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Big Mom losing here would make the Emperors and Admirals look bad. If an injured and hungry Luffy and a handful of mostly weak allies can take out Big Mom, even though Katakuri and Smoothie are present, then how was Big Mom fighting evenly for territory against the other Emperors? You can't just say "she has a better crew"; that just makes people like Marco and Beckman look weak.
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Jan 15, 2017 18:03
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Luffy won't be hungry and injured when he finds Sanji and gets revitalized by eating meat. This is a special set of circumstances because her crew will need to deal with the Germa 66 while Luffy and co. are also causing havoc from within. Sanji and Jinbei could definitely square off with the commanders while Luffy fights Big Mom. He won't beat her through underhanded means, but you have to expect him to be close to as powerful as anyone by now.
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Jan 15, 2017 19:38
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Luffy's totally eating the lunchbox Sanji made for Pudding Edit: A Gear Four Knuckle Sandwich
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Jan 15, 2017 19:48
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Silver2195 posted:Big Mom losing here would make the Emperors and Admirals look bad. If an injured and hungry Luffy and a handful of mostly weak allies can take out Big Mom, even though Katakuri and Smoothie are present, then how was Big Mom fighting evenly for territory against the other Emperors? You can't just say "she has a better crew"; that just makes people like Marco and Beckman look weak. Big Mom's whole thing is obtaining power through marriage of her kids.
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Jan 15, 2017 19:52
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Shoren posted:He won't beat her through underhanded means, but you have to expect him to be close to as powerful as anyone by now. This. We aren't dealing with Bleach here, where characters literally grow in power massively over the course of a couple of hours. The Straw Hats learned new skills as they went along, but their actual strength stayed relatively similar throughout, just with more powerful enemies that required pushing their limits or breaking out new techniques, like the fact Luffy was sitting on Gear Four for two hundred chapters. Hell, early people like Buggy, Hachi and Bon Clay held their own when they turned up later on with no appreciable growth, save for Buggy's upgraded Buggy Ball. Again, I can totally see them escaping so there can be a massive multi-Emperor scrap, but Luffy should absolutely have the strength to take on an Emperor, even if he gets clowned and has to try a different tactic or push himself further the next time, as I suspect will happen with Kaidou. Imagine Gear Four Luffy or Zoro cutting mountains if they'd been at Marineford - do they really seem that outclassed now?
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Jan 15, 2017 19:54
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Again, I can totally see them escaping so there can be a massive multi-Emperor scrap, but Luffy should absolutely have the strength to take on an Emperor, even if he gets clowned and has to try a different tactic or push himself further the next time, as I suspect will happen with Kaidou. Imagine Gear Four Luffy or Zoro cutting mountains if they'd been at Marineford - do they really seem that outclassed now? I dunno man, they're pretty powerful but do you really think that they're as powerful as some guy with a gun? 
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Jan 15, 2017 20:04
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The problem really isn't whether or not Luffy can punch Big Mom down and make her stay down in a 1v1, but the wider implication of this whole arc. If a Supernova with half his crew can sail into Whole Cake Island and beat an Emperor just like that, then pretty much every other faction in the world are a bunch of chump losers. The world's balance of power would then make 0 sense.
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Jan 15, 2017 20:18
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Pureauthor posted:The problem really isn't whether or not Luffy can punch Big Mom down and make her stay down in a 1v1, but the wider implication of this whole arc. Well the biggest thing regarding that (which this arc has made a point of) is that a lot of Big Mam's power comes from information, blackmail, and subterfuge. A buster call with Akainu or Kizaru at the helm could probably gently caress up her and her island pretty bad, but the Marines are probably locked out from ever directly opposing her due to something she knows (void century) or someone she has a relationship with/control over/dirt on (A celestial dragon or other high ranking government official). Luffy and crew don't really have anything to lose other than each other, so they can go all out with more reckless abandon. This is why one of the biggest things stopping Sanji is the threat against Zeff and the Baratie, and how the crew deals with that will be the "deciding" factor in whether or not they actually "beat" Big Mam.
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Jan 15, 2017 20:31
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I mean it's possible this could end with the Strawhats not actually beating Big Mom herself but rather just screwing up all her plans and escaping with Sanji and the Poneglyph. She might be strong still but they would have humiliated her (again).
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Jan 15, 2017 20:31
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Pureauthor posted:The problem really isn't whether or not Luffy can punch Big Mom down and make her stay down in a 1v1, but the wider implication of this whole arc. Yeah, and there's no way in hell some kid and his four friends could beat a Warlord. And hey... I'm starting to think a fruit can't turn you into a rubber man either...
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Jan 15, 2017 20:35
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Luffy is not beating Big Mom. Not this arc, no way and it's not even looking like its setting up to be that way. You guys are really selling both the character and the narrative short if you think Luffy is just going to waltz in with half his crew and take down an Emperor. He barely took down Cracker and you think he can take down a giant army plus the other two commanders and Big Mom without even Zoro backing him up? That's just silly sorry. Everything is pointing towards the climax of this arc being the wedding cake and the eventual explosion of the box which sets off Big Moms rampage against both the Straw Hats and any allies they have. Not only that, if you think Big Mom is weak that makes literally no sense. All of her subordinates so far have been ridiculously strong and for some reason you think they'd follow someone who wasn't much stronger than even that?
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Jan 15, 2017 20:39
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Its not just luffy with half the crew, the germa 66 are here
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Jan 15, 2017 20:48
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Luffy is going to send Big Mom flying, because that's what he's set on doing and so he's going to do it
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Jan 15, 2017 20:52
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I could see the germa fighting big mom's crew while the strawhats take on big mom together. I could also see them running and having the pursuing big mom force accidentally piss off kaido, starting a 3-way war
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Jan 15, 2017 20:52
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Jose posted:Its not just luffy with half the crew, the germa 66 are here Plus Jinbe and his crew (if they follow his lead, which I find likely), Carrot and Pedro, maybe Pekoms, and Capone Bege and his crew are also working against Big Mom.
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Jan 15, 2017 20:57
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Is Capone working against her? The last I remember he was tossing Pekoms off a cliff.
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Jan 15, 2017 21:05
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Is Capone working against her? The last I remember he was tossing Pekoms off a cliff. In that scene he bragged about betraying Big Mom in some unspecified way, iirc. I'd go grab the page but I'm on my phone.
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Jan 15, 2017 21:10
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Kabanaw posted:Luffy is going to send Big Mom flying, because that's what he's set on doing and so he's going to do it yeah that's how I see it. if he didn't straight up say "oh we have no beef? well then gently caress you, how's that for beef?" to big mom i'd probably expect them to try to evacuate with Sanji in tow, but luffy deliberately started poo poo and once he finds out about other poo poo mom has done to his friends (taking Pedro's life force, whatever the gently caress she did to his newest crew member) he's only going to be all the more determined.
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Jan 15, 2017 21:17
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Spanish Matlock posted:I dunno man, they're pretty powerful but do you really think that they're as powerful as some guy with a gun? I rewatched this scene in the segment in the anime and it was bad. Kizaru felt threatened enough by Bendy Shootman's gun to not kill Shanks but BenditlikeBetham doesn't do poo poo when Kizaru wonders off to try and shoot down Law's submarine
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Jan 15, 2017 21:26
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Luffy better eat that special wedding bento Sanji made.
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Jan 15, 2017 21:42
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I believe in Luffy.
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Jan 15, 2017 21:43
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Seeing as Luffy is going to be the King of the Pirates, it's a little silly to act like he's just some up and comer. Is it really so unrealistic that the Pirate King can wreck an Emperor's poo poo? Also the whole thing with the Emperor stalemate is the control of territory. We saw the team bypass all the security and warning systems that are what keep other people at the edge of the territory Big Mom controls. Finally Cracker was Big Mom's top guy. There's no reason to expect every other fight to be just as hard. Especially since Sanji's going be on, likely literally, fire, Jinbei is back, Brooke and Nami together counter a lot of Big Mom's own power, and team Bropper is still traveling the mirror dimension on the way to save the day.
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Jan 15, 2017 21:52
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Pureauthor posted:The problem really isn't whether or not Luffy can punch Big Mom down and make her stay down in a 1v1, but the wider implication of this whole arc. Yea, it'd be almost as unprecedented as some nobody rookie waltzing in to one of the World Government's HQ and beating everyone there up just like that. That'd make total chumps out of every other big crew if it happened.
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Jan 15, 2017 22:05
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We've seen that Big Mom is no slouch in a straight-up fight but prefers to exert force from a distance, given her long history of torching islands on a whim and holding other people's lives hostage to keep their loved ones in line. If she winds up with no more leverage and a group of hostiles on her front doorstep, she might be in a spot of bother. That goes double for the Germa, who so far have shown themselves to be a bunch of up-jumped thugs who vastly overestimate their own power compared to the rest of the New World.
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Jan 15, 2017 23:36
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tsob posted:Yea, it'd be almost as unprecedented as some nobody rookie waltzing in to one of the World Government's HQ and beating everyone there up just like that. That'd make total chumps out of every other big crew if it happened. Yeah, defeating people vastly out of their league is kind of the Straw Hats' thing (Crocodile and Enel, anyone?), and we still don't have a clear idea after the timeskip of just what their league is. Even Dolflamingo folded like paper when Luffy went all-out - assuming that even was all-out for him.
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Jan 15, 2017 23:51
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The balance of power in One Piece exists primarily so that the Strawhats can ignore or break it, not to constrain them in any way. Edit: Anyone arguing that the Strawhats can't do this or shouldn't do that is basically making the same mistake that Crocodile and probably at least a few other villains made, which is assume that Luffy and the Strawhats are, or at least should be weaker and less able than them just because they're not as famous or materially powerful. Besides which, the two biggest Supernovas, Kidd and Law have already been shown to be less capable than Luffy simply because Law was hesitant about various things Luffy did and lost against Doflamingo, while Kidd lost against Kaido. Oda has basically done all the groundwork he needs to do to maintain the balance of power by showing that even the other big Supernovas aren't able to challenge Emperors. Luffy eventually will at some point, without any extra training or much in the way of extra experience at worst, and this is about as good a chance as he's going to get so it might as well be now frankly. tsob fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 00:02
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Darth Walrus posted:Yeah, defeating people vastly out of their league is kind of the Straw Hats' thing (Crocodile and Enel, anyone?), and we still don't have a clear idea after the timeskip of just what their league is. Even Dolflamingo folded like paper when Luffy went all-out - assuming that even was all-out for him. zoro chumped the hell out of every "strong" person he's fought in the new world so far. the first real fight where every strawhat was put into strong conflict was crocodile, until thn, most of their fights had distractions and annoyances or they were put into lovely circumstances, but they won even with those huge handicaps. up until now in the new world, its been the same. they've chumped all their fights in almost every instance, or had to deal with a weird handicap. so yeah, it would not surprise me if luffy was as strong as a yonko in a specific circumstance. he may even have stuff beyond gear 4 right now that we're not even aware of.
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Jan 16, 2017 00:38
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What if like Sugar, a simple KO will cancel out Big Mom's powers? I could see her aging and turning to dust as all the extra life she's taken goes back to their original owners.
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Jan 16, 2017 00:47
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Andrew_1985 posted:What if like Sugar, a simple KO will cancel out Big Mom's powers? I could see her aging and turning to dust as all the extra life she's taken goes back to their original owners. I think this is likely, because it would cure Pedro (and maybe Jinbe if he's in the same situation) of their shortened lifespans. Also the same thing happened when Moria got KO'd, so yeah.
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Jan 16, 2017 01:03
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Andrew_1985 posted:What if like Sugar, a simple KO will cancel out Big Mom's powers? I could see her aging and turning to dust as all the extra life she's taken goes back to their original owners. Plus, a lot of the homies would revert back to inanimate objects, further weakening any forces that would retaliate against the Strawhats.
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Jan 16, 2017 03:01
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I always assumed the strawhats are similar to the crews of Shanks and Rogers. One is an emperor and the other was the pirate king... No reason why the strawhats wouldn't be able to reach that level of accomplishment. The entire grand line is pretty much a race where you either continously get stronger or get defeated/give up. I do expect the strawhats to eventually leave on good terms with big mom. She's evil but in a childish way...
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Jan 16, 2017 03:42
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Piriwi posted:I always assumed the strawhats are similar to the crews of Shanks and Rogers. One is an emperor and the other was the pirate king... No reason why the strawhats wouldn't be able to reach that level of accomplishment. The entire grand line is pretty much a race where you either continously get stronger or get defeated/give up. After what she planned to do to Sanji? No way.
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Jan 16, 2017 04:19
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She also keeps an entire library full of slaves and puts out hits on her husband and children when they become useless or don't obey her. There isn't a hope in hell Luffy is befriending her.
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Jan 16, 2017 04:50
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Luffy could probably overlook the enslavement and razing of other kingdoms and robbing souls and so on and et cetera, but all of that on top of directly threatening his crew? He's going to go scorched earth unless his crewmates drag him out of there.
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Jan 16, 2017 04:51
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There is no way Big Mom is ever going to share food with Luffy.
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Jan 16, 2017 04:53
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What if Big Mom steals the bento box that Sanji is going to give to Luffy? Would the island even survive that rage storm?
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Jan 16, 2017 05:08
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Gyges posted:What if Big Mom steals the bento box that Sanji is going to give to Luffy? Would the island even survive that rage storm? there wouldn't be enough souls on the planet to keep her alive
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Jan 16, 2017 05:10
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Also remember theres a loving bomb. Luffy sent a bomb in the treasure box like 300 chapters ago.
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Jan 16, 2017 05:16
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I believe in the Pirate King. 
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Jan 16, 2017 06:14
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:I believe in the Pirate King. i didnt even know this was an emote
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Jan 16, 2017 07:15
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