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Ham Sandwiches posted:"Ah yes the war is over, time to spend 20 minutes moving pops around tiles" See, my mindset is that the war is merely an accessory to the game I really want to play. War is only a means to an end to get more resources so I can enrich my empire, empire management isn't something I do "between wars". It's what I want to be doing most of the time. Doesn't seem meaningless to me. I mean it's not like the combat is interesting once you have it figured out, the only thing remotely meaningful is what the RNG tech tree decides to give you to work with at any given point in time. And war mechanics range between pathetic whack-a-moles (every endgame "crisis" I've ever encountered has ended with the Scourge/Unbidden fleet getting utterly obliterated within seconds of my fleet engaging) tedious (an actual war of conquest against an empire large enough to challenge you) to utterly broken (the War in Heaven). Tile management could certainly be made more interesting but it shouldn't be removed entirely. Unless the intent is this for to just be a wargame. In which case it might as well be called a "1X" game. Maybe 2X if you count auto-surveying and seeing the same anomalies and events game after game. To abstract the economic aspect of the game any further than it already has been abstracted would be to significantly diminish the game as a whole. Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 02:55 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 02:51
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Magil Zeal posted:I prefer the 4X elements to Grand Strategy elements anyway, all of Paradox's other games focus so much on the grand strategy and basically ignore the regional level, so at least let me have this in Stellaris. I want to have pops working terrain. See the thing is. You have that game, I personally have like a dozen versions of that game. Infact a new version of that game just came out. (Moo:Cts) And it's probably still worse than moo1 and Galciv2, but I digress. So let me at least let me have this in Stellaris.
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May 8, 2017 03:14
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Yeah if you want a more traditional space 4x with pops and tiles and war and all those goodies you have, just off the top of my head and looking at my Steam library: -GalCiv II -GalCiv III -Stardrive -Stardrive II -Stars in Shadow -MoO II -NuMoO -Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion -Endless Space -Endless Space II -Star Ruler II If you want a Paradox style grand strategy, empire building, Victoria/EU in Space type game you have: -Distant Worlds Stellaris doesn't need to become yet another Civ/MoO style 4x. It's a Paradox game, it should be more in line with just about everything else Paradox has ever made. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 04:48 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 04:45
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Where's my remake of Emperor of the Fading Suns, Night Dive Studios?! 
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May 8, 2017 04:56
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Xarn posted:To me the real problem with the pop system is that managing it is a meaningless busywork that the computer could do optimally in a millisecond. If I could just tell the game to optimize this planet's pop distribution for mineral mining and then it would be up to me to figure out how to get the big strong races there, lot of the annoyance would be gone. Apparently it's not that easy, because I've heard the sector AI is awful at dealing with pops. It's just useless fuckery - much like how you can't queue multiple upgrades for a tile at once, so you have to build a bunch of Power Plant I on a new colony, and then come back some in-game months later to queue upgrades to Power Plant II, and then come back again to queue upgrades to Power Plant III, and so on.
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May 8, 2017 05:15
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Main Paineframe posted:Apparently it's not that easy, because I've heard the sector AI is awful at dealing with pops. If you hold shift when you press the upgrade button it will queue all upgrades that are possible for that building.
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May 8, 2017 05:18
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I don't really find the empire management to be at odds with the combat mechanics and I think both would benefit from some filling out.
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May 8, 2017 05:26
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Crazycryodude posted:Stellaris doesn't need to become yet another Civ/MoO style 4x. It's a Paradox game, it should be more in line with just about everything else Paradox has ever made. Likewise, actiblizz should only ever make call of duty games, and EA battlefield games.
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May 8, 2017 05:55
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TGLT posted:I haven't played a Purifier very much, but it seems like early on the best purging choice is processing. Processing a few planets is a pretty easy way to get +100 food a month very early on, which is nice for filling up planets with new colonists. Otherwise forced purging mostly feels like the drawback for all the other bonuses. I wished that once you Synthetically Evolved, Processing produced Energy instead of Food. Or even Minerals! I mean, in my Fanatic Purifier runs I always end up as a race of perfect immortal machines anyways before going Skynet/Cylon on the galaxy, and processing meatbags for energy is the whole conceit of The Matrix!
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May 8, 2017 07:23
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A neat little bug when playing purifier. Some 'weird' stuff that usually happens to you in that Sleeping Worm scenario, just...doesn't. Also it'd be rad if the end game scenario stuff wasn't 100% Combat. Like maybe if there was a political solution to the Unbidden. Like going on adventures talking to the FE into either waking up to fight them or donating tech or resources temporary. Or immediately contacting the 2nd race that's hunting them instead of that second one just coming. It's just really lame that the best and only way to deal with literally anything late game is to mass a fuckload of sniper battleships.
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May 8, 2017 09:43
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I have had one game just straight up ended by the Unbidden. They managed to catch my fleet from behind and I couldn't get away without losing too many ships, which meant it was time to finish. I've had as many games where I've broken up the crisis although I'd say the Swarm is the easiest. I'm yet to get the AI rebellion and I've got 260 hours logged so far.
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May 8, 2017 09:46
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Pharnakes posted:But why is this system now actively generating influence for them? You might be able to avoid long way rounding it by building an outpost in Ostiuq (multiple nearby outposts increase range/pressure), and if that doesn't quite work it might still give you Vinjim which you can build another outpost in which then might work. Or you could spend that Tradition on the +25% border range one. They all could work.
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May 8, 2017 10:00
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Taear posted:I have had one game just straight up ended by the Unbidden. They managed to catch my fleet from behind and I couldn't get away without losing too many ships, which meant it was time to finish. It really annoyed me that the one game I finally got the disappearing synths event and the AI Accord, and not a loving year later the Unbidden pop. :angry: Right on top of the Dragon Hoard system I filled with Habitats, no less!
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May 8, 2017 12:35
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Speaking of Habitats: is there any reason not to spam them? Does filling them up with unity or research buildings actually net a positive result? I'm terrible at math and there's so many moving parts that I really have no idea. I feel like it should be good up until a point.
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May 8, 2017 16:03
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Wilekat posted:Speaking of Habitats: is there any reason not to spam them? Does filling them up with unity or research buildings actually net a positive result? I'm terrible at math and there's so many moving parts that I really have no idea. I feel like it should be good up until a point. They give absolutely absurd amount of energy, but otherwise they are worse than planets. Reason not to spam them... they are quite influence expensive I guess?
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May 8, 2017 16:04
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Cling-Wrap Condom posted:you are right, the endgame crises are extremely bad and the worst one (the unbidden) is also the most likely one to get. On a small galaxy if you don't move extremely fast to expand to own about 50% of the galaxy minimum you're hosed when they arrive. It loving sucks, and FE's/other empires STILL ignore the endgame crises fleets too so it's literally down to you to save the galaxy. In my current game, one of the Fallen Empires had woken up and gone on the warpath for a while when the Unbidden triggered. The FE ended up taking care of the Unbidden crisis pretty much by itself, and they ended without fanfare. 
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May 8, 2017 16:14
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Habitats are basically an infinite energy button, and if you focus them on research they can be pretty decent at that, too. They won't be better than a size 20+ planet covered in labs, but if you've transitioned your planets mostly to mines and such, habitats can round out your research. So, yeah, spam them as much as you can (provided you've got the influence).
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May 8, 2017 16:16
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Wilekat posted:Speaking of Habitats: is there any reason not to spam them? Does filling them up with unity or research buildings actually net a positive result? I'm terrible at math and there's so many moving parts that I really have no idea. I feel like it should be good up until a point. I think those still count as planets for your research and unity costs. There's no reason not to spam planets though.
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May 8, 2017 16:22
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I've spent the whole game wanting orbital habitats and I feel like they were implemented in a really lackluster way just to personally spite me. They just don't feel like they fit the game. I've said it before but the game was specifically designed around planets being more rare than in other 4x games, and the whole pop and grid micro management system was designed with that in mind. Sectors are there to help manage once you have dozens of worlds but everyone complains about them and the AI is still poo poo at development, both in sectors and for AI empires. I think things would work out so much better if pops and development were on a system scale rather than planet. You'd still have planets and orbitals and all that good stuff but they'd pool together into one management interface. Building orbitals would just increase the size of that pool rather than be yet another item to separately manage. Oddly enough one of the few good things the startrek moo2 clone "birth of the federation" did was handle this well.
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May 8, 2017 16:26
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Wilekat posted:Speaking of Habitats: is there any reason not to spam them? Does filling them up with unity or research buildings actually net a positive result? I'm terrible at math and there's so many moving parts that I really have no idea. I feel like it should be good up until a point. While checking out the numbers I just found out that that you can build a lot of the Empire Unique's that require the Empire Capital Complex stuff on them instead of on your homeworld, which is neat. Splicer fucked around with this message at 17:04 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 16:32
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Habitats are one of the best sources for research out there. And they are fantastic for energy. By the time you get them you'll have filled out most of the unity trees too if you're going tall (or at the very least, the ones you want) so the increase in unity cost from extra colonies will be less of a concern. They can almost always increase your research rate significantly. Pretty much what you can do when you get them is build a half dozen for research/energy and then switch all your planets to strip mining and be able to compete with the production of an empire twice your size but without habitats.
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May 8, 2017 16:47
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Which to me always seem really weird because you'd think a huge orbital would be better at mining vs anything else. Have asteroid mining and space resources produce our ridiculous cave-man like idea of mining planets and turn planets into paradises of art and science. The game is also weird in that energy is a thing related to power plants but also a sort of abstracted capitalist/economic talent thing as well.
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May 8, 2017 17:03
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so i have this faction thats mad i have slaves, except i dont actually have any. what they are mad about is 3 pops of primitives in another empires territory on the other side of the map. what gives
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May 8, 2017 17:07
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Baronjutter posted:I've spent the whole game wanting orbital habitats and I feel like they were implemented in a really lackluster way just to personally spite me. They just don't feel like they fit the game. I've said it before but the game was specifically designed around planets being more rare than in other 4x games, and the whole pop and grid micro management system was designed with that in mind. Sectors are there to help manage once you have dozens of worlds but everyone complains about them and the AI is still poo poo at development, both in sectors and for AI empires. Sectors work just fine if you set the right priorities for them.
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May 8, 2017 17:11
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Baronjutter posted:Which to me always seem really weird because you'd think a huge orbital would be better at mining vs anything else. Have asteroid mining and space resources produce our ridiculous cave-man like idea of mining planets and turn planets into paradises of art and science. I actually enjoyed BE but that was really annoying.
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May 8, 2017 17:11
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Baronjutter posted:Which to me always seem really weird because you'd think a huge orbital would be better at mining vs anything else. Have asteroid mining and space resources produce our ridiculous cave-man like idea of mining planets and turn planets into paradises of art and science. there should be a society tech where you remember that commodity-backed currencies are a terrible idea imo
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May 8, 2017 17:12
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From the "SMAC did it, therefore" school of space 4X design. Not always the worst idea but clearly also not always the best.
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May 8, 2017 17:16
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If money isn't backed by a power plant it's worthless and vulnerable to inflation!
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May 8, 2017 17:17
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Stellaris money is literally bitcoins
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May 8, 2017 17:39
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Splicer posted:Stellaris money is literally bitcoins I'd download this mod
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May 8, 2017 17:45
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Splicer posted:Stellaris money is literally bitcoins Wouldn't bitcoins drain your energy
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May 8, 2017 17:51
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Oh my god the powerplants are just running massive spacecoin miners aren't they
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May 8, 2017 17:54
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Crazycryodude posted:Oh my god the powerplants are just running massive spacecoin miners aren't they Power runs bitcoin mining rigs, actual mines are accumulating purestrain gold, farms are producing Space Cheetos. The Holy Trinity.
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May 8, 2017 17:59
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Change that last one to soylent and I'm in
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May 8, 2017 17:59
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The darkest timeline of cosmetic mods. I appreciate that the Steam Workshop for this game provides almost unprecedented potential for self-trolling. There's nothing at all stopping me from adding Pony Mod Fanatical Purifiers to the NPC pool, and that's terrifying.
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May 8, 2017 18:13
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Crazycryodude posted:Oh my god the powerplants are just running massive spacecoin miners aren't they I don't want to stop the crazy train of bitcoin-jokes, but the idea behind this basically the goold old SF-trope of an energy-based post-scarcity economy. Because stuff like precious metals is available in godawfully gigantic amounts in space, so it immediately stops being a good idea to base your economy on metals or other physical stuff as soon your space industry starts running.
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May 8, 2017 18:20
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Libluini posted:I don't want to stop the crazy train of bitcoin-jokes, but the idea behind this basically the goold old SF-trope of an energy-based post-scarcity economy. Because stuff like precious metals is available in godawfully gigantic amounts in space, so it immediately stops being a good idea to base your economy on metals or other physical stuff as soon your space industry starts running. This is also why terrestrial mining operations don't make a whole lot of sense. A single asteroid can have more platinum than we've ever mined in the history of the Earth. Now terrestrial MANUFACTURING sure that does make sense as a source of planetary industry.
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May 8, 2017 18:22
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Libluini posted:I don't want to stop the crazy train of bitcoin-jokes, but the idea behind this basically the goold old SF-trope of an energy-based post-scarcity economy. Because stuff like precious metals is available in godawfully gigantic amounts in space, so it immediately stops being a good idea to base your economy on metals or other physical stuff as soon your space industry starts running. we don't use precious metals as currency either thougb
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May 8, 2017 18:23
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Libluini posted:I don't want to stop the crazy train of bitcoin-jokes, but the idea behind this basically the goold old SF-trope of an energy-based post-scarcity economy. Because stuff like precious metals is available in godawfully gigantic amounts in space, so it immediately stops being a good idea to base your economy on metals or other physical stuff as soon your space industry starts running. It makes sense in that context to use, like, kilowatt-hour vouchers as a currency when you think about it, too. Anything you might want to have required some expenditure of energy to create. Food, heat, objects. The only place it gets dicey is where you're dealing with matters of creative labor, but that's true for current currency models, too, so it doesn't matter.
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May 8, 2017 18:23
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Libluini posted:I don't want to stop the crazy train of bitcoin-jokes, but the idea behind this basically the goold old SF-trope of an energy-based post-scarcity economy. Because stuff like precious metals is available in godawfully gigantic amounts in space, so it immediately stops being a good idea to base your economy on metals or other physical stuff as soon your space industry starts running.
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May 8, 2017 18:44
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