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The 'nation ruining prevention' feature seems like its more of a 'no blitzkrieging weak nations after losing territory' feature. Like if I'm Scotland and own all of Ireland and bit of England, it's not nation-ruining for me to truce-break a released Irish minor or Northumbria or something. It's nation-preserving.
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Nov 20, 2015 19:36
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Palleon posted:Thanks. I'm quasi going for WC, but I probably will just get close since I'm never comfortable doing the amount of micromanagement hell that seems to be required to get everything done in time. But I do plan to push out as far as I can go, so religious seems to be a better choice (and my goal is to eventually go Protestant). Yeah I definitely recommend Religious, then. You will be pretty starved for Admin points for the first century or so, since you want tech 10 for free westernization on top of coring and you're taking two Admin idea lines. The first two-three Administrative ideas to unlock the coring discount there and the -33% from your NIs, then the first two in Religious (CB and +1 missionary) are the best bang for your buck imo. The rest can wait for when you have a surplus of points. Protestant is cool and good but honestly in retrospect Catholic would have been equally good if not better. The main advantage to Protestant is it makes it easier to snag control of the HRE by buddying or vassalizing Protestant electors, then winning the League War. However if the Protestant CoRs spawn in weak nations it might be better to just stay Catholic, stomp down the Reformation as long as you have some way to get yourself elected Emperor. Though taking Vienna from Austria hurts them pretty hard. Protestantism may have slightly better bonuses (particularly I'm thinking the -1 RR decision and -1 RR Church Power), but I think you should choose whether to convert based on the situation when the CoRs spawn. If you can luck into a PU or two that's HUGE. Keep in mind going Protestant will tank your Religious Unity and you'll have a few decades of low manpower while you put down revolts and convert stuff. Highly recommend trying to grab Jerusalem and Mecca before the Reformation, shouldn't be tough. Staying Catholic wouldn't give you as much of a rough patch. Another random tip related to religion-- the Janissary Decadence disaster where you can lose them starts building if you are <70 AT or if your ruler has less than 5 in all stats. Notably, it won't progress if another disaster is occurring, and you'll have Religious Turmoil for quite a while. I almost lost the Janissaries but through a little bit of fuckery (not letting my Religious Unity go above 90% to end Religious Turmoil) I managed to wait another decade until my ruler died and the 5/2/3 heir succeeded. So keep that in the back of your mind I guess, Religious Turmoil is a pretty tame disaster and you can use it to block Janissary Decadence for a bit if necessary.
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Nov 20, 2015 19:36
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Well, that sucked. My army got defeated and didn't retreat anywhere, so they immediately got into a second fight and got stackwiped. They weren't cut off or trapped by forts, they were on my territory with lots of space to retreat into.
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Nov 20, 2015 19:40
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Larry Parrish posted:The 'nation ruining prevention' feature seems like its more of a 'no blitzkrieging weak nations after losing territory' feature. Like if I'm Scotland and own all of Ireland and bit of England, it's not nation-ruining for me to truce-break a released Irish minor or Northumbria or something. It's nation-preserving. I think those restrictions apply only to players who recently lost a war, so they dont get dogpiled again and again but I might be misunderstanding though
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Nov 20, 2015 19:48
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Oh and it would be cool if primary nations for cultures was also dynamic now. Like if the Ottomans somehow lose a bunch of territory to a different Turkish nation, they should eventually lose primary nation status for Turkish. Because otherwise you get stuff like the Ottomans being able to spring back from almost any defeat because they never lose their cores, ever. Turkish and uhh Persian are the only cultures I can think of right now that are annoying because of this, though.
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Nov 20, 2015 19:58
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Gort posted:Well, that sucked. My army got defeated and didn't retreat anywhere, so they immediately got into a second fight and got stackwiped. They weren't cut off or trapped by forts, they were on my territory with lots of space to retreat into. Yeah, sometimes retreat logic glitches out. Stackwipes are my least favourite feature of the game.
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Nov 20, 2015 20:09
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Larry Parrish posted:The 'nation ruining prevention' feature seems like its more of a 'no blitzkrieging weak nations after losing territory' feature. Like if I'm Scotland and own all of Ireland and bit of England, it's not nation-ruining for me to truce-break a released Irish minor or Northumbria or something. It's nation-preserving. This sounds like an incredibly fringe situation that would almost never come up in normal play. Besides, keeping in mind this is a MP only feature, starting up the war you just lost over land that the other player released, only with you at -6 stability, doesn't sound like a very brilliant idea; And even that is assuming a player would actually go out of their way to release minors from you. I can't see our goon MP group ever using it since our players are usually really good about avoiding the whole "nation ruining" behavior. I can see stuff like pubby games using it though since I doubt they're always the pinnacle of maturity.
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Nov 20, 2015 20:18
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I've got over 1000 hours in this game and I never knew about the insane copper mine in Dalaskogen. +5 goods produced for basically one of the most expensive goods in the game? I need to rush MIL 7 to get the bronze cannons event early.
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Nov 20, 2015 20:19
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It is a very strong bonus. I always assumed it was just some way to buff Sweden, but apparantly the Falun Mine in Dalaskogen produced up to 2/3 of Europes copper needs in parts of the milennia. Strongest period being in the 16th century. Sweden was the only major producer of copper in Europe. So it seems to have some historical basis.
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Nov 20, 2015 20:29
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VerdantSquire posted:This sounds like an incredibly fringe situation that would almost never come up in normal play. Besides, keeping in mind this is a MP only feature, starting up the war you just lost over land that the other player released, only with you at -6 stability, doesn't sound like a very brilliant idea; And even that is assuming a player would actually go out of their way to release minors from you. In the last game alone like 4 people did exactly that, to varying degrees of success. It worked really well for Another Person until everyone decided to shrug and let Obliterati roll over everyone like a steamroller. I've noticed that a lot of people are in love with releasing wrong culture territory they don't want themselves, because the victim has to core it again.
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Nov 20, 2015 20:33
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Larry Parrish posted:In the last game alone like 4 people did exactly that, to varying degrees of success. It worked really well for Another Person until everyone decided to shrug and let Obliterati roll over everyone like a steamroller. I've noticed that a lot of people are in love with releasing wrong culture territory they don't want themselves, because the victim has to core it again. On the other hand Larry, you're really not good at this game.
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Nov 20, 2015 20:42
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Baudin posted:On the other hand Larry, you're really not good at this game. I should have the freedom to fail 
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Nov 20, 2015 20:43
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Hryme posted:It is a very strong bonus. I always assumed it was just some way to buff Sweden, but apparantly the Falun Mine in Dalaskogen produced up to 2/3 of Europes copper needs in parts of the milennia. Strongest period being in the 16th century. Sweden was the only major producer of copper in Europe. So it seems to have some historical basis. There are all sorts of places elsewhere in the world that should get similar bonuses though. Right now I think it's just that copper mine in Sweden, and the gold in Tirol and the Andes? I dunno if it lags the game a ton or something to have asstons of unique province modifiers, but in my opinion they're one of the most interesting things you can do to the map. That stupid silver mine in Austria is the flashpoint for so many conflicts in multiplayer, I really wish there were things like that more regularly around the world.
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Nov 20, 2015 20:51
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Larry Parrish posted:In the last game alone like 4 people did exactly that, to varying degrees of success. It worked really well for Another Person until everyone decided to shrug and let Obliterati roll over everyone like a steamroller. I've noticed that a lot of people are in love with releasing wrong culture territory they don't want themselves, because the victim has to core it again. trucebreak reconquest is the only kind of conquest I lost half of my basetax in one day, got it back in one year (except the bit oblit decided to guarantee once he spotted my scheming). I managed to go from the brink of death to back basically in square one, just without allies because nobody wanted to touch that monster to my east (or the monster in my capital because I was playing like revolver ocelot). I was quickly back at 0 stab because I had planned the war with that possibility being needed. The only reason I managed to do what I did was because I kept culture converting my land to retain my cores. If it had more than 10 dev I turned it to my culture. It was a lesson I learned after my "all of the AI hates you" coalition wars. e; I really do like the idea of nation ruining blocking attempts. But I also think it should definitely be an a la carte menu where the host can turn elements of it on an off. e2; nation ruining elements also seem like they kinda get in the way of the new revaunchism feature. like a player in a corner with a huge war loss truce might not even get a chance to use the revaunchism before it times out. Another Person fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 20:55
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Koramei posted:There are all sorts of places elsewhere in the world that should get similar bonuses though. Right now I think it's just that copper mine in Sweden, and the gold in Tirol and the Andes? I think Saxony gets one for porcelain production in the late 17th C, but its not nearly as big a deal.
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Nov 20, 2015 21:03
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Don't forget the spice islands modifiers!
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Nov 20, 2015 21:12
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It's like having five manufactories in one province. Or 25 base production for free. I'm gonna try stacking +goods produced modifiers and see how far I can take it.
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Nov 20, 2015 22:15
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Larry Parrish posted:In the last game alone like 4 people did exactly that, to varying degrees of success. It worked really well for Another Person until everyone decided to shrug and let Obliterati roll over everyone like a steamroller. I've noticed that a lot of people are in love with releasing wrong culture territory they don't want themselves, because the victim has to core it again. Another Person posted:e2; nation ruining elements also seem like they kinda get in the way of the new revaunchism feature. like a player in a corner with a huge war loss truce might not even get a chance to use the revaunchism before it times out.
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Nov 20, 2015 22:23
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It would be cool also if nation ruining was a player-by-player flag set by the host. Put training wheels on the known ragers 
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Nov 20, 2015 22:30
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One other question. As Ottomans, I formed Persia as a vassal with 2 provinces. As Timurids have imploded, Persia is inheriting a ton of land from them, and they now have +195% liberty desire from events/defections. Is this a temporary thing that will go back down over time, or or this thing pretty much poison and I'm going to have to put them down?
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Nov 21, 2015 03:05
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It'll go down over time.
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Nov 21, 2015 03:14
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PittTheElder posted:It'll go down over time. That's good. It seems to have topped off at about +458%, so...I'm sure this won't end in fire.
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Nov 21, 2015 03:26
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Be sure to keep conquering more land, build more troops and keep them capped off at 200 relations. I'm not so sure I agree with Pitt there that they will not just rebel, a full Persia has a lot of basetax and can summon something like 40k men. I think they may be capable of matching you, if they have all of Persia. Gather allies. Do everything in your power to lower that liberty desire. Use the subject interactions. Try and get long truces with whoever might decide to support their independence such as the Mamluks or Qara if they still exist. You miiiight be in a bad spot.
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Nov 21, 2015 03:33
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Just keep Persia's opinion of you at 190+ and they shouldn't revolt against you. If their opinion of you drops low or they start looking for a nation to support their independence you can start a war to get a relations boost (also if they border the person you're at war with they could take losses which significantly lowers their liberty desire)
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Nov 21, 2015 03:35
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Subsidize their manpower, since that gives a nice liberty desire bonus and the Ottomans piss manpower. Do not give them monetary subs though. That will just allow them to field a bigger army and increase liberty desire. Also, be sure to keep your dip tech ahead of theirs. I'm not sure you will be able to integrate them for a loooong time since it will require you getting them below 50 liberty desire (I think?).
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Nov 21, 2015 03:43
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When that happened to me one time, I spent ~100 years clicking "Placate local rulers".
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Nov 21, 2015 03:57
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On the bright side since they probably inherited all that land in the same 20-30 year period, it will start to fall very rapidly once it begins to decay
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Nov 21, 2015 03:58
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I would just incite them to rebel and crush them. That'll probably take decades to get rid of, and having to worry about it that whole time will be more painful than getting it over with.
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Nov 21, 2015 04:58
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Koramei posted:I would just incite them to rebel and crush them. That'll probably take decades to get rid of, and having to worry about it that whole time will be more painful than getting it over with. Even as the Ottomans with quantity ideas you would probably bleed your manpower to death fighting or sieging all of those Persian mountains.
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Nov 21, 2015 06:26
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Another Person posted:Be sure to keep conquering more land, build more troops and keep them capped off at 200 relations. I'm not so sure I agree with Pitt there that they will not just rebel, a full Persia has a lot of basetax and can summon something like 40k men. I think they may be capable of matching you, if they have all of Persia. Well it depends entirely on how strong the player Ottomans are. 100% Liberty Desire will make Persia super disloyal, but if the AI doesn't think they can win the fight against their overlord, they'll sit around and take it all the same. So if Palleon is already rolling around with 100k troops, then it's a non issue. Koramei posted:I would just incite them to rebel and crush them. That'll probably take decades to get rid of, and having to worry about it that whole time will be more painful than getting it over with. This is my instinct as well though. But don't take the border provinces when they do, take all coastal provinces that don't connect to you. Then you can core them for nothing and be well on your way into India.
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Nov 21, 2015 08:00
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I've got about 80k troops right now, allied with Spain and France, and Persia has a 44 cap on their force limits but have taken a number of hits in our wars so I don't think they're up to that point. They've been at 100 liberty desire for 18 years or so at this point and they haven't made a move, I just got pulled into a war between Spain and France and decided to join rather than break the alliances, which might have been a mistake. I assume if they're going to make their move, they'll do it now, and if not, then I figure my constant warring to the East will keep them docile enough until those modifiers wear down. Definately not doing a World Conquest this run, it's already in the mid 1500's and I'm not even part of the HRE yet, I did become Protestant when the first CoR decided to pop in Constantinople. I figured I would wait until Persia is more loyal, then start converting electors to get in, but I don't want an HRE dogpile when Persia could backstab me at any time, and I would really like them to contribute to those wars anyway.
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Nov 21, 2015 14:49
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I wish cossacks was out
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Nov 21, 2015 15:29
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double nine posted:here's a "guide" Why is he constantly recalling and resending his diplomats?
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Nov 21, 2015 17:37
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In older patches you would get a base increase to relations when the diplomat was sent, this has thankfully been removed.
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Nov 21, 2015 17:54
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DDRJake is the sort of player who would play using any sort of exploit possible if it was to his benefit. Dude actively looks for bugs to mess about with in EUIV. So in a lot of his runthroughs you will see him mess with things like that to gain an edge over the game.
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Nov 21, 2015 19:26
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Here is a link to an incredible run as Ryukyu that Jake performed. In this run he demonstrates many exploits that were available at the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhfgexzIO8A I never really considered truce breaking till I saw this video, and he does some insane things, like 5 back to back truce breakings and getting 400% OE. It is pretty crazy.
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Nov 21, 2015 21:05
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So I didn't think this was possible. But I couldn't resist when I saw it was.
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Nov 21, 2015 21:21
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Hobolicious posted:So I didn't think this was possible. But I couldn't resist when I saw it was. Helloooooooo new vassal
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Nov 21, 2015 21:27
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Forming Prussia as an Orthodox state sounds pretty fun, I think I'll try that some time.
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Nov 21, 2015 21:31
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You have to be either Protestant or Reformed to form Prussia. Stupid history references, getting in the way of my sandbox map game. 
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Nov 21, 2015 21:36
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