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Despera posted:Ill post all over your bitch rear end if I like Don't lose a titan over it.
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Jul 14, 2019 19:01
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Xolve posted:Don't lose a titan over it. But it will be a LOT funnier if they do...
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Jul 14, 2019 19:17
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Comstar posted:So, ah, what's happening to Goons and the game, now the blackout is here? r/Eve seems happy but that dosn't tell me much. r/EVE is taking it to the extreme. They're now calling for a permanent blackout of third party services/extreme delays in kb posting/DOTLAN updating. No one has even begun to consider nothing in game has been balanced around this change, let along out of game. Having seen the full arc of EVE myself from inception, this is a honeymoon period in a change, that if kept, will probably do more harm than good. Just I M O.
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Jul 14, 2019 19:59
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Kimsemus posted:r/EVE is taking it to the extreme. They're now calling for a permanent blackout of third party services/extreme delays in kb posting/DOTLAN updating. Eve is definitely not balanced around zkb's level of documentation of PVP activity in Eve. It leads to perverse behavior in regards to choosing when to fight. Killmails by themselves aren't inherently bad, and if killboards were more balkanized, it'd be a lot more healthier. Regarding Dotlan, it's not like the info they receive was turned off. You can poll the API yourself and get the data fresh from the tap, no problem. It's the fault of the players relying on dotlan to have it as a single point of failure.
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Jul 14, 2019 22:37
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:Eve is definitely not balanced around zkb's level of documentation of PVP activity in Eve. It leads to perverse behavior in regards to choosing when to fight. Killmails by themselves aren't inherently bad, and if killboards were more balkanized, it'd be a lot more healthier. With how third party software developers work in Eve, even if there were 20 different killboards someone would build an aggregator. I don't think you can close the door now unless CCP does it at the source, and from what that CCP guy was saying in one of the threads, they consider it "our fault" we gave the zkillboard guy access to all that data.
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Jul 14, 2019 23:07
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LegionAreI posted:With how third party software developers work in Eve, even if there were 20 different killboards someone would build an aggregator. I don't think you can close the door now unless CCP does it at the source, and from what that CCP guy was saying in one of the threads, they consider it "our fault" we gave the zkillboard guy access to all that data. Don't overestimate the amount of coding talent in the game. Dotlan self-censoring is a big deal, and all it does is provide a clean view on publicly accessible data.
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Jul 14, 2019 23:14
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:Don't overestimate the amount of coding talent in the game. Dotlan self-censoring is a big deal, and all it does is provide a clean view on publicly accessible data. tbh there is probably more talent outside of CCP coding third party poo poo for EVE than there is left at CCP to do anything new/novel.
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Jul 14, 2019 23:31
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I get back from the yacht and the first thing that happens is a blue Rorqual eating all the doomsdays 
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Jul 15, 2019 00:07
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Spending those media empire dollars I see...
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Jul 15, 2019 00:34
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Kimsemus posted:tbh there is probably more talent outside of CCP coding third party poo poo for EVE than there is left at CCP to do anything new/novel. This can be true without invalidating what I said. 
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Jul 15, 2019 02:25
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Xolve posted:Don't lose a titan over it. Yeah like all those other times I never lost a titan you idiot. Does it hurt being that stupid?
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Jul 15, 2019 09:39
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I'm 100% ok with blackout being permanent- Bring some incertainty and risk back to Nullsec. In 2008 when I first tried eve- jumping into nullsec for the first time was spooky, and I had no idea what to expect. I'm getting the same feeling today. Of course the krabs/botters will be against it for obvious reasons- which means it's working as intended.
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Jul 15, 2019 12:28
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Cpt Soban posted:I'm 100% ok with blackout being permanent- Bring some incertainty and risk back to Nullsec. In 2008 when I first tried eve- jumping into nullsec for the first time was spooky, and I had no idea what to expect. I'm getting the same feeling today. Just because ‘krabs’ who are doing all the industry things eve needs don’t like the change, it does not follow that it is “working as intended.” Also, I felt the same way when I first jumped into low sec. Ergo, we should get rid of local in low-sec too. I mean, for me the change hasn’t been too bad; however, I am not going to fellate r/eve and CCP over a completely un-thought out massive change to the game. It’s a bit ridiculous, to be honest, to hear people say, like you did, “null was scary when I first jumped in it and now it is again!” Well, no poo poo it was scary as a new player—even though local did exist when you first jumped in null. It still would be for new players with or without local. And it will only take a couple weeks of null with no local for it to normalize in your head and not be scary again.
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Jul 15, 2019 12:46
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ZombieLenin posted:Just because ‘krabs’ who are doing all the industry things eve needs don’t like the change, it does not follow that it is “working as intended.” Eyyy you claimed "industry builds you ships" etc etc. With your logic- PvP players are doing all the things eve needs too= Content, ships and assets exploding- Driving a demand for more assets. The biggest rewards should come with the biggest risks. Parking a Rorqual in a NULLSEC (zero security) system should come with the greatest risks. Relying on alliance security, being awake at your PC, being in fleet and comms, should be an everyday occurence for players earning billions of ISK raking in spod rocks. Blackout forces everyone to take greater risk, and to rely more on their alliance to defend their poo poo, instead of watching Netflix in perfect safety.
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Jul 15, 2019 12:51
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Cpt Soban posted:Eyyy you claimed "industry builds you ships" etc etc. With your logic- PvP players are doing all the things eve needs too= Content, ships and assets exploding- Driving a demand for more assets. source your quotes
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Jul 15, 2019 13:03
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:source your quotes My source comes from the game itself. Zkill is up now, go check it out.
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Jul 15, 2019 13:13
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Cpt Soban posted:Eyyy you claimed "industry builds you ships" etc etc. With your logic- PvP players are doing all the things eve needs too= Content, ships and assets exploding- Driving a demand for more assets. If you don't consider parking a 10b ship+drone for 5 min without the ability to move somewhat risky, then I wonder what's your definition of risk. Even with the super cap umbrella, there'a a bunch of idiots who lose rorqual all the time (And one player famously self-destructed like 20 of them because waiting to die would have taken too long). Also what you say is loving hilarious considering people already rely on the alliance to defend their poo poo. This change will not hamper the coalition in any meaningful way but will definitely hurt less organized groups. Man I've said stupid poo poo in this thread but you just topped all of it.
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Jul 15, 2019 13:51
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Cpt Soban posted:Eyyy you claimed "industry builds you ships" etc etc. With your logic- PvP players are doing all the things eve needs too= Content, ships and assets exploding- Driving a demand for more assets. Well, no poo poo. I spent my first 10 years in this game as a low sec pirate, so I am totally happy with pvp and the people who do it. My comment was more directed to the idea, “if krabbers hate it, it must be good!” I do not think those two things follow, because the krabbers are important to the game too. In fact, poo poo would be hard for people who pvp if we completely discourage krabbing. In other words, the game needs to be balanced around both groups of people, and it’s pretty dumb to think krabbers are “the bad guy” and that anything they do not like is “good.” Edit And like others have said, we in Delve live under a super umbrella—one that has been dropping on anything that moves in Delve at the moment—so this change adds almost no risk to rorqual pilots in the Imperium. Who it hurts is smaller less organized groups who do not have an on call super response fleet. So again about how this is not thought out... It strengthens our (goons) position and the positions of other null sec blocs with super umbrellas. Thus, it literally works to do the thing that r/eve and the eve-o forums complain about all the time, it forces people to join what is slowly becoming the giant blue donut that is 2019 null sec space. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Jul 15, 2019 |
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Jul 15, 2019 13:55
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Dalael posted:If you don't consider parking a 10b ship+drone for 5 min without the ability to move somewhat risky, then I wonder what's your definition of risk. Even with the super cap umbrella, there'a a bunch of idiots who lose rorqual all the time (And one player famously self-destructed like 20 of them because waiting to die would have taken too long). He's probably not someone who engages in the activity itself, so to him anything that makes it "harder" is fine, if it makes what he wants to do easier. If he's not, then he just doesn't understand how it works I guess. The bottom line of this change? Nothing in-game or OOG is balanced around a null without local. Covert Ops are still a thing, covert cynos are still a thing, interdiction nullification is still a thing. The economy itself will take time to adjust to the higher risk of doing mundane things like sites for t2 rigs, mining, and faction/meta modules. The difficulty/uncertainty of doing every task has now been increased across the board, rorq mining is just a bad example of something that might be affected. It would be more useful to consider the activities of the vast majority of pilots who don't mine in 15b worth of kit on a daily basis. I'm sure people who primarily PVP love this change so far -- until people begin to adapt around it. The market/PVE economy? Well it's still going to be in a bubble since the change hasn't been around long, but that's not going to be fun after while either imo. Fundamentally, this cements the supremacy of orgs like Goonswarm in EVE, while crippling small/developing ones further. They won't have near the HR advantages now required to do things with a modicum of safety. IMO it's a stupid change. It's CCP tugging one lever to shake things up, as usual, without thinking through the end result. Kimsemus fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Jul 15, 2019 |
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Jul 15, 2019 14:40
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Why would this change hurt the economy/market stuff? If minerals cost more or if there is less money floating around from ratting then it all sort of FREE HAND balances itself out in the end, right? I think the change is good because it's fun and everyone aside from the guy multiboxing Rorquals seems to be enjoying it, at least in the short term
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Jul 15, 2019 14:59
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:Why would this change hurt the economy/market stuff? If minerals cost more or if there is less money floating around from ratting then it all sort of FREE HAND balances itself out in the end, right? how it affects the game overall depends on how people ultimately react to it. right now, people are still in the figuring things out stage. if the reaction though is basically to put less ships in space then that just means less stuff in space to have blown up, which is obviously not great for any market/pve stuff. so for example if people stop ratting with supercaps (unlikely, since supercaps are now the safest ship to rat in) then suddenly i can sell less ametats, and if i can sell less ametats i'm less interested in oodles of fermionic condensates, and therefore the price of r64s declines. also the distinct impression i've been getting is that while lots of people are busy claiming they're loving the changes on reddit, anyone who has set foot in delve has gotten bosoned out of existence immediately to the point where they're already starting to give up. who'd have thunk it, a chance that makes it much more difficult to live in null will not hurt the best-organized group (who, for reasons based in recent history, have designed their homeland with a slight level of defensive paranoia) in the game
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Jul 15, 2019 15:12
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Let the boys play, coach. The blackout and Zkill being blacked out have been a blast. No free intel and I’ve been in fights all weekend where groups have literally stumbled into each other and brawled it out. It’s been a welcome shakeup in the least.
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Jul 15, 2019 15:14
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Loky11 posted:Let the boys play, coach. i think that "we're gonna shut off local temporally as an event to make things different/test to see what would actually happen" isn't the worst idea in the world. pairing it with the drifter nonsense was not the best idea though, i would have separated the two so you'd get cleaner data/not had people's feelings w/r/t the drifters bleed into this.
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Jul 15, 2019 15:22
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Ultimately won't sub numbers decide how long they leave this on or do it again? If it dips hard enough because small group null players can't do anything then I imagine they'd turn it back on.
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Jul 15, 2019 15:39
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As we expected the nullsec blackout is really hurting the poorer people who subcap rat for money. I've had quite a few evemails and PM's from people asking what they can do because they're frustrated at dying to bomber gangs which they can't dscan and can't avoid now at all. The entire chain of getting new players setup currently depends on them having a way to independently make money with reasonably low effort and that main faucet is turned off now. They all seem quite frustrated about the whole thing and most of them are months away from being able to fly a rorqual or carrier that would actually be able to survive until faxes can drop. And that doesn't even count the isk investment in that which they won't be able to afford without subcap ratting.
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Jul 15, 2019 15:42
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L0cke17 posted:As we expected the nullsec blackout is really hurting the poorer people who subcap rat for money. I've had quite a few evemails and PM's from people asking what they can do because they're frustrated at dying to bomber gangs which they can't dscan and can't avoid now at all. yeah both the drifter thing and this hugely benefit capital and supercapital ratting and mining: because those ships live long enough to summon reinforcements (and require a gang to kill that makes the reinforcements eager to come and kill that gang) it's not the guy multiboxing five rorquals who is pissed off at this change: that guy can summon fifty titans to counterdrop any gang that hits him. it's the guy mining in a hulk who dies before anyone could possibly come help him.
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Jul 15, 2019 15:44
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L0cke17 posted:As we expected the nullsec blackout is really hurting the poorer people who subcap rat for money. I've had quite a few evemails and PM's from people asking what they can do because they're frustrated at dying to bomber gangs which they can't dscan and can't avoid now at all. this is pretty much what I expected would happen -- the change disproportionally affects new players and small groups. This is why people discussing how this change affects rorqual mining like that is the bellwether for success, IMO, are stupid.
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Jul 15, 2019 15:47
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trickle down economics works!!
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Jul 15, 2019 15:50
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Kimsemus posted:The difficulty/uncertainty of doing every task has now been increased across the board, rorq mining is just a bad example of something that might be affected. It would be more useful to consider the activities of the vast majority of pilots who don't mine in 15b worth of kit on a daily basis. Regarding this point... Considering how much mineral is mined in Delve (output is bigger than the rest of the game combined), and how many members the Imperium has compared to how many people play this game, I would venture a guess that the vast majority of players own at least one. Heck, I'm willing to bet the majority of non-imperium members who are aware that null is a thing (ie not highsec pubbies) have at least 1 character in the Imperium for easy money.
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Jul 15, 2019 15:57
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evilweasel posted:how it affects the game overall depends on how people ultimately react to it. right now, people are still in the figuring things out stage. if the reaction though is basically to put less ships in space then that just means less stuff in space to have blown up, which is obviously not great for any market/pve stuff. so for example if people stop ratting with supercaps (unlikely, since supercaps are now the safest ship to rat in) then suddenly i can sell less ametats, and if i can sell less ametats i'm less interested in oodles of fermionic condensates, and therefore the price of r64s declines. It's not real paranoia until all Asstrahus have been replaced by Keepstars 
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Jul 15, 2019 15:59
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Dalael posted:Regarding this point... Considering how much mineral is mined in Delve (output is bigger than the rest of the game combined), and how many members the Imperium has compared to how many people play this game, I would venture a guess that the vast majority of players own at least one. Heck, I'm willing to bet the majority of non-imperium members who are aware that null is a thing (ie not highsec pubbies) have at least 1 character in the Imperium for easy money. According to the most recent goon census about this 19% of goons had less than 10bil in combined assets and liquid, which means they don't own any rorquals most likely. 26% made their money ratting and only 20% made their money mining. I don't think it is quite as common as you think it is for goons to be rorqual mining, it's much more likely that a minority mines that huge amount and the rest dont interact with that system at all at the moment.
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Jul 15, 2019 16:06
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L0cke17 posted:According to the most recent goon census about this 19% of goons had less than 10bil in combined assets and liquid, which means they don't own any rorquals most likely. 26% made their money ratting and only 20% made their money mining. I think you are misinterpretting the numbers you're giving me. 19% of goons have less than 10bil in combined assets means that 81% of goons have more than 10bil in combined asset. When you say 26% are ratting and 20% are mining, are these percentage based on all goons, or only that 19% ?
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Jul 15, 2019 16:17
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Dalael posted:I think you are misinterpretting the numbers you're giving me. 19% of goons have less than 10bil in combined assets means that 81% of goons have more than 10bil in combined asset. Uh even if 81% have > 10b yet of the same polling group only 26% rat and 20% mine that means 54% of that polling group make money either doing industry/reactions or marketing (or they just buy plex with cash) or they run burners or exploration or whatever else
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Jul 15, 2019 16:33
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Still willing to bet that a large part of the players have at least 1.
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Jul 15, 2019 16:35
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Dalael posted:I think you are misinterpretting the numbers you're giving me. 19% of goons have less than 10bil in combined assets means that 81% of goons have more than 10bil in combined asset. Out of all goons who responded to the survey only 20% mined as their primary income source.
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Jul 15, 2019 16:45
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where are the days of ratting in a rattlesnake to make isk?
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Jul 15, 2019 17:29
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adary posted:where are the days of ratting in a rattlesnake to make isk? Behind us. vOv
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Jul 15, 2019 17:58
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Dalael posted:Regarding this point... Considering how much mineral is mined in Delve (output is bigger than the rest of the game combined), and how many members the Imperium has compared to how many people play this game, I would venture a guess that the vast majority of players own at least one. Heck, I'm willing to bet the majority of non-imperium members who are aware that null is a thing (ie not highsec pubbies) have at least 1 character in the Imperium for easy money. This grossly, grossly inaccurate, even by internal polling standards. Most people don't mine to begin with, of those, most don't have Rorqs. The guy getting the poo poo pounded out of him is the guy in the barge, not the goon aristocrat in a rorq with a cyno begging someone to drop them. You also have to think beyond the Imperium. A wet blanket just got thrown over all other groups imo. Goons are well situated enough now, financially and logistically that they are basically immune to drastic game change to begin with. I would caution against the danger huffing your own farts instead of taking seriously how changes affect the rest of the game and population, which are the content drivers the Imperium needs anyway.
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Jul 15, 2019 18:05
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Kimsemus posted:This grossly, grossly inaccurate, even by internal polling standards. i make my money for eve by selling special videos to taiwanese businessmen
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Jul 15, 2019 18:07
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Landsknecht posted:i make my money for eve by selling special videos to taiwanese businessmen tbh I still make decent isk buying characters and turning them into withered, skill-drained husks. Even that is an evaporating market though.  L0cke17 posted:As we expected the nullsec blackout is really hurting the poorer people who subcap rat for money. I've had quite a few evemails and PM's from people asking what they can do because they're frustrated at dying to bomber gangs which they can't dscan and can't avoid now at all. TBH this post summed up the problem for non-imperium groups in a nutshell. Kimsemus fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jul 15, 2019 |
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Jul 15, 2019 18:09
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