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Ohhh, that's good stuff - certainly brings back some of my past experiences, playing BB. I don't think I knew about column defences though - thanks! I think that tactic should come quite in handy, this league 
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Jun 21, 2021 01:20
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:can you please just elaborate instead of calling it bad in the most unhelpful way possible. please There's people who can better make an argument (booley? Strobe?) And it's been litigated before in this thread but my personal hatred for the game comes down to how hard it is to kill things and how hard it is to build an effectively team for some factions without buying multiple boxes so you can get one or two parts.
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Jun 21, 2021 01:49
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Major Isoor posted:Hey, sorry if this isn't technically the right thread for this question, but does anyone have tips for Lizardmen in Blood Bowl 2 (PC)? It's been years since I've played, and I've joined a league with some friends and friends-of-friends. I remember that Lizzies like punching and running, but no passing. I'm going up against Skaven first, so I think it should be a faaaiiirly even match, from memory. You'll need to be very careful about managing the clock to win. If rats have the ball, no team can expect to prevent them from scoring. Instead, you win by limiting the time they get with the ball in the first place. This means on your drive, you want to be methodical with your positioning and keep control of the ball all the way until your last turn, giving them only a single turn to score back (which isn't impossible, but it's very difficult for fresh teams). On their drive, you objective isn't so much to prevent them from scoring (you probably can't), but to put enough pressure on the ball that they can't hold it safely and force them to score early enough in the half that you have time to score back, giving you the 2-1 victory. The good news is that Skinks are quite good at scoring, so you don't need too much time to make that happen. I'd expect it to be a difficult match. Rats are a competitive team and they start out with a competent roster, while you're going to be hurting for core skills. Without Block, your Saurus won't be all that good at punishing rats for marking, and they're probably going to try to bog down your strong pieces so you can't make a formation to protect the ball. Try to keep your players close enough to support each other, and don't be afraid to Blitz with a Saurus that's already basing an opponent so you can reposition them afterwards. Keeping your positioning solid is more important that fishing for every possible punch.
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Jun 21, 2021 03:57
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Major Isoor posted:Hey, sorry if this isn't technically the right thread for this question, but does anyone have tips for Lizardmen in Blood Bowl 2 (PC)? It's been years since I've played, and I've joined a league with some friends and friends-of-friends. I remember that Lizzies like punching and running, but no passing. I'm going up against Skaven first, so I think it should be a faaaiiirly even match, from memory. Some other players gave you some good advice on how to play. I have some advice on how to build your team. For your starting team, you definitely want at least 5 sauruses, 4 skinks, and 2 rerolls. You actually want more than this but this is the absolute rock-bottom baseline. From there, your options are: Another saurus, another skink, and another more reroll. This is the team I'd probably go with as a new player. You start with all of your sauruses, and they need to start building up SPP as quickly as possible. Extra skinks aren't that useful because they dilute your SPP, and you can always fill in up to 11 players with journeymen if some of them get hurt. 3RR is a little tight for a pretty bashy team with no block, but it's a necessary sacrifice. Two more skinks and two more rerolls. This team is going to get up to its full ideal roster a bit faster, and be a little more forgiving early on at the cost of being less effective overall. You do eventually want 4RR as a new player, and while you can buy players after the start of the league for their normal cost, the price of rerolls doubles after the league starts. This isn't a wrong pick, especially as a new player. A kroxigor and another saurus. This is the maximum amount of muscle you can put in your starting team, and the kroxigor is very useful for pinning players down because of prehensile tail. Big guys can be a little daunting to handle as a new player, but this is one of the best big guys in the game so you are going to want to buy him at some point, and you do want to get SPP on your krox as fast as you can. The big downside is that you have 2RR, on a team with 3AGI ballhandlers and no block. That sucks, and you're going to be slow to earn the money to get up to the basic 3RR, let alone 4. I've played this team and it is playable, but I would not describe it as newbie-friendly. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Jun 21, 2021 |
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Jun 21, 2021 09:47
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Absolutely agree. Being very disciplined with your reroll use is a must for Lizards. Very seldom are you going to be safe to use a reroll on a block that goes wrong, because you likely will need it later for a pickup. This means you need to be able to identify when a turnover is going to ruin you instead of just being a nuisance - as well as arranging your team so that having a player go down doesn't immediately leave a huge gaping hole for the opposition to swarm through and bully the skink who still hasn't managed to pick up the ball. Unfortunately getting a sense of when a situation is dire enough that you need to reroll is largely down to experience. If you think about turnovers as ruining your action economy, you can get a bit of an idea - a turnover by your fifth Saurus to block is very different to a turnover by the first - but even so, Rerolls are so scarce for most of the Lizardmen starting lineups that you should think carefully before rerolling that awkward Both Down or Skull result.
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Jun 21, 2021 12:04
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On that note - it's entirely acceptable to not activate the Krox if it's standing somewhere important already. Its primary purpose is to take up space.
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Jun 21, 2021 22:53
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Well, I ended up having quite the stressful match, tonight! Went up against the Skaven team (as per my earlier post) which was played by a much more experienced player.... Compared to me, who hasn't played in many many years, without any time for a practice/refresher beforehand. Sounds like a good match-up so far I bet  I completely bungled the opening due to rushing my initial setup. As a result, my opponent just rushed through and scored a touchdown on his second turn...oof! After that, I messed up with the reroll rule - didn't see the option somehow, so I blew a stupid roll I had great odds for, by not rerolling. I also had THREE injuries, to his none. He scored another touchdown...urgh. Then, nearing half-time he kicked the ball into my half, my skinks got it and formed a loose cage, while my Saurus' pulverised their team. One injury and a bunch knocked down and stunned. On the last turn of the half, I rushed through an opening in their line and got a touchdown! At this point things are still not looking great...I'm hoping I can force a draw, but I just seem like I'm utterly outnumbered. Second half starts, and I kick into his half. He bungles it completely, though! Drops the ball in the middle of his half of the pitch. While my Saurus' caused two more injuries and bowled over a couple more, my skinks tore through an unprotected flank and grabbed the ball! While three bashed-up the poor would-be catcher, my ball-bearer legged it and scored a touchdown in my second turn, much like his touchdown at the start of the game. I was super happy at this point - I've got a tie! Just had to hold it together. So we had a big brawl in the middle while my skinks held back slightly, covering any holes. This was probably the longest gap between touchdowns. He tried running through a gap with the ball past a skink, but my skink bowled him over! (Those guys have seriously been doing all the work, while my Saurus' have mostly been punching people and cloud gazing) My skink then grabbed the ball and, with some assistance from my other skinks forming a loose barrier, I managed to get another touchdown! 3-2! After that, my opponent ALMOST scored right before the end, but my skinks kept performing like miracle men, by tripping all the rats and mobbing the sucker with the ball. They got near my endzone by the time the bell rang, but he had been swamped, and there was no way he was getting anywhere - with no viable means to get reinforcements, either. Great, tense game, in the end! Sorry for the wall of text - I figured I'd let you know how it went, after the tips earlier. Now I just think I need to get some actual practice in, before next game haha
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Jun 22, 2021 14:44
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Major Isoor posted:Great, tense game, in the end! This was a cool match, thanks for posting about it!
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Jun 22, 2021 15:03
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Major Isoor posted:Well, I ended up having quite the stressful match, tonight! Went up against the Skaven team (as per my earlier post) which was played by a much more experienced player.... Compared to me, who hasn't played in many many years, without any time for a practice/refresher beforehand. Sounds like a good match-up so far I bet https://soundcloud.com/user-789376840/thats-blood-bowl
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Jun 22, 2021 15:09
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Xenomrph posted:Seconding this It's been a while for me but my problems were that you spend a lot of time failing to do things and team construction is pretty wack and doesn't do a good job of making it feel like you're controlling an elite assassination team. I'd be very interested in a new edition of KT but at the moment you'd get a more solid ruleset by playing 9th edition combat patrols or something
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Jun 22, 2021 16:06
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What is Warcry like? If it’s better than Kill Team, it be possible to adapt the rule set for that into something like Kill Team?
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Jun 22, 2021 17:31
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Xenomrph posted:What is Warcry like? If it’s better than Kill Team, it be possible to adapt the rule set for that into something like Kill Team? Warcry is pretty neat as beer and pretzels games, but I think it'll be hard to adapt the rules into the more shooty universe of 40K. It's often way too hard to kill anything in Kill Team, while everything can be incredibly deadly in Warcry. Basically, Kill Team uses the 40K 8. edition rules, and Warcry has it's own ruleset that includes a pile of health for every model, a simplified combat system that means that anyone can do a lot of damage if you roll 6s, and it has a faction ability system that runs on rolling doubles/triples/quads. The most difficult part in adapting the rules would probably be balancing everything in a way that makes sense, and is fair. I'd just play Shadow War instead, I prefer the crunchier rules to Kill Team's simplified system.
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Jun 22, 2021 18:58
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It's insanely hosed up that sisters still haven't had a KT update to use Seraphim
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Jun 22, 2021 19:15
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Coming up with enough granularity for all the weapon variants in 40k might be a bit of a task, but I'd be willing to play a 40k variant of Warcry over another game of Kill Team mostly based on the fact that even if I was getting housed, the games are quick enough that getting 3-5 in a session/evening is reasonable. Bolt on a modified version of the 1995 Necromunda or Mordheim campaign system and you would probably have about the best GW RPG-lite skirmish game you could ask for.
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Jun 22, 2021 22:05
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I definitely remember seeing someone a while back mock up a whole Necromunda hack of the WarCry rules. I definitely think 40K-Cry would be doable, you'd just need a group who was comfortable rolling up their sleeves and messing around and working together to find balance. Fake edit: Ah, yes! This guy on Twitter mocked a bunch of stuff up: https://twitter.com/golongdesign/status/1184198938783404033?s=20
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Jun 22, 2021 23:34
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Cease to Hope posted:This was a cool match, thanks for posting about it! Thanks! I was definitely kicking myself a LOT about that match, up until I managed to even the score...just pure inattention and forgetfulness, that handed my opponent those early points. Still though, it was a tense, high-scoring match, and was pretty fun in the end! Even more so since I think we both only have one player out for the next match, with no serious injuries. I think next round I'm up against a battered wood elf team, (or one of those elf teams anyway) so hopefully I can grab the ball early and hang onto it while I beat the snot out of most of their players, then get a touchdown late in the first half. (That's my plan, anyway! Just you wait, I'll hand them a touchdown in round one again ) I think I'll have to get some solid practice in beforehand this time, that's for sure. Since despite my advantage in numbers, I'm pretty sure I'm the least experienced player in the league by a wide margin. So we'll see how it goes!
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Jun 23, 2021 01:05
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Someone asked the same questions about KT earlier in this thread and there was a verbose back and forth discussion about it both for and against, so I'd search through here and read it.
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Jun 23, 2021 04:07
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The thread is 240 pages long, do you have an estimate (pages or dates) of about how long ago it was?
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Jun 23, 2021 07:37
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Major Isoor posted:Thanks! I was definitely kicking myself a LOT about that match, up until I managed to even the score...just pure inattention and forgetfulness, that handed my opponent those early points. Still though, it was a tense, high-scoring match, and was pretty fun in the end! Even more so since I think we both only have one player out for the next match, with no serious injuries. Nice work on the win! Did any of your players get enough experience to level up? If so, what skills did you go for? Wood Elves are another tough matchup for rookie Lizards, because the Wardancers can seriously threaten your ball carrier in any of the common formations you'd use against other teams. Wardancers can leap up to two squares as part of their move, which means they can get into cages, and because your ball handlers are only Strength 2 they will get two dice on the blitz if they position player correctly to negate your caging players' assists. You can try to defend against this by setting up a deep, two layered cage around your ball carrier, which is kind of frustrating because it will take a lot of your players away from the line. As before, getting player removals will be really helpful, although Wood Elves can be vicious for turning things around even when players down. On Defence, it's similar to before - they aren't quite as fast but they are much more consistent at ball handling and dodging. Every player is a scoring threat.
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Jun 23, 2021 07:58
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Stoping rookie lizards with woodies is basically to stay a square away in a 2 deep column and watch them fail their blitzes and blitz a skink every turn with the wardancer. With block he should be able to hurt them a bit. X X X X X X
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Jun 23, 2021 08:23
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Giant Ethicist posted:I definitely remember seeing someone a while back mock up a whole Necromunda hack of the WarCry rules. I definitely think 40K-Cry would be doable, you'd just need a group who was comfortable rolling up their sleeves and messing around and working together to find balance. Oooh I live for this poo poo thanks
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Jun 23, 2021 09:09
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So Friday is the time I buy either Necromunda, KillTeam or bloodbowl. You lovely people have given me decent advice, but then I hear that bloodbowl minis are hard to get and so are necromunda and half the sets don’t come with anything much past a starting game in terms of rules and skill cards etc. Torn. I was dead set, but now I’m torn.
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Jun 23, 2021 13:16
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Rinzla posted:So Friday is the time I buy either Necromunda, KillTeam or bloodbowl. You lovely people have given me decent advice, but then I hear that bloodbowl minis are hard to get and so are necromunda and half the sets don’t come with anything much past a starting game in terms of rules and skill cards etc. Blood Bowl minis are relatively easy to convert and available from various third-party sellers. There's basically no WYSIWYG requirement and people are used to the game being out of print or scarce for literal decades now. There's nothing stopping you from playing any team in the game with chess pieces if that's what you want to do.
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Jun 23, 2021 13:23
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Thanks for the tips, guys! And that's great stuff, Squibsy. I'll do some practice rounds. What skills should I be going for, do you think? Block on Saurus, and...whatever a dodgy one is on skinks? IIRC I got 80k from my winnings, so HOPEFULLY I have around 100k...maybe I can get a big krox? Not sure if it's worth it yet though - more cheapos might be better, to pad out my numbers...hmm
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Jun 23, 2021 13:45
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Major Isoor posted:IIRC I got 80k from my winnings, so HOPEFULLY I have around 100k...maybe I can get a big krox? Not sure if it's worth it yet though - more cheapos might be better, to pad out my numbers...hmm You always want your positional players first. There's no team that really wants excess generic players, especially since you get topped up to 11 with journeymen if you can't hit 11. For anyone interested in playing (or just talking about) Blood Bowl in general and Blood Bowl 2 for PC in particular, Mapgoons has an ongoing channel and seasonal league. Right now, we're gearing up for season 6, and seasons run about 1-2 months. Signups end in about a week, and players of all experience levels are welcome to come join.
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Jun 23, 2021 14:15
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Not that you need a harder time deciding, but Blitz Bowl was (and probably still is) on clearance for $20USD at B&N and you only need half as many figures to play.
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Jun 23, 2021 14:31
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moths posted:Not that you need a harder time deciding, but Blitz Bowl was (and probably still is) on clearance for $20USD at B&N and you only need half as many figures to play. If you just want to play one of those games for the game's sake, Blood Bowl 2 for PC regularly goes on sale for a pittance. It's on IndieGala for $7.50 USD at the moment. It really comes down to what you're looking for.
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Jun 23, 2021 15:27
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Cease to Hope posted:If you just want to play one of those games for the game's sake, Blood Bowl 2 for PC regularly goes on sale for a pittance. It's on IndieGala for $7.50 USD at the moment. Yeah, Blood Bowl 2 is constantly on sale so try it out there before you buy anything. I am a huge Blood Bowl fan but not everyone enjoys the self inflicted horror that Blood Bowl can be!
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Jun 23, 2021 15:42
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Major Isoor posted:Thanks for the tips, guys! And that's great stuff, Squibsy. I'll do some practice rounds. What skills should I be going for, do you think? Block on Saurus, and...whatever a dodgy one is on skinks? I don't know what you started with, but getting your Kroxigor should be a higher priority than getting more skinks. Once you have all six Saurus and a Krox you can try to save up for a fourth reroll as Cease to Hope suggested, or you can get a spare skink (probably just one) to give you a bench. As for skills, my general advice would be: - Saurus: Usually Block first, but take Break Tackle on your second Saurus to get a level. This allows that player to make one dodge per turn with equivalent odds to an Elf, which is very handy for being able to make a crucial blitz. Once you have those skills, Mighty Blow, Guard and Tackle are all great choices for Saurus. One Saurus (the Break Tackle one) could also benefit from getting Frenzy. Generally I would ignore double results and +Agility as well as +Armour. Mostly ignore +Movement and +Strength in favour of the other core skills. If you have a Saurus who already has Block then +Strength would be tight, and a Saurus with Break Tackle could get a lot of use out of +Movement... but the core skills are really solid and highly desirable. - Skink: Normal skills for these guys that you might want to take include: Side Step, Diving Tackle, Catch, Sprint, Sure Feet. Mostly the rest of their normal skills are too situational to make use of. Double skills for them are BLOCK and Sure Hands, and maybe even Guard if you end up being blessed with lots of skink doubles. +Agility, +Move and +Strength are all excellent on these guys. If you have a Skink that makes it to level 2 (16+SPP) without getting a stat boost or a double skill, hard-nosed coaches would advocate sacking it and starting again. That's a brutal approach but it makes sense because stacking Agility skills on these players makes them bloat your team value without giving them that much extra utility. - Krox: You really, really want Block on this guy. Somewhat like with Skinks, you could (maybe should) consider firing this player if he gets to 16+SPP without getting a double roll. If you can't bring yourself to sack him when he gets his second normal skill up, you could take Juggernaut, which gives some of the protection that Block does... but it is a pale imitation. Other things that are useful for him are Break Tackle, Guard, Piling On, Stand Firm. If he gets more doubles after Block, then Pro, Tackle or Frenzy are great choices. Ignore +Agility and +Armour, but +Move and +Strength are good - but if you get a double 5 or a double 6 result on the level up roll, take Block first. Squibsy fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 15:54
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And Kill Team is basically a squad, a leader, and a specialist or two from a 40K faction you've had your eye on for a while anyway.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:04
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Tbh, I think you nailed it with the chess pieces. I can just buy something of relative size that kinda looks how it’s supposed to and be done with it if I can’t find the legit model.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:11
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Rinzla posted:So Friday is the time I buy either Necromunda, KillTeam or bloodbowl. You lovely people have given me decent advice, but then I hear that bloodbowl minis are hard to get and so are necromunda and half the sets don’t come with anything much past a starting game in terms of rules and skill cards etc. What country are you in? Because BB and NM minis are pretty drat easy to find in the US. FW stuff can be a pain to source, but, frankly, you don't need 90% of those models - Star Players are only really used in inducements if your team value is way lower than your opponent's, and Hangers On / Hired Guns can be represented with just about anything outside your normal gang aesthetic (or even within it, if you're so inclined.) The Blood Bowl core book has all the team stats you'll need, and you don't need the team cards IMO. Same with the NM cards, though you will at least need the Gangs of the Underhive book for anything outside the starter. To be frank, even though these are technically skirmish size game systems, none of them are particularly cheap - have you tried getting in any demos prior to buying? the last thing you want to do is drop $100+ and find out you absolutely hate the random bullshit that can happen in these games (looking at you, BB.)
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Jun 23, 2021 16:59
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berzerkmonkey posted:What country are you in? Because BB and NM minis are pretty drat easy to find in the US. FW stuff can be a pain to source, but, frankly, you don't need 90% of those models - Star Players are only really used in inducements if your team value is way lower than your opponent's, and Hangers On / Hired Guns can be represented with just about anything outside your normal gang aesthetic (or even within it, if you're so inclined.) Ive played pc bloodbowl. Necromunda is new to me. I’m in the U.K so I’m not sure what I can and can’t get but I’ve been thinking. Since I’m only playing with a buddy, who really cares what I use to signify what guy on a board. I like having the right stuff but I can make exceptions too at this point. And with the massive selection of minis for other things, I’m sure I can manage to mangle something together I’d be happy with. I guess I was just trying to grab what I wanted in one go with little effort.
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Jun 23, 2021 17:11
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Anywhere in the UK is a day trip to WHW so I don't see getting models as an issue.
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Jun 23, 2021 17:15
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Beerdeer posted:Anywhere in the UK is a day trip to WHW so I don't see getting models as an issue. Like an hour away from me. I didn’t even realise that existed!
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Jun 23, 2021 17:16
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Cease to Hope posted:You always want your positional players first. There's no team that really wants excess generic players, especially since you get topped up to 11 with journeymen if you can't hit 11. Most teams are going to want a sub or two on the bench in addition to their full roster, with more depth becoming more desirable at higher levels of development since linos start having a hard time staying on the pitch once all the bash teams have their killers developed. However, that's definitely the kind of thing you buy after your team has everything else set up. Lizards in particular don't get much use from a bench though. The only thing you can get is extra Skinks, who don't contribute much to the field, don't take up space the way a basic lineman can, and are fairly expensive on top of all that, so it typically isn't worth the price. As far as Lizard Skills - seconding that Block is the one you really want on everybody ASAP because it makes them much less likely to turnover on their own blocks and also harder for your opposition to get them out of the way. I'll also second Break Tackle as a high-priority followup. Without it, your Lizards are essentially immobilized if they get based up, and it can be all too easy for your opponent to take a critical piece out of the play by slapping a Zombie on them. Break Tackle gives you a piece that can't have their mobility denied so easily, meaning it can always threaten to make a play. You probably also want to be building your Saurs for specific jobs. For example, you might build one Saurus as a dedicated Blitzer with Break Tackle and Tackle that can always threaten an exposed player, while another Saurus gets Guard and Stand Firm to be a daunting Pillar on the line. Frenzy is another good pickup on a Blitzing Saurus. Their combination of speed and strength lets them be tremendous bullies with the skill. I would generally advice against taking Piling On on any Lizard pieces. While it's a very powerful skill and Lizards absolutely want to be picking up a lot of Might Blow, your primary method for winning the game is using your high-strength pieces to dominate the positioning game. When you've only got seven of them, you want them all on their feet to make that happen.
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Jun 23, 2021 18:11
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Picked up the undead Bloodbowl team Champions of Death. I played undead on pc so, looking forward to playing them on the table top!
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Jun 24, 2021 09:56
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:The rules are godawful, I'd consider getting into combat patrols or something instead Counterpoint: Kill team is good, actually Xenomrph posted:The thread is 240 pages long, do you have an estimate (pages or dates) of about how long ago it was? You can look at my posts in this thread to find the discussion. The arguments for Kill Team Bad are: 1. Models are more survivable. The addition of the Injury Roll means it takes statistically more hits to take a model down. 2. For some factions in the game, building a competitive kill team is prohibitively expensive (if you use only GW kits) because you need a lot of special weapons you usually only get one of in a pack. As a Kill Team Enjoyer my counterpoints are: 1. So what. Higher mortality doesn't equal better games. If you find more durable models offputting, that is a perfectly valid opinion which I respect but I don't think it is a valid indictment of the game. In most of my games of KT the majority of models end up dead. Completely tabling a opponent ala 40k is almost impossible, but models die a lot in KT. 2. Is perfectly valid. However, those factions are outliers. There are lots of other factions where one or two boxes gets you basically anything you might want for a team. Honestly, you should just give KT a shot and decide for yourself. Some people hate KT, others love it. You don't know which one you are until you try. Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Jun 24, 2021 |
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Jun 24, 2021 15:58
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Pretty nice how most of my Gravelords can be dropped into Warcry now! https://www.warhammer-community.com...jlm6ctznbmDIdkw
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Jun 24, 2021 17:44
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Geisladisk posted:The arguments for Kill Team Bad are: Frankly, i wouldn't see this as a bad thing. You're playing The Dirty Dozen: 40K Edition, and getting your dudes one shotted isn't very cinematic.
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Jun 24, 2021 18:39
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