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silence_kit posted:The point is that I don't see much evidence of the US government/corporate conspiracy against alternative sources of energy, which is often claimed in this thread. So it's your belief that the oil industry did not spend 50+ years lobbying against climate change, so as to continue externalizing most of their costs? Really?
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Jul 6, 2021 16:16
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QuarkJets posted:So it's your belief that the oil industry did not spend 50+ years lobbying against climate change, so as to continue externalizing most of their costs? Really?
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Jul 6, 2021 16:49
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Grouchio posted:His belief is that the lobbying didn't help matters at all re:climate change but that it wasn't the catalyst as much as fossil fuels being the mainstream energy source was making that a possibility in the first place. Call it pedantry if you must. Given that they openly lobbied against things like Nuclear as "Expensive" and "Dangerous" to ensure their dominance on the market, I disagree. Even now, a lot of what they are doing is being used as a cover for continuing to do the same as usual via Greenwashing by claiming they are turning a corner. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jul 6, 2021 |
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Jul 6, 2021 17:02
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CommieGIR posted:Given that they openly lobbied against things like Nuclear as "Expensive" and "Dangerous" to ensure their dominance on the market, I disagree. Even now, a lot of what they are doing is being used as a cover for continuing to do the same as usual via Greenwashing by claiming they are turning a corner.
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Jul 6, 2021 17:29
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Grouchio posted:And you're saying/implying that there has been no progress with corpo emissions from anyone in the past 3 years? Let's put it this way: Germany was on track to miss their emissions goals for 2020. The ONLY thing that stopped that was Covid. That's it   https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/04/20/greenhouse-gas-emissions-are-set-to-rise-fast-in-2021 The problem is, every time we cut CO2, we replace it with methane emissions, which trends with our phasing out of coal with Natural Gas and Agricultural increases. So no. Emissions continue to rise. And we're pretending its okay.
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Jul 6, 2021 17:33
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CommieGIR posted:snip
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Jul 6, 2021 17:40
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Grouchio posted:Isn't the rise in emissions 2018-21 slowing down compared to 2014-18? Because its being replaced by Methane emissions, which still leads to CO2 emissions but at a decreased rate. But again, while methane doesn't hang around in the atmosphere as long, its 4x more potent a GHG as CO2. So no, not good. CO2 isn't climbing as fast, but its STILL climbing, and we're slaughtering Carbon sinks like the Rainforest and old growth forest for fuel, while rapidly expanding Fracking/Drilling to get more Natural Gas.
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Jul 6, 2021 17:41
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CommieGIR posted:Because its being replaced by Methane emissions, which still leads to CO2 emissions but at a decreased rate. But again, while methane doesn't hang around in the atmosphere as long, its 4x more potent a GHG as CO2.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:04
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Grouchio posted:So then - My 3-year long assumption that 'if carbon emissions slowed down over the next few years that would begin to become an improvement over business as usual emissions increases - indicating that the global economy was beginning to adapt to climate change' was a complete lie - is what you're saying? I was wrong to hope that pledges or any action would help? Tell me. Unless we shift off Natural Gas and start curbing our Agricultural emissions, as well as slow down on burning wood pellets (Looking at you, Germany) which encourages increased forest decimation.....its a problem. Anything that accelerates and encourage Fracking/Drilling is bad at this point. Natural Gas' time to shine should've been 30 years ago. Not now. We need Renewables + Nuclear right now, not gas.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:06
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CommieGIR posted:Unless we shift off Natural Gas and start curbing our Agricultural emissions, as well as slow down on burning wood pellets (Looking at you, Germany) which encourages increased forest decimation.....its a problem.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:09
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Grouchio posted:Okay...Okay. It is indeed a problem that can still be solved. But is it worse than the situation we were in before the 2018 report? Yes because we're ramping up post COVID. Also: Here's a good sign of things to come: https://twitter.com/ErrorFourOThree/status/1412181057194102793?s=20
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Jul 6, 2021 18:12
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Why is Europe phasing out nuclear for gas again? General anti-nuclear sentiments combined with gas corp ambitions?
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Jul 6, 2021 18:17
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Grouchio posted:Why is Europe phasing out nuclear for gas again? General anti-nuclear sentiments combined with gas corp ambitions? Collective broken brains from Fukushima. Yes, really.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:18
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Grouchio posted:Why is Europe phasing out nuclear for gas again? General anti-nuclear sentiments combined with gas corp ambitions? Because Germany. Seriously. Most of this is being driven by Germany, who themselves are doubling down on Nordstream 2 Natural Gas. Its probably the stupidest move you could possibly make.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:18
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CommieGIR posted:Because Germany. Seriously. Most of this is being driven by Germany, who themselves are doubling down on Nordstream 2 Natural Gas. Its probably the stupidest move you could possibly make. You know what? Biden should sanction Germany over this.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:22
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Grouchio posted:God gently caress Baerbock for costing her party the elections probably. Why would he, we're doing roughly the exact same thing.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:26
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CommieGIR posted:Yes because we're ramping up post COVID. it rules that this is the flagship policy the greens want to realize this government term. Wibla posted:Collective broken brains from Fukushima. I don't think so. The green parties have been so neutered that nuclear is the only theme they are allowed to have an impact on. And it provides lots of jobs for the oil and gas industries, so by all means shut them down.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:28
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double nine posted:it rules that this is the flagship policy the greens want to realize this government term. Germany put out a demand Friday(?) basically calling on the EU to keep Nuclear out of the green energy definition. They also previously demanded Natural Gas be considered Green Energy. Its the most rear end-backwards move possible in the face of what is happening. double nine posted:I don't think so. The green parties have been so neutered that nuclear is the only theme they are allowed to have an impact on. And it provides lots of jobs for the oil and gas industries, so by all means shut them down. Don't forget Greenpeace literally sells Natural Gas in Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace_Energy Their "Promise" was that it would be green sourced. As of right now it remains 96% fossil.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:31
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CommieGIR posted:Germany put out a demand Friday(?) basically calling on the EU to keep Nuclear out of the green energy definition. I'm convinced that our elites still think it's 1990 and yet they're still fighting the oil crisis. Funnily enough it's the liberals who are starting to push against the nuclear exit. I don't know if this is just kabuki or serious, but any party that seriously decides not to shutter the nuclear power plants gets my blessing. https://www.tijd.be/politiek-economie/belgie/federaal/mr-trekt-kernuitstap-opnieuw-in-twijfel/10316533 (the darkest timeline is going to be that the political elites don't manage to find a solution, and the corp handling the maintenance of the nuclear plants just decides to shut them down unilaterally)
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Jul 6, 2021 18:56
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All that being said, this EU Gas/emission revival poo poo is more a temporary setback than an absolute reversal of climate fortunes, right?
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Jul 7, 2021 02:38
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Grouchio posted:All that being said, this EU Gas/emission revival poo poo is more a temporary setback than an absolute reversal of climate fortunes, right? I mean I don't know what would constitute an absolute reversal, but it's clear that Europeans are battling over which energy sectors are acceptably "green". The Scandinavians and the Germans (and the UK) want to convert their coal plants to wood burning, the eastern bloc wants to import Russian fossil gas, the French want to promote their nuclear energy, the North Sea nations want more investment in offshore wind, and the Mediterranean nations want solar arrays. It's mostly a battle over domestic economies. The last time I did a deep-dive on Germany's energy sector, I basically came away with a recognition that despite their various green investments, they are basically swimming in place. It's good that some coal plants have been shuttered, but the pace is just abysmally slow and those plants have a zombie-like tendency to get restarted. If they were actually closing down coal plants, a lot more could be excused. Germany's insistence on killing off the nuclear energy industry while keeping most of the coal plants operating has effectively ensured that they won't be making any actual progress on emissions targets for many years. They're deathly afraid that the EU might recognize that converting coal plants to wood isn't actually helping the environment very much. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/16/converting-coal-plants-to-biomass-could-fuel-climate-crisis-scientists-warn https://globalforestcoalition.org/plans-for-burning-namibian-wood-in-german-power-plants-denounced/ Kaal fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Jul 7, 2021 |
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Jul 7, 2021 04:12
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And all while doing this, Russia is actually building more nuclear plants, Poland is investigating building US designed ones as well.
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Jul 7, 2021 04:15
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Also not to put too fine a point on it, but the reason that German coal plants are converting to wood burning is precisely because they're getting squeezed by carbon taxes and the current regulations consider wood to be "biomass" akin to switchgrass. The current carbon pricing, as limited as it is, is already causing a huge shift in the energy sector. The solution is very clear - implement more carbon taxes and continue targeting them against the lowest-hanging fruit.
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Jul 7, 2021 04:34
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CommieGIR posted:Germany put out a demand Friday(?) basically calling on the EU to keep Nuclear out of the green energy definition. Got any links to back these up? Quick google search didn't turn up anything.
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Jul 7, 2021 12:46
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Got any links to back these up? Quick google search didn't turn up anything. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germany-four-others-oppose-classing-nuclear-green-eu-2021-07-02/
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Jul 7, 2021 13:08
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Kaal posted:https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germany-four-others-oppose-classing-nuclear-green-eu-2021-07-02/ Worth noting that this has only led to the Commission delaying a decision on nukes rather than excluding them from the taxonomy. The Commission commissioned some expert opinion on the issue last year: https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/banking-and-finance/sustainable-finance/eu-taxonomy-sustainable-activities_en Which basically says, "Nah fam, you good, build the nukes but keep researching tho." However, I expect the Commission to kick the can down the road for a few years, as the alternative is publicly pointing out that a very important Member State is being loving stupid.
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Jul 7, 2021 13:32
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CommieGIR posted:And all while doing this, Russia is actually building more nuclear plants, Poland is investigating building US designed ones as well. not to get tinhat, but i wonder what % of russian troll farms post anti atom stuff.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:09
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PhazonLink posted:not to get tinhat, but i wonder what % of russian troll farms post anti atom stuff. Given that it directly benefits Russia to ensure they are buying Russian gas? Who knows. But given past corruption scandals in Germany with Gazprom, its not unexpected.
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Jul 7, 2021 17:14
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Phanatic posted:Those risks to industry and population centers aren't just from outright dam failure. Was just looking through old posts and this caught my eye. We're staring down the barrel of low levels at Lake Mead again. I don't know how the SW survives climate change long term.
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Jul 13, 2021 00:24
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Pander posted:Was just looking through old posts and this caught my eye. We're staring down the barrel of low levels at Lake Mead again. I don't know how the SW survives climate change long term. Look at it this way the SW is squarely within an economic powerhouse most likely to be able to do such things. This is the perfect testing ground for such techniques that can one day terraform regions and save lives.
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Jul 13, 2021 00:57
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60 minutes did a piece of the Fukushima cleanup. Seems the cost is now estimated at $1/4T. Looked that up: The government says Fukushima's decommissioning cost is estimated at 8 trillion yen ($73 billion), though adding compensation, decontamination of surrounding areas and medium-term storage facilities would bring the total to an estimated 22 trillion yen ($200 billion). https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-tokyo-japan-science-business-d1b8322355f3f31109dd925900dff200
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Jul 13, 2021 01:07
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VideoGameVet posted:60 minutes did a piece of the Fukushima cleanup. Seems the cost is now estimated at $1/4T. The Fukushima cleanup can be as expensive as we want it to be.
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Jul 13, 2021 01:37
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VideoGameVet posted:60 minutes did a piece of the Fukushima cleanup. Seems the cost is now estimated at $1/4T. Not bad. Now turn Fukushima II back on.
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Jul 13, 2021 02:12
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Maybe we want a reactor that doesn’t have an issue with the power being turned off.
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Jul 13, 2021 03:41
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VideoGameVet posted:Maybe we want a reactor that doesn’t have an issue with the power being turned off. Daini did not have those issues. It weathered the same Tsunami just fine. It's about 15 miles up the coast from Fukushima Diachi, it's generators and switchgear were above sea level. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daini_Nuclear_Power_Plant?wprov=sfla1 CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Jul 13, 2021 04:14
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The true cost of improperly sited equipment. A tale as old as time.
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Jul 13, 2021 05:10
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CommieGIR posted:Daini did not have those issues. It weathered the same Tsunami just fine. I'm not sure I'd say that, exactly. The diesels were fine, but the seawater pumps were not. quote:The tsunami caused the plant's seawater pumps, used to cool reactors, to fail. Of the plant's four reactors, three were in danger of meltdown.[19] One external high-voltage power line still functioned, allowing plant staff in the central control room to monitor data on internal reactor temperatures and water levels. 2,000 employees of the plant worked to stabilize the reactors. Some employees connected over 9 kilometers of cabling using 200-meter sections of cable, each weighing more than a ton from their Rad Waste Building to other locations onsite. The operators were on top of their game and averted meltdowns by fixing the poo poo that broke before the emergency cooling apparatus was overwhelmed, but I wouldn't describe this as a reactor that didn't have an issue with the power being turned off.
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Jul 14, 2021 15:48
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Phanatic posted:I'm not sure I'd say that, exactly. The diesels were fine, but the seawater pumps were not. And they didn't melt down. True, I stand corrected, they had issues, but nowhere near the issues Daichi had.
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Jul 14, 2021 15:53
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Grouchio posted:Technological and ecological adaptation with shitloads of funding. Cloud seeding, membrane desalination, underground housing, hydroponics, improved grids come to mind. we're not even capable of avoiding buying new fossil drive Amtrak trains nobody is going to accept terraforming, the rich are going to insist on buying eight ton residential air conditioners powered by high sulfur bunker oil and subsidized by the poor before they accept anything that looks remotely like sensible climate adaptation
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Jul 14, 2021 16:48
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https://twitter.com/gary_hasty/status/1415677400717963264?s=20 The gas consumption spike during the Texas blackouts was big money.
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Jul 15, 2021 15:42
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