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Jamie Kellner probably didn't care if it was making a mint. He was that big of a dickhead.
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Mar 8, 2014 00:07
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haljordan posted:Well obviously. He was in "Over The Top." 
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Mar 8, 2014 00:50
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Red posted:Is it accurate to see Goldberg as the golden boy of WCW? If anything the WCW didn't back Goldberg hard enough. If you look at the mainstream publicity he was clearly their hottest star, but they ended the streak too early, his title reign too early, and kept him kinda second fiddle through '99 and 2000.
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Mar 8, 2014 03:06
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triplexpac posted:Road Wild 98 actually did a good buyrate, so I guess Leno was worth it. Had Road Wild '98 been booked WITHOUT Leno and that stupid angle, I don't think the PPV would've tanked. Right? I'd be impressed if someone could justify the time and money spent on promoting the Talk Show feud, to where the investment actually made them money. But I doubt it. However, Malone actually did okay, for a celeb wrestler. He didn't embarrass himself, and genuinely seemed interested in working with DDP, which is more than I can say for Rodman. But, again, did the money spent on those two come back, with profit, in PPV buys? I fully expect someone to point out that exposure from mainstream celebrities provides brand exposure, and all that jazz - which I agree with, but just not to the degree that WCW seemed to think. They had tons of puppets, and cheerleaders, and bands, and rappers, and they're no longer in business. DeathChicken posted:Jackie Chan? When did I miss that one? Wasn't he one of the real-life tough guys that cheered on Goldberg along with JCVD and Norris?
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Mar 8, 2014 03:40
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Road Wild did just above the average buyrate for WCW in 98. Leno was in no way worth it, especially since they could have built up a big Goldberg singles match instead, at a time when he was red hot. It would also mean no nWo Nightcap ruining Nitro and killing ratings that month. Bash at the Beach was really profitable for WCW.
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Mar 8, 2014 03:43
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MassRafTer posted:Leno was in no way worth it
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Mar 8, 2014 03:49
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I just remembered Will Sasso's Mad TV feud with Bret Hart - how did that work out?
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Mar 8, 2014 03:50
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Red posted:I just remembered Will Sasso's Mad TV feud with Bret Hart - how did that work out? Badly, for everyone. Especially anyone watching it.
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Mar 8, 2014 04:05
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nWo Nightcap might very well be the worst wrestling television ever produced. It was intentionally insufferable, a goal they more than surpassed, and the segments could run as long as twenty minutes all in an attempt to mock Jay Leno to set up a Jay Leno wrestling match.
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Mar 8, 2014 04:07
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I only really remember Mark Madden calling him "Will Fatso". Which reminds me of Mean Gene versus Mark Madden, of which the only bright point was Madden didn't win.
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Mar 8, 2014 04:08
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Red posted:However, Malone actually did okay, for a celeb wrestler. He didn't embarrass himself, and genuinely seemed interested in working with DDP, which is more than I can say for Rodman. But, again, did the money spent on those two come back, with profit, in PPV buys? Malone and Rodman played each other maybe a week before their PPV match, and there were a couple of times where they were obviously doing poo poo to build interest for the match. They kept fouling each other, and on a fast break got tangled up and flopped around well behind the play. I think even the play-by-play guy was embarrassed by it and said something like "And here they're obviously trying to make some news for their upcoming  wrestling match."now I have to go back and watch the match because I remember them being okay at some basic stuff, but they looked oddly skinny next to all the WCW guys. I think that was the last of the celebrity stunt booking that actually worked.
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Mar 8, 2014 04:37
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Static Rook posted:Malone and Rodman played each other maybe a week before their PPV match, and there were a couple of times where they were obviously doing poo poo to build interest for the match. They kept fouling each other, and on a fast break got tangled up and flopped around well behind the play. I think even the play-by-play guy was embarrassed by it and said something like "And here they're obviously trying to make some news for their upcoming I remember Malone doing the diamond cutter sign during a game, and Bob Costas ripped him for it.
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Mar 8, 2014 04:45
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oatgan posted:nWo Nightcap might very well be the worst wrestling television ever produced. It was intentionally insufferable, a goal they more than surpassed, and the segments could run as long as twenty minutes all in an attempt to mock Jay Leno to set up a Jay Leno wrestling match. It's the one lovely thing in wrestling history that has always been difficult to find youtube videos of. No one has any interest in uploading that garbage.
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Mar 8, 2014 04:48
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gently caress Bob Costas
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Mar 8, 2014 05:07
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haljordan posted:Only $10,000? That seems cheap for Buffer. I heard that by the end he was milking them for all their Billionaire Ted bucks and charging them upwards of $200k per appearance. Buffer adds legitimacy but not $100,000 worth of legitimacy. He was also doing UFC when he signed the exclusive WCW deal. Imagine if UFC was being done by Buffer for the last 15 years. Luigi Thirty fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Mar 8, 2014 05:13
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I honestly have to give the man credit for milking that one thing as much as anyone possibly could, and doing so successfully. Granted it helped that WCW spent money like a drunken sailor on shore leave.
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Mar 8, 2014 05:15
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Luigi Thirty posted:I heard that by the end he was milking them for all their Billionaire Ted bucks and charging them upwards of $200k per appearance. Buffer adds legitimacy but not $100,000 worth of legitimacy. There's no way it was anywhere close to that. 10K seems like the most reliable number. This is a company that was cutting costs in late 95 and their average gate for major shows was under $100,000. They weren't paying that or twice that to Buffer.
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Mar 8, 2014 05:15
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MassRafTer posted:There's no way it was anywhere close to that. 10K seems like the most reliable number. This is a company that was cutting costs in late 95 and their average gate for major shows was under $100,000. They weren't paying that or twice that to Buffer. I'm talking about 2001 after they spent millions on celebrities to sit around and do nothing, not 1995.
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Mar 8, 2014 05:18
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Chris Gaines posted:gently caress Bob Costas Eh, to be fair to Costas, Malone and Rodman were being paid handsomely to win a professional basketball game, not try to work in a way to promote a wrestling match during an NBA broadcast.
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Mar 8, 2014 05:53
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Luigi Thirty posted:I'm talking about 2001 after they spent millions on celebrities to sit around and do nothing, not 1995. I don't think he got a 10x or 20x pay raise over that period. Hogan or Nash would not be happy that Michael Buffer was the highest paid performer on Nitro.
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Mar 8, 2014 05:57
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I thought I read somewhere that they got a discount on Buffer because of the Turner umbrella?
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Mar 8, 2014 06:39
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Maxwell Lord posted:I honestly have to give the man credit for milking that one thing as much as anyone possibly could, and doing so successfully. He was on Stern one time and yea the guy basically has the greatest life ever. Most of the interview was spent discussing his smoking hot girlfriend.
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Mar 8, 2014 15:32
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Well, it is Stern.
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Mar 8, 2014 15:48
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Maxwell Lord posted:If anything the WCW didn't back Goldberg hard enough. If you look at the mainstream publicity he was clearly their hottest star, but they ended the streak too early, his title reign too early, and kept him kinda second fiddle through '99 and 2000. All I remember is that Goldberg won the title and yet was not in main events still. He was still going before Hogan on PPVs. Plus, they didn't build up any threats to him so when he was defending his title it was against people who had no business being in heavyweight championship matches at all. Plus he would still dominate the matches so it was hard to care when you knew Goldberg was going to dominate.
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Mar 8, 2014 23:06
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ColeM posted:All I remember is that Goldberg won the title and yet was not in main events still. He was still going before Hogan on PPVs. Plus, they didn't build up any threats to him so when he was defending his title it was against people who had no business being in heavyweight championship matches at all. Plus he would still dominate the matches so it was hard to care when you knew Goldberg was going to dominate. I think half the reason Goldberg/Raven worked so well is because A.) the Flock stable presented a real challenge to Bill, and B.) WCW fans were conditioned to expect run-ins and screwjob finishes.
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Mar 8, 2014 23:54
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haljordan posted:He was on Stern one time and yea the guy basically has the greatest life ever. Most of the interview was spent discussing his smoking hot girlfriend. Doesn't matter how much he made off WCW, he's still made tens of millions of dollars in his career, not just from announcing but from licensing his likeness and especially his catchphrase.
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Mar 9, 2014 05:55
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Red posted:Eh, to be fair to Costas, Malone and Rodman were being paid handsomely to win a professional basketball game, not try to work in a way to promote a wrestling match during an NBA broadcast. That's not what happened. It was a Finals game, they didn't gently caress with it just to promote a match. They got tangled up and then Rodman tripped him repeatedly when they were trying to get up. They were both notoriously dirty players in a heated game, and neither of them particularly liked the other. It didn't have anything to do with the stupid match. It looked kinda like wrestling so Costas brought that up, and he did it in a disgusted tone because he hates pro wrestling (see his notorious interview with Vince on his HBO show years later). He said something like "I can't believe Malone would lower himself to doing one of those fake wrestling matches" or something to that effect (which is idiotic, since Malone is country is gently caress and loved wrestling, and has done stuff that is way scummier than pretend fighting). He wasn't disgusted because he thought they were staging something, he was just disgusted by the idea of a real athlete participating in pro wrestling.
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Mar 9, 2014 07:36
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MourningView posted:He wasn't disgusted because he thought they were staging something, he was just disgusted by the idea of a real athlete participating in pro wrestling. you watch that stuff?" Wrestling carried that stigma of being a "fake sport with fake athletes" for a long time but it seems to have worn off through time.
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Mar 9, 2014 14:49
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Sometimes, well, a lot of times actually, discussing WCW is like a limbo. We always come back to certain points in time, like how much money went to celebrities and Buffer, we mention Arquette, piped in Goldberg chants, Nash the booker... I'd really like to find out something new, which I hadn't noticed when I was watching it. But I do remember talking online about Goldberg's potentially piped in chants back when he was getting his initial push. The thing is, you can pretty much isolate a couple of voices in the those chants, and it's impossible that the same exact voices just pop out in every WCW crowd. My belief is that the chants were canned heat just to get the fans going and carry on the chants. WCW had a lot... Of everything. As I've had a hiatus from watching, I went on a Ruthless Aggression binge, and you can see how much WCW meant to wrestling as a whole. Not just by star power, but by style as well. Raw and SmackDown each got their share of WCW names, most of which should have been (but couldn't) used during the Invasion, but SmackDown obviously borrowed the tone of WCW, while Raw remained more WWF. I'm watching every SmackDown, show and PPV, but for Raw, I'm only watching PPVs.
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Mar 9, 2014 18:07
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Reminder that Bob Costas named one of his kids after Kirby Puckett, a guy who would easily put half the wrestlers listed in the carnies thread to shame.
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Mar 9, 2014 18:13
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Fauxhawk Express posted:Reminder that Bob Costas named one of his kids after Kirby Puckett, a guy who would easily put half the wrestlers listed in the carnies thread to shame. And Karl Malone is terrible for wrestling, but not for fathering a kid with a 13 year old when he was 20, I guess.
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Mar 9, 2014 21:13
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MourningView posted:That's not what happened. It was a Finals game, they didn't gently caress with it just to promote a match. They got tangled up and then Rodman tripped him repeatedly when they were trying to get up. They were both notoriously dirty players in a heated game, and neither of them particularly liked the other. It didn't have anything to do with the stupid match. It looked kinda like wrestling so Costas brought that up, and he did it in a disgusted tone because he hates pro wrestling (see his notorious interview with Vince on his HBO show years later). He said something like "I can't believe Malone would lower himself to doing one of those fake wrestling matches" or something to that effect (which is idiotic, since Malone is country is gently caress and loved wrestling, and has done stuff that is way scummier than pretend fighting). He wasn't disgusted because he thought they were staging something, he was just disgusted by the idea of a real athlete participating in pro wrestling. I'm remembering highlights of a game where Malone did the diamond cutter sign. Different game, or garbled memory?
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Mar 10, 2014 01:43
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Red posted:I'm remembering highlights of a game where Malone did the diamond cutter sign. Different game, or garbled memory? I don't think it was that game but I don't doubt that he did it. He was a legit fan and buds with DDP. Why would doing a celebration after the play was over be detracting from the game? It's not really any different than doing like a fist pump or whatever.
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Mar 10, 2014 01:46
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Page said he did and that's what led to the whole angle but I never saw the video of it.
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Mar 10, 2014 01:46
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I remember the brief period WCW was ahead there was a lot of hilarious smug from WCW fans online and a lot of hilarious impotent rage from WWF fans. My favorite was claiming Goldberg was a sham and his streak was made up because he apparently lost a dark house match to like, Glacier or something around win number 40. Which is true, but a really dumb thing to quibble about.
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Mar 10, 2014 01:56
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greatn posted:I remember the brief period WCW was ahead there was a lot of hilarious smug from WCW fans online and a lot of hilarious impotent rage from WWF fans. My favorite was claiming Goldberg was a sham and his streak was made up because he apparently lost a dark house match to like, Glacier or something around win number 40. Which is true, but a really dumb thing to quibble about. The most common rumor was that he was one of the guys who tried out for Piper's Uncensored 97 team and thus the streak was a sham. That was of course the legendary Horshu.
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Mar 10, 2014 02:19
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oldpainless posted:Page said he did and that's what led to the whole angle but I never saw the video of it. I think that can be found on The Rise and Fall of WCW DVD, they go into a little bit of depth on the whole Malone/Rodman thing. As ever, much of the DVD is fairly heavily biased in favor of WWE, although I seem to recall them treating that particular feud and matchup as being a decent idea.
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Mar 10, 2014 02:40
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MassRafTer posted:The most common rumor was that he was one of the guys who tried out for Piper's Uncensored 97 team and thus the streak was a sham. That was of course the legendary Horshu. The other big one is he came on the road for a weekend before the streak started and lost to Eddie Guerrero, negating the whole streak from the start. I never cared enough to dispute it.
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Mar 10, 2014 16:38
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Man, do some wrestling fans not understand what a streak is? It's just a lot of wins in a row. If you lose before your win streak starts, that doesn't negate the streak  Unless of course WCW would say Goldberg was never beaten ever before during the streak, which is a different issue to the streak anyway.
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Mar 11, 2014 01:08
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MysticalMachineGun posted:Man, do some wrestling fans not understand what a streak is? It's just a lot of wins in a row. If you lose before your win streak starts, that doesn't negate the streak The idea was Goldberg was completely undefeated, 1XX-0 and so people tried to invent losses that never happened.
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Mar 11, 2014 01:11
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