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Communist Thoughts
Jan 7, 2008

Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!


Dandywalken posted:

Im glad Age of Sigmar is getting fleshed out and is apparently pretty good now.

its not, it has points now but the big issues are everything coming down to mortal wounds (instant, unsavable damage) and to-hit rolls being a kinda unnecessary step now that its a flat chance regardless of what you're attacking and as always in warhammer team/unit balance doesn't exist

to be fair though the last time I played actual warhammer fantasy before they blew it up it was really, really bad. the high elf-skaven box set had the high elves having something like a 600 point advantage and most skaven units wouldn't even defend themselves against the points-illegal griffin lord before dying.

e: on topic for WH2, I'm looking forward to Tomb Kings but the insane length of turns in ME has basically totally stopped me playing this game to the extent I'm reinstalling WH1 for my TW:Ham fix. I assume TK will come to the Vortex Campaign? Its a bit of a boring campaign but has generally acceptable turn times rather than ME's worst turn times in the series, SSD and all.

Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Dec 30, 2017

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Ammanas
Jul 17, 2005

Voltes V: "Laser swooooooooord!"
Turn times are CPU dependent, transition loads in and out of battle map benefit from SSDs.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011

turn off the TV posted:

That's kind of an all or nothing approach, though. In ~the lore~ Nagarythe really is supposed to be a hosed up barely inhabitable shithole because it's one of Warhammer's many magic Chernobyl Exclusion Zones. It still makes sense that Malekith would want to conquer it, though, because it's his kingdom.

I'd much rather see a system where AI priorities are distributed on a per faction basis, so Malekith's AI would have like a "reclaim kingdom" trait where he has crazy diplomatic penalties with factions that control territory in Ulthuan and his AI would be weighted to target it. I know that that was possible to do something along those lines in Warhammer 1, because either the vanilla game or the mods I was using gave Skarsnik and Belegar the trait "Wants Karak Eight Peaks," which made them prioritize that region and get pissy with whoever owned it.

Yeah, I'd like to see that too but we both know that's some major AI redesign that might need even hardlocked stuff deep within the game logic to completely work the way we want it to. Considering that AI is Total War's biggest weakness, I can settle for all or nothing approaches until CA is finally willing and able to fix stuff up.

turn off the TV posted:

After a couple of minutes of searching I think I found out how to stop or severely discourage the AI from settling regions with unsuitable climates. cai_task_management_system_task_generators.xml assigns and weighs AI tasks based on personality type. Two of these tasks are CAI_TMS_TASK_GENERATOR_ATTACK_UNSUITABLE_CLIMATE_REGIONS, another is CAI_TMS_TASK_GENERATOR_ATTACK_ABANDONED_UNSUITABLE_CLIMATE_REGIONS. On an XML file with 704 entries, probably 50% of them fall between a weight of 1 and -1, with the low being -20 (for the AI doing things that would super piss the player off, but probably has to do to itself), and the high being 100 (for tasks related to using Skaven rite abilities). Almost everything is between 15 and -5, though. Those two tasks for attacking settlements in unsuitable climates are weighed between 1 and -0.5.

In other words, if I'm reading this file right the AI's task manager doesn't see attacking cities in unsuitable climates as that bad of a thing, which makes sense, but it also doesn't see attacking ruins in unsuitable climates as a bad thing(slightly better, actually), which is what's probably leading to problems, because attacking ruins is what makes them decide whether or not to colonize a city, and as far as I can tell there's no way to tell the AI not to colonize ruins in specific climates.

Considering I was wrong on my previous guess that there isn't a way to prevent factions from straight-up colonizing/conquering uninhabitable climate regions, I hope any tests you decide to run work out. I'd just like to not see AI Dwarfs conquering into the Empire or even the Southern Realms, while a player Empire or Bretonnia has enough flexibility to take Grey Mountain provinces if the Dwarfs there get wrecked or straight up refuse to retake perfectly safe ruins.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

Oh, it looks like you can tell the AI not to colonize ruins in specific provinces by assigning them archetypes, which gave different weights for their decisions when attacking any kind of settlement based on tiers of habitability, but it looks like for some reason all but one of them are weighted to occupy settlements that they wouldn't or straight up couldn't colonize. :shrug:

I think that it might be possible to change the colonization and conquest priorities for every faction type by expanding the components, policies and priorities of these factions. It also seems that the AI can be told to prioritize specific kinds of resources, which is probably used for vortex ritual tokens, which makes me wonder if you could make dummy resources representing intent or desire and have the AI prioritize them. Like, Karak Eight Peaks could have the invisible Eight Peaks resource, which Squeek, Skarsnik and Belegar loving love but the rest of the AI factions don't care about at all, while other Dwarf Holds would have their own resources that Belegar would like, but not nearly as much as Eight Peaks. If you expanded on that system a lot and combine it with expanded climate based occupation decisions you might be able to get the various AIs to follow whatever priorities for conquest and warfare they held in the lore. Like, the Bretonnians could have a really heavy weighting for dummy Norsca resources, but since they couldn't or wouldn't want to occupy their settlements they'd just raze them and continue their errantry wars or whatever.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Are there any mods that will let you have multiple colors of imperial troops in one army? Like if I have Wissenland gun guys but Reikland halberdiers, they'd show up in their correct colors?

feller
Jul 5, 2006


There's an army sieging my settlement that has a lord garrisoned inside. I attack the army with the lord. The settlement garrison reinforces on the other side of the map. :psyduck:

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥

Flakey posted:

I had the same thing in my last Kroq game. Break all your treaties with them at the same time, they might just declare on you. If not, war them 10 turns later.

Having given up on my Kroq game and tried Maz instead, Maz is way better and was clearly meant to be the defining Lizardman experience. The game thinks Kroq's campaign is hard, but it's really just tedious - you face one enemy at a time from one direction and none of the enemies you fight early on are going to have any way of dealing with his big ball of discount Saurus, so you're never in any danger of losing unless you try to betray your neighbors while also invading the Silver Host or something, but the progression is a miserable slog through corruption, lovely terrain, and more goddamn corruption. It's like everyone threw a party in the Old World, and you weren't invited.

Maz has a much more interesting start in that there are threats in multiple directions that can unfold in different ways, and he makes up for Kroq's cheap saurus by just having better provinces and lots of fuckin' money to buy whatever he wants.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Can Mannfred not be wounded? It's weird, every time I completely destroy his army he shows up on the campaign map and runs away.

feller
Jul 5, 2006


Voyager I posted:

Having given up on my Kroq game and tried Maz instead, Maz is way better and was clearly meant to be the defining Lizardman experience. The game thinks Kroq's campaign is hard, but it's really just tedious - you face one enemy at a time from one direction and none of the enemies you fight early on are going to have any way of dealing with his big ball of discount Saurus, so you're never in any danger of losing unless you try to betray your neighbors while also invading the Silver Host or something, but the progression is a miserable slog through corruption, lovely terrain, and more goddamn corruption. It's like everyone threw a party in the Old World, and you weren't invited.

Maz has a much more interesting start in that there are threats in multiple directions that can unfold in different ways, and he makes up for Kroq's cheap saurus by just having better provinces and lots of fuckin' money to buy whatever he wants.

Yeah, I tried Kroq once, realized there was nothing queek or anyone else could do against me, saw the endless wastes of vampiric corruption, and quit. I'll definitely try again once Tomb Kings are added though. Kroq rules

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011

Arglebargle III posted:

Are there any mods that will let you have multiple colors of imperial troops in one army? Like if I have Wissenland gun guys but Reikland halberdiers, they'd show up in their correct colors?

There's a bunch of mods out there that make it so you can do regional recruitment with Imperial provinces by creating entirely separate units that can only be recruited from the appropriate regions with a barracks, I assume.

Deltasquid
Apr 10, 2013

awww...
you guys made me ink!


THUNDERDOME

Senor Dog posted:

There's an army sieging my settlement that has a lord garrisoned inside. I attack the army with the lord. The settlement garrison reinforces on the other side of the map. :psyduck:

There seems to be a bug in general that reinforcements spawn 180 degrees away from where they should, relatively from the campaign map. Putting your reinforcing army behind the enemy and attacking means the reinforcements will spawn next to you in the battle. Either reinforcements are being wrongfully placed, or the attacking army is swapping places somehow during the loading. It messed me up as well.

Ammanas
Jul 17, 2005

Voltes V: "Laser swooooooooord!"

Senor Dog posted:

There's an army sieging my settlement that has a lord garrisoned inside. I attack the army with the lord. The settlement garrison reinforces on the other side of the map. :psyduck:

This is a bug they actually re-introduced with WH2. it was fixed in the middle of WH1s life, like the mortis engine noises, but that updated code wasn't included in WH2. I really don't know why CA hasn't fixed it...

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Oh man, I forgot confederation kills every garrison in the land. Makes perfect sense.

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

Arglebargle III posted:

Can Mannfred not be wounded? It's weird, every time I completely destroy his army he shows up on the campaign map and runs away.

When you kill an undead unit (including lords and heroes) there's a chance that they'll ressurrect at low health after the battle. This is probably what's happening.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

As Dwarves, when do I want Thunderers instead of Quarrelers? Quarrelers have better range, fire more frequently and do 18 normal/4AP damage. Thunderers do 5 normal/17 AP damage.

I assume I want to replace some portion of my Quarrelers with Irondrake flamethrowers too. Looking forward to testing a pair of them out soon.

Gonkish
May 19, 2004

Gejnor posted:

Hello friends, a few days ago i got hit by the modding fever again and have made a Dark Elf overhaul mod: Sa'an'ishar.

This mod, which is partly based on "Improved Black Arks", will give you Improved Black Ark mechanics, better Names of Power, better walls for Naggarond, better Dark Elf rites, faster techs, one new tech (want friendly norscans? Pay the man!), and some minor touch-ups like a buff to unmounted Death Hags.

Basically it does a ton of stuff for the Dark Elves, but perhaps the biggest features are that Black Arks will be easier to get (only 100 slaves and 1k gold cost to summon), easier to maintain (basic units inside the ark are very cheap upkeepwise), faster recruitments (from 1 to 3 recruitment slots) and a new unique feature that makes them feel much more epic with an immunity to anything sea related within its sphere of influence!

I think I love you.

new phone who dis
May 24, 2007

by VideoGames
Morbid Hound

Gonkish posted:

I think I love you.

Welp, I know what I'm doing today.

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

You've got to know, to understand,
Baby, take me by my hand,
I'll lead you to the promised land.

LLSix posted:

As Dwarves, when do I want Thunderers instead of Quarrelers? Quarrelers have better range, fire more frequently and do 18 normal/4AP damage. Thunderers do 5 normal/17 AP damage.

I assume I want to replace some portion of my Quarrelers with Irondrake flamethrowers too. Looking forward to testing a pair of them out soon.

Depends what you're fighting. As soon as I can get thunderers I take a couple of units but still use quarrellers for firing over the line at enemy ranged units. Irondrakes are cool but require a bit of management to get the most out of. I only take one unit and its mainly for fun because I like them.

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011

LLSix posted:

As Dwarves, when do I want Thunderers instead of Quarrelers? Quarrelers have better range, fire more frequently and do 18 normal/4AP damage. Thunderers do 5 normal/17 AP damage.

I assume I want to replace some portion of my Quarrelers with Irondrake flamethrowers too. Looking forward to testing a pair of them out soon.

AP damage always does what it says it will do, if you have a quarreler and thunderer shoot at a chaos warrior or similar heavily armored trooper you'll have that damage be closer to 1-2 normal/4 AP and 1 normal/17 AP

new phone who dis
May 24, 2007

by VideoGames
Morbid Hound
Hey Gejnor, I know it's only a little thing, but your attention to the lore on your mod blurbs is cool and really adds flavor to them.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

Hey does anyone really know why the Norse factions always end up being strength rank 1? I mean with Dwarfs it's understandable in TW but in TW and TW2 if it's not dwarfs it's a norse faction.

feller
Jul 5, 2006


LLSix posted:

As Dwarves, when do I want Thunderers instead of Quarrelers? Quarrelers have better range, fire more frequently and do 18 normal/4AP damage. Thunderers do 5 normal/17 AP damage.

I assume I want to replace some portion of my Quarrelers with Irondrake flamethrowers too. Looking forward to testing a pair of them out soon.

Once you're fighting things with armor, you want armor piercing. It's basically as simple as that.

Dartonus
Apr 1, 2011

It only gets worse from here on in...

Arglebargle III posted:

Hey does anyone really know why the Norse factions always end up being strength rank 1? I mean with Dwarfs it's understandable in TW but in TW and TW2 if it's not dwarfs it's a norse faction.

In TW2 Norsca’s currently using the old buildings and units it had before its Faction DLC, so they have a ton of free income from settlements (600 for a rank 3 settlement iirc) and have only 2 real factions active in the Norsca area in Mortal Empires (Skaeling and Varg), so they quickly build money and momentum.

For TW1 I suspect it’s due to Norsca’s Special confederation rules (if they beat another Norscan faction’s leader in battle they can force a confederate) letting them snowball off of their early infighting.

Gejnor
Mar 14, 2005

Fun Shoe

Gonkish posted:

I think I love you.

new phone who dis posted:

Hey Gejnor, I know it's only a little thing, but your attention to the lore on your mod blurbs is cool and really adds flavor to them.

Thank you!

Naming my mods are usually the hardest part of the process believe it or not, right after finding the appropriate image and font. This time however all three were super easy since the dark elf logo thing is perfect, the font i found by googling spiky font within 5 mins of search and really looks somewhat like the curved swords that the dark elves use.

The name came to me after something like 30 seconds of thought, it encapsulates the dark elves to a T in one single word, and heck they even smuggled it into the game, listen to your death hags when you select them!

I had to actually go back to my Malus Darkblade books to find out just how you spelled Sa'an'ishar because it was impossible to google for it when you don't know exactly how its spelled.

I hope you all enjoy it!

new phone who dis
May 24, 2007

by VideoGames
Morbid Hound

Dartonus posted:

In TW2 Norsca’s currently using the old buildings and units it had before its Faction DLC, so they have a ton of free income from settlements (600 for a rank 3 settlement iirc) and have only 2 real factions active in the Norsca area in Mortal Empires (Skaeling and Varg), so they quickly build money and momentum.

For TW1 I suspect it’s due to Norsca’s Special confederation rules (if they beat another Norscan faction’s leader in battle they can force a confederate) letting them snowball off of their early infighting.

They do the same poo poo over in Dark Elf land, too. The AI just can't figure out how to deal with tons of trash stacks.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Arglebargle III posted:

Hey does anyone really know why the Norse factions always end up being strength rank 1? I mean with Dwarfs it's understandable in TW but in TW and TW2 if it's not dwarfs it's a norse faction.

In my hard campaign, Kislev is a 10 city super power and has all the North pretty effectively walled off. They've got two 10+ stacks roaming around my Dwarven mountains doing nothing much and even so don't seem to be having any problem with the Norsca. They're ranked strength 6th.

Edit: Varg is #3 after Tyrion and me. Not sure why though. Neither seems to be doing much.

LLSix fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Dec 31, 2017

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

I just had a battle of Volkmar and Balthazar against three Varg stacks. It ended up with 4600 casualties.

When should I swap swords and crossbows out for halberds and guns?

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010
Have they changed how the camera works recently? It went from "mostly looking at the right things" to a total mess. It likes to focus on some hero half the map away while deciding to totally ignore huge hostile stacks moving through my territory.

Lakedaimon
Jan 11, 2007

Im guessing the Black Arks must be pretty lame unmodded? Thats a shame. I'm still playing my first real game and I see two Arks just sailing back and forth along my coast doing nothing from what I can tell.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 3 days!

LLSix posted:

As Dwarves, when do I want Thunderers instead of Quarrelers? Quarrelers have better range, fire more frequently and do 18 normal/4AP damage. Thunderers do 5 normal/17 AP damage.

I assume I want to replace some portion of my Quarrelers with Irondrake flamethrowers too. Looking forward to testing a pair of them out soon.

I've heard that Thunderers will out damage anything with armor 30 or above, so they can be effective vs trash infantry compared to quarrelers if you can get a clear shot. The fact that the projectiles travel in a flat path also makes it more likely they'll hit something.

It is also pretty easy to get access to a salt mine which gives significant bonuses to gunpowder/flame units. Barak Varr can crank out some very affordable veteran Thunderers and cannon this way.

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

Lakedaimon posted:

Im guessing the Black Arks must be pretty lame unmodded? Thats a shame. I'm still playing my first real game and I see two Arks just sailing back and forth along my coast doing nothing from what I can tell.

they are just regional recruitment instead of global recruitment but anything nearby also gets spell call ins per battle

feller
Jul 5, 2006


Arglebargle III posted:

I just had a battle of Volkmar and Balthazar against three Varg stacks. It ended up with 4600 casualties.

When should I swap swords and crossbows out for halberds and guns?

I don't view halberds as a swordsman upgrade persoanlly. For one thing, they're halberds, not swords, and are way not as good at killing chaff. I would only put more than like 4 halberds (as opposed to greatswords) if I knew I was fighting a lot of chariots and trolls. As for who would bring that, I have no idea....

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016
I used my black arks as giant roombas to pick up ocean garbage, so far this is the best use of them i've found

Fidel Cuckstro
Jul 2, 2007

Is there anything on the unit cards or elsewhere that shows whether a ranged weapon is arced fired or direct?

Particularly wondering about empire grenade launchers...

Captain Beans
Aug 5, 2004

Whar be the beans?
Hair Elf

Fidel Cuckstro posted:

Is there anything on the unit cards or elsewhere that shows whether a ranged weapon is arced fired or direct?

Particularly wondering about empire grenade launchers...

Try them out in a custom battle and see?

Good question on the empire grenade launchers, I assume it would be arch but you never know.

DOCTOR ZIMBARDO
May 8, 2006
The grenade launcher outriders have a very shallow arc, a little shallower than dwarfish mining charges. Treat it as flat since they have such short range otherwise.

I still really enjoy using them but they’re finicky to get just right. They can work behind your lines for a single volley before fanning out to flank or shoot the enemy in the butt while they’re stuck in with the staties.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 3 days!
Grenade launcher outriders are amazing vs chaff infantry and i find them particularly useful vs chaff units that have to cross a considerable distance to reach you. Explosive charges on dwarves can also be devastating but they seem kind of finicky because they have a short range and also a minimum range, so it's easy to get stuck in melee without being able to use them. The most devastating effect I got from them is to use them on a unit halfway disembarked from a siege tower. It is at this point the unit is jammed very tightly and you can hit a ton of models.

New Butt Order
Jun 20, 2017
Holy poo poo Teclis can gently caress up a Vortex campaign something good. The cities I have currently casting the ritual are the Great Turtle Island (SW edge), Tor Elasor (SE corner), and Gaean Vale (central Ulthuan). In what I can only assume was an attempt to average the locations, the Chaos Invasion spawned in the middle of the Sahara and it nowhere near even the fringe of my empire, since Lothern controls the majority of Ulthuan. Good poo poo.

Gonkish
May 19, 2004

Lakedaimon posted:

Im guessing the Black Arks must be pretty lame unmodded? Thats a shame. I'm still playing my first real game and I see two Arks just sailing back and forth along my coast doing nothing from what I can tell.

There's a few issues. They're really shockingly weak in combat, and since they're naval units and thus rely entirely on auto-resolve you essentially have to babysit them constantly, whether they're teched up or not. The AI loves to pick them off because 99% of the time against a competent stack it's a piss-easy win for them, so you invested time and money in something that gets wrecked incredibly easily.

Their unit selection is ok but not great, so while the unit recruitment is interesting it's not really decisive. You can't recruit whole armies off of them, so you're replacing particularly bad losses with worse units more often than not. (You can recruit Hydras and Dragons, however, so that's nice.)

The replenishment they offer is alright but not great, and not hugely noticeable. It works regardless of the territory you're in, which is cool and all, but it's still modified by that territory's climate. If you're in, say, Nagarythe... you're still replenishing agonizingly slowly, even while parked in a city and with an ark nearby.

Really, their most effective advantage are the bombardments, and while they're nice they're not ridiculous, and they really only come into their own after significant time and upgrades.

On top of all of that, they cost a lot of slaves (500) for the rite, which is on a long cooldown, and their growth is so low that it takes a ton of turns to get them to a functional state (they start out only being able to recruit one unit per turn, and it's awful). The upgrades are about as expensive as other infrastructure.

Basically, unmodded Black Arks are a letdown because they don't really give you freedom to do poo poo other races can't do, they just sorta give you mellow perks while simultaneously forcing you to babysit something that is absurdly weak and WILL die to random AI stacks. (And I mean that it WILL. The AI loves sniping Arks. I've had the AI leave a besieged port city to kill a fully-equipped, fully-garrisoned Ark that was nearby, take minimal losses, and then dock back in the loving city all in one turn.) I was hoping they'd give the Dark Elves a feeling of some sort of mixture between a horde faction and the more traditional TW factions. Instead, they function largely the same as other factions (although their economy is much, much easier to snowball), except they have weird boats that die really quick.

Gonkish fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Dec 31, 2017

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Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006

That is such an elfish complaint. "It's not better ENOUGH!" :allears:

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