicans but they all left or got ran off sometime during the primary. You can now find them in the GBS Trump thread.

logikv9 posted:

perhaps so, but only between left vs not as left

there isn't an unironic trump supporter on here outside of baloogan and you're not going to start a policy debate with him anytime soon

logikv9 posted:

with SA's long history the place has gone through cycles, like apparently the conservative/ Republican posters got cucked with Bush for example. also with trump it's also closely associated with racism especially since we're online, so many self-purged and found themselves on SA off sites that serve as mini-stormfronts

right now it's pretty leftist, and I think that's an extension from LF which was much more leftist. few more years, who knows? my bet is nothing, because lol who will still be posting a few years from now

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

reeelated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgs3xnY7oOU

Baloogan posted:

policy is debated in cspam?

Al! posted:

hmmmmmm i never thought of it that way maybe weird gay teens are the real nazis after all

Al! posted:

is there an alt reality of left pepes

Montasque posted:

Al! posted:

idk it just seems to me that when we criticize the entirely non-politically-active and non-relevant otherkin types we open ourselves up to wedging depending on our personal view of where the cutoff is for socially acceptable identities (rarely is the criticism "their too self isolating" not paired with "and they're fuckin weirdos and their concerns are meaningless"), especially in the face of a very real publically demonstrating movement towards neofascism by young people who are being funded by rich and powerful people. it just seems like an open trap to me

Helsing posted:

In the case of progressive internet sites and social media in the early 2010s she views the cultivation of a certain kind of leftist virtue (i.e. wokeness) as being a crucial resources for bloggers and social media personalities. Leftist call-out culture in the early 2010s, with its focus on identifying how various left-wing allies or figures had this or that "problematic" view, was a sort of improvised attempt to create a scarcity of virtue because this had become a precious resources for online personalities.

For Nagel this entire culture both pushed away potential recruits and also robbed the left of its ability to develop a compelling arguments (she also complains that left-liberal sites like Buzzfeed and Upworthy were, in her view, using cultural liberalism to attack or diminish any kind of economic leftism). At times Nagel's book comes off like a big effort post right out of the Suck Zone.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

Yeah I don't think we should do that.

I actually suspect what happened is that the callout cultures in these insular communities made a leap into the mainstream media. A lot of these self-enclosed internet communities like otherkins are pretty obscure even by goon standards, and we're weirdos who have megathreads on these groups. But the neurotic and schoolmarmey way of addressing social causes proliferated to (liberal) media sites like Huffington Post, which is one of the top visited websites in the world:

Baloogan posted:

this is because u kjnow i will win any policy debait

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The reason liberals have adopted this kind of language is because it's explicitly non-discoursive, and absolves them of the responsibility of being politically engaged. Everything is fine as it is, and anybody who says otherwise must be a Berniebro, and all leftists are white males.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The reason liberals have adopted this kind of language is because it's explicitly non-discoursive, and absolves them of the responsibility of being politically engaged. Everything is fine as it is, and anybody who says otherwise must be a Berniebro, and all leftists are white males.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

reeelated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgs3xnY7oOU

logikv9 posted:

perhaps so, but only between left vs not as left

there isn't an unironic trump supporter on here outside of baloogan and you're not going to start a policy debate with him anytime soon

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

The big story of the alt-right now, I think, is how it adjusts itself as a "subversive" force to one that defends power and the status quo. A lot of this is about Trump because he's all-consuming in the media, and that he's basically just a deranged, mob-connected game show host who happens to be president. We've already seen this with the rupture between the alt-right, which wants to move the culture in a more explicitly white nationalist direction, and the alt-lite. One of Spencer's lines is how "we'll hold Trump to account!" Sure, pal.

But Milo's poor book sales show the old shtick is in decline, even if the Mercers continue propping him up.

What was interesting about the U.K. election is that reading 4chan, you could tell their hearts weren't in it for May. Same with our resident sewer duck!