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crowdfund vicky 3
vanity slug fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Dec 16, 2018 |
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Dec 16, 2018 22:15
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Crazycryodude posted:The opaque economic system that nobody understands is the main selling point of Victoria, though A Victoria game I understand is not a Victoria game I want.
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Dec 16, 2018 22:23
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loving love Fiona Apple posted:A Victoria game I understand is not a Victoria game I want. The ideal release for vicky3 is it gets announced a year out, no dev diaries are released, then the game gets dropped to little announcement with no manual, also the devs flat out lie about how the game works assumeing they even know
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Dec 16, 2018 22:29
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Agean90 posted:The ideal release for vicky3 is it gets announced a year out, no dev diaries are released, then the game gets dropped to little announcement with no manual, also the devs flat out lie about how the game works assumeing they even know I'd buy that. Edit: Do you think the Emirate of Palermo invented pizza in this world or was it strangled in it's Napolitan crib? OR, better option, is their a crazy/delicious arabic pizza-type thing? Ralepozozaxe fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Dec 16, 2018 |
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Dec 16, 2018 23:00
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lebanese pizza seemed to sell well in melbourne australia when i was there so idk edit: this world is pretty loving harsh but/and it's had a lot more inter-cultural interaction between muslims and christians than our world did, right through the enlightenment evidently being a bi-faith event (e.g. tirruni). i bet the cuisine is loving delicious and everybody takes it for granted edit: let them eat falafel? i guess muslim people have cakes too so this one doesn't need changing oops oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Dec 16, 2018 |
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Dec 16, 2018 23:10
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halva, maybe (side note: halva is good as hell. I think it's the only thing I'd genuinely describe as an acquired taste)
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Dec 16, 2018 23:29
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Ralepozozaxe posted:I'd buy that. Historically, the South of Italy was strongly influenced by Arabic/northern African cultures. In that sense, not a ton has changed.
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Dec 17, 2018 00:26
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Agean90 posted:The ideal release for vicky3 is it gets announced a year out, no dev diaries are released, then the game gets dropped to little announcement with no manual, also the devs flat out lie about how the game works assumeing they even know Everytime they check the code on vicky 2's economy it has changed since the last time they updated it and nobody knows what changed, who changed it, or why, but it all still works so they dont go looking for answers to questions that are better left alone.  Victoria 3 will appear fully developed and abandoned in a wicker basket at the doorstep of PDX studios, with each subsequent dlc being delivered on the winter equinox following
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Dec 17, 2018 00:30
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yeah victoria 2 is great specifically because you can't really control events unlike many other games, some weird emergent behaviour can just completely blindside you and send you scrambling. this is a Good Thing, imo
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Dec 17, 2018 00:48
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The reason I like Vicky 2 is because it models a country as more than just borders and armies; the real driving force of the game is the people.
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Dec 17, 2018 00:52
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Pakled posted:The reason I like Vicky 2 is because it models a country as more than just borders and armies; the real driving force of the game is the people. Nothing quite beats the feeling I had when I had an frca get going, stayed together, then passed a hunch of reforms while my pops we're pissed. Mostly because then when the springtime of nations fired they fired at the same time as a big European war and I quintupled the number of pops in my country over like 10 years
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Dec 17, 2018 00:55
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It's not that fun to mod, and that's all that matters in the end. Just getting it on par with EUIV and HoI4 in terms of mod accessibility would help wonders.
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Dec 17, 2018 01:01
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oystertoadfish posted:edit: let them eat falafel? i guess muslim people have cakes too so this one doesn't need changing oops "I guess" is an understatement. People in the Middle East ("Muslim people" is much to broad a category to be useful from a culinary standpoint) eat a truly staggering amount of cakes and sweets at almost every opportunity they get (having been there a while back before all the war stuff, it seemed that people ate desserts after almost every meal), often stuff that's caramelized and glazed with honey and sugar. Also with tea and coffee, it's about 70-80% sugar as far as I could tell. It's a fact about Middle Eastern cuisine (Levantine in particular I think) which often doesn't seem to come across to people who just assume it's all falafels and shawarmas. Dance Officer posted:Historically, the South of Italy was strongly influenced by Arabic/northern African cultures. In that sense, not a ton has changed. I don't think that had any bearing on the invention of pizzas, seeing as though that happened hundreds of years after that influence ended, which really was mostly Sicily and Malta (the latter of which kept the language influence), Southern Italy had greater lasting influences from Byzantine rule and Greek culture, which shares a lot of common points with Levantine culture in either case.
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Dec 17, 2018 06:43
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Crazycryodude posted:Peaceful reform definitely would have happened, as proven by the long and successful history of peaceful reform before the civil war. "Surely this time it'll work!" I say, as the SGA murders their 928th Grand Vizier for the crime of saying "maybe the Portuguese are people too" or "maybe we shouldn't be shoveling 12 year olds into the Orphan Flensing Machines." Hashim has stated if we kept voting liberal there probably would'nt have been a civil war, and IIRC also that there would have been some reforms before the end of Vicky after some major fights. Dance Officer posted:Casually kill millions and pretend it's the lesser of two evils GunnerJ posted:"The lesser evil of fascism" - goons OTL sure, fascist oppression and genocide is worse IRL, despite there being less famines. But in this timeline (it seems most posters here who keep defending the Iberian Holodomor do it by changing the topic to the various OTL fascist genocides) fascism hasn't committed any genocide yet, and the communists have. skipThings posted:It's rather sickening that some people even cheer on pretend facism in this day and age I've consistently said that Liberalism and the merchants would've been the best for Andalusia (and would have passed some social reforms if Vicky wasn't being Vicky) and that the Rais and his fascist state was evil, just that in this timeline fascism hasn't gotten its genocide on to an equal or greater extent than communism (at least not yet). If some of you are going to try to character assassinate over an alternate timeline game the least you can do is not bring in baggage from OTL, as hard as that may be. Hashim posted:With all that said though, I will also add that ending up with fascists in charge definitely wouldn't have made things better, not by a long shot. They came to power through a bloody coup, in case you're forgetting, and they would've been just as totalitarian and violent, except with the Majlis still empowered (and who wants that?). Well, there's the Word of God/OP. It would've been the same amount of violence except with the Majlis still in power. (Whom most of us would want dead. I'd agree of getting rid of them, but it just causes too much instability and costs a civil war not to gradually coopt their power peacefully rather than slaughter them.) RA Rx3 fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Dec 17, 2018 |
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Dec 17, 2018 07:02
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The liberals might have been the most optimal choice for the people living in Iberia, but that would have been at the expense of the many millions of people living in our African and Indian colonies.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:16
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The Andalusia royals went full Belgian Kongo (was it during a Royalist or Imperialist term?), but voting Socialist meant the Khedive became a local royal dictatorship (very likely a race-based royal upper class too, but hopefully there's some intermarrying going on), cementing the treatment the locals were getting, and even became independent, thus meaning the Andalusia settler government abusing the tribes ended up with no oversight from the humanists back in Andalusia. The Liberals would've given them some limited political emanicipation eventually before decolonization hits full throttle, same as was slowly happening in OTL/the real world by the early to mid-20th century (and sometimes earlier in the Portuguese and French colonies). RA Rx3 fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Dec 17, 2018 |
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Dec 17, 2018 07:20
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I never wanted us to colonize Africa or India to begin with. It’s a fair point that the Khedive situation got worse under the Socialists, but we inherited a problem that we never should have had. Voting for the Imperialists is the only reason why we even have this misersble debate. It seems weird to me that the arsonists are pointing out the inadequacies of those trying to contain their fires as if that is somehow a valid reason why we should give those responsible for the disaster their matches back.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:37
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In terms of gameplay, apart from prestige what is the benefit of colonies? I 100% did them myself in game for both RP and Prestige reasons, but is it a resource/pop thing?
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Dec 17, 2018 07:41
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Lord Windy posted:In terms of gameplay, apart from prestige what is the benefit of colonies? Securing access to rare late-game trade goods, particularly oil and rubber, is pretty good. Also coal if your metropole doesn't produce much of it. Aside from that, the biggest value of colonies is soldier pops.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:46
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Snipee posted:I never wanted us to colonize Africa or India to begin with. It’s a fair point that the Khedive situation got worse under the Socialists, but we inherited a problem that we never should have had. Voting for the Imperialists is the only reason why we even have this misersble debate. It seems weird to me that the arsonists are pointing out the inadequacies of those trying to contain their fires as if that is somehow a valid reason why we should give those responsible for the disaster their matches back. Good point, but they'd probably have been better off under a consistently liberal Andalusia overlord than Morocco, which was largely the alternative. As it is now, with the Royalists messing things up, the Imperialists expanding the footprint, and the Socialists letting a dictator go independent it's the worst of all worlds. Actually... there's Benin, a strong, regional actor. As the only regionally based alternative it probably would've been best if it had been Benin that conquered and modernized/reformed the continent (hopefully without going Co-Prosperity Sphere). Or we could discuss what the world would be like if no one ever forced actions on someone else, but that world doesn't exist (might be interesting what kind of patchwork world would evolve if everything was anarchist/tribal/clan-based (although a lot of it would be like the Sentinel Islands)). RA Rx3 fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Dec 17, 2018 |
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Dec 17, 2018 07:47
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The quality of these posts are quite low.
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Dec 17, 2018 07:55
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Looking forward to seeing how the war shook out and the inevitable 'what demands do we present/acquiesce to in the post-war conference' vote Hashim will have us do maximum doom ahoy
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Dec 17, 2018 07:59
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Palermo seemed like a bit of a backwater for the entirety of EU, and never really seemed like it had a renaissance that the real world Italy had, so I doubt how much it would've had access to new-world plants for a long while. I think maybe England invented pizza in this world, Neimni Sund invented deepdish before getting wiped off the face of the earth, and then Waono made a much better variant when Europeans (and morocco) brought them cheese and wheat. Randarkman posted:"I guess" is an understatement. People in the Middle East ("Muslim people" is much to broad a category to be useful from a culinary standpoint) eat a truly staggering amount of cakes and sweets at almost every opportunity they get (having been there a while back before all the war stuff, it seemed that people ate desserts after almost every meal), often stuff that's caramelized and glazed with honey and sugar. Also with tea and coffee, it's about 70-80% sugar as far as I could tell. People forget about it a lot, but the levant to central Asia used to be amazingly opulent back in the day, at least for the standards of the time. They had all that trade going back and forth between the mediteranean and China, and so managed to have ample access to every spice so they could build traditions shoving every one of them into a dish, and then showing off their bounty. I think the main thing that made that area into more of a backwater was the spread of industrialism by nations that preferred to skip overland routes and go by sea, and I'm not sure what could've sustained it and kept it relevant through the age of sail.
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Dec 17, 2018 08:31
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Frangleterrian-Australian barbeque is going to be weird in this timeline. Morocco seems like it might have the best food, with the Gharbian, Indian and African influences.
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Dec 17, 2018 09:12
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think the main thing that made that area into more of a backwater was the spread of industrialism by nations that preferred to skip overland routes and go by sea, and I'm not sure what could've sustained it and kept it relevant through the age of sail. The oceanic trade that put the silk road out of business was long established by the time industrialization kicked off, but yeah.
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Dec 17, 2018 11:46
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SlothfulCobra posted:People forget about it a lot, but the levant to central Asia used to be amazingly opulent back in the day, at least for the standards of the time. They had all that trade going back and forth between the mediteranean and China, and so managed to have ample access to every spice so they could build traditions shoving every one of them into a dish, and then showing off their bounty. The other thing that made that area into more of a backwater was the Mongols coming and destroying it all. Like, Baghdad went from being one of the richest and most important cities in the world to being a provincial backwater and the major tipping point in that transition was when the Mongols came, burned down the city, killed almost everyone in it, and destroyed its complex irrigation system.
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Dec 17, 2018 14:08
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vyelkin posted:The other thing that made that area into more of a backwater was the Mongols coming and destroying it all. While true that the Mongols caused alot of damage in the Middle East, the truth is that the Islamic World actually recovered mostly from the damage alot quicker than is realized. Iran for instance had a kind of economic and cultural renaissance from about the 14th and 15th century, and for Baghdad it's not unlikely that more damage was done by Timur in his sack than by the Mongols in 1258. In any case alot of people are not aware that Baghdad and Iraq had actually declined alot in importance and become relatively poor and backwards long before the Mongols came along mostly because of the endemic warfare and instability associated with the collapse of the Abbasid Empire in the 9th and 10th centuries, which did alot of damage to its irrigation systems and pretty much put an end to Iraq as a cultural, political and economic center of the Islamic World from that point on (Egypt, Iran and Central Asia kind of took its place). The claim that the Mongol invasions and the sack of Baghdad put an abrupt to the Islamic Golden Age is simply put not supported by the fact. In fact it was during that period from the late 9th century to about the 14th century that much of the Islamic World was poltiically fragmented and weak following the collapse of Abbasid Empire. It is after this with the establishment, growth and remarkable success of the Ottoman, Safavid and Mughal Empires from the 15th to the 17/18th century that the Islamic World returns to a position of strength.
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Dec 17, 2018 15:03
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jfc shut the gently caress up dude
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Dec 17, 2018 15:07
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"The fascists never even had the chance to commit atrocities, checkmate commies!" sure is a loving take.
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Dec 17, 2018 15:09
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GunnerJ posted:"The fascists never even had the chance to commit atrocities, checkmate commies!" sure is a loving take. 'well the OP said that fascists "definitely wouldn't have made things better" so obviously they were no worse either!!!'
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Dec 17, 2018 15:14
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Ahhh, the Vicky section of Paradox LPs
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Dec 17, 2018 15:16
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the fascists would not have wiped out the majilis, thence they are worse
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Dec 17, 2018 15:47
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I've read that the Mongols seriously damaged the environment around Baghdad from all the poo poo they dumped into the river when they razed the city.Dance Officer posted:The oceanic trade that put the silk road out of business was long established by the time industrialization kicked off, but yeah. I'm not sure the irrelevancy actually happened until industrialization made part of the world explode while the other stayed where it was. Heck, I'm not even sure that the silk road was properly irrelevant for the longest time, since going all the way around all the landmass still was pretty slow going for a while until ship speeds really improved. Although the discovery of the new world filled with new spices and the establishment of spice-producing plantations probably didn't help.
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Dec 17, 2018 16:32
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SlothfulCobra posted:I've read that the Mongols seriously damaged the environment around Baghdad from all the poo poo they dumped into the river when they razed the city. I'm not disputing this is true. Though it should be kept in midn that in 1258 Baghdad and Iraq was not at its height, and had declined massively in wealth and importance since the heyday of the Abbasid Empire.
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Dec 17, 2018 16:34
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V. Illych L. posted:the fascists would not have wiped out the majilis, thence they are worse
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Dec 17, 2018 17:09
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V. Illych L. posted:the fascists would not have wiped out the majilis, thence they are worse
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Dec 17, 2018 17:33
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:I'd rather have mana, focus trees and mission trees over broken mechanics and an economic system that no one at Paradox knows how it works. vicky is like, 10 times the game that HoI4 is maybe 12 the opacity is the fun part!
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Dec 17, 2018 20:41
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Agean90 posted:The ideal release for vicky3 is it gets announced a year out, no dev diaries are released, then the game gets dropped to little announcement with no manual, also the devs flat out lie about how the game works assumeing they even know recreating an idealized v2 experience
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Dec 17, 2018 20:42
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V. Illych L. posted:the Mensheviks would not have wiped out the dvoryanstvo, thence they are worse Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Dec 17, 2018 20:54
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:vicky is like, 10 times the game that HoI4 is Hitlers Gay Secret posted:It's not that fun to mod, and that's all that matters in the end. Just getting it on par with EUIV and HoI4 in terms of mod accessibility would help wonders.
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Dec 17, 2018 22:51
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