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Catberry posted:I don't remember what problem prompted that design. It's at least two years old. Why make the loops instead of a load balancer at the beginning?
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Mar 21, 2017 17:28
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totalnewbie posted:Why make the loops instead of a load balancer at the beginning? All the load balancers I made ended up with only putting ore on one side of the belt instead of both so when the output was clogged on one side the system would feed a single line to the other side. The loop uses the spare side for surplus ore. If you have say... 10 ores per second going in on both sides of a belt. The balancer will give 5 per second to each row of furnaces. If one side gets clogged, that side gets 0 per second and the other side gets 5 per second. The loop feeds the ore of the clogged side into the functional side so that side then gets 10 per second. Maybe it can only handle 7 per second but it means the processing limit remains the capability of the furnaces and not the speed of the balancer. Ideally each side of furnaces will be upgraded to be able to smelt ore faster than the system brings them in. That way one side of furnaces can compensate for the other when needed. Catberry fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 17:48
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loops are real good for the following reasons:
There might be more but I never got past point #1
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Mar 21, 2017 18:11
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Catberry posted:All the load balancers I made ended up with only putting ore on one side of the belt instead of both so when the output was clogged on one side the system would feed a single line to the other side. The loop uses the spare side for surplus ore. But if you use a load balancer, the furnaces can all pull from the same belt, which means that if one side is clogged then there is always ore for the furnaces to pull from. Because you only have a single belt incoming, you're always limited by the belt capacity anyway.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:16
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totalnewbie posted:But if you use a load balancer, the furnaces can all pull from the same belt, which means that if one side is clogged then there is always ore for the furnaces to pull from. Because you only have a single belt incoming, you're always limited by the belt capacity anyway. I could never get a load balancer to turn two incoming lines of ore on a single belt into four lines split over two belts.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:25
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Catberry posted:I could never get a load balancer to turn two incoming lines of ore on a single belt into four lines split over two belts. Just use a splitter?
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Mar 21, 2017 18:35
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There is probably a more efficient way of doing it, but this worked pretty well for me:code:
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Mar 21, 2017 18:35
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Tenebrais posted:Just use a splitter? That turns two lines on one belt into one line on two belts.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:37
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Catberry posted:Metal processing station. Why have that loop system in there at all? Why not just run the one belt and have both rows of furnaces pull off it? 
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Mar 21, 2017 18:45
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How can I get fully satured ore belts? My train offloading stations use two dedicated red belt buses, but as it goes down each column of furnaces, it fucks up cause the furnaces at the farthest end get next to no ore. I suck at balancing so I dunno how best to increase efficiency. It makes me get annoyed seeing furnaces doing nothing cause they aren't being fed enough ore. My furnace columns comprise of 48 furnaces in total (24 on each side of the belt) and I have about 6 columns side by side. I dunno how to do belt splitter magic to ensure each column gets an equal amount of ore.
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Mar 21, 2017 18:53
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48 furnaces on a branch is blue belt territory no matter what tricks you pull. Max furnaces on a red branch is 44-45. If your train offloading saturates 2 red belts, it can never feed more than 90 furnaces.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:03
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zedprime posted:48 furnaces on a branch is blue belt territory no matter what tricks you pull. poo poo, thanks for that. No wonder the later columns get nothing. I'm way about 90 furnaces.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:05
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Loopoo posted:How can I get fully satured ore belts? My train offloading stations use two dedicated red belt buses, but as it goes down each column of furnaces, it fucks up cause the furnaces at the farthest end get next to no ore. I suck at balancing so I dunno how best to increase efficiency. It makes me get annoyed seeing furnaces doing nothing cause they aren't being fed enough ore. First quick question - what kind of furnaces are you using? Have you checked to math to make sure you don't have too many for the full capacity of the belt you're feeding them with? i.e. in vanilla, with yellow belts (13.33 or 40/3 items per second total possible throughput) and stone furnaces (crafting speed of 1) making iron plates (takes 3.5s to craft at speed 1), each furnace consumes about .286 iron ore and outputs the same amount of plate. That means that one fully-saturated iron ore belt will feed 47 furnaces (24 on each side). Double that for red belts (26.66 items/sec) and triple for blue (40 items/sec). Second: have you ever seen the 'count-perfect' (not lane-perfect) belt balancers? It looks like [url="https://wiki.factorio.com/Balancers"]this Factorio Wiki page has a bunch of images to demonstrate how to build them.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:07
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I assumed they were steel/electric furnaces because that's like an upgrade I gun for as soon as I have the opportunity. But I want to see the game where someone hits 288 stone furnaces naturally because I think that person would understand the real spirit of Factorio in a way I never will while I'm dug into spreadsheets. e. For posterity, 2 red belts is still only 180 some stone furnaces but the fractions start adding up to call it 182 stone furnaces. zedprime fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 19:10
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Azuth0667 posted:Superheated steam fence that vaporizes biters I'm looking to be able to burn biter bodies for fuel in my boilers. Just a couple of belts outside my walls, carting biters into the ovens. E: belt biter bodies to burn in boilers
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Mar 21, 2017 19:15
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Loopoo posted:How can I get fully satured ore belts? My train offloading stations use two dedicated red belt buses, but as it goes down each column of furnaces, it fucks up cause the furnaces at the farthest end get next to no ore. I suck at balancing so I dunno how best to increase efficiency. It makes me get annoyed seeing furnaces doing nothing cause they aren't being fed enough ore. Saturating ore belts is best accomplished by offloading ore from trains onto multiple separate belt lines and then merging them with splitters: code:Splitting inputs evenly between multiple furnace lines usually isn't necessary, just solve your input problems and once line 1 is saturated all overflow will go to line 2, etc.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:22
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Pi In The Sky posted:Why have that loop system in there at all? Why not just run the one belt and have both rows of furnaces pull off it? There was a very good reason for that but I can't remember it at the moment. Someone good at Factorio help explain please. Edit: Maybe so it can support an input larger than a full blue belt? Catberry fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 19:37
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Catberry posted:There was a very good reason for that but I can't remember it at the moment. Someone good at Factorio help explain please. because it looks cool
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Mar 21, 2017 19:40
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Catberry posted:That turns two lines on one belt into one line on two belts. It turns into two lines (alternating) for me so I'm sorry your mods arent working right.
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Mar 21, 2017 19:41
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GenericOverusedName posted:It turns into two lines (alternating) for me so I'm sorry your mods arent working right. For me it puts out two conveyors with 100% on the top row and it only uses the bottom row if the top was blocked.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:08
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Buncha shameful engineers ITT https://zippy.gfycat.com/UnkemptCapitalChuckwalla.webm
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Mar 21, 2017 21:26
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seravid posted:Buncha shameful engineers ITT I think strictly speaking this layout is only lane-perfect because the input is lane-perfect? If the input had more on one side than the other, the two belts would still end up with the same number of processing units but the lanes wouldn't be the same.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:31
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Indeed, but I assumed the point was to split a fully saturated belt. If it isn't saturated, then clearly one must increase production.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:35
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seravid posted:Indeed, but I assumed the point was to split a fully saturated belt. If it isn't saturated, then clearly one must increase production. It varies a lot depending on the ore field or if a train comes in.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:38
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There are two goals depending on what the belts meant to do. If its a highway or trunk sort of belt, you should try to jam more onto it than it can take. If its a branch sort of belt, you should be drawing less than its max throughput along its length. This philosophy results in a (beautiful) universal logjam and there's efficiency in trying to turn it into just barely logjamming but lets face it, Factorio is the land of plenty. Fancy splitting is pretty but not needed if you use champagne filling a pyramid of glasses as your inspiration.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:43
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Catberry posted:It varies a lot depending on the ore field or if a train comes in. Balancers in your ore fields and loaders (maybe they're only in mods?) solve these issues. Loads pull from a box and fully saturate a belt.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:54
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totalnewbie posted:Balancers in your ore fields and loaders (maybe they're only in mods?) solve these issues. Loads pull from a box and fully saturate a belt. Loaders were created for the base game but discarded; they still exist in base but can't be researched, unlocked or built. The mods that add them just unlock them, basically, then there's another additional mod that improves some quirks of behavior they have.
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Mar 21, 2017 23:09
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Update on Baby's First Factorio:   I'm 30% of the way to finishing the rocket. I could rejigger the entire factory to serve the production of rocket parts alone because I have plenty of everything else I need, but it's so much work. Also, flame throwers and poison capsules erryday.
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Mar 21, 2017 23:21
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Antti posted:I'm 30% of the way to finishing the rocket. I could rejigger the entire factory to serve the production of rocket parts alone because I have plenty of everything else I need, but it's so much work. Robots and blueprints. Then more robots. Rebuilding is then a simple matter of a few clicks and kick back to watch.
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Mar 21, 2017 23:39
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Catberry posted:For me it puts out two conveyors with 100% on the top row and it only uses the bottom row if the top was blocked. It doesn't seem like this is actually a problem though? Like, if both branches are consuming the entire lane of resources, it literally doesn't matter. Distributing them between lanes in a different fashion won't improve anything. The second lane on each side will get used if you have more than one belt of input, or if one of the outputs back up. So what's the problem?
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Mar 22, 2017 02:32
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Whoopsies
Kinetica fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 07:04
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Ignoranus posted:First quick question - what kind of furnaces are you using? Have you checked to math to make sure you don't have too many for the full capacity of the belt you're feeding them with? This has solved my issue. I was using steel furnaces and was trying to feed too many with just a red belt. That belt balancer wiki link is a godsend, thanks. Nevets posted:Saturating ore belts is best accomplished by offloading ore from trains onto multiple separate belt lines and then merging them with splitters: Took your advice and shortened my furnace line as I was trying to feed way too many furnaces. I figured since the train belts were fully saturated, I was mucking up with my balancing act, but now I realise I was stupid and didn't take into account belts can only move so many items per second.
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Mar 22, 2017 07:32
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zedprime posted:There are two goals depending on what the belts meant to do. If its a highway or trunk sort of belt, you should try to jam more onto it than it can take. If its a branch sort of belt, you should be drawing less than its max throughput along its length. Thank you for putting into words my greatest weakness in my factory designs. I'm really bad at using belts well, with no real understanding of what I need to do to fully saturate a belt and no intuition of each belt's max throughput. That's something I'll focus on when I start a new game.
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Mar 22, 2017 09:38
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Kinetica posted:I hate all of you, I saw lots of posts and hoped the next patch dropped If you read the thread regularly or checked the Wube website you'd know when it's due. You might also want to read this post. In particular rule number 2. On a Factorio note, I had a look at NPUtils last night. It's like Youki Industries without the extra ores. The same no research approach but with pretty graphics and a lot of the same concepts.
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Mar 22, 2017 15:32
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Ratzap posted:If you read the thread regularly or checked the Wube website you'd know when it's due. So, uh, whens it due?
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Mar 22, 2017 16:14
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 Time for a little break. Next time do it quicker than 26 hours 
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Mar 22, 2017 17:37
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26 hours is good time! My first game was over 50. That was back when it was a Missile Defence rather than a rocket launch, but that just meant ending the game came even earlier.
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Mar 23, 2017 12:34
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26 hours is pretty good for your first time! That unmined copper patch is still going to drive me nuts.
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Mar 23, 2017 12:42
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I would really like for a bot that can just mine things in the radius for you. I'd only make like, 50 or so but it'd clear out all the poo poo in my perfect base and that's worth it.
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Mar 23, 2017 12:48
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I have literally plopped down drills as densely packed as possible and loaded to the gills with speed 3 modules before just to clear out ore patches and put them in boxes
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Mar 23, 2017 12:52
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