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quit and reapply. bing bong so simple.
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Jan 27, 2022 05:17
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Josh Lyman posted:At my agency, we have non-GS pay bands. I started near the middle of the 12 and my 13 ladder came with a 6% raise. However, if I apply for and get a 14, I believe I still only get a 6% raise, which puts me at the lowest possible end of the band. Is this the intended effect? Why would anyone go through the trouble of applying against external applicants for a mere 6% promotion? In the private sector, this situation is usually a 10-20% raise and probably 30%+ in my industry. It’s almost like they WANT me to leave. Yeah, not gonna get a lot of sympathy in here around 13/14/15s with so many folks scrabbling with 5/7/9/11 roles. Serious answer though is that it's not about the pay, but about the trajectory. You need to wait two years to move each step past 4, but only 1 year for the first four. Each step is a flat 3% increase. So, if you go from a gs12 step 5 to a gs 13 step 1 you get a both a 6% upgrade and a "fast" 3% each year for 4 years. Additionally, if you're committed to a federal career you might also think about retirement trajectories. Federal retirement pensions use the highest paid 3 years of federal service to determine your pension. A 6% increase isn't much on its own, but a speedy 14 + 3 quick 3% increases can translate to an extra free $1-2000 a month until you die. That's a fixed multiplier that adds up over many years. Now whether that's better or worse than private sector (over your lifetime) is a totally different question.
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Jan 27, 2022 06:27
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Josh Lyman posted:Sorry, I probably wasn't being clear. When I talk about "if I had joined as a 14", I mean that if I were hired as an external candidate in 2022 (my office typically hires fresh PhDs for this), I would make 40-50% more than if I got the position as an existing employee in 2022. But maybe I just don't understand how compensation is supposed to work. If they’re routinely hiring fresh PhDs into the middle of the grade instead of at the bottom without then your agency is definitely doing some weird stuff from my point of view. Elsewhere in Federal hiring an external selection coming in as anything but a step 1 is atypical and requires significant relevant experience over and above the minimum qualifications. I can see why that’s annoying, because it’s not how things work in general, at least not across the half dozen or so agencies with which I’m familiar. e: It has been a while, but a PhD on its own doesn’t qualify anyone for a 14 around here. Kinda curious what’s going on over there.
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Jan 27, 2022 13:24
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Yeah needless to say I am ready to take my Ph.D. on the fast train to GS-14 Step5town over where he works. Ph.D.s qualify you for certain GS-12 positions at best from all the research I have done on the subject. And yes, I just finally made it to 11 after seven years in the government (I am sure if that is the case this is some special field where Ph.D.s can make all the money in the private sector though; maybe chemical engineering?)
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Jan 27, 2022 15:57
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I'm still desperately applying to 5/7/9 positions with little success. Can anyone recommend a good federal resume helper/writer?
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Jan 27, 2022 16:04
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Dr. Quarex posted:Yeah needless to say I am ready to take my Ph.D. on the fast train to GS-14 Step5town over where he works. Ph.D.s qualify you for certain GS-12 positions at best from all the research I have done on the subject. And yes, I just finally made it to 11 after seven years in the government
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Jan 27, 2022 17:51
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Josh Lyman posted:economists at the SEC. This explains everything 
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Jan 27, 2022 18:18
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Bored As gently caress posted:I'm still desperately applying to 5/7/9 positions with little success.
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Jan 27, 2022 18:45
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On that topic, my agency is going through a variety of audits and one of the results is they put out an announcement saying that all of the below must be explicitly included on all resumes or they will be immediately thrown in the trash going forward by the contractors they use to evaluate applications, no exceptions. Citizenship status Confirmation you registered with selective service Per job -grade if Federal -salary (new one on me, and very anti-labor) -number of hours worked per week -duties -accomplishments(seems to be saying you need to explicitly label these last two) Specific recommendation to mirror the "specialized experience" language from the announcement
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Jan 27, 2022 19:13
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That's not great, especially the salary requirement, but if you're not customizing your resume to mirror the specialized experience in such a way that a brain-damaged HR specialist with no direct experience with the actual duties of the position outside of the list in the job opening announcement can easily match your experience to the specialized experience with no significant effort or thought you're pointlessly handicapping your application and are extremely unlikely to end up on a selection list.
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Jan 27, 2022 21:11
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For the most part yes, I'd say that is status quo, and in the past I've always fitted in specific systems, key words and processes in my base resume but mirroring the statement verbatim is not what I would typically do or expect to look great to the hiring manager, they're now recommending you do exactly that from my reading.
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Jan 27, 2022 22:04
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I freely admit at best I had like two or three versions I cycled beween depending on the posting, but it helps that most people here have, like, a specific kind of job they are trying to get, whereas I have probably applied to 100 different job series in my time, and I would rather take six extra months to get a job than rewrite my documents multiple times a day (plus interviews are my issue, not referrals)
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Jan 27, 2022 22:33
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El Mero Mero posted:Serious answer though is that it's not about the pay, but about the trajectory. You need to wait two years to move each step past 4, but only 1 year for the first four. Each step is a flat 3% increase. Don't forget that it bumps to every three years for the step 7 to step 10 bumps. In full, it takes 18 years to go from step 1 to step 10.
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Jan 28, 2022 23:43
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Shadragul posted:Don't forget that it bumps to every three years for the step 7 to step 10 bumps. In full, it takes 18 years to go from step 1 to step 10. QSIs can accelerate that by around 3-5 years. I think they can't be applied but once every 2 years or so - I can't remember if you carry over time within step for a QSI though.
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Jan 29, 2022 03:16
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I'm applying for a job in an adjacent field to my own at OMB. The job posting is worded in a way that makes me feel a dry resume might not be best. For example, this is the first sentence: "The ideal candidate leads with an entrepreneurial spirt and emotional intelligence." Within my resume, which I'm using the usajobs.gov resume builder to construct, is it okay to be more verbose about my contributions and skills in a slightly more "cover letter" way, in order to communicate things like my "spirit" and emotional intelligence? I feel like a gov't resume should be dry and quant. based, yet this posting is loving me up. Also, if they're asking for a year's experience at the GS-12 level to be hired at GS-13, that's basically mid-career right?
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Feb 1, 2022 12:50
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Leon Sumbitches posted:I'm applying for a job in an adjacent field to my own at OMB. The job posting is worded in a way that makes me feel a dry resume might not be best. For example, this is the first sentence: "The ideal candidate leads with an entrepreneurial spirt and emotional intelligence." Yeah write narrative format. Weave the STAR examples and quant results in the narrative. 13 is mid grade but remember in DC and a higher HQ org like OMB has massive grade inflation. I wouldn’t be surprised if most people there are 14s and 15s.
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Feb 1, 2022 13:04
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Howard Phillips posted:Yeah write narrative format. Weave the STAR examples and quant results in the narrative. 13 is mid grade but remember in DC and a higher HQ org like OMB has massive grade inflation. I wouldn’t be surprised if most people there are 14s and 15s. Super helpful, thank you. Interesting to know about grade inflation. There are five positions available with a range from GS 13-15, depending on experience.
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Feb 1, 2022 13:35
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Leon Sumbitches posted:Super helpful, thank you. Interesting to know about grade inflation. There are five positions available with a range from GS 13-15, depending on experience. Senior DOD orgs I’ve interacted with have like 10 SES for 200 employees. Pretty much everyone is non-supervisory GS-15 full performance, meaning they can be promoted automatically up to 15 administratively. Lots of people start at 12 tho. PMF’s start at 11 etc but within few years can be 14/15.
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Feb 1, 2022 13:42
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Got a federal resume question if anyone could advise! I've been in a municipal gov't system for 7 years and received 2 promotions during that time. My responsibilities have largely remained unchanged, I just have less supervision and more of it now. (ie I've been a lead project manager for 7 years). There are two problems. One is that projects have a 3 year life-cycle, plus a year+ delay due to COVID delays. So work I started in 2018 in my previous title is still active for me in my current title. The second problem is I only got my last promotion in October 2021, due to COVID-related hiring/promotion freezes. If I somehow break my work down by title, the highest level will have the least compelling narrative. It's also questionable if the previous title would qualify me for GS12 (although I think it should!) and I haven't been in the new title for 52 weeks. My intuition is to speak to my overall work at the agency in my most recent role, with a note summarizing what I've just said (well not the part about GS12). E: How I decided to handle it was to put a note at the top of my most recent title saying the 3+ year project life cycle means no clear delineation between titles. I was most verbose on my first title, then in the second/third had briefer summaries with specific awards+accomplishments and a note to refer to the other title for a fuller accounting of my responsibilities. Strangely, there was no option to upload a cover letter, so I downloaded the USAJOBS.gov generated resume and added my letter on the front page. Hopefully they don't ding me. All in, the resume was 9 pages, and that's just the last decade of experience/volunteering/education. What a massive exercise. Leon Sumbitches fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Feb 2, 2022 |
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Feb 1, 2022 22:05
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Leon Sumbitches posted:Got a federal resume question if anyone could advise! It's okay to break it down by title or specific differing lines of responsibility but unless they were significantly different, I wouldn't do more than 2 or 3 breakouts for one employer. Bottom line, don't overthink this. It's okay to stretch it a little bit to match the responsibilities of the grade you are targeting because in reality supervisory work is complex and cross functional. If the most recent promotion is from Oct '21, you can say something like "I was already acting as a supervisor and delivering results as shown by x, y, and z initiatives led by me that created a, b, and c impact for k mission. Due to my strong performance I was formally promoted in recognition of my capability... etc..." Bottom line, you want the resume to make sense when people are reading it relatively quickly. If you go to interview panel people will review your resume more in depth. You just want them to read your experience in chronological order and go "yep, this guy is moving up and doing things at the GS-13 level that we want for this position." Good luck.
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Feb 2, 2022 14:23
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Endless Mike posted:So leave. If all you're concerned about is money, leave. Yeah, you aren't allowed to work for the government and criticize the pay or want more money.
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Feb 5, 2022 18:58
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heated game moment posted:Yeah, you aren't allowed to work for the government and criticize the pay or want more money.
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Feb 7, 2022 04:22
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Endless Mike posted:All homeboy does is complain about how much he's paid. He should leave, since apparently the number on his check is the only thing that matters to him. Never mind that he has time to complain on the internet about the number on his check and how much money he's lost investing in private prisons. I'm sure he'd be much happier with number going up. Number being on his paycheck and also hours worked. Ill be the first to admit that our benefits are great and Ill also be the first to admit that our pay is far lower than private sector. This is some real crab buckety poo poo going down so maybe chill my guy. Like I think of leaving constantly because of the pay disparity, and to not even acknowledge that is uh...weird...I guess.
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Feb 7, 2022 04:32
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PneumonicBook posted:Ill be the first to admit that our benefits are great and Ill also be the first to admit that our pay is far lower than private sector. This is some real crab buckety poo poo going down so maybe chill my guy. Like I think of leaving constantly because of the pay disparity, and to not even acknowledge that is uh...weird...I guess. Homeboy's an economist making *minimum* GS-12 in DC, and higher than that from what I recall. If he was one of those forest firefighters doing a GS-5 for 6 months out of the year there's a legitimate complaint, but he's making good money - certainly enough that he can complain about making bad, immoral investments. He could make more elsewhere, sure! And if the pros of working elsewhere (more money) outweighs the pros of working for the government (not having to work 80 hour weeks), he should go. So should you! Just do it! No one is stopping you and you can always come back! I'll add that pay being "far lower" in the government is very strongly dependent on job series and location and such. I could find very few jobs in my field in DC if I wanted to leave (and the ones I could find would basically be lobbyists), and the jobs I could find elsewhere would be for much less money in WAY less desirable places to live, so maybe don't make absolutes like "we make less money!"
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Feb 7, 2022 04:57
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Endless Mike posted:Nah, it's not crabs in a bucket to tell someone to go do better elsewhere if they can. If you think you can, and nothing's keeping you, you should. It's pushing someone along, not holding them back. So sure but you have to understand the way that comment looked right? I mean maybe not and you think that it was pushing someone along instead of being aggro, I dunno, I don't know you, but that comment seemed like you were saying "Hey go gently caress yourself if government pay isnt enough!" I don't think this is a hot take. I'll agree that 'far lower' is super dependent on what you're doing. Like when I hear about PHDs starting at 9s I lose my mind because in the DoD we hire people constantly without any college experience as 12s. poo poo's hosed.
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Feb 7, 2022 05:11
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oh, on the topic of jobs - I posted about doing this in December, but the relevant guy was out of the office for a while. FEMA’s Schedule A hiring solution is to put your resume in a first look pile for permanent full time positions for managers to look at. No one has plucked me out of the pile yet, but maybe one day… Last week, my temporary supervisor on my virtual excursion to Kentucky told me I should try to become a “direct charge” Cadre of On-Call Response/Recovery employee rather than a reservist, to use them as a reference, and to email my HQ manager about it. My HQ reservist manager said to look at USAjobs for CORE openings to come up - and then to email our cadre’s recruiting email my resume and a cover letter. Of course, when I looked last week there was nothing there. So I’m creating another usajobs email search! And thinking of what FEMA strategic plan language I can put in a cover letter. e: FEMA’s Stafford Act employees are on a bizarro 5 banded IM scale - I’m IM 1 but between a GS6 step 2 and 3 for my metro area, which is okay since it’s not like my mortgage is gonna go up I say it’s bizarro because IM 1 goes from $14.89 to $42.54 hourly for 2022 while IM 2 is $22.57 to $42.54 wolfs fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Feb 7, 2022 |
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Feb 7, 2022 05:30
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I will admit that I made a bunch of posts complaining about salary when I was at my old agency, but in the 1.5 years at my current one, I've made 45 posts in this thread and maybe 3 of them could be construed as complaining about salary. My office is currently hiring for the position I'd like to eventually have, so it's top of mind. I'm definitely not slumming it, but by that same logic anyone making above median income shouldn't complain either. On the other hand, this isn't an e/n thread. There's probably some value in periodically talking about compensation since the overwhelming majority of people feel underpaid and it can be difficult to ascertain how much you should be making without applying for a bunch of new jobs and making it to the offer stage.
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Feb 7, 2022 05:43
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I write policy and instructions guiding people how best to touch eggs. I would like to be paid $750,000 per year for this task please.
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Feb 7, 2022 05:49
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ixo posted:I write policy and instructions guiding people how best to touch eggs. I would like to be paid $750,000 per year for this task please. 
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Feb 7, 2022 05:56
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PneumonicBook posted:I'll agree that 'far lower' is super dependent on what you're doing. Like when I hear about PHDs starting at 9s I lose my mind because in the DoD we hire people constantly without any college experience as 12s. poo poo's hosed. Speaking of money making no sense, I agree with Wolfs that FEMA's pay structure makes no sense. As far as I can tell they randomly assign a starting salary within those pay bands, as me literally saying "I used to make more than this with USCIS" got them to raise my salary. Not to actually match my previous salary, but just to raise it. Like... did they not notice my previous salary before? I guess? But who in the world designed this system?
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Feb 7, 2022 06:00
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Well they do everything like an emergency, right? So it was bound to be a bit slap-dash.
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Feb 7, 2022 14:24
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PneumonicBook posted:So sure but you have to understand the way that comment looked right? What about Master's? I've been applying to 7 and 9s for years and not getting poo poo.
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Feb 7, 2022 15:03
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Bored As gently caress posted:What about Master's? I've been applying to 7 and 9s for years and not getting poo poo.
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Feb 7, 2022 15:45
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Bored As gently caress posted:What about Master's? I've been applying to 7 and 9s for years and not getting poo poo. I finally got into the government as an 11/12/13 (started at 11 step 1) with a masters and ten years of relevant experience in my field. I would be very surprised if my agency hired a fresh master's degree holder without work experience. I had to go out in private sector and get experience before I ever got referred to interview. At least in my corner of fedgov, it seems like the experience is much more relevant than an advanced degree.
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Feb 7, 2022 15:59
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Bored As gently caress posted:What about Master's? I've been applying to 7 and 9s for years and not getting poo poo. Anything is possible, depends on how you frame your experience and education. Also, direct hiring authorities and excepted service are far more lenient in determining your entry paygrade. Taking a contractor gig to get a foot in the door to build experience is very viable. We hired a new undergrad as a contractor. Helped him get a promotion from $55k to $80k in one year (analyst to associate) because he was good. Then a year later (so in two years) he was hired as a GS-12/13 equivalent. When he applied for the gov position his direct experience in our office made him stand out compared to other applicants (even govies applying from sister orgs). Also, look at programs like NADP. Which are great ways to land entry gigs that quickly transition to GS-12/13 in a few years. Most importantly you get valuable experience. https://www.secnav.navy.mil/rda/workforce/Documents/ADPFolder.pdf
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Feb 7, 2022 16:11
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It's seemingly impossible to get a federal Intelligence Research Specialist or Intel Analyst position without 1) having a clearance, and 2) having experience. The private sector is the same way. No one wants to spend thousands on a background check when they can just hire someone with years of experience and an active clearance. It's beyond frustrating. I'll have to look into that NADP. That seems interesting.
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Feb 7, 2022 17:33
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Sort of unrelated, but I almost took a job as a security guard (private, contractor) a while back because they’d sponsor for the next level of clearance. Not a job I wanted but when I was looking it seemed everything needed top secret. IRS got me public trust many years ago, but it was contracting that got me my secret (expedited too!). Entry level in other orgs might be where you’d have to start, intel seems to be picky and fully able to afford to be.
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Feb 7, 2022 17:39
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Bored As gently caress posted:It's seemingly impossible to get a federal Intelligence Research Specialist or Intel Analyst position without 1) having a clearance, and 2) having experience. I am not an analyst but in ISR related things and they sponsored my clearance and 8570 certification. Just find someone desperate enough. Woof Blitzer fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Feb 7, 2022 |
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Feb 7, 2022 23:52
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Bored As gently caress posted:It's seemingly impossible to get a federal Intelligence Research Specialist or Intel Analyst position without 1) having a clearance, and 2) having experience. You can leverage non-direct experience to pivot into Intel. Say you get accepted to NADP and end up working as a contract specialist in a Navy acquisition shop buying or sustaining warships. You can claim that as "experience in Navy capability acquisitions with direct impact to national maritime security." Another option is to go into OSINT positions that don't require clearance in private sector. Some of the best intelligence comes from OSINT. I know it's hard, not trying to be like "bro just keep trying," but there are creative ways to pivot your non-direct experience.
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Feb 8, 2022 00:14
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I know a few peeps who have done contract security work to get the initial clearance, not sure if that is applicable where you live or not. But in the DFW area there is a ton of openings all the time. But there is also a lot of huge defense contractors here.
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Feb 8, 2022 00:15
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