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Libertad! posted:How is it bad? I don't own the book, and I crave details. Calishite: Shorter and slighter in build than most other humans, Calishites have dusky brown skin, hair, and eyes. Sample names: (Male) Aseir, Bardeid, Haseid, Khemed, Mehmen, Sudeiman, Zasheir; (female) Atala, Ceidil, Hama, Jasmal, Meilil, Seipora, Yasheira, Zasheida; (surnames) Basha, Dumein, Jassan, Khalid, Mostana, Pashar, Rein ----- Shou: The Shou are the most numerous and powerful ethnic group in Kara-Tur, far to the east of Faerun. They are yellowish-bronze in hue, with black hair and dark eyes. Shou surnames are usually presented before the given name. Sample Names: (Male) An, Chen, Chi, Fai, Jiang, Jun,Lian, Long, Meng, On, Shan, Shui, Wen; (female) Bai, Chao, Jia, Lei, Mei, Qiao, Shui, Tai; (surnames) Chien, Huang, Kao, Kung, Lao, Ling, Mei, Pin, Shin, Sum, Tan, Wan Those are some of the more stark examples but you get the idea. Usually world building authors AT LEAST mix and match a little bit... Bhaal fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 23:29
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Those are all from 1st and 2nd ed Forgotten Realms products though, right? That's just FR canon? So blame Ed Greenwood?
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Nov 4, 2014 23:31
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What made me laugh until I couldn't breathe was that it occupied the same space as sub-races, so elves could choose to be high elves or wood elves and humans could decide to be fake-arabs or not-chinese, or dark-skinned-but-totally-not-africans ect. It wasn't that Forgotten Realms has ethnic groups, it's that they made them core for absolutely no reason and made it a feature of humans.
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Nov 4, 2014 23:32
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Peas and Rice posted:Those are all from 1st and 2nd ed Forgotten Realms products though, right? That's just FR canon? So blame Ed Greenwood?
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Nov 4, 2014 23:35
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"No no, it's ok! It's always been kinda racist."
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Nov 4, 2014 23:52
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But being non-African-African doesn't give you -1 INT and +1 STR or something so it's not a 1:1 comparison. I'm not saying its not racist, I'm just saying Ed Greenwood is a racist as well as a pedo. Personally I wish they'd done away with Forgotten Realms altogether, or at least not made it the "core" setting.
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Nov 4, 2014 23:57
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I don't even have a problem with saying something like "people in this region speak this language and dress like this and like to eat this kind of food." Ok, that's setting detail. But why the hell is choose your ethnicity part of character creation especially if it has no mechanical effect. If supporting it with rules would be bad (like +1 int, -1 cha for Africans) then don't put it in the character creation section of the core rulebook.
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Nov 5, 2014 00:02
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I don't know enough about either ethnic stereotypes or Forgotten Realms to know why I should be appalled by an Illuskan named Ander Stormwind.
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Nov 5, 2014 00:23
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Peas and Rice posted:Those are all from 1st and 2nd ed Forgotten Realms products though, right? That's just FR canon? So blame Ed Greenwood?
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Nov 5, 2014 00:39
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Babylon Astronaut posted:I hope you're referring to the part where humans get to choose their ethnicity. That had me laughing my rear end off. Were those ethnicities from already published material (e.g. Forgotten Realms campaign guide)? I hear Shou=China.
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Nov 5, 2014 00:44
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Bhaal posted:They basically created a bunch of human ethnic groups (their words) that map pretty strongly with ethnocentric ideas about ethnic groups in the real world... Disgusting. Shame on you Mearls.
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Nov 5, 2014 01:08
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They've updated the DM Basic rules pdf on the site to version 0.3. Looks like it's just adding two new magic items as the only difference from the previous version. Can't tell if anything else is changed. It's still mostly a monster manual that assumes you just want to fight dinosaurs and giant animals.
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Nov 5, 2014 01:57
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UP AND ADAM posted:Disgusting. Shame on you Mearls. Given that he made up none of that I don't think you can say that. Also could someone tell me how it's even slightly racist. Its just names. You don't even have to pick one of them.
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Nov 5, 2014 03:05
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MonsterEnvy posted:Given that he made up none of that I don't think you can say that.
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Nov 5, 2014 03:24
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MonsterEnvy posted:You don't even have to pick one of them. D&D Next: Just ignore the parts you don't like, and don't tell people to play other games instead.
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Nov 5, 2014 03:26
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P.d0t posted:D&D Next: Just ignore the parts you don't like, and don't tell people to play other games instead.
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Nov 5, 2014 03:31
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MonsterEnvy posted:Given that he made up none of that I don't think you can say that.
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Nov 5, 2014 03:37
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MonsterEnvy posted:Given that he made up none of that I don't think you can say that. Repeating racist stuff isn't even slightly racist? Describing your totally-not-chinese-but-uses-chinese-names race as "yellowish" isn't even slightly racist? Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 03:47
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I'm not defending anyone here, but is taking real world races and giving them an in-game analogue really racist? Are we at a point culturally where we can't acknowledge that there are different races? If I play a game with a dark skinned dude named Tyrone, but it's not really earth... is that racist?
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Nov 5, 2014 04:11
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dwarf74 posted:Well, come on, it's not like the WHOLE GAME is even out yet. You haven't even taken the 2016 supplements into consideration. D&D Next: We seriousreply to the same troll, using the same responses, for 261 pages in a row
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Nov 5, 2014 04:15
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Gerdalti posted:I'm not defending anyone here, but is taking real world races and giving them an in-game analogue really racist? Are we at a point culturally where we can't acknowledge that there are different races? Im not going to take a big issue with the race/name stuff but having asian people be yellow is pretty retarded.
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Nov 5, 2014 04:16
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Gerdalti posted:I'm not defending anyone here, but is taking real world races and giving them an in-game analogue really racist? Are we at a point culturally where we can't acknowledge that there are different races? This is pretty much my point. kingcom posted:Im not going to take a big issue with the race/name stuff but having asian people be yellow is pretty retarded. It said bronze. Yellowish Bronze. OneThousandMonkeys posted:D&D Next: We seriousreply to the same troll, using the same responses, for 261 pages in a row No people just won't let anything go. Make one stupid statement and everyone considers you a troll or moron even when your not doing anything that is worth being made fun of. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 04:17
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White people deciding whether or not things are racist is my favourite thing in the universe yessiree.
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Nov 5, 2014 04:21
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MonsterEnvy posted:No people just won't let anything go. Make one stupid statement and everyone considers you a troll or moron even when your not doing anything that is worth being made fun of. Its more than one. HTH. I'm more upset that all the cultures they've set up are so goddamn boring. You got a setting where you have every high elf being able to cast spells, magic that can redefine the universe with very little requirements to use the basics and literal gods showing up and giving people the power to bring people back from the dead. What do we get? Copy paste real world thing over and over. kingcom fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 04:24
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P.d0t posted:D&D Next: Just ignore the parts you don't like, and don't tell people to play other games instead. quote:In the Forgotten Realms, nine human ethnic groups Does it say you have to use them no it does not so this is not even an example of that. kingcom posted:Its more than one. HTH. Show me the last one then Allstone posted:White people deciding whether or not things are racist is my favourite thing in the universe yessiree. You know who is white on this board how? MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 04:25
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MonsterEnvy posted:Show me the last one then MonsterEnvy posted:Yes because it's quite clear that there is a system.
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Nov 5, 2014 04:29
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MonsterEnvy posted:Show me the last one then I mean if you really want to just argue against whatever you said being stupid you don't need me to point them out for you but whatevers. With regards to WotC defending Zak/Pundit shitlords: MonsterEnvy posted:I did not hear anything about it. It did not seem that important. With regards to there being a competent system to create monsters: MonsterEnvy posted:Yes because it's quite clear that there is a system.
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Nov 5, 2014 04:30
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Allstone posted:White people deciding whether or not things are racist is my favourite thing in the universe yessiree.
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Nov 5, 2014 04:32
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Thank you and that was not stupid. Given that Mearls literally said there was a system in the DMG when I posted that and that was in response to someone saying there was not one.kingcom posted:I mean if you really want to just argue against whatever you said being stupid you don't need me to point them out for you but whatevers. Look above to the response to the later. To the former I was right after the whole thing was mentioned and ignored I heard nothing about. It was not that important no one was talking about it. I also find people complaining that two scumbags names were in a book to be kind of pointless. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 04:32
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MonsterEnvy posted:That you and that was not stupid. Given that Mearls literally said there was a system in the DMG when I posted that and that was in response to someone saying there was not one. I repeat: Show me the formula I can use to build the monsters in the monster manual.
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Nov 5, 2014 04:35
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ascendance posted:Am Asian. It's pretty loving racist. I envy your yellowish-bronze hue. MonsterEnvy posted:Thank you and that was not stupid. Given that Mearls literally said there was a system in the DMG when I posted that and that was in response to someone saying there was not one. 
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Nov 5, 2014 04:35
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Gerdalti posted:I'm not defending anyone here, but is taking real world races and giving them an in-game analogue really racist? Are we at a point culturally where we can't acknowledge that there are different races?
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Nov 5, 2014 04:36
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Nov 5, 2014 04:36
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AlphaDog posted:I repeat: Show me the formula I can use to build the monsters in the monster manual. I don't have it. But there is one we were told is was in the DMG. Are you guys so pointlessly cynical and spiteful to not believe anything MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 04:37
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MadScientistWorking posted:It typically is because more often than not those races are whittled down to the most basest of stereotypes and often those aren't even based upon reality. Admittedly, D&D isn't unique in that regard but this is kind of the first time they were more flagrant about it for a while now. I would more alright with this stuff if it actually did something with it. Like if your doing fantasy arabs give them like the kingdoms of unlimited water they just conjure up so they have giant cities of flowing magic water in the middle of complete desert or something. I don't know anything to make them not terrible. MonsterEnvy posted:I don't have it. But their is one we were told is was in the DMG. Are you guys so pointlessly cynical and spiteful to not believe anything I'm going to be sincere here so please take what im saying seriously. People tend to believe things that exist and can see working in front of them. People have seen the monster manual and doing a fair bit of math, probability and cost/benefit analysis of what exists have determined that the actual strength rating of monsters are all over the place. This demonstrates there is no universal formula being used to create monsters of a certain CR and essentially have been added ad hock. This is why they do not believe there is a coherent formula for this stuff because everything that has been demonstrated actively contradicts what would indicate a formula. They are cynical because all material so far has actively demonstrated an ideology which directly conflicts with the coherent formula concept. People mock your defence of this because you seem to completely ignore or forgive the work people have done to demonstrate that a formula cannot exist relative to all existing data. So unless the formula specifically says the monster manual is wrong and incorrect (which would be even more hilarious), all evidence points to it not working. kingcom fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 04:37
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MonsterEnvy posted:I don't have it. But their is one we were told is was in the DMG. Are you guys so pointlessly cynical and spiteful to not believe anything Show me where he said it would be in the DMG. Not "a formula to build monsters", but "the formula used to build the monsters in the monster manual". Are you so credulous as to still believe that everything will somehow be fixed in the DMG?
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Nov 5, 2014 04:38
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Thats pretty old and I already admitted I was wrong about that.
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Nov 5, 2014 04:39
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MonsterEnvy posted:Thats pretty old and I already admitted I was wrong about that. I'd like for you to link the post where you admitted you were wrong about that. I don't disbelieve you, but I can't find it.
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Nov 5, 2014 04:43
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MonsterEnvy posted:I also find people complaining that two scumbags names were in a book to be kind of pointless. I'm glad you find the complaints to be pointless, Something Awful Forums poster MonsterEnvy. I guess associating with pieces of poo poo like that or taking any sort of advice or contribution from them in no way compromises or calls into question the final product. And people who have been personally harassed or hosed with by the two should just ignore the credits page and enjoy the product, yeah?
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Nov 5, 2014 04:44
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AlphaDog posted:Show me where he said it would be in the DMG. I don't have as many problems with it as you do. So this is not a big fix all it's just a cool add on. I reminded of the time the thread was locked because you started an argument with me about something you took out of context and were wrong about from the start. I never got to point out how you were wrong because the mod did not want another wall of text which I prepared a bit before it was locked. Anyway I will have our answer eventually. For now I can play the same game as you. Show me proof that a formula was not used. Given that they have a formula why would they have ignored it. KazigluBey posted:I'm glad you find the complaints to be pointless, Something Awful Forums poster MonsterEnvy. I guess associating with pieces of poo poo like that or taking any sort of advice or contribution from them in no way compromises or calls into question the final product. And people who have been personally harassed or hosed with by the two should just ignore the credits page and enjoy the product, yeah? If that is their only problem yes. I checked and those two don't even seem to like the final product anyway so I guess they were ignored. If Alphadog was asked to be a consultant. (though he is not on those two's level I just dislike him the most of the people here.) I would not care. I don't like those two ether and find their opinions and personalitys to be bad, but I just don't care about them. AlphaDog posted:I'd like for you to link the post where you admitted you were wrong about that. I don't disbelieve you, but I can't find it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 5, 2014 04:48
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