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...! posted:So many people stop after ending A without understanding that it's basically a chapter ending -- especially when they see that route B is mostly a retread of route A -- so they miss the entire second half of the story. They think route B is NG+. I've even seen reviewers stop after ending A and then dock points off the game for being short. what's this game's version of "I couldn't find the right fishing spot so 0/10"
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Jun 5, 2017 21:38
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...! posted:So many people stop after ending A without understanding that it's basically a chapter ending -- especially when they see that route B is mostly a retread of route A -- so they miss the entire second half of the story. They think route B is NG+. I've even seen reviewers stop after ending A and then dock points off the game for being short. Checked global Steam achievements yesterday and only like 43.9% of owners have hit Route A. I think Route B completion was right at 30% and first time playing as A2 was virtually indentical at 29%. PC gamers may be a bit more
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Jun 5, 2017 21:55
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Last time I checked the achievements, there was a 0.1% difference between people who'd reached the end of route B and those who'd started route C, a span of exactly one minute of game time. Guess some people didn't like seeing their waifu get killed. 
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Jun 5, 2017 22:00
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CJacobs posted:Last time I checked the achievements, there was a 0.1% difference between people who'd reached the end of route B and those who'd started route C, a span of exactly one minute of game time. Guess some people didn't like seeing their waifu get killed. I think you mean between players who saw 2B die and players who played as A2. There's a similar gap between beating the third resource recovery unit and seeing Devola and Popola die, which isn't much bigger a time gap. Apparently, games just bleed players every few minutes.
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Jun 5, 2017 22:07
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chiasaur11 posted:I think you mean Right. The end of B until you play as A2 is maybe half an hour of gameplay? Point being that if you actually finish Route B, you get the idea that there's more to do and the game isn't over. I dont know what th cheevos for D and E are (Im not there yet, so I didn't look) but that may be explained by haven't had time to get there yet/lost interest, not lack of awareness.
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Jun 5, 2017 22:14
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those achievement % dropoffs aren't super unusual actually, theres a lot of games with steeper drop-offs. Bayonetta is only a few hours long and is at 14%, ABZU is a fantastic 2 hour game where it's impossible to die or gameover and the "see credits" achievement is at 33%. That's just how people play (or rather stop playing) games. Though the progression of those numbers is pretty interesting to follow during the first week(s), where you can see how long people tend to get stuck on certain chapters. at least for the endings there is the giant message from SQuare after you finish A that basically spells out that it isn't over for players but of course 85% of players never read anything that appears on screen so that only helps so far RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 22:44
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Everyone go wish Taro Yoko a happy birthday.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:06
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...! posted:I never got the weepiness people get at this game. It's at its absolute worst on Reddit. Just seems like another video game story to me. Am I an emotionless robot? Have all the video game stories over the years formed a callus over my callous soul? I didn't literally cry (although my eyes watered up in a couple of spots) but there were a lot of feels. I get pretty invested in my fiction though and whether it is movies, books or video games or whatever I tend to be more emotional than others whether it is getting really excited or sad or anything else. I mean some of that route C stuff is pretty crushing and you might be a sociopath if you don't feel anything who is less human than the machines in this game. Edit: THE AWESOME GHOST posted:https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/does-the-designer-behind-nier-automata-believe-in-god?utm_source=wptwitterus After reading that I think that the next game he makes should be a dating sim. rio fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 23:10
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rio posted:I didn't literally cry (although my eyes watered up in a couple of spots) but there were a lot of feels. I get pretty invested in my fiction though and whether it is movies, books or video games or whatever I tend to be more emotional than others whether it is getting really excited or sad or anything else. I mean some of that route C stuff is pretty crushing and you might be a sociopath if you don't feel anything who is less human than the machines in this game. See, I associate the word "feels" with people who get significantly more emotional over things than most people. The only time I really ever see it get used is on Reddit, and those people are... off. Not saying you are. As I stated earlier, never go to that subreddit and definitely don't look at the drawings. You're welcome.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:27
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...! posted:See, I associate the word "feels" with people who get significantly more emotional over things than most people. The only time I really ever see it get used is on Reddit, and those people are... off. Not saying you are. As I stated earlier, never go to that subreddit and definitely don't look at the drawings. You're welcome. 
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Jun 5, 2017 23:34
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/does-the-designer-behind-nier-automata-believe-in-god?utm_source=wptwitterus Woah woah woah, he was inspired by the story of loving Gradius? What, the MSX one? that's the only one from back in the day with any kind of plot.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:49
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...! posted:I never got the weepiness people get at this game. It's at its absolute worst on Reddit. Just seems like another video game story to me. Am I an emotionless robot? Have all the video game stories over the years formed a callus over my callous soul? eh, it's different for everybody, and that's OK! Personally, knowing virtually nothing about the ending going in, it really got to me and most games don't. But I was also dealing with the very recent death of a family member, so maybe the timing made me more emotional? 
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Jun 6, 2017 00:12
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I mean, in general, if you want to be emotionally moved by something, you have to be willing to let yourself be emotionally vulnerable towards it. Very few pieces of art in history have the ability to move someone not interested in being moved by art. So yeah if you approach a game with the attitude of "I don't get the big deal, some fictional events happened to some fictional characters" you obviously aren't going to have the same experience as someone who actively tries to empathize with fictional characters.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:19
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The final canon ending of Automata reminds me of Undertale's true pacifist ending: "But it refused" If you did not have any emotional reaction to the final route, Yoko Taro failed at his primary goal.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:33
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Am I the only one that thinks this ...! dude sounds like a sociopath or
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Jun 6, 2017 00:34
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Some people just consider "getting emotional" to be a weakness and take pride in not being impacted by things. Which is their loss.
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Jun 6, 2017 00:37
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Snak posted:I mean, in general, if you want to be emotionally moved by something, you have to be willing to let yourself be emotionally vulnerable towards it. There's a gigantic difference between what you're saying and exploding into tears and going through a box of tissues. The latter is pretty extreme and isn't something most people do. Not saying that anyone's weird for doing so; just pointing out that most people won't. Life Is Strange is a pretty loving depressing game, to the point that I can't ever see myself playing it again but it didn't come close to eliciting that kind of reaction from me. I'd like to think that that doesn't make me an emotionless robot.
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Jun 6, 2017 02:27
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Most people are exaggerating for dramatic emphasis. It's like the sadness equivalent of "lol". That said, Yoko Taro's stated goal when designing games is to elicit emotional responses from players. Watch his GDC Presentation ("Making Weird Games for Weird People") that I linked previously in this thread. The dude approaches scriptwriting from a logical perspective, starting from the desired emotional climax and building in reasons for the player to care about the outcome. If you're particularly interested in writing (or at least writing analysis), you can see the pillars that are setup throughout the game without necessarily getting too emotionally invested. Can you see why people might be affected by events in the late-game? If not, what parts of the story needed to be beefed up, cut down, or removed entirely? These types of questions are helpful to consider when approaching any form of media criticism.
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Jun 6, 2017 03:06
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This game made me cry like a bitch Though I was probably as drunk as a Japanese so
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Jun 6, 2017 03:16
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The tragedies of Pascal, Devola & Popola and Emil made me cry. Ending D gave me a similar bittersweet, solemn feeling as the first game but Ending E just left me feel conflicted
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Jun 6, 2017 06:32
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Nina posted:The tragedies of Pascal, Devola & Popola and Emil made me cry. Ending D gave me a similar bittersweet, solemn feeling as the first game but Ending E just left me feel conflicted Those parts didn't work for me. They all relied on information they either gave you through exposition as it was happening, or through short stories, that I didn't find well written or affecting. The short stories in the first Nier worked much better, much thanks to the excellent use of dynamic music. The scenes emitting the biggest emotional response from me were the excellently edited late title screen sequence, and the flashback to 2B's death. It happens right after the reveal that she has been murdering 9S a bunch of times. My interpretation of the flashback is that he only cares about the the fact she smiled at him when she saw he was OK, even though she was about to die, even though she was his executionor. He doesn't care about their past, he cares about what he saw her do right then. And of course, ending E the playable part. Sequences like that are a huge part of why I still bother to play video games. It's wonderful and significantly elevated the game for me. No game has made me cry for real, but ending E and (first Nier) the Devola/Popola/Emil death scene, and Kaine's short story came real close to doing it. Also, the ending of Ico, and killing the defenseless Colossus in SotC. Oh, and the final battle of Crisis Core. That was surprisingly heavy. The ending of the first season of Walking dead. The intro to the Last of Us, and Joel bleeding out, and the scene if you get caught in the escape from the rebel base at the end. God drat that scene. Even the mess FFXV had some strong parts the extremely pretty death scene of Luna, and seeing the crippled Ignis and the after credits sequence was hard to watch  So, uh, what I'm saying is I definitely get invested in game stories as long as they give me a reason to. No crying, but some teary-eyed moments and long-lasting memories. I'd say the music is the most important ingredient. Then editing and framing. Writing is a distant third. Renoistic fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 07:25
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Pascal sold me some cool fists. This worked out well for me.
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Jun 6, 2017 07:28
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Renoistic posted:Those parts didn't work for me. They all relied on information they either gave you through exposition as it was happening, or through short stories, that I didn't find well written or affecting. The short stories in the first Nier worked much better, much thanks to the excellent use of dynamic music. Seems like different priorities when it comes to storytelling. For me characters are everything and make or break how I feel. The cases I mentioned are all characters I empathized with the most, hence what happened to them incited the strongest emotional response.
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Jun 6, 2017 07:40
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Nina posted:Seems like different priorities when it comes to storytelling. For me characters are everything and make or break how I feel. The cases I mentioned are all characters I empathized with the most, hence what happened to them incited the strongest emotional response. Yeah, I edited in a longer response, and basically I tend to prioritize the visuals, editing and musical cues. Sometimes I don't remember the dialogue of a scene but everything else. Sometimes, I even have ignore the dialogue. A certain scene in FFXV has awful dialogue with spotty lip syncing, but the visuals, editing, and wonderful score made it work. I sometimes re-watch it on YT, even. Luna's farewell. It works even better if the game lets me interact with it too! Some games, like Ico, the Last Guardian, a Tale of Two Brothers, and Crisis Core, use game mechanics to elicit responses from the players. It's hard to explain, but sometimes (usually during last parts of the game or even the ending sequence) they have you use the mechanics you've been using throughout the game, but in a different context, that triggers an emotional response based on the rapport you have gained with the characters. The game has conditioned the player throughout the playthrough, in order for the last emotional beat to work. Like : (Ico) Having you jump to Yorda instead of her jumping to you (the Last Guardian) Using the pointing mechanic to tell Trico to run away and leave you (crisis core) The roulette wheel, the central mechanic of the game, which utilizes Zack's memories of his friends to give him special attacks, starts visually breaking down and malfunctioning during the final battle. It starts showing you short flashbacks of his friends as he is dying in a hopeless battle. The last person the roulette stops at before he is shot to death is Aerith, his girlfriend. (two Brothers) using the 'interact with your brother' button in order to pass the final challenge of the game, even though the brother is dead. This one hit hard! tldr: I'm thinking too much about video games today.
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Jun 6, 2017 08:09
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Renoistic posted:Even the mess FFXV had some strong parts the extremely pretty death scene of Luna, and seeing the crippled Ignis and the after credits sequence was hard to watch This actually demonstrates the difference in perspectives really well because while Luna's death was visually very beautiful and well executed it didn't manage to pull my heartstrings that strongly because I wasn't invested in her as a character. Meanwhile the chapter you spend with Ignis crippled was really hard to watch for me and the ending got to me hard because the boys were there for the whole duration of the experience, letting you know them and how they feel for each other on an intimate level and that made me end up caring for them as characters. I'd say that's why I feel so strongly for the first Nier too because you get to experience the characters on an intimate level and have a clear grasp on what the world looks like through their eyes. Brilliant use of game mechanics in a narrative context definitely enhance my emotional responses but I also need an existing investment for it to fully work. Otherwise I'm just likely to find it very cool but impersonal.
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Jun 6, 2017 08:19
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/culture/2017/jun/06/nina-freemans-guide-to-alternative-videogaming "I think almost all the robots are gay, which is awesome." I'm not sure what she's getting at here - I think I'd probably describe both the robots & androids as asexual/not sexual in a way humans can relate to, apart from the relationship/desire between 9S/2B. Is she saying this because of Adam & Eve?
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Jun 6, 2017 09:49
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Uh, did you not remember 6O sobbing from being rejected by another operator?
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Jun 6, 2017 09:53
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A bunch of the quest givers have girlfriends too
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Jun 6, 2017 10:01
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So, I'm on the main mission Loss at the beginning of Route C (I think?), and am I missing something here? I'm supposed to cross a city full of enemies while having control taken from me at seemingly random moments so I can't dodge or jump or run, so all it seems like I can do is hope they ragdoll me in the right direction and pray I didn't completely gently caress myself by not maxing out on healing items before I got here. I've been stuck in that chasm twice and had to restart, and it's been the better part of an hour. I'm rapidly going from "this is one of the best games I've ever played" to "I'm not sure I can actually be bothered to fight this poo poo." What am I supposed to be doing because this can't be it?
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Jun 6, 2017 10:16
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Okay, I was real bad at it, and it still only took me 3 tries. Just go to where you're spose to go. Don't try to fight anything. I never had anything chase me.
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Jun 6, 2017 10:19
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Nina posted:A bunch of the quest givers have girlfriends too Yeah. Back on Earth, it's more varied (with the machines generally trying for a nuclear family, and the Resistance firmly believing any port's good in a storm), but YoRHa, well, 2B and Nines are very much the exception, not the rule. (A2 had a thing with Number 4, too, back when she first went out in the field. Like most happy relationships in Taro Yoko games, it didn't end well.)
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Jun 6, 2017 10:21
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Tarezax posted:Uh, did you not remember 6O sobbing from being rejected by another operator? Nina posted:A bunch of the quest givers have girlfriends too And did you folks miss the part where 9S goes "ha ha gender what a weird funny thing" because to them the concept of 'gay' doesn't exist? Nina Freeman seems to also have missed this.
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Jun 6, 2017 10:28
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Snak posted:Okay, I was real bad at it, and it still only took me 3 tries. Just go to where you're spose to go. Don't try to fight anything. I never had anything chase me. I'm not finding anything has to chase me, because a) they're loving everywhere, I haven't found a way through the city where they're not already waiting, and b) no need to chase something that's travelling half your speed, especially not when you've got a giant butt laser to push them a mile in the wrong direction every time they get anywhere. Maybe I'm just going the wrong way through the city?
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Jun 6, 2017 10:31
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CJacobs posted:And did you folks miss the part where 9S goes "ha ha gender what a weird funny thing" because to them the concept of 'gay' doesn't exist? Nina Freeman seems to also have missed this. Yet they clearly emulate human sexes too so I don't think that holds so much credibility. 9S is more surprised why the machines, who don't even resemble humans, would have gender instead of renouncing the concept as is
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Jun 6, 2017 10:54
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Also,aybe Nina Freeman is speaking from our perspective rather than from the perspective of an android thousands of years in the future? Just because they're post-gender doesn't mean we are, because... Well that's how fiction works.
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Jun 6, 2017 10:59
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Deformed Church posted:I'm supposed to cross a city full of enemies while having control taken from me at seemingly random moments so I can't dodge or jump or run, so all it seems like I can do is hope they ragdoll me in the right direction and pray I didn't completely gently caress myself by not maxing out on healing items before I got here. Here's a video of a fast and pretty enemy-less route. The key is waiting for a limping spell to end before you leave the tube. Even then it can be a little hairy, but If you make it past those first guys you're home free. Head right and switchback up. Maybe a pod program could make it even easier idk. Sax Solo fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 11:50
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...! posted:More like a combination of deadly heal, offensive heal, and auto heal. Seriously, use all three of those with Berserker mode. Maybe add auto item too. I did this about two hours in, never died again, thought it was loving bullshit and I hate the combat system so much for letting me do this. At least in a game like FFX you have to go out of your way to Rikku an absurdly fast heavy hitter by going the wrong way through the sphere grid. In Automata, the game just hands you pieces that, using normally, the way the game intends, you can crack the already tedious combat wide open with.
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Jun 6, 2017 12:50
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You sound like the kind of person who finished bioshock using nothing but the wrench while complaining about it the entire time. Also this is a game where the safest "winning" strategy is to use nothing but pod-fire from distance anyway, and hacking eventually trivializes it another order of magnitude. Who cares, just pick the combat style and difficulty you enjoy playing, and try very hard with fists and the cypress stick if you dislike never dying that much.
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Jun 6, 2017 13:07
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Except the opposite of that because I used the games mechanics as intended and the game fell apart.
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Jun 6, 2017 13:20
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If I'm capable of tolerating jank, is the PC version of this any good or is it just inherently busted? Opinions seem to be all over the place.
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Jun 6, 2017 13:20
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