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cruft posted:Probably the author was tired of helping people for 6 back-and-forth exchanges, only to discover they hadn't plugged the drat thing in. That totally makes sense. I just remember the 90s when USB stuff you buy would say: “DONT PLUG THIS IN UNTIL YOU INSTALL THE SOFTWARE!!” So ambiguity makes me nervous lol
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Oct 8, 2023 15:54
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namlosh posted:That totally makes sense. I just remember the 90s when USB stuff you buy would say: “DONT PLUG THIS IN UNTIL YOU INSTALL THE SOFTWARE!!” Yeah, I would fret about which order to do things in even though the consequences for getting it wrong are utterly trivial.
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Oct 8, 2023 16:11
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I'll even plug wires into the GPIO pins with the pi powered on!
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Oct 8, 2023 16:16
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I have a single-gang outlet with POE terminating in it at eye level in my kitchen and after a bit of research I'm starting to think the best choice to add a little (7 to 10") information display there would be a Raspberry Pi. I'd like some sort of enclosure for the display and a Pi that would attach nicely over the electrical box so it looks clean. There's no power outlet or surface nearby so I really need it to be as self contained as possible. Bonus points if it fits a Raspberry Pi 3B since I already own one, but I'm willing to buy new hardware if needed. I know the Pi can be POE powered with a hat and I know the official 7" touchscreen can be powered from the Pi without a second power source, but how do I put it all together in an aesthetically pleasing way? Feels like a situation others may have encountered - open to suggestions!
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Oct 8, 2023 18:57
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I think only Pi 4 and newer supports the Poe hat. E: I'm wrong Mantle fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Oct 8, 2023 |
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Oct 8, 2023 19:13
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Mantle posted:I think only Pi 4 and newer supports the Poe hat. I think 3Bs also supported PoE.
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Oct 8, 2023 19:46
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https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/behind-the-scenes-with-raspberry-pi-5-magpimonday/quote:We could have just used a standard PD supply, get nine volts at three amps, but then you have to do the voltage conversion on the board. That costs you area, it costs you silicon, it costs you efficiency. So, we decided to do something a little bit non-standard, which is what we often do in search of performance, and create a five-volt, five-amp profile for our power supply. Also I hope they actually check if the plugged-in cable has an e-marker chip and is capable of carrying 5A. The board isn't likely to draw that much current constantly, but still it doesn't seems like a great idea to use USB-C cable rated for 3A/10W with this board. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 20:39
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Raygereio posted:https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/behind-the-scenes-with-raspberry-pi-5-magpimonday/ ugh, how come they couldn’t just bite the bullet the whole point of usb-c is to make it standard so that customers don’t have to go searching for non standard stuff!
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Oct 9, 2023 20:56
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It's definitely a swing and a miss to use a USB-C connector, a chip that supports PD, and then to require a custom PSU because you aren't using any standard PD profiles.
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Oct 9, 2023 20:56
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Thanks Ants posted:It's definitely a swing and a miss to use a USB-C connector, a chip that supports PD, and then to require a custom PSU because you aren't using any standard PD profiles. It really makes no sense.
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Oct 9, 2023 21:00
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If you really need the board space bin off one of the Micro HDMI ports
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Oct 9, 2023 21:03
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Reminder that this is the company that didn't use a switch mode power supply to run their onboard low voltage rails until the Pi 2 or even 3, I don't remember. They also are gunshy about USB C l because they're the only design I've ever seen to gently caress up the bare minimum requirements of adding two resistors and then somehow not testing it enough
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Oct 9, 2023 21:07
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If they're that concerned about cost just use a 12v 2A barrel connector. Those are cheap as hell now
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Oct 9, 2023 21:12
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I feel like the 5V/5A profile is fine considering that the board should will run off a standard 5V/3A power supply too - I don't think that article says it, but others mention that using a 3A supply works and just causes a current limit on the USB ports. I think it's a valid design decision to prefer the simplicity and power efficiency of not adding an additional voltage conversion stage, especially if something like one of the video outputs is on the table. So many of these boards are going to run headless and won't need the extra power anyway, but they will all benefit from efficiency and cost reduction. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 21:47
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Raygereio posted:https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/behind-the-scenes-with-raspberry-pi-5-magpimonday/ Oh for fucks sake. I swear to god the raspberry pi project has some of the worst hardware engineers on earth. I don't know why they're so scared of switchmode power supplies, but they really need to start following standards. The old "you have to use a genuine rpi power supply because we're drawing way too much current" was a pain in the rear end for years, and they have learnt nothing from that even now USB PD has given them an elegant solution. I wish there was a mechanism that punished them for this kind of non compliance, it shouldn't be legal to sell poo poo that deliberately does not comply with the USB standards. Splode fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 22:16
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It's truly hilarious that they get close to making a good product every time and then decide to poo poo their pants at the last minute.
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Oct 10, 2023 00:29
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that’s why I never buy the first revision of a new raspberry pi
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Oct 10, 2023 03:16
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IDK I'm way more impressed that it has like twice the performance of the last one and a real PCIe bus than bothered that I might need to buy a new $12 power supply for a new computer, but go off I guess.
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Oct 10, 2023 03:43
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Cojawfee posted:It's truly hilarious that they get close to making a good product every time and then decide to poo poo their pants at the last minute. I honestly wish they'd just fail completely and give room for someone else to make The Standard embedded Linux platform
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Oct 10, 2023 04:29
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Splode posted:I honestly wish they'd just fail completely and give room for someone else to make The Standard embedded Linux platform It'd just be like the xkcd, we'd just have an additional standard
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Oct 10, 2023 11:19
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Klyith posted:Wonder if that's attached to the CPU via PCIe? Which brings up an interesting possibility: a raspberry pi GPIO accessory board for normal computers. https://www.cnx-software.com/2023/10/07/raspberry-pi-rp1-datasheet-block-diagram/ they're running 4 lanes of PCIe between the SOC and the RP1, so the SOC has at least 5 lanes (1x + 4x?) wonder if the inevitable compute module 5 will have the RP1 onboard, or just break out all of the PCIe lanes so the carrier can decide what to do with them
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Oct 12, 2023 21:53
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I wouldn't call the power supply non-standard. USB power supplies are mostly only required to do 3 amps, but some support more, and this is one of them. Otherwise it's doing everything by the book.
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Oct 13, 2023 07:59
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Some support more at 20V. Here's a thing saying that while it's possible you will find one that does this, don't do it: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/567191/is-5v-5a-battery-charging-legal-with-usb-and-how-to-signal-it Actually I wonder if that is a Raspberry Pi guy asking lol
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Oct 13, 2023 08:06
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ante posted:Some support more at 20V. Power negotiation is allowed to work with any voltage in the valid range and any amount of current that the cable is rated for.
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Oct 13, 2023 08:12
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Any rationale why they're doing mini/micro hdmi, vs just hdmi over usb-c? Also  are they really not using USB-C PD? 
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Oct 16, 2023 03:57
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Pi 5 uses PD, but requests a particular combination of volts and amps that is pretty rare and most supplies don't support. Specifically, the PD standard only requires supplies to go over 3 amps when they're supplying 20+ volts. Doing it at other voltages is optional, it's not against the standard. Dylan16807 fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Oct 16, 2023 |
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Oct 16, 2023 04:20
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so while technically compliant, you'll still be stuck buying specific power supplies for your pis, except now they'll cost more, and be even more difficult to integrate into more complex systems
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Oct 16, 2023 11:06
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Hadlock posted:Any rationale why they're doing mini/micro hdmi, vs just hdmi over usb-c? I feel like the pi foundation gets kickbacks from power supply and esoteric dongle manufacturers
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Oct 16, 2023 11:32
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Has anyone actually established that the new supply will be necessary? There's a whole lot of doom and gloom about it, but I provided an article indicating that the Pi 5 will work off of a 3A supply by limiting current to the USB ports to 600mA. That's plenty if you're just using a mouse and keyboard, or especially running the Pi headless.Hadlock posted:Any rationale why they're doing mini/micro hdmi, vs just hdmi over usb-c? They are using PD, they're just only using it to say how much 5V they want and not to ask for other voltages. We have direct sources saying that they did this to not have to add more components to the board, which they would have had to do in order to use higher voltages. I am still baffled as to why so many people think this is an obvious blunder, given that the low cost and consistent form factor of the Pi are generally agreed to be good things. Why is HDMI over USB-C so much better than micro HDMI? They already set the latter standard with the Pi 4 and I imagine that if they switched off of it a mere one generation later, a lot of folks would still be complaining for that reason instead. e: Also HDMI Alt Mode is pretty much dead, nothing uses it. You could get DP over USB but now everyone will be kvetching twice as much because they'll need an active adapter to get back the HDMI they had before instead of the cable that most of them already have for a Pi 4. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Oct 16, 2023 |
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Oct 16, 2023 12:43
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Eletriarnation posted:I am still baffled as to why so many people think this is an obvious blunder, given that the low cost and consistent form factor of the Pi are generally agreed to be good things. Every release of the Pi has been a compromise. I think people just got upset when the first round of 4s had that dumb design flaw making them only work with certain PSUs, and are now chomping at the bit to be the first on their block to land a sick burn about the 5.
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Oct 16, 2023 13:15
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It’s also just like, bad for the standard. Like if Apple went all usb-c on their laptops in 2016 but they only worked with apple dongles and you could only fast charge in this plug, but any other usb mode has to go on that plug, and displays can only use this type of cable with this type of adapter oriented in this way while charging in 12v mode or something. Yeah people will just buy the poo poo they need but the standard is supposed to require less poo poo in general and that sucks.
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Oct 16, 2023 13:33
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Uh... but it's not like that.
e: Like, the whole framing of this seems wrong. It's not "you need this new adapter for the Pi 5 to work properly", it's "you can use the old adapter you already had, BUT if you get one with these extra capabilities then the Pi 5 can make some use of that". Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Oct 16, 2023 |
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Oct 16, 2023 15:09
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Eletriarnation posted:There is literally nothing at all stopping all of the current manufacturers of ubiquitous 20V/4.5-5A Type-C laptop chargers from allowing these chargers to do 5V/5A as well, it just hasn't been an issue before now. I would not be surprised if this becomes more common going forward. This isn't true at all. That's not how power supply design works.
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Oct 16, 2023 18:58
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Yeah I would assume that they would design their power supplies to be able to negotiate the commonly used combinations. It makes no sense to do 5V at 5A when you could just negotiate a higher voltage with lower current to put less stress on the cable. That's the entire point of offering those higher voltages. Then you let the device convert the voltage itself.
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Oct 16, 2023 19:08
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Companies are already putting out chargers that use the Programmable Power Supply standard to do custom voltages. Compared to that, 5V 5A doesn't seem notably hard. Looking around at amazon briefly, I see a $15 no-name 45W PPS PD charger that says it can do 5A at 3.3V and up.
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Oct 16, 2023 19:29
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cruft posted:Every release of the Pi has been a compromise. I think people just got upset when the first round of 4s had that dumb design flaw making them only work with certain PSUs, and are now chomping at the bit to be the first on their block to land a sick burn about the 5. yeah, and you beat me to it 
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Oct 16, 2023 21:24
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What is the price difference on a 5v only PD chip vs a 5/n/20v chip? like $0.60? if that
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Oct 16, 2023 21:35
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I guess I don't know what more I can say. This is the system we're getting. I guess y'all could write a letter to the Raspberry Pi Foundation explaining how silly they've been.
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Oct 16, 2023 21:39
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is your argument that people can't call product decisions dumb by posting in a thread
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Oct 16, 2023 21:55
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Inept posted:is your argument that people can't call product decisions dumb by posting in a thread Heh, point taken. This thread is the letter!
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Oct 16, 2023 21:57
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