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EF-M being kinda dead meant I could pick up a relatively cheap mitakon 35/0.95. Great lens to keep glued on my m5
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Nov 1, 2020 07:15
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Fingers McLongDong posted:My wife went to Goodwill this week and found a working Polaroid SX-70 with the serial number coming back to 1982 for a grand total of $8. The test pics came out a little blurry but some googling says it's because of poor lighting, so she's ordered a lightbar. I don't know squat about non-digital photos but it's a pretty sweet find, if anyone has some resources for doing old school polaroid photography they'd like to share that would be cool! Polaroid had been an abandoned film format for a few years, but it's been resurrected so, as apparently you discovered, you can get film for your camera. If Hollywood has taught me anything, the proper technique for Polaroid photography is
Or, you know, just play with it. It's a fun bit of anachronistic tech with its own rituals and meanings and consequences. Covid means you probably won't be going to a big wedding any time soon, but if you do, you could do like my cousin did and leave the camera on a table with a sign for people to just go hog wild with it, and leave the photos someplace the bride & groom will find them.
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Nov 2, 2020 01:34
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How do current amateur/entry-level DSLR's stack up against prosumer models from 7-8 years ago? I'm a very casual photographer and I have a Canon EOS 500D that I play around with/use as an excuse to take longer walks sometimes. Since the camera body is something like 10 years old though I was thinking that maybe it's time for a new toy and started looking around at classifieds sites and local shops. I have some lenses already - obvious Tamron kit lens replacement, very old Canon 17-35mm F/2.8 L I got used for cheap, nifty fifty, and an old manual telephoto lens I got from my dad, a Soligor 400mm F/6.3, that I use with an adapter to try to take photos of birds and squirrels from my balcony (usually with pretty limited success) - so I think I want to stick with Canon. My budget is about 5-600€. Used 7D's are a dime a dozen, I see ones at like 300€, but while it's a much higher end camera than my 500D it's basically just as old. A new 2000D is more expensive than that. At the top of my budget there's mirrorless things that I don't know anything about and the 800D, if it can still be found in stores. I also see some 70D's floating around 500€. Could maybe, maybe swing a 7D mk2 if I stretch the budget and find a good deal on classifieds. How should I reason here? I mostly shoot nature/environment, and fail to shoot birds/animals. Not a lot of portraits. I like fast autofocus. Good ISO performance would be nice because I need the excuse to take longer walks the most around this time of the year and this is a dark and dreary place. I don't care about video. Some degree of weatherproofing/ruggedness would be nice but then again my 500D is still alive after almost a decade with me so I guess I'm not too harsh on it. e: the autofocus and the ISO performance are probably the things I'm least happy with on the 500D. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 02:19
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TheFluff posted:How do current amateur/entry-level DSLR's stack up against prosumer models from 7-8 years ago? IMO, the 7D autofocus is really good, but its advantages really come into play when you're talking to fast moving action shots like sports and wildlife. Canon has improved the AF on the x0d models quite a bit and I suspect you wouldn't see much difference in practice between a 70D/80D and a 7DII for your style of shooting. Sensor technology has continued to improve, albeit slowly compared to 10 years ago, so you're going to see a noticeable improvement in noise performance. Generally Canon keeps their sensors pretty similar across their entire range of DSLR's, so I wouldn't expect a 7DII to do much better than 750D, for instance, but there are tools to compare with your own eyes. I recently replaced my 50d, which looks like it has the same sensor as your 500D, with two modern Canon bodies (a 90D and an M50). The difference in sensor noise was very significant. I used to consider ISO 1600 my ceiling, but I am comfortable pushing that to ISO 6400. That's the DSLR situation, mirrorless is the other part of the equation. Canon's mirrorless game is at a weird stage right now because it's split between two largely incompatible lines. Both use dual pixel auto-focus (DPAF) which is fundamentally different than the phase detect auto focus that DSLR's use when you're looking through the optical viewfinder (newer Canon DSLRs also use DPAF when you switch to using the rear LCD instead of the optical viewfinder). Since it actually uses pixels on the image sensor to focus it can do things that DSLR cannot do like face detect. A lot of this is more important when shooting video, but some still prefer it for stills photography. There are some other advantages to mirrorless such as that if you have a viewfinder you get a lot more information and an actual representation of what exposure should look like. The M line has been around for quite a few years and is the consumer focused, APS-C sensor line. It's focus is compact size and weight and it has an assortment of first party M-mount lenses and a decent chunk of third party M-mount lenses, although some of those are manual focus only. You can mount your current EF/EF-S lenses to it with a relatively cheap third party adapter. M cameras can also be really reasonable in price so if it interests you look at used prices for the M5 or M50. The big issue for the M line is that its future is unclear. Most people expect Canon to replace it with consumer oriented R cameras, but currently most of the R lenses are aimed at high end photographers and it will take a lot of work to get anywhere near on par with the M or APS-C DSLR lines as far as lens assortment goes. The R line is the newest Canon mirrorless line. It's replacing the full-frame DSLRs. The lowest priced camera in the this line is the ~$1000 Canon RP and the lenses are mostly high end. It can mount EF/EF-S lenses with a $100 adapter, but cannot mount M lenses. All that to say you have quite a few options. If you want to stick with DSLR a 70D or 80D would be a great choice and a very significant step up. I would also consider the M line. Bodies are typically substantially cheaper used than prosumer DSLRs and the compact size with some of the small lenses like the 22mm F/2 and 15-45mm kit lens make it a game changer as far as carrying around on a daily basis go. Yes, we may not see many more new bodies, but if you're the type of person who keeps their body for 10 years it may not matter that much to you. If mirrorless is interesting to you there's also other makers out there doing great things (Specifically Fuji). Your current lenses wouldn't work with them without some more expensive adapters, but you're not super invested in glass. Edit: Also probably worth mentioning that we've very likely seen Canon release their last DSLR. Maybe we'll see another low-end body like a T8, but I'd be shocked if we see a T9i or something to follow up the 7DII or 90D. BeastOfExmoor fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Nov 4, 2020 |
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Nov 4, 2020 04:59
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Thanks a lot for the detailed reply! Will need some time to digest this. I need to look into mirrorless some more - my gut reaction was that I want to stay with DSLR, but it's not for any particularly good reasons. I just like the feeling of looking through viewfinder and the mechanical noises of the mirror. ISO6400 being usable on newer sensors sounds great - I've been the same as you and used 1600 as my limit.
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Nov 4, 2020 11:55
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TheFluff posted:I need to look into mirrorless some more - my gut reaction was that I want to stay with DSLR, but it's not for any particularly good reasons. I just like the feeling of looking through viewfinder and the mechanical noises of the mirror. Might want to take a look at some of the mirrorless models that have not an optical viewfinder, but a second LCD in the body as a viewfinder. The nice part? “What you see is what you get” vision of the image before you take it. If your settings are too bright or dark, the viewfinder reflects that. It’s really nice.
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Nov 4, 2020 13:14
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Definitely take a look at some modern MILC before you write them off for viewfinders, but also make sure that before you write off a MILC viewfinder you adjust it. I was really unimpressed with my A7iii's EVF until I changed a few settings and got it to look much less contrasty. I'm pretty sure I'm EVF for life now.
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Nov 4, 2020 13:24
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I have the R6 and there's a lot that speaks for mirrorless (at least as far as Canon goes) Others have already mentioned WYSIWYG, but that's really good. You can also mirror the menus into the viewfinder so you don't have to take your eye off it. In-body image stabilisation, especially in conjunction with lens IS, is incredible. You can hand-shoot about a second at night at low ISO and have it be razor sharp. Higher shutter speed. There is really nice focus helper when shooting MF:  RF can transmit more information than EF so e.g. a macro lens will show the current enlargement factor as well as the usual data. The R6's photos are still good for viewing, if not printing, at ISO 25600. Here's one I hand-shot from a moving boat at night (ƒ/2.8, 1/50s, Sigma 14-24 @24mm):  I will say that using the viewfinder at night with stabilisation on is weird and swimmy at first, and some light sources will have that weird rolling effect (not on the final photo) but during the day it's barely noticeable.
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Nov 4, 2020 14:08
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The only annoyance I had with EVF was an in-studio sshoot on Manual — totally forgot that WYSIWYG is a two edged sword if you’re calculating exposure based on external flash instead of always-on illumination. There are ways around that and I figured it out but I haven’t done any studio shooting in months so I’ll be danged if I remember what it was I did and whether I’ll have to re-learn it next time I step behind some speedlights.
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Nov 4, 2020 14:32
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Martytoof posted:The only annoyance I had with EVF was an in-studio sshoot on Manual — totally forgot that WYSIWYG is a two edged sword if you’re calculating exposure based on external flash instead of always-on illumination. The other day I had a little studio setup with strobes in my garage and the neighbor kids asked if I'd take some pictures of them jumping in a leaf pile. I left my shutter at 1/250s, opened up the aperture, and turned up the ISO. After a few minutes of shooting I decided to take a peek at the images and they were all a couple of stops underexposed because I had forgotten to switch the "preview exposure in manual mode" back on.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:12
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gschmidl posted:There is really nice focus helper when shooting MF:
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Nov 4, 2020 15:28
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ugh whatever jeez posted:This is only when using native electronic lenses, right? I just tried with the Sigma via the EF-RF adapter, and it works there too.
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Nov 4, 2020 15:31
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Sorry, I was a bit unclear. I mean, this doesn't work with fully manual lens, you need AF lens?
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Nov 4, 2020 15:33
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ugh whatever jeez posted:Sorry, I was a bit unclear. I mean, this doesn't work with fully manual lens, you need AF lens? If there's no electronics in the lens at all I don't think it works, yeah (the camera thinks you don't even have one on there and you have to turn on "allow shooting without lens").
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Nov 4, 2020 15:57
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Not being able to turn off exposure preview when using a flash is incredibly annoying. I haven't found a way to address the issue on the gr iii. Wasn't as big of a problem on the gr ii because at a certain point it would just stop accurately reflecting exposure, so it was too dark, but not way too dark. I have to constantly refocus as it brightens the screen to get initial focus just to compose shots, but goes back to exposure preview after a second, even with continuous af. TheFluff posted:How do current amateur/entry-level DSLR's stack up against prosumer models from 7-8 years ago? Try and find some more modern articles or videos on shooting with older cameras, information published when the cameras where new isn't the best source and retrospectives are pretty popular. A big advantage of buying older used equipment is you can always sell it on again without a big loss if you decide it wasn't right for you.
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Nov 4, 2020 16:38
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Fools Infinite posted:Try and find some more modern articles or videos on shooting with older cameras, information published when the cameras where new isn't the best source and retrospectives are pretty popular. dpreview's test scene collection might be the easiest way to compare an old camera against a new one: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison It's not perfect, or super scientific, but it's an easy way to get a feel for the differences of a sensor in something one has and something one is thinking of getting.
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Nov 4, 2020 16:57
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TheFluff posted:How do current amateur/entry-level DSLR's stack up against prosumer models from 7-8 years ago? On a purely numbers level , they are going to stack up very well. As others have said, there's been steady improvement in sensors, autofocus, and image processors (mostly driven by the insane progress in phone photography) so if you compare resolutions, burst rates, usable ISO ranges etc, you're going to see that current scrub-tier options are strong contenders vs OG 7Ds or D7100s. Where you might see actual benefits from those older bodies is the ergonomics and the way that the cameras handle. Current entry level cameras still have the limited controllability compared to prosumer bodies that they always have had. You're getting one control wheel and you're going to need to hit up menus to adjust aperture or ISO. You are getting more AF points but you still only have two or three AF modes. There are still going to be a very limited set of I/O ports so you might not have anywhere to plug in a mic or an intervalometer. Bigger files aren't suppported by equivalently fast write buses so burst rates might be slower. Stuff like that.
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Nov 4, 2020 18:09
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Thanks all of you for the helpful advice! I've done some more research and currently I'm leaning towards a used 70D or 80D - I think I can get one for less than a used 7D, even, and that leaves a lot of space open in the budget towards a used telezoom lens like a 50-150 or a 70-200. I did look into MILC's some more but if I'm understanding things correctly the big selling point for me would be image stabilization, but that only works for still photos if you have an image stabilization lens, which I don't have. There's also not much of a used market for MILC's here (yet) so I'm not seeing a straightforward way of getting a decent MILC and a decent image stabilized lens for it and still stay within budget. I think I'll look for an opportunity to actually test shoot a MILC first before I decide, though.
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Nov 5, 2020 08:52
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TheFluff posted:Thanks all of you for the helpful advice! In-body image stabilization (IBIS) works with all lenses whether they have IS or not. That said, the only Canon bodies with IBIS currently cost several times your budget and I'm not sure and other company's IBIS bodies are in your budget either. IBIS is definitely a bit different so I think your instincts to actually use one before purchase are pretty good, as is putting money into additional glass.
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Nov 5, 2020 09:07
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You mentioned autofocus being a strong plus, and being the owner of an 80D I gotta say.. its autofocus is not super great. It's definitely better than its predecessors (it totally destroys my previous camera, a 500D), and for the price point I suppose it's very good, but my hit rate with anything moving was abysmal. Even on a tripod taking still scenes I felt like I had to zoom in with live view and manually focus to get a sharp image. I still have a good number of shots I really like that were taken using autofocus, but if one were to look at my film strip there are many blurred frames leading up to it. It's also possible I just outgrew it and am turning in to a gear snob.
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Nov 5, 2020 17:46
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If you want a deal on mirrorless gear used you'll have to look at the systems that have been on the market longer. There is micro four thirds (panasonic/olympus), fuji, and sony. Micro four thirds has two manufacturers making first party lenses and bodies, so there are a lot of options. The sony apsc options typically have very good autofocus, e.g. the newest entry level model, the a6100. A used x-t3 might also be in your budget. This is the best direct comparison I could find on google, but I would look at more videos/articles about people's experience using the camera for shooting birds specifically, more than comparisons. Another plus of buying used is you don't need to buy into a system, just get the gear you need now and if you need to swap it won't be nearly as painful.
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Nov 5, 2020 18:12
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xzzy posted:You mentioned autofocus being a strong plus, and being the owner of an 80D I gotta say.. its autofocus is not super great. Since my current camera is also a 500D I think I'd be pretty happy with an 80D then  Still, good to know. Almost anything is going to be a huge upgrade over what I have, but if I get something that actually does work on moving subjects then maybe I will actually start trying to shoot those more. My main reason for leaning towards a 70D/80D rather than something higher end right now though is that it's a relatively cheap option, giving me an opportunity to buy more glass as well. Fools Infinite posted:If you want a deal on mirrorless gear used you'll have to look at the systems that have been on the market longer. There is micro four thirds (panasonic/olympus), fuji, and sony. Micro four thirds has two manufacturers making first party lenses and bodies, so there are a lot of options. The sony apsc options typically have very good autofocus, e.g. the newest entry level model, the a6100. A used x-t3 might also be in your budget. A6100 is outside of my budget by a pretty big margin (it's 850€ new). Used X-T3's are rare here from what I can tell but the few I can find are around that price point as well. I'm not against switching systems in general though, and I will look into some more mirrorless options from other manufacturers. Not sure what to do about lenses though.
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Nov 5, 2020 21:41
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The 80D is no 7Dmk2 or R6/5 But you can use it for moving subjects.  On the wing by Aves Lux, on Flickr Canada Goose Takeoff by Aves Lux, on Flickr
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Nov 5, 2020 21:51
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TheFluff posted:A6100 is outside of my budget by a pretty big margin (it's 850€ new). Used X-T3's are rare here from what I can tell but the few I can find are around that price point as well. I can't tell you what the prices are locally but looking at ebay it is about $100 difference used, and amazon's price history has the a6100 body as low as $550 new, about the same as ebay prices here for the 80d. Older models in the same range might also work well, I chose that example because it had a lot of the latest sony af tech for being an entry level model. I'm not sure how well the af adapters for canon glass work on sony, probably not as well as you'd like, but they exist. But I don't think an 80d is a bad choice, there are a lot more factors than just the AF hit rate, ergonomics can really matter when it comes to what works best for you. I just wanted to suggest looking into the longer established mirrorless systems.
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Nov 5, 2020 23:27
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Fools Infinite posted:I can't tell you what the prices are locally but looking at ebay it is about $100 difference used, and amazon's price history has the a6100 body as low as $550 new, about the same as ebay prices here for the 80d. Older models in the same range might also work well, I chose that example because it had a lot of the latest sony af tech for being an entry level model. I'm not sure how well the af adapters for canon glass work on sony, probably not as well as you'd like, but they exist. Any input and advice is appreciated! Electronics are generally more expensive in the EU but the A6100 is actually way more expensive than usual compared to the US. I don't know why that camera in particular is so expensive here, looking at other EU markets it's 150€ cheaper in Germany but even there it's more expensive now than it's ever been in the last 6 months. The used market for Canon stuff is huge here for some reason, and used Canon gear is generally less expensive here than on ebay in the UK or Germany. No idea why.
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Nov 6, 2020 00:11
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I ended up getting an m5 a while back because it's supposed to have similar AF performance to an 80D, and I was able to snag it for fairly cheap on keh ($330). However, I sort of regret it, because the ergonomics kinda suck. The grip is too small with heavier lenses and I always hit the menu button by accident. Also the evf is small and hard to use with glasses.
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Nov 6, 2020 00:23
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Given ample light my old 7D rocked. Excellent build, great ergonomics, good performance.
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Nov 6, 2020 00:53
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I had the 80D before switching to the R6 and I have no complaints other than the wi-fi mode being a horrendous battery leech if you choose to use it.
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Nov 6, 2020 07:28
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Can you guys explain to me what to do with about £200, can I get something like a camera, couple lenses and tripod with that? looking at DSLRs on ebay and I quickly realised I know nothing about cameras lenses etc so I don't know if anything's good/bad/some kinda scam. Sometimes I see dumb animals and birds out in the garden or when I'm out walking, and I want to take photos of them so my online friends can vicariously enjoy seeing the same animals as me. I'd also like to take photos of the landscape too, and eventually i'd like to do a thing with using a telescope to take pics of the moon or planets or something. At this point my knowledge of what to expect runs out, like how would you split that money up into different parts and what should I aim to be getting or whether there's like a sweet spot of price to performance on used stuff? Please guide me.
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Nov 6, 2020 16:12
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Think you're asking a lot of a small budget to be honest. If you want to get something of the quality where it'll last you a decent amount of time and you actually enjoy using, then for that you can get a body and a maybe a kit lens and then a prime lens a little later perhaps, and put off things like tripods (that are generally a waste of time under a certain budget) until you know you want one. Kit lenses are generally pretty decent these days and offer a decent enough focal range so you can work out where you like shooting at, then you can spend the money getting a better version in that area based on that. https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/used-equipment/used-photo-and-video/used-digital-slr-cameras/ MPB were always pretty good when I lived in the UK, but it's been a while since I used them. Going second hand will save you a decent amount of money, but don't get anything ridiculously old. EL BROMANCE fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Nov 6, 2020 |
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Nov 6, 2020 17:02
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If want to get something on a really small budget, try keeping an eye on local ads. Maybe even post a wanted ad yourself. If your patient you might be able to a good deal. Older gear is often overpriced if you just care about performance as a camera, so watch out for that. New d3500 kits have gone for £300 new in the past, don't pay more for something worse. Another "trick" people to get really good deals is to buy gear being sold as a lot, then piece out the parts you don't need and earn most of the money back. A higher value lens and body will often sell for a lot less together than separately. I qualify this as a "trick" because buying and selling for a profit is just work you are doing to earn money, you may have easier ways to make extra for your budget.
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Nov 6, 2020 18:08
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You guys are terrible and ruin all my carefully laid plans  I had pretty much settled on a plan of finding a 70D or a real cheap 80D and a well used 70-200 F/4L, maybe even with image stabilization if I got lucky with good deals, but two days of research later I'm sitting here mournfully staring at things way outside of the budget I decided on, like the X-T3. Even if I step down to a cheaper alternative like an X-T2 or X-T20 I don't see a way of getting both a body and some decent glass without breaking the bank. My collection of old lovely stuff just doesn't have much value on the used market 
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Nov 7, 2020 04:41
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Switching systems is always extremely expensive. Canon makes perfectly good gear, unless you really hate the brand just stick with what you got. Use the 80D for a while, it's gonna take a long time for the current R5/R6 darlings of the Canon lineup to hit budget prices but if you keep the 80D as long as you did the 500D that shouldn't be much of a problem. But if you really want to go modern.. yeah, say goodbye to your budget.
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Nov 7, 2020 05:14
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Don't break the bank, if you picked a budget stick to it, or shoot with what you have until you can save more or find a great deal. Every day brings down prices on cameras that will work just as well when you can comfortably afford them.
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Nov 7, 2020 05:41
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Fools Infinite posted:Don't break the bank, if you picked a budget stick to it, or shoot with what you have until you can save more or find a great deal. Every day brings down prices on cameras that will work just as well when you can comfortably afford them. Yeah, I'm gonna stick to my budget, I'm just griping about there being cool nerd toys I can't justify buying Haven't decided what to do yet but I'm leaning towards either sticking with my original plan or just waiting for a bit and see how prices develop as new models come out. The used market for Fuji stuff is pretty small here so it's harder for me to tell what the normal valuations are.
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Nov 7, 2020 05:55
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TheFluff posted:Yeah, I'm gonna stick to my budget, I'm just griping about there being cool nerd toys I can't justify buying Check the Fred Miranda buy sell forum to get a sense of used prices.
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Nov 7, 2020 14:04
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xzzy posted:
With how loving amazing the R6 is there will be little to no used market presence for it any time soon
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Nov 7, 2020 19:05
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An APS-C style R camera is coming next year, that'll be the budget one.
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Nov 7, 2020 19:10
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Ineptitude posted:With how loving amazing the R6 is there will be little to no used market presence for it any time soon At least it's in stock, unlike the R5 which apparently does not exist in this timeline.
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Nov 7, 2020 20:05
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gschmidl posted:An APS-C style R camera is coming next year, that'll be the budget one. Rip ef-m mount if true
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Nov 8, 2020 03:14
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