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Played the official Fort module tonight on TTS with a mate Really enjoyed it. Really wish we had 4 players instead of 2. Once you learn the rules each turn is relatively quick and it's just a really enjoyable deck builder/drafting game. Artwork is cute as poo poo as well. 100% adding this to my pickup list. If you play and get confused here's an extreme cliff notes version of your turn. ------------------------ You as the current Leader will do ALL of the following actions, and then the next player becomes the Leader 1.) Discard your yard. 2.) Play your card(s) from your Hand. 3.) Recruit 1 kid from the Park, blindly from the Park Deck, or Another Players Yard to the Discard Pile 4.) Discard the Played card(s) to the Discard Pile 5.) Discard the unplayed cards in your Hand to your Yard. Best Friend Cards (Star cards) go to your Discard Pile instead. 6.) Draw back up to 5 cards from your Personal Deck. For Step 2 - Other Players can choose to Follow The Leader by discarding a card with the matching suite and then taking the Public Action on that card. ----------------------
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Aug 7, 2020 15:26
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ketchup vs catsup posted:First off I’ve heard (only heard) that rum & bones version 2 is actually good. Interesting. That's cool if Rum & Bones Version 2 is good! 2013 me would have been pretty interested in a moba game but not so much any more 
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Aug 7, 2020 15:32
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Fort is basically Race for the Galaxy meets Carl Chudyk and that’s a pretty good mix.
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Aug 7, 2020 15:32
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Moderation is gone now for the thread because the moderator, Octavian, has lost power. This should be way fun!
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Aug 7, 2020 16:55
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pointsofdata posted:I've had great success introducing Dominion to family, looking forward to getting an expansion. I wish they had versions with better art though, even as a ~~premium~~~ product It's called Tanto Curea.
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Aug 7, 2020 17:00
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He's back. Moderated nearly a page out of the discussion.
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Aug 7, 2020 17:09
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Mayveena posted:He's back. Moderated nearly a page out of the discussion. We are lucky to have you here.
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Aug 7, 2020 17:36
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Here was his reply on Facebook:quote:BGG Community Manager here - most of the community is not toxic, but toxic voices do tend to be louder and feel entitled. We prevent them from disrupting these discussions and ban them if they continue trying. We need more discussions like these, and I intend to help keep BGG a space where they can happen. I'd love to see a discussion on how to include LGBTQ people in board games. I'm straight however so I don't feel credible starting such a discussion. What do you folks think? It's fairly easy and happens quite a bit in video games but board games are so abstracted. This is my favorite place to talk board games. We don't all agree but we are (generally  ) rational and can talk about a lot of issues without needing moderation.
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Aug 7, 2020 17:38
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Mayveena posted:I'd love to see a discussion on how to include LGBTQ people in board games. Fog of Love and Detective did it well. It isn’t a hook, it’s just there just like normal life.
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Aug 7, 2020 17:53
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Mayveena posted:I'd love to see a discussion on how to include LGBTQ people in board games. I feel that including sexuality in board games is only really relevant for games that actually examine relationships directly. But I don't think there's a large enough market for Fog of Love: Gay Edition because it's a subset of a subset of a hobby. To my mind any change to be made in that regard is probably best done through further abstraction - fully removing gender from the equation and creating material that players can directly imprint themselves upon. But some people might consider this to be erasure; I don't know. Ultimately, I think the best way to include LGBAT people in board games is to say "Here's a chair".
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Aug 7, 2020 17:56
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Jedit posted:I feel that including sexuality in board games is only really relevant for games that actually examine relationships directly. But I don't think there's a large enough market for Fog of Love: Gay Edition because it's a subset of a subset of a hobby. To my mind any change to be made in that regard is probably best done through further abstraction - fully removing gender from the equation and creating material that players can directly imprint themselves upon. But some people might consider this to be erasure; I don't know. As a bi person, this. Clumsily trying to shoehorn sexuality / relationships into places where they aren't naturally present is awkward for a lot of reasons.
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Aug 7, 2020 18:03
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Thoughts about de-emphasizing man/woman marriages for progression/engine building? And in rules?
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Aug 7, 2020 18:05
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Representation is important, but in real life sexuality is not often apparent based solely on someone's choice of visual presentation. It can be, for better or worse, if you lean heavily into some stereotypes, but it's not at all the same thing as skin color. A huge number of games provide no back story whatsoever for characters, and certainly not for people who just appear the box or other art assets. It gets even more complex if you start considering trans representation, as (this next statement is based on personal experience with individuals I know, not based on scientific fact that I can back up in any way) generally speaking trans individuals do not want to be represented as trans-female or trans-male, but rather just as the gender that they identify with. I guess what I'm saying is that representation at a superficial level in art assets is a simple enough thing to accomplish that it should be standard everywhere unless the game's setting is factually and purposefully chosen such that a particular single race or other narrowing of represenations is unarguably appropriate. If beyond that the game contains characters with depth and backstory, then there is room to work in even more diversity. I wouldn't consider it a mark against a game without any meaningful characters though if they didn't make a point to say "this individual on the box is <pick non-heteronormative archtype>". ^^^Edit: I haven't played any games I can think of where that is an element of engine building, but I'm sure that such games exist. It seems like a reasonable thing to move away from to me.
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Aug 7, 2020 18:07
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Stuff like viticulture's mama and papa cards, for example.
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Aug 7, 2020 18:41
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Big things you can do to improve representation: 1: HIRE THE PEOPLE YOU'RE TRYING TO REPRESENT. This one should come above all others, because the others will, in the end, flow from it. If you wanna represent queer people? loving hire some. Already have some? Hire some more. Wanna represent people of colour, hire some people of colour, and not just as diversioty consultants. Wanna represent disabled people? First make sure they can actually get into your buildings. Then hire some. 2: De-emphasise normativity in your artwork. Depicting a couple? Make it a non-heterosexual couple. Depicting a cis, heterosexual, physically able, white man? Change at least one of those things to be not that. Have some art featuring trans people, featuring non-binary people, featuring people of colour, featuring disabled people, ideally featuring people who fit more than one of those categories at once. 3: De-emphasise normativity in your mechanics. This isn't that huge these days, given that things like The Game Of Life are not really a thing any more, but don't force heterosexual relationships, don't force binary genders, etc etc. 4: Consider how you're writing your rulebook, and how it references the gender(s) of the players used in the instructional text and examples. (As regarding representation of trans people specifically, representing them as the gender they are, is obviously important, but equally, it's important to represent the fact that people can be trans, and that's OK - representation particularly of non-cis gender identity is important for people who might not otherwise KNOW about it. So if you represent the trans woman exactly the way you would a cis woman without making it clear that she's trans, you're kind of doing a disservice to the people you're trying to reach with your representation - trans people, out or otherwise. If they don't know this character is trans, how do they know they are being represented?) If you're making a game that is based on a historical setting, do some deeper research on the actual balance of things like races and genders in that setting, and don't assume that everyone was cis and heterosexual and white, because they almost certainly weren't. Don't use the stereotypes, take an opportunity to educate people about hy the stereotypes are dumb. This ESPECIALLY applies to anyone making games about Vikings because holy poo poo. And ancient Greece. And... you know I'm not sure there's a historical culture where there hasn't been some major misrepresentation of contemporary cultural attitudes to gender, sexuality, race or some combination of them. Also consider in particular how you're representing the police, and colonisation/war-making, if you're representing them at all.
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Aug 7, 2020 18:55
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thespaceinvader posted:(advice) This all seems great and I agree. As I said above, I don't really know how to accomplish the visual depiction of gender identity or sexuality that you describe in point 2, outside of cases where you're specifically drawing couples. (I am not an illustrator though, and if there's a way to capture those elements based solely on graphics that works, then great.) If there is prose that accompanies the artwork, whether as character details, general setting fluff, or whatever, then yes absolutely all of these things should be possible.
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Aug 7, 2020 19:12
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I think part of it is just stepping away from the standard artwork that leans heavily on emphasizing "traditional" gender stereotypes, which is honestly something we should be doing more of anyway.
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Aug 7, 2020 19:29
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Mr. Squishy posted:It's called Tanto Curea. Just googled it and feel fully owned now
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Aug 7, 2020 20:58
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So Tom Lehmann (Race for the Galaxy designer) who has worked with the Alma Mater publisher in the past, wrote to the publisher and expressed the exact same concerns I had about the game back in January. They said the game was historical thus no people of color representatives. He sent them articles proving that people of color were in Europe at that time, and that including a few would not be ahistorical. They did not respond. I hope my post tanks their sales to serve them right. https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/2480517/article/35527779#35527779
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Aug 7, 2020 22:42
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Mayveena posted:So Tom Lehmann (Race for the Galaxy designer) who has worked with the Alma Mater publisher in the past, wrote to the publisher and expressed the exact same concerns I had about the game back in January. They said the game was historical thus no people of color representatives. He sent them articles proving that people of color were in Europe at that time, and that including a few would not be ahistorical. They did not respond. I hope my post tanks their sales to serve them right. Well other than his impressive design chops that's another reason to really like this guy
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Aug 7, 2020 23:12
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quote:After centuries of de-emphasis in the history books, a bit of extra emphasis in games, imo, is a good thing. Among other things, it allows today's larger and more diverse audience to better enjoy the games we love by making it easier for them to picture themselves within the game topic. And, imo, it's the right thing to do. I thought he summed the issue up quite nicely here.
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Aug 7, 2020 23:13
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loving drat. Not that I had any doubts, but that sure removes the possibility that it was just a "we never thought of it".
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Aug 7, 2020 23:13
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If these guys were truly into history and the Renaissance they would have been tripping over each other to include some bad rear end Turks in their game.
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Aug 7, 2020 23:55
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Mayveena posted:So Tom Lehmann (Race for the Galaxy designer) who has worked with the Alma Mater publisher in the past, wrote to the publisher and expressed the exact same concerns I had about the game back in January. They said the game was historical thus no people of color representatives. He sent them articles proving that people of color were in Europe at that time, and that including a few would not be ahistorical. They did not respond. I hope my post tanks their sales to serve them right. The fact that he would write up such a polite and well-informed overview of the topic purely as a courteous heads-up to a colleague in the industry is super impressive to me. What a class act guy. (And, much like the infamous "design notes from Vlaada" anecdote, shame on them for pissing away such good advice)
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Aug 8, 2020 00:10
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King of Bleh posted:The fact that he would write up such a polite and well-informed overview of the topic purely as a courteous heads-up to a colleague in the industry is super impressive to me. What a class act guy. The story about the 'realpolitik' (for lack of a better word) that can occasionally go into trying to make it happen relating to Res Arcana was eye-opening too.
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Aug 8, 2020 00:14
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The reply to Tom’s initial concern using the phrase “colored people” kind of says it all
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Aug 8, 2020 00:15
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Every time I end up reading about board games literally anywhere else on the internet, I end up really glad that we have such a decent community here. Mayveena, thanks for pushing this issue, and sorry there are so many shitheads out there.King of Bleh posted:The fact that he would write up such a polite and well-informed overview of the topic purely as a courteous heads-up to a colleague in the industry is super impressive to me. What a class act guy. Well said on both counts.
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Aug 8, 2020 00:18
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sportsgenius86 posted:The reply to Tom’s initial concern using the phrase “colored people” kind of says it all Lol, that was the first thing I noticed too.
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Aug 8, 2020 00:47
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sportsgenius86 posted:The reply to Tom’s initial concern using the phrase “colored people” kind of says it all That and the "(as far as I know, but I may be mistaken!)." part of that sentence too. As far as I know, but I'm not willing to challenge my beliefs when presented with evidence or do any more actual research byeeeeeee.
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Aug 8, 2020 06:15
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Mayveena posted:So Tom Lehmann (Race for the Galaxy designer) who has worked with the Alma Mater publisher in the past, wrote to the publisher and expressed the exact same concerns I had about the game back in January. They said the game was historical thus no people of color representatives. He sent them articles proving that people of color were in Europe at that time, and that including a few would not be ahistorical. They did not respond. I hope my post tanks their sales to serve them right. This is a very good post, I learned things!
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Aug 8, 2020 09:05
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armorer posted:This all seems great and I agree. As I said above, I don't really know how to accomplish the visual depiction of gender identity or sexuality that you describe in point 2, outside of cases where you're specifically drawing couples. (I am not an illustrator though, and if there's a way to capture those elements based solely on graphics that works, then great.) If there is prose that accompanies the artwork, whether as character details, general setting fluff, or whatever, then yes absolutely all of these things should be possible. Hire some queer models, hire some queer artists to make art of your queer models. I'd concur that visually depicting queer people is non-trivial without risking being obvious and/or stereotypical, but... if you want to represent people, you run that risk. You reduce it by hiring the people you're trying to represent, who will be best placed to know which stereotypes are harmful, and which signifiers are helpful. The other obvious thing you can potentially do, in modern settings at least, is show the flags. Character in a trans flag t-shirt? Could be trans, could be cis, but either way, you're showing that you support the cause (ideally, make the art by drawing a trans model wearing a trans flag shirt, etc). Visual representation is obviously easier when the people being depicted have obvious visual difference from the normative depictions - but equally, unless you're a part of the group concerned, you might not be aware of the visual difference from the normative that apply. Depicting people who are gender non-conforming is a way to depict queer people in a visually obvious way, in particular - but again, treading the line between being representative and being stereotypuical is a challenge - which is why you need to ask the people you're trying to represent how best to do it. I could go into more specific examples, but I'd probably wind up stepping a little too far out of my lane, since whilst I'm not straight and not binary, I'm not, say, a butch lesbian or a trans woman, so I couldn't say exactly how best to show those people as well as they could, and more than as a white person, I could say how best to depict non-white people in a representative way. Which is why it all comes back tot hat first point: hire the people you want to represent. Everything else flows from that.
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Aug 8, 2020 13:26
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Those are great ideas. I hadn't considered use of overt symbology like flags, which could be included in less overt ways (like a small pin on an outfit rather than a full t-shirt). I think that having cohesively styled art assets could pose a challenge for hiring queer artists to draw queer characters, unless of course those artists are responsible for all of the games artwork (which is obviously a plus if possible.) Androgynous characters are also totally possible without resorting to silhouettes or the equivalent. I do still think it's a much harder challenge as far as representation goes than representation of race. The risk of accomplishing that representation by treading (even if lightly) on stereotypes of appearance may be offputting to a lot of people. Another option I thought of is to omit that representation from the character art if it would feel forced to include it, but add a statement to the box or manual in support of LGBTQ individuals. Better still, donate a small percentage of proceeds. That, at least, openly acknowledges the community in a positive way.
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Aug 8, 2020 14:03
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So each character in Alma Mater has a book. Well books didn't exist in any kind of numbers during the 'history' the game is supposed to be about, so they are pretty hypocritical as well. And naturally racists have been rating the game a 10.
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Aug 8, 2020 15:12
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Racists and paid russian bots, I gather? It seems unlikely that this sort of publicity is going to make the publisher want to publish more white-only games in the future, but only time will tell.
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Aug 8, 2020 15:29
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Mayveena posted:So each character in Alma Mater has a book. Well books didn't exist in any kind of numbers during the 'history' the game is supposed to be about, so they are pretty hypocritical as well. And naturally racists have been rating the game a 10. I assume you already reported it but I did as well.
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Aug 8, 2020 16:01
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!Klams posted:I think of this all the time and it really loving bugs me, because, the sentiment is one that should have an iconic oft referenced tweet about it, but this tweet doesn't really make sense. It conveys the point, but as quotes go, it's.... eh. A better (IMHO) quote that I've heard is "The goal of the game is to win, but the purpose of the game is to have fun."
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Aug 8, 2020 16:39
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I interpret it as "if you're not playing to win as defined by the rules, games tend to break down" for the most part.
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Aug 8, 2020 16:46
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Played Funfair. Good I like it, nice and quick. Played Unfair. Started at 12:30am.. got to 1:20am and I was falling asleep in my chair because people were taking too long. We got to the start of round 3 and called it. I don't like Unfair paired with players having AP from too many loving extraneous cards and rules to remember. rydiafan posted:A better (IMHO) quote that I've heard is "The goal of the game is to win, but the purpose of the game is to have fun." Also to win.
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Aug 8, 2020 16:51
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silvergoose posted:I interpret it as "if you're not playing to win as defined by the rules, games tend to break down" for the most part. QE is a perfect example of this. Once you don't play to win, the game falls apart completely.
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Aug 8, 2020 16:56
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silvergoose posted:I interpret it as "if you're not playing to win as defined by the rules, games tend to break down" for the most part. That makes WAY more sense.
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Aug 8, 2020 17:48
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