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There are both too many games now and also nothing coming out.
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Aug 23, 2018 14:26
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Doom: Eternal comes out in 2019. Battlefield V soon if you like multiplayer And, hm.. yeah I guess nothing else really
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Aug 23, 2018 14:29
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I’m seriously dying at “movies and TV and music are art, but games are a vehicle for art” like that take is so impressively reductive and wrong that it’s like you need a master’s in Philosophy of Aesthetics just to craft something so painfully wrong. Also gently caress Roger Ebert, he made fun of video games and then he DED. Good Riddance, movie man Like “Zelda and Dark Souls are bad” is a fine unpopular opinion, as they are both unpopular and opinions. “Games don’t qualify as art” is just open faced admission of your own inability to perceive artistic value from having an experience crafted for you. It means your brain is broken.
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Aug 23, 2018 14:31
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the word art is meaningless its trash
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Aug 23, 2018 14:32
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Bust Rodd posted:Like “Zelda and Dark Souls are bad” is a fine unpopular opinion, as they are both unpopular and opinions. “Games don’t qualify as art” is just open faced admission of your own inability to perceive artistic value from having an experience crafted for you. It means your brain is broken. I don't think we need to go there. I think games can be art and my brain is insanely hosed
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Aug 23, 2018 14:45
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Sodomy Hussein posted:The world of games has become a lot bigger than AAA titles in sheer number of real games you can buy on a legitimate digital storefront. It's no longer realistic to talk about games as if everything is coming out of the EA turd factory. I frankly don't see a lot of difference between the movie industry and the games industry at this point on an artistic basis. "Except for indy studios" leaves out like 99% of games. I think you're misreading my argument, because that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that you see more big studios backing smaller, less mass-market products in film than you do in games, though it's often through subsidiary studios. And just like you point out later, those movies still have to make money. I'm not arguing that a movie like Phantom Thread or something was intentionally made at a loss and didn't make money ~for the art~ or whatever, because that's clearly false. I will say that Ubisoft does have a history of backing these weirdo titles, though, under the UbiArt label, which is like a smaller-scale version of how Universal Studios uses Focus Features: it's their publishing arm for "independent" games. Another thing is that I'm not saying that commercial art isn't art. It absolutely is. I'm just saying that part of the reason people who define "art" as "something with nebulously defined 'artistic value'" don't see games as art is because the kind of games that really push the medium tend to fly under the radar because they don't have anything big really marketing or pushing them. And again: those are not the only games that are "art." Bad art exists. Commercial art exists. Both are still art. Every Call of Duty game is an artwork made by hundreds of artists working in different disciplines towards the same goal. Sodomy Hussein posted:All of those top directors (and lol at the idea that "top directors" don't have to worry about marketability) had to break through by making commercial pieces. This betrays a misunderstanding of how movies work. Yes, that is exactly what I'm arguing. I'm talking about exactly what you're talking about here and saying that games don't tend to work the same way, for a few reasons, largely boiling down to what audiences want and what kinds of games can make a profit on medium to large budgets. Maybe what I'm actually trying to say (poorly) is that you don't see a lot of mid-budget games. You don't often see a game studio or publisher budgeting several million dollars to make a market a game that takes big risks with its aesthetics, gameplay, or narrative. The games that do that tend to be much lower-budget affairs. And what a low- to mid-budget game looks like and plays like is notably different--it's not just smaller in scale, but often lower in graphical fidelity and detail, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but a limitation that movies don't really have (unless you're trying to do a lot of conspicuous CGI, I guess). To be very clear, this isn't something that "never happens." Two recent examples I can think of are Life Is Strange and Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice (which also managed extremely impressive visuals on a lower-than-blockbuster budget, so again, certainly not impossible), and in Japan, Nier Automata. Hideo Kojima is always the biggest example to bring up here, too, especially since he gets to make very weird and personal stuff with very generous budgets, but I really think he's an outlier and honestly I can't even really think of an analog for him in another medium. Quentin Tarantino gets pretty huge budgets but he's also not making something like Death Stranding, I guess. But much like Kojima, he gets those budgets because his brand of weird is pretty palatable to mass audiences, which means that it's quite profitable. People have pointed at Metal Gear Solid V as a particularly wasteful and dragged-on development process but that game was extremely profitable, so  And, just to harp on the point from above, I am not saying that a project that isn't risky isn't art. These are separate discussions that I unfortunately blended together, but I didn't mean to. This part's more about the "perception" of video gaming as an artistic medium more than the reality of it. Harrow fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Aug 23, 2018 |
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Aug 23, 2018 14:46
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steinrokkan posted:"Game games" (lol) are art if table tennis or petanque are art. I mean, they are. Nobodys going to frame a video of that long shot pass from the Giants during the superbowl against the Patriots and put it into a museum but imo thats the sort of feeling that should be evoked when people say games are Art. A game is a set of rules and someone masterfully playing within those rules is where the magic happens. Daigos full parry is one of the ultimate forms of expression in video games. Meme Emulator fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Aug 23, 2018 |
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Aug 23, 2018 14:49
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Sodomy Hussein posted:The world of games has become a lot bigger than AAA titles in sheer number of real games you can buy on a legitimate digital storefront. It's no longer realistic to talk about games as if everything is coming out of the EA turd factory. I frankly don't see a lot of difference between the movie industry and the games industry at this point on an artistic basis. "Except for indy studios" leaves out like 99% of games. not only is this not a response to what i said, it's incidentally also entirely wrong. weird.
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Aug 23, 2018 14:50
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Grow Home is art
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Aug 23, 2018 15:54
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Bust Rodd posted:Like “Zelda and Dark Souls are bad” is a fine unpopular opinion, as they are both unpopular and opinions. “Games don’t qualify as art” is just open faced admission of your own inability to perceive artistic value from having an experience crafted for you. It means your brain is broken. No you.
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Aug 23, 2018 16:05
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i'm sorry, this is all I can think of when anybody asks about if games are art https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWamtv1mTVA
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Aug 23, 2018 16:09
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Meme Emulator posted:long shot pass from the Giants during the superbowl against the Patriots First off, if the goalposts have moved towards "having feelings is art" then you win because it's no longer an argument worth having, second, traditionally the value in athletics has been the appreciation of and participation on peak human performance and form, which is why I picked pétanque as an example, which is not that, much like video games Also all this posting and arguing is pointless because nothing is art a priori and categorically, neither games, nor music, nor movies, paintings, novels...
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Aug 23, 2018 16:10
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hey you guys remember that wolverine movie game that was on the 360? i think it was a really cool game, that's an opinion which isn't very common or popular as far as i know
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Aug 23, 2018 16:11
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steinrokkan posted:First off, if the goalposts have moved towards "having feelings is art" then you win because it's no longer an argument worth having, second, traditionally the value in athletics has been the appreciation of and participation on peak human performance and form, which is why I picked pétanque as an example, which is not that, much like video games You're focusing on what the person interacting with <thing> is doing and not what <thing> is when deciding if something can or cannot be considered art. When I play a video game, I am not, myself, creating art (in most cases, though there are definitely creative games where you do make things so maybe the line blurs there). I am, however, consuming an artistic work. Nothing about a form's interactivity or the existence of rules as a feature of works in that form precludes those things from being art. That said I'm not sure we're really even discussing with the same premises here because I'm not sure what you mean by "game games" here: steinrokkan posted:"Game games" (lol) are art if table tennis or petanque are art.
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Aug 23, 2018 16:16
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Caesar Saladin posted:hey you guys remember that wolverine movie game that was on the 360? i think it was a really cool game, that's an opinion which isn't very common or popular as far as i know I remember. It was pretty good. I hate, however, how those action adventure games lock basic moves away until you earn enough XP to upgrade your character. Like, I get locking super moves, etc, but if I remember correctly, you had to unlock a basic "X, X, X" combo and the ability to grab enemies. E. I mean, he's supposed to be the best at what he does, for fucks sake. Brother Tadger fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Aug 23, 2018 |
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Aug 23, 2018 16:30
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Harrow posted:You're focusing on what the person interacting with <thing> is doing and not what <thing> is when deciding if something can or cannot be considered art. When I play a video game, I am not, myself, creating art (in most cases, though there are definitely creative games where you do make things so maybe the line blurs there). I am, however, consuming an artistic work. Nothing about a form's interactivity or the existence of rules as a feature of works in that form precludes those things from being art. my minecraft house is art
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Aug 23, 2018 16:36
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"Games are art" is just part of a continuing need to convince your mom and dad that games are Serious Business that don't rot your brain.
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Aug 23, 2018 16:40
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See also: video game trophies/achievements
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Aug 23, 2018 16:42
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Fourth Wall posted:"Games are art" is just part of a continuing need to convince your mom and dad that games are Serious Business that don't rot your brain. Yeah just like the TV, because as we all know the only media that is actually good to consume are books. Books with pictures don't count. I say that despite thinking that people who try to argue for games as art need some sort of undercover cop intervention from their handler letting them know they've gone too deep. Like, sure they're art but it's not like you're going to convince some soccer mom of that so who cares. All the articles you were seeing about it back in the 2010s back when Gone Home and poo poo were coming out were basically just preaching to the choir. RazzleDazzleHour fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Aug 23, 2018 |
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Aug 23, 2018 16:47
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I mean, part of it is that we're treating the word "art" like it's a label that connotes some sort of nobility, virtue, or inherent value, when it isn't. Games are art but it doesn't loving matter that they are. Art can be good or bad, commercial or not, meaningful or vapid, "high" or "low" culture, it doesn't matter. Saying something is "art" isn't the same as saying it's good or the same as saying it's "high art." Somerville, MA has a Museum of Bad Art, after all. What I think people are actually trying to say is that "video gaming as a medium deserves to be taken as seriously as books, movies, music, and television by critics, academics, and society," which... I mean yeah, probably, but most people who try to make that argument with any sort of platform aren't doing a very good job of it. And it's not like television, movies, and novels were immediately embraced as forms that could ever be used to produce something worthy of being taken seriously, either. Harrow fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Aug 23, 2018 |
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Aug 23, 2018 16:57
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Metal Gear Rising Revengeance is the most fun Metal Gear game and they should make more games like that and less like ~classic~ Metal Gear.
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Aug 23, 2018 17:01
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AGGGGH BEES posted:Metal Gear Rising Revengeance is the most fun Metal Gear game and they should make more games like that and less like ~classic~ Metal Gear. Sadly I'm pretty sure both kinds of Metal Gear games are dead  I'd love Revengeance 2
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Aug 23, 2018 17:02
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Sheradin College offers a 4 year bachelor's of video game design. It is in the faculty of art  https://academics.sheridancollege.ca/programs/bachelor-of-game-design
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Aug 23, 2018 17:05
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Phantasium posted:Downpour was a nice upturn but the enemy design was super loving boring and I still can't get over the fact that it had sidequests. Downpour was a lovely Silent Hill game, but with a little tweaking it would have been a great The Suffering game.
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Aug 23, 2018 17:05
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Humans Fall Flat is art
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Aug 23, 2018 17:33
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Report: Video Games Will Never Be Art
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Aug 23, 2018 17:36
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10 minutes of "gameplay" footage featuring Norman Reedus walking around with a jar baby and a flappy flashlight. Truly, video games are art now.
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Aug 23, 2018 17:38
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Basically any game with hilarious physics and low poly 3D made today is art
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Aug 23, 2018 17:42
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Universe Master posted:10 minutes of "gameplay" footage featuring Norman Reedus walking around with a jar baby and a flappy flashlight. Truly, video games are art now. I am more interested in Norman Reedus's baby jar than I have ever been about any painting and I have a BFA in painting
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Aug 23, 2018 17:42
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It's kind of fun having no personal investment in Death Stranding but finding it really amusing. It's not going to annoy me if it takes another five years to come out because this weird string of highly-produced trailers while people try to guess what the game actually is has provided plenty of free entertainment already  Like it's not even that I don't want to play the game and I'm laughing at people who are hyped or anything. I'm certainly interested and if it's good when it comes out that'll be great and I'll play it. It's just that it's somehow turned into a hype circus that has become entertaining all on its own, combined with the fact that I'm not mega-hyped for the game myself so I'm not jumping out of my seat at any new reveal.
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Aug 23, 2018 17:52
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I'm triggered.
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Aug 23, 2018 17:59
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Harrow posted:I think you're misreading my argument, because that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that you see more big studios backing smaller, less mass-market products in film than you do in games, though it's often through subsidiary studios. And just like you point out later, those movies still have to make money. I'm not arguing that a movie like Phantom Thread or something was intentionally made at a loss and didn't make money ~for the art~ or whatever, because that's clearly false. I think we can agree that games are art and that no, it doesn't "matter." quote:Yes, that is exactly what I'm arguing. I'm talking about exactly what you're talking about here and saying that games don't tend to work the same way, for a few reasons, largely boiling down to what audiences want and what kinds of games can make a profit on medium to large budgets. As it would happen, the "mid-budget" movie (production costs of say $15-$60 million) for many years was viewed as on its way out. Inscrutable market trends and Netflix have revived it. To name other guys making their own kind of movie with large budgets behind them--Neil Blomkamp makes $100 million movies about end stage capitalism. The Wachowskis have mostly made stuff that would have been broadly considered unmarketable, especially in terms of plot.
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Aug 23, 2018 18:01
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WHo gives a gently caress if games are art, it’s a meaningless distinction. That being said the insurance fraud mini game in Saints Row is art.
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Aug 23, 2018 19:26
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Harrow posted:Maybe what I'm actually trying to say (poorly) is that you don't see a lot of mid-budget games. You don't often see a game studio or publisher budgeting several million dollars to make a market a game that takes big risks with its aesthetics, gameplay, or narrative. The games that do that tend to be much lower-budget affairs. And what a low- to mid-budget game looks like and plays like is notably different--it's not just smaller in scale, but often lower in graphical fidelity and detail, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but a limitation that movies don't really have (unless you're trying to do a lot of conspicuous CGI, I guess). To be very clear, this isn't something that "never happens." Two recent examples I can think of are Life Is Strange and Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice (which also managed extremely impressive visuals on a lower-than-blockbuster budget, so again, certainly not impossible), and in Japan, Nier Automata. Those kinds of games get made all the time, some studios basically just exist to create mid-budget games (Supergiant Games and Klei for example). You have a Pyre avatar, that was a mid-budget game!
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Aug 23, 2018 21:09
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Fourth Wall posted:"Games are art" is just part of a continuing need to convince your mom and dad that games are Serious Business that don't rot your brain. SHUT UP MOM I'M AN ARTIST *goes back to screaming racial slurs on xbox live*
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Aug 23, 2018 21:16
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Harrow posted:It's kind of fun having no personal investment in Death Stranding but finding it really amusing. It's not going to annoy me if it takes another five years to come out because this weird string of highly-produced trailers while people try to guess what the game actually is has provided plenty of free entertainment already People getting hyped for something thats so far away is wierd in general. Like, I love Kojima and will buy Death Stranding but Im not gonna dissect trailers or post threads in Resetera with titles like "Is Death Stranding getting too Pretentious for its own sake?"
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Aug 23, 2018 21:16
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My posting is an art form.
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Aug 23, 2018 21:26
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punk rebel ecks posted:My posting is an art form. Somebody already made the "a pile of poo poo is art" comment
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Aug 23, 2018 21:27
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yall still art posting hahahaha
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Aug 23, 2018 21:56
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| # ? May 31, 2024 10:41 |
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mega man x4 is slightly better than mega man x1, if it had laughing enemies and wide-ranging stage-changing effects like the first one it would be way better hands-down mega man x5 is okay mega man zx was pretty cool and they should remake it, with the sequel, for the switch many smartphone remakes of ps2 era games control far better than could be expected and often look really nice as well the smartphone is the ideal platform to play final fantasy tactics
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Aug 23, 2018 22:17
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