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Southpaugh posted:You're not changing my mind with all this dodge bashing. "My Sergeant in noble mail, with fearsome and overwhelm" so level 11, in high end gear didn't have a problem with raiders. Good, because he shouldnt. There's a whole part of this game where dodge keeps a character alive long enough to get nimble. Remember new players guys? I've never had an issue not having dodge. Wasting a perk as a stopgap is silly. At lower levels you face easier enemies. You keep your back liners safe behind front liners. On rare occasions you might have an unlucky loss; you can reload and try again. Dodge is completely unnecessary.
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Sep 15, 2020 13:59
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Outrageous.
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Sep 15, 2020 14:10
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I don't think i'll ever bother getting dodge because late game light armour is kind of a trap. I've got a few nimble bro's that use polearms but they still feel way worse than my guys that are basically wearing a tank. If i do get dodge, its on a character that i'm expecting to die because he's got terrible stats and needs a bit of a boost right now. You don't make early game bro's, its counter productive to getting to the rest of the game. If anything just chuck a kite shield on the guy and hope he doesn't get shot in the head. He might get shot in the head either way, but a kite shield is easier to swap out than a perk point. As a side note using dodge might be worth it on a ratcatcher who has ridiculous init, but init time you do something means that in any form of protracted fight the guys gonna fall off, hard.
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Sep 15, 2020 14:32
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Even with maxed out fatigue my dodge guys with relentless have around 80 initiative which still gives a sizable defense boost. Before relentless it was pretty bad but I take it a lot more often now.
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Sep 15, 2020 14:37
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The problem with Dodge for me is that Initiative is basically never worth actually leveling up on its own and also goes down as you gain Fatigue. I'd rather give people stuff like Colossus to make the couple hits less likely to kill them or seriously injure them.
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Sep 15, 2020 15:20
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Southpaugh posted:You're not changing my mind with all this dodge bashing. "My Sergeant in noble mail, with fearsome and overwhelm" so level 11, in high end gear didn't have a problem with raiders. Good, because he shouldnt. There's a whole part of this game where dodge keeps a character alive long enough to get nimble. Remember new players guys? There is a huge difference between what a new player should build to learn the game and not have his farmhands and daytalers killed, and what is a peak performance build, which is what a good few are discussing here. I have a mate who when starting out I told to get colossus, fast adaptation, dodge, steel brow, backstabber and all the things that let attacks land while the lads didn't die. The only ones of those I use is colossus on my guys. This will likely change in a manhunter run, but for a high tier recruit it's a waste. On guys who will never get above 80 MAtk/20 def, while you don't know the intricacies of the mechanics, take all of those, sure. Weebus posted:Even with maxed out fatigue my dodge guys with relentless have around 80 initiative which still gives a sizable defense boost. Before relentless it was pretty bad but I take it a lot more often now. It's very good on duelists and other nimblers that need extra MDef. You can never have enough MDef. Above 40 is when it really gets strong. There was a math for it in some guide on steam, but I don't remember what it was. For RDef it's not needed if you have nimble and enough HP to survive a cat scratch. dogstile posted:As a side note using dodge might be worth it on a ratcatcher who has ridiculous init, but init time you do something means that in any form of protracted fight the guys gonna fall off, hard.
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Sep 15, 2020 15:40
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I still tend to use Backstabber on polearm bros or backline melee people because they're often swinging into a situation where an enemy has multiple bros basing them.
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Sep 15, 2020 15:44
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Night10194 posted:I still tend to use Backstabber on polearm bros or backline melee people because they're often swinging into a situation where an enemy has multiple bros basing them. Oh it's very nice, I just can't fit it into my polearm builds, as I like to get quickhands and Bag&Belts for utility. On my fearsome swordlancers I can't even fit B&B. They tend to get to 100 MAtk anyway since they're not as stat hungry. That means they generally hit what they're swinging for.
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Sep 15, 2020 15:53
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I've got a game going where every single bro has backstabber. It's kinda nice, actually. Probably a little ridiculous to put on every single bro but the more elite enemies taking those couple of extra hits where they otherwise wouldn't is super nice.
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Sep 15, 2020 16:06
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dogstile posted:I've got a game going where every single bro has backstabber. It's kinda nice, actually. Probably a little ridiculous to put on every single bro but the more elite enemies taking those couple of extra hits where they otherwise wouldn't is super nice. What type of start? I have plans cooking for the manhunter run I've been droning on about. With 16 men on the field, who are all sub par, it would be pretty nice to have them bring down the legends and giants, spitting in the eye of adversity and all that. As it's the weapon that determines damage in all but one case, it should be doable, as long as they can hit. Do you use a lot of frontliners for maximum surround bonus or do you take what you can get with the backliners?
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Sep 15, 2020 16:18
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This is one of my long running games, so its just your standard start, all my newer starts are in various states of disarray and i'm sure i'll get one to end game eventually  I use a lot of frontliners. I have two dedicated ranged specialists, ones an archer, one has the handgonne (and max resolve + fearsome). Then yeah, its mostly 2h guys, a couple tanks with taunt and each backliner works as a quasi dedicated 2h bro. I have a bunch of people that i swap out each fight but with how the fights end up going, the guys in the middle of my line tend to cut through the middle and curl into each flank, which is held by a solid tank bro each. Kinda like a 3. I think my main tank has over 40mdef without the shield, so he's a loving monster considering that his shield and armour are all unique too. It basically turns any advantage into a snowball. I've had a few occasions where I wish i had other perks, but not many.
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Sep 15, 2020 17:15
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TheBeardyCleaver posted:It's very good on duelists and other nimblers that need extra MDef. You can never have enough MDef. Above 40 is when it really gets strong. There was a math for it in some guide on steam, but I don't remember what it was. For RDef it's not needed if you have nimble and enough HP to survive a cat scratch. The math for it is pretty basic and applicable to a lot of games once you wrap your head around it, but it takes a mental leap to get there which is this: defence is progressively more powerful as it gets higher. This is a little counterintuitive because normally you would think adding to defence is more important/powerful at low levels, but it's actually the opposite. Going from 30 to 40 MDEF is way stronger than going from 0 to 10. Even going from 40 to 50, by which point each point in MDEF provides a little less return, is still more powerful. The math works out like this: Let's say you're facing an opponent with MAtk of 75, which is pretty standard for high-level enemies. That's the attack level for Brigand Leaders, Chosen, Nomad Leaders, Gladiators, Zweihanders, etc. The way the game does its math, that MAtk of 75 is just a straight 75% chance to hit someone with MDef of 0, and each point of MDef (up to the mid-40s where you start getting diminishing returns) reduces it by 1%. After the mid-40s MDef each point reduces it by less than 1%, as seen on this handy graph: https://battlebrothers.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_Brothers_Wiki?file=DRcomplete.jpg A 75-attack enemy attacking a bro with 0 MDef has a 75% chance to hit. A 75-attack enemy attacking a bro with 10 MDef has a 65% chance to hit. By adding 10 to your MDef, you've gone from expecting 7.5 hits out of every 10 attacks to 6.5 hits. That reduces the damage you can expect to take by 13%. A 75-attack enemy attacking a bro with 30 MDef has a 45% chance to hit. A 75-attack enemy attacking a bro with 40 MDef has a 35% change to hit. By adding 10 to your MDef, you've gone from expecting 4.5 hits out of every 10 attacks to 3.5 hits. That reduces the damage you can expect to take by 22%. The math gets better as you keep getting higher. Going from 40 to 50 MDef you reduce them to somewhere around a 27% chance to hit. Getting to 60 MDef you reduce them to something like a 22% chance to hit. Even with the diminishing returns it's still valuable. And if you're facing enemies with lower MAtk (conscripts, footmen, billmen, orc berzerkers, orc warriors, etc., all have only 70 MAtk, for instance) then the math gets even better. The math also works even better once you think about the intangibles, like: once you get hit, you can take resolve hits that further lower your MDef and make you get hit more often; or you might get injuries that make you more likely to get hit, and so on. Obviously, also the more hits you take the faster you die, which is bad. So delaying that first hit by packing on the MDef, and delaying the second hit after you get unlucky the first time, makes a huge difference in the first few turns of every fight, when most Battle Brothers fights are really won or lost. This is a big reason why early game bros die so quickly. The returns from defence don't really start making a big difference until you get to really high levels. A level 2 or 3 bro who's barely hit 5 MDef still has a 60% chance to get hit by a brigand raider (MAtk 65). But that same bro at level 11 with MDef of 30 or 40 gets hit less than half as often, in addition to killing the enemy way faster. It's one of the positive feedback loops that this game loves. Linear progression in a skill like MDef, because of the way the game works, actually leads to somewhat-exponential returns. But you have to get past that first hump to get on the exponential-growth train.
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Sep 15, 2020 17:32
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This is also a major reason you want to use shields early on. You need the 15 points really badly early.
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Sep 15, 2020 17:38
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Night10194 posted:This is also a major reason you want to use shields early on. You need the 15 points really badly early. Yeah, I don't let any frontliner go without a shield until they're over 20 MDef at the very least, and usually more like 25 or 30 plus survivability perks like Underdog and Battleforged. This means just a whole bunch of shields until my first group of bros start hitting level 7 or 8 or 9, but it also means they actually survive into the lategame. Early 2-handed weapons like woodcutter axes and warbrands are huge traps imo, they will absolutely get low-level bros killed unless you're really super careful with your positioning, and they don't do enough extra damage to justify the risk. And by the time your bros are high-enough level to use 2-handers without dying instantly, you have access to the higher-tier ones that do way more damage.
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Sep 15, 2020 17:40
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But they're fun! 
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Sep 15, 2020 17:51
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vyelkin posted:Math to back up my post dogstile posted:But they're fun! They're fun in the Dwarf Fortress definition of it  I've played enough DF to enjoy a good early axeman though. Edit: Speaking of MDef, this is the guy I send in when I need to break up a formation. He get's poo poo done and lives to brag about it.  Edit2: I think I've finally found someone to be my gunnery sergeant. And he's a gambler. Go figure. 
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Sep 15, 2020 18:16
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Gamblers can be surprisingly excellent sergeants.
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Sep 15, 2020 19:01
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Southpaugh posted:Remember new players guys? They do not, no. Dodge is a good perk, up until you're recruiting dudes specifically for endgame/crisis content and you're actually in a place where you can follow the optimized builds. It's like talking about nothing but pruning and harvesting a fruit tree and forgetting completely about watering and soil.
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Sep 15, 2020 20:19
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This thread specifically seems to operate under a "no bad/sacrificial brothers ever" philosophy that I find puzzling to be honest. I'm not saying go out there and hire trash (outside of maybe days 1-10) but your guy from day 15 that's going to hit 82 MAtk and 18MDef? That's not a lategame bro, that's average and you can make average bros really good through use of perks like fast adaptation, backstab and dodge
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Sep 15, 2020 22:40
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While we're on the topic of Dodge, try building Fencers! They are cool and good and extremely fun to use. I love having one in each team, but unfortunately they require some specific backgrounds/stars.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:43
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Southpaugh posted:Easiest dude to build into a monster with this would be a high matk backliner. So matk, initiative, some fatigue and resolve. Spec for dodge, brawny, axe specialisation, footwork, nimble, headhunter, berserk and fearsome. Any perk slots after that for killing frenzy and colossus. Thieves, messangers servants all build well into this. Obviously the expensive backgrounds will be even better but you don't need the extra upkeep to have a very effective bro. Why would you take brawny and nimble? Aren't they kind of at odds in that the heavier the armor you wear the more useful brawny is but less useful nimble and vice versa?
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Sep 15, 2020 22:50
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rideANDxORdie posted:This thread specifically seems to operate under a "no bad/sacrificial brothers ever" philosophy that I find puzzling to be honest. I'm not saying go out there and hire trash (outside of maybe days 1-10) but your guy from day 15 that's going to hit 82 MAtk and 18MDef? That's not a lategame bro, that's average and you can make average bros really good through use of perks like fast adaptation, backstab and dodge I think those kind of bros are fine, but I don't build them to be sacrificial. Building a bro specifically to be a martyr because he has bad rolls is a big waste of XP if they survive more than a couple of fights. What I try and do with those kinds of bros is build them the way I build tanks, but note that they're disposable if it comes down to it (I put a (x) after their first name so I can always tell at a glance if a bro is someone expendable). Then I build them to be as tanky as possible. That means high HP, high defence, high resolve, and high fatigue, and not worrying about attack too much. And it means not taking perks like fast adaptation, backstab, and dodge, but tank skills like shield mastery, indom, recover, rotation, and so on. An 82 MAtk/18MDef bro would be a perfectly serviceable tank with a good shield and loading up on tank skills, especially if you also make use of misplaced stars to give them very high resolve, fatigue, and/or HP. They'll never end up as good as someone who's tanky but also has the stats and stars to be a really excellent tank, but they'll end up perfectly serviceable and significantly reduce the damage other bros take. They end up being the guys who charge into a group of Chosen or Armoured Unholds and then just use indom until they run out of fatigue. In other fights their job can also be to rotate in for someone who takes one or two unlucky hits and is in danger of dying. But for me there's a big difference between building an okay brother to be an expendable tank and building a bad brother to be an intentional sacrifice. I find that even building bad bros into expendable tanks, they still tend to survive into the endgame and become average even if they never become great. They fulfill an important role in hard fights and if push comes to shove they're someone who can die in a pinch, but I'm not going to intentionally send them to their deaths. Someone bad enough that their actual only role is to die is someone bad enough that you shouldn't hire them.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:53
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El Spamo posted:They do not, no. rideANDxORdie posted:This thread specifically seems to operate under a "no bad/sacrificial brothers ever" philosophy that I find puzzling to be honest. I'm not saying go out there and hire trash (outside of maybe days 1-10) but your guy from day 15 that's going to hit 82 MAtk and 18MDef? That's not a lategame bro, that's average and you can make average bros really good through use of perks like fast adaptation, backstab and dodge This is true. I talk from this point of view because that's what I'm doing now. Building a company of gods of war that can beat anything, and I did that from the company start. Possible in a lonewolf and gladiator start only, most likely. Getting bro's that can perform well enough when you pick the right fights, from what you can find, is a different matter. It's an interesting discussion of the minimum viable product. I may have to start a different type of company just to be able to talk about that, since I've not played one past day 25 for a long while. Just assume that everything i post is from a late/endgame point of view, since I pretty much don't know how to play the other ways. This is what's great about this game though. You can play totally differently from anybody else and still enjoy it just as much or more. Edit: vyelkin posted:I think those kind of bros are fine, but I don't build them to be sacrificial. Building a bro specifically to be a martyr because he has bad rolls is a big waste of XP if they survive more than a couple of fights. What I try and do with those kinds of bros is build them the way I build tanks, but note that they're disposable if it comes down to it (I put a (x) after their first name so I can always tell at a glance if a bro is someone expendable). Then I build them to be as tanky as possible. That means high HP, high defence, high resolve, and high fatigue, and not worrying about attack too much. And it means not taking perks like fast adaptation, backstab, and dodge, but tank skills like shield mastery, indom, recover, rotation, and so on. An 82 MAtk/18MDef bro would be a perfectly serviceable tank with a good shield and loading up on tank skills, especially if you also make use of misplaced stars to give them very high resolve, fatigue, and/or HP. This is what I've done in the past. Had a survivor beggar that just refused to die. I think he had four permanent injures by the time i retired the company. These guys are just walls that move and are a good resource throughout the game I think. Broken Cog posted:While we're on the topic of Dodge, try building Fencers! They are cool and good and extremely fun to use. Fencers are great if you can pull it of. My 125 initiative guy does some pretty cool poo poo when lunging three times and stabbing at the end killing 4 bandits in a single turn (+1 AP per kill trait). He's useless after that, but it's often enough to cause a rout, and damned satisfying. Getting someone up to 170 initiative or something has to be insane burst damage. TheBeardyCleaver fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 22:58
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Ivan Dolvich posted:Why would you take brawny and nimble? Aren't they kind of at odds in that the heavier the armor you wear the more useful brawny is but less useful nimble and vice versa? Sure brawny doesn't affect nimble but it affects your initiative and fatigue and that's good enough for me. They are not synergistic, but both are good. Nimbles effect mostly comes from getting good light armour. If you know you are putting a bro into 155 - 8 stamina armour sure skip brawny because you know his exact stamina requirements. But if you're making good with what's on hand, basic mail shirts, lovely undead heavy armour etc the versatility is useful. You know until you can securely spend 3.5k on a noble mail shirt.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:59
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rideANDxORdie posted:This thread specifically seems to operate under a "no bad/sacrificial brothers ever" philosophy that I find puzzling to be honest. I'm not saying go out there and hire trash (outside of maybe days 1-10) but your guy from day 15 that's going to hit 82 MAtk and 18MDef? That's not a lategame bro, that's average and you can make average bros really good through use of perks like fast adaptation, backstab and dodge I mean, there's probably a place for it, but in terms of dodge, specifically, i've never really seemed pressured to use it when instead I can just chuck heavier armour on the guy with brawny and get roughly the same result and brawny naturally leads into the later builds. There is a place for every perk but init/dodge/relentless bro's requires a very specific set of stats that I find comes around less often than your typical *slaps farmer* "this bad boy can fit so much armour on it." brother. I'm actually a big proponent of using a lovely bro and using perks to bring them up to at least par, but i just do not like dodge.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:47
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The argument for dodge really boils down to what you gave up for it; some bros it’ll be fine overall and others it will feel very wasteful. There’s not a super specific one-size-fits-all answer to every bro/build IMO, although most people will value certain things over others.
Mazz fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 23:53
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True. I will say good dodge brothers are way more about the base initiative roll than the stars and scaling it up. You should not be leveling initiative to get an extra 1.2 Mdef through dodge, you should be leveling it just enough to make sure you can reliably overwhelm the enemies that matter. Pretty much no one's going to slam pick init on every level besides a dedicated fencer
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Sep 15, 2020 23:53
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To be a pedantic theorist, you could probably put dodge on a high init guy that was just to stand in place and not use any skills, and have him be a high MDef nimble tank. This would wear down as he got attacked but he would probably last a while. Is it good use of a bro slot? Probably not. You're better off with enough armour to take enough hits to last the battle than the +15 MDef that wears away. A shield does this anyway and probably negates the init, but this would take away form my pedantic point of minor theoretical value. This being said, my nimble duelist reaches ~65 MDef when not fatigued, so there is some tankiness to it.
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Sep 16, 2020 01:43
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TheBeardyCleaver posted:you could probably put dodge on a high init guy that was just to stand in place and not use any skills, and have him be a high MDef nimble tank. This would wear down as he got attacked but he would probably last a while. Is it good use of a bro slot? Probably not. I've done this before (and have one guy with this build + high MDef on his own - 66 MDef @ lvl 7 when shieldwalling with a metal shield w/o shield expert!) and and it works just fine. I think I need to be clear - this is a build that I use during the mid-game build to the first crisis - which is the time when roster capacity isn't an issue and when "just throwing on some heavy armor" isn't an option because you're stoked to get one or two suits at first. Maybe it's just me but day like 20-80 is basically defined by the grind for reinforced mail or other gear around 3K (handonnes, certain 2h weapons that you may not get through combat for a long while) and each suit of heavy armor at the point in the game is earmarked for a brother that does have late-game potential. It's a way to get perfectly serviceable dudes up to and through the first crisis if you need to, not appropriate for guys you intend on doing legendary locations with. Whatever I'm paying in wages for one extra thief or w/e is easily washed out by the savings on repair costs and gear. I'm not advocating for dodge on everyone or even more than one or two guys that you won't re-load if they biff it during the crisis. I guess me calling them martyr bros is a bit of a misgnomer - I don't hire anyone with the logic of getting them killed asap, it's just the naming convention I use for average bros that won't hack it a 2hander or dedicated tank late game. They can sit near the flank and rotate in when the actual good brother I have gets surrounded or starts to wither. All that being said, I'm beginning to turn on Fast Adaptation being just for meh brothers, I've had pretty good luck sticking on guys with 80-ish MAtk and it really helps sticking the mace stuns or hammer swings I need to open up foes for the real heavy damage. Basically 1h tank build skipping taunt for fast adaptation rideANDxORdie fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 02:26
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rideANDxORdie posted:I've done this before (and have one guy with this build + high MDef on his own - 66 MDef @ lvl 7 when shieldwalling with a metal shield w/o shield expert!) and and it works just fine. I think I need to be clear - this is a build that I use during the mid-game build to the first crisis - which is the time when roster capacity isn't an issue and when "just throwing on some heavy armor" isn't an option because you're stoked to get one or two suits at first. Maybe it's just me but day like 20-80 is basically defined by the grind for reinforced mail or other gear around 3K (handonnes, certain 2h weapons that you may not get through combat for a long while) and each suit of heavy armor at the point in the game is earmarked for a brother that does have late-game potential. It's a way to get perfectly serviceable dudes up to and through the first crisis if you need to, not appropriate for guys you intend on doing legendary locations with. Whatever I'm paying in wages for one extra thief or w/e is easily washed out by the savings on repair costs and gear. I'm not advocating for dodge on everyone or even more than one or two guys that you won't re-load if they biff it during the crisis. I guess me calling them martyr bros is a bit of a misgnomer - I don't hire anyone with the logic of getting them killed asap, it's just the naming convention I use for average bros that won't hack it a 2hander or dedicated tank late game. They can sit near the flank and rotate in when the actual good brother I have gets surrounded or starts to wither. How long does this type of guy last until his fatigue is so high the dodge perk may as well not be there? Shield wall is pretty expensive Fat wise. I'd be interested to try it on an indebted build. Guy who's just there to hold the line until your actually useful killers can off the rest and come fong the guys he's holding off, without needing to wear full plate. I have a nimble tank who does well enough with an ent shield and a mace, but that's mostly because hes stunning people for the Viper to kill. He also has the bear gladiator background, so does not die easily. I found a decent 2H mace, and I'm not too sure this guy isn't tanking better by just applying daze rather than shielding up.
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Sep 16, 2020 02:54
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Okay, you guys should be proud, I am An Old and finally just learned how to upload images to post in the forums just for this. This guy is from my current campaign, day 112 and maybe 25 days into first crisis. I guess I forgot he has short and also I guess he's my melon fucker from this run lol. I've almost never had any "free" bro outside of belly dancer and barbarians be anything better than average: Stats:  With Gear:  Apologies for fuzzy on remembering details, I usually don't get shield expert for this build but I guess I did on this dude? Anyways, you can see I only have two suits of reinforced mail, some footman armor from a bandit leader or merc and one unique named armor on the two-hander. Obviously nimble is up next for this dude but I can tell you even now he never gets injured, hardly gets hit and in fact doesn't get targeted very often unless he's the only choice so I may end up getting taunt after all. I don't know if I'll bother with relentless. Someone upthread recently posted about how crazy effective health gains can be when you boost MDef even just a few percentage points. Dodge is giving this guy 12 MDef/RDef in round one and it's going to scale down to around 3-4 of each by round 4 or 5 and that's with suboptimal gear. Like I said earlier, I'm not even spiking initiative on the dude, just taking one or two +5s as available when other rolls aren't too hot. Obviously the unspoken secret here is that with 32 MDef this early, the guy would be a good tank no matter what for now. This is a goof since his stars and rolls are not ideal for a late-game mega tank rideANDxORdie fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 03:44
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rideANDxORdie posted:Okay, you guys should be proud, I am An Old and finally just learned how to upload images to post in the forums just for this. This guy is from my current campaign, day 112 and maybe 25 days into first crisis. I guess I forgot he has short and also I guess he's my melon fucker from this run lol. I've almost never had any "free" bro outside of belly dancer and barbarians be anything better than average: That is a nice MDef. Not sure how it will go when he actually gets hit by an honor guard cleaver, but that remains to be seen. Aiming for 100 HP? I guess overwhelm could be interesting on this guy, as it does not require you to hit anything. Let us know how it goes, I'll have a pint at the obituary screenshot  Snark aside, it could do very well. Low cost bro that keeps the chaff busy and not dying is worthwhile. I had a tiny spearman way back no-DLC days that did his job just fine. I think he was wearing undead crap the entire time. Also: My Lone Wolf run has a very good Melon Fucker as well. Don't discount those guys, and keep your Cucurbitaceae safe! TheBeardyCleaver fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 03:57
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He's toast long-run for sure, I think he's going to be hampered by low fat and resolve and simply average HP when you really want great HP for a nimble tank. He's here for a good time, not for a long time as his daredevil smirk and penchant for fornicating melons would indicate
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Sep 16, 2020 04:01
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Weirdly enough, after playing for an hour or so I ended the undead crisis with a fight against a plethora of ancient undead and many necrosavants. One necro managed to hit two of those <15% chances to hit ol melon mugger and bring him to half health and double bleeding. He survived but clearly that build lives at the whimsy of the gods. Went back to the southern city to cool off and ring in the end of the zombie war with a few arena fights. Stopped to replenish the ranks a little on the way out and stumbled onto this dude: That's about as close to max rolled on everything important as I've seen. Resolve roll obviously sucks but the one star and the deathwish perk help mitigate. In a company of mostly Fearsome using guys with resolve from 60-75, he may be the one dude who settles at 45 or gets the undead trophy. Once I actually spent those level ups he's at 76 MAtk at level four, about two or three points less than some of his level 10-11 bros in the line. The only nitpick would be more three star stats but that's insanely rare outside of hedge knights and such IMO. Maybe if the one star was on MDef instead? I can make 10 starting MDef work with any build. Right now I'm inclined for 2h aoe like sword or hammer to maximize his high MAtk and use reach advantage to cover what will probably be an average MDef - 20 at level 11 guaranteed, hopefully more or I may cover it with gifted if need be
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Sep 16, 2020 06:41
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If you made him a plate duelist with say a 1h mace you could make do with far less fatigue and put some of the extra rolls towards mdef.
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Sep 16, 2020 07:10
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The Lord Bude posted:If you made him a plate duelist with say a 1h mace you could make do with far less fatigue and put some of the extra rolls towards mdef. Implying you don't put every point possible into mdef for a front liner? What?
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Sep 16, 2020 07:47
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With no stars and a high base roll like that, I would assume the guy will guy get ok MDef but not great MDef. I typically won't take +1 rolls in any stat - there's almost always something else you need that you're going to get a better value on. This guy will probably hit around 20 MDef, so good but nothing special. I'm inclined to either go 2h and get reach advantage to potentially add +10-+15 to that, or go for 1h mace specialist like mentioned. He'd make a decent polearm bro but I'm actually hurting for frontline candidates with a surplus of polearm guys so I'd like to bring him up front
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Sep 16, 2020 08:59
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WarpedLichen posted:Implying you don't put every point possible into mdef for a front liner? What? I play peasants; I don’t usually have the luxury for high mdef. I max out their stamina and matk; take hp to 100 with colossus and resolve to 50 (plus whatever extra I can get from the +5 arena and +resolve necklace; so in practice 60ish resolve) Anything I have left over after that goes into mdef; my highest mdef 2hander has low 30s at level 15 I think; and that’s with paranoid. I do take reach advantage though. I find my survivability is still excellent. Between overwhelm and fearsome I don’t have issues and I kill guys very effectively.
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Sep 16, 2020 10:06
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Luckily with the Arena being what it is, you can boost that to 51 resolve with the Arena and trophies alone. If you can sacrifice a perk for Iron will he'll be at a very comfortable 60 or so without having to spend any stats on it.
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Sep 16, 2020 11:09
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rideANDxORdie posted:With no stars and a high base roll like that, I would assume the guy will guy get ok MDef but not great MDef. I typically won't take +1 rolls in any stat - there's almost always something else you need that you're going to get a better value on. This guy will probably hit around 20 MDef, so good but nothing special. I'm inclined to either go 2h and get reach advantage to potentially add +10-+15 to that, or go for 1h mace specialist like mentioned. He'd make a decent polearm bro but I'm actually hurting for frontline candidates with a surplus of polearm guys so I'd like to bring him up front You can get him to 30 if you take every roll, but 25 should be easily doable. I'd take gifted on a guy like that to get some max rolls in needed no-star categories, but that all depends on if you can fit it into the build. Get him to 30 MDef and he can hold a flank with some overwhelm support against very gnarly enemies.
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Sep 16, 2020 13:30
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