|
sweet geek swag posted:Gandalf's letter, left in July, told Frodo to leave for Rivendell immediately. If Frodo had recieved that letter he would have reached Rivendell at least a month before the Ringwraiths even reached the Shire. If Gandalf hadn't relied on a full time inn keeper to deliver a snail mail, he could have gotten word to Frodo a lot quicker. Let's stop pretending that Gandlaf handled it correctly, eh?
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2020 23:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 03:11 |
|
|
Who else could he have given it to? It’s not like Bree-folk are visiting the shire everyday. If there wasn’t a ranger or some other trustworthy traveler around at the time, Barliman was pretty much the only way the message had a prayer of getting to Frodo at all (because he was likeliest to find or employ such a person; Gandalf definitely didn’t intend for him to do the delivery himself). At the very least Barliman could be counted on not to actively betray them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:45
|
|
|
And it's not like Barliman had even the slightest notion of how deadly serious that letter was.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:56
|
|
|
Innkeepers where the mailmen of the time
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 00:59
|
|
|
Gandalf himself admitted he hosed up with regards to the message didn’t he? Barliman may have been the only choice but dude was busy af and he did right by Frodo in the end
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 01:07
|
|
|
HIJK posted:Gandalf himself admitted he hosed up with regards to the message didn’t he? Barliman may have been the only choice but dude was busy af and he did right by Frodo in the end In the postscript of the message itself, even. “A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room.”
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 01:29
|
|
|
skasion posted:In the postscript of the message itself, even. “A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room.” Full of... lumber?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:10
|
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:Full of... lumber? “Like a lumber-room: thing wanted always buried.” It sounds proverbial, idk if it is a real one or if Tolkien made it up. Also lumber rooms are a (older) British thing, it’s not literal lumber, it’s like the furniture storage. Where you put your old chairs and poo poo. skasion fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Dec 17, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:14
|
|
|
As a hyphenated word phrase, it is likely a middle earth idiom translated to English
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:16
|
|
|
I guess the letter thingy reflects Tolkien's theology too; here is a literal angel on an actual mission from God, who still relies on ordinary humans (and a healthy dose of Providence) to get stuff done.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:36
|
|
|
Yeah why didn’t he just dream Frodo the message ?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:38
|
|
|
He does dream of Gandalf’s escape from Orthanc in Bombadil’s house. I doubt you can write someone a letter in their dream, even if you are a wizard. Can you even trust someone dreaming would be able to read it and remember it?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:44
|
|
|
It was a joke !!!!!!
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:44
|
|
|
The easiest thing would have been to just have an Eagle fly a letter to Frodo
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:47
|
|
|
Ginette Reno posted:The easiest thing would have been to just have an Eagle fly a letter to Frodo Lamo
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:47
|
|
|
Here's a question. Could Gollum have claimed the ring in the same way Frodo did at Mount Doom? I don't think he could. Gollum had met Sauron, after all. I think he would have tried to keep it from Sauron but he knew who the Master of the Ring was and it certainly wasn't a hosed up Hobbit named Smeagol.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:49
|
|
|
Why does the ring make mortals invisible, even in the very cracks of Doom? Surely when Sauron put it on it didn't make him invisible. I know the meta-answer is that Tolkien invented the ring for 'The Hobbit' with no idea at the time that it would be "The One Ring" that would connect the larger story, it was just a magic invisibility ring, but what's the in-universe explanation? Gandalf says Gollum "(W)as very pleased with his discovery and he concealed it; and he used it to find out secrets, and he put his knowledge to crooked and malicious uses. He became sharp-eyed and keen-eared for all that was hurtful. The ring had given him power according to his stature." i.e. it made the sneaky, secretive Gollum invisible. Why would it make Isildur invisible? Or Bilbo and Frodo? Would it have made Boromir invisible? Or Aragorn?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:57
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Innkeepers where the mailmen of the time I Would Like To Know More
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:57
|
|
|
VanSandman posted:Here's a question. Could Gollum have claimed the ring in the same way Frodo did at Mount Doom? I don't think he could. Gollum had met Sauron, after all. I think he would have tried to keep it from Sauron but he knew who the Master of the Ring was and it certainly wasn't a hosed up Hobbit named Smeagol. I mean, I think he could have. It wasn't very likely to happen because of Gollum's intrinsic cowardice, but he absolutely could have. He even speculated about using the ring to become a great lord in one of the conversations Sam overheard him having with himself.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:58
|
|
|
Tree Bucket posted:I Would Like To Know More Letters were sent by posting them on a board at an inn (where we get “post” from”) An inn Employee or “independent contractor” would take them and deliver them I may have made this all up idk it sounds right
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 02:59
|
|
|
euphronius posted:I may have made this all up idk it sounds right The delivery people had to be heavily armoured in case of bandit attack, and were known as "Mailed-Men," from whence we derive our modern term "mail man." This is fun, I should write a book! e: in order to avoid being accosted at feudal border crossings by troops hostile to their own liege, message-carriers formally renounced their personal identity at the start of each journey. Under this system they were known simply as "a being"- in French, "l'être"- from whence we ultimately derive our modern term, "letter." Tree Bucket fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Dec 17, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 03:02
|
|
|
Letters used to be written and sealed with “Useful Sir, Please Send” written on the outside which eventually got shortened to “USPS” which is where we get USPS from.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 03:09
|
|
|
Stamp is actually an acronym for "Send To Addressed Man, Please"
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 03:11
|
|
|
Imagined posted:Why does the ring make mortals invisible, even in the very cracks of Doom? Surely when Sauron put it on it didn't make him invisible. In general it seems like the Ring makes you more "you" and able to command and dominate others. Other sorceries presumably required advanced practice, if you were not already of the wizardly persuasion. It would have been real loving bad if Saruman had gotten it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 03:11
|
|
|
Imagined posted:Why does the ring make mortals invisible, even in the very cracks of Doom? Surely when Sauron put it on it didn't make him invisible. It may be that that’s just what we see it used for. It had good reason to make Isildur invisible, he put it on when he was hoping to escape from a horde of orcs that had just massacred his whole household and retinue. Bilbo also has a need to escape from his enemies at the time when he first puts on the ring. Frodo too, when it puts it on at Weathertop. He’s already worn it before that for less reason, but he was already conditioned by Bilbo’s story to think of it as “a ring that makes you invisible.” Frodo asks Galadriel why he can’t hear the other ringbearers’ thoughts and she pretty much says, “how would you know, you haven’t even tried, and if you did it would kill you.” So I guess is that if you’re a pathetic little homey guy like Bilbo or Frodo, hiding you is about all it’s good for. But if you’re a wizard or elf or elf-blooded lord...Boromir says himself what he thinks the ring would do: “give me power of Command.” Though I guess he could be wrong.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 03:16
|
|
|
Wearing the One Ring pulls you into the Unseen wraith-world. Tolkien never goes into terribly great depth on what all goes on in the Unseen world, and I imagine this is intentional on his part. We do know that the Ringwraiths exist mostly in the Unseen. This is why Frodo is able to perceive their true forms when he wears the ring at Weathertop, and why they become even more aware of his presence despite his disappearing from the Seen. But the wraith-world is not "bad". The Ainur also exist both at once in the Seen and Unseen, as do the High Elves. The Fellowship of the Ring, Many Meetings posted:"And here in Rivendell there live still some of his chief foes: the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power." Presumably, already existing in the Unseen, the Ainur and the High Elves would remain visible while wearing the One Ring.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 06:42
|
|
|
Falathrim posted:Presumably, already existing in the Unseen, the Ainur and the High Elves would remain visible while wearing the One Ring. You could argue that previously being visible / seeing in both (and Frodo only in one), they would now be invisible in both.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 14:50
|
|
|
Tom was visible to the hobbits.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 14:56
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Tom was visible to the hobbits. Yes, but it isn't clear that Tom exists in the spirit world. Maybe the Ring just doesn't work on him at all? Gandalf never seemed to think that Tom might be at risk of using the ring, whatever other dangers would come from Tom holding it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 16:13
|
|
|
Tom puts on the ring IIRC, it just has no effect on him because he is "the master", so powerful and utterly in control of himself and his domain that the ring has no power over him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 16:36
|
|
|
Imagined posted:Tom puts on the ring IIRC, it just has no effect on him because he is "the master", so powerful and utterly in control of himself and his domain that the ring has no power over him. He does put it on and nothing at all happens. Frodo doesn't even feel anything about handing it over iirc, and definitely doesn't get upset about him putting it on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 16:45
|
|
|
tolkien really shows his bias for england when he has Maybe God hang out in just a forest by some dells and not like, where you can see or climb mountains
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 16:52
|
|
|
Ravenfood posted:He does put it on and nothing at all happens. Frodo doesn't even feel anything about handing it over iirc, and definitely doesn't get upset about him putting it on. Frodo follows Tom’s command, hands it over without a fuss and immediately feels astonished that he did it. Then as soon as he has it back he starts getting salty and feels like Tom is making fun of him, and waits for a moment to put it on and sneak out the door.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 17:04
|
|
|
WoodrowSkillson posted:tolkien really shows his bias for england when he has Maybe God hang out in just a forest by some dells and not like, where you can see or climb mountains Bombadil is definitely not God. His complete indifference to the world outside his territory pretty much confirms this. There is simply no way that Tolkien would portray God like he portrays Tom Bombadil. The whole point of Tom Bombadil is that he is a mystery. People trying to find a place to put him in the Middle-earth cosmology are missing the point.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 17:25
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:I like the idea that there's a finite source of explainable things, and they had to funnel all that unexplained phenomena somewhere, it just happened to be into a druid in rainboots.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 17:35
|
|
|
skasion posted:But if you’re a wizard or elf or elf-blooded lord...Boromir says himself what he thinks the ring would do: “give me power of Command.” Though I guess he could be wrong. Galadriel seems to think so too, with the added wrinkle that it'll do it by basically making her Sauron Mk II. But whatever it does won't help you when actual Sauron comes to take it back, since Tolkien says Sauron has no fear of the Ring.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 17:51
|
|
|
The struggle to make sense of tom is fun. The fact that there's possibilities to his mystery enhance the mystery.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 17:51
|
|
|
Ginette Reno posted:The easiest thing would have been to just have an Eagle fly a letter to Frodo Could have just had an eagle carry frodo to mount doom and drop him with the ring into it. Not like an eagle could have used the ring, as they haven't got fingers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 17:57
|
|
|
Gats Akimbo posted:Galadriel seems to think so too, with the added wrinkle that it'll do it by basically making her Sauron Mk II. Which come to think of it feeds into Gandalf telling Denethor he wouldn't have known Boromir when he returned if he'd managed to take the Ring. (It's one of my favourite lines; skin-crawling in its implications but so subtle.) SHISHKABOB posted:The struggle to make sense of tom is fun. The fact that there's possibilities to his mystery enhance the mystery. Tom is awesome. He wanders in, sings a couple of songs, chaos dunks the author's written history of his subcreation and wanders off again. Tom Bom Jolly Tom.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 18:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 03:11 |
|
|
Bombadil and goldberry are 100% maia. its not even debatable .
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2020 18:09
|
|