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just rename it to IP6.9
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Aug 9, 2023 04:27
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Internet Explorer posted:[edit: I also have to recite the alphabet in order for me to tell you what the next character is. Pretty much the same with months. It's amazing.] 
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Aug 9, 2023 04:37
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You don't need to recite the osi model to know how a message gets from A to B, but you do really need to know about many of the steps that message takes if you want to be able to troubleshoot issues where that message isn't getting through. When asked about what happens when you try to reach Google, yeah dns is important, but what about default gateways and routes? (VPN issues?) what about firewalls? What about load balancers? What ports is the server listening on? What protocols is it configured to accept? Are there redirects? I'm only seeing 3% packet loss on this link, and that's a low number so that's probably not the problem, yeah? Heck developers are starting to sour on the idea of microservices everywhere, and discovering running things on the same server is surprisingly fast! Turns out no one ever told them about the overheads of TCP encapsulation.
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Aug 9, 2023 04:41
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I wouldn't spend a lot of time on the OSI model if someone asked me to describe how to open a webpage in as much detail as possible, but it would at least be mentioned in passing. Of course in a networking engineer, so I am biased. And for those who think that the OSI model is deprecated? You are wrong. The first four layers are as relevant as ever. L5-L7 is meh. L8 (dumb users) will always be relevant.
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Aug 9, 2023 06:09
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Listening to everyone saying how a basic network person or IT person should know this and this and this makes me feel like the dumbest IT guy ever. I know like 10% of a gently caress ton of IT but not more than that on any one thing. And I don’t know most of what I see in here. It’s crazy.
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Aug 9, 2023 06:49
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You don’t need to know any of the things folks are saying are essential to be effective or successful at your job, and you certainly don’t need to know exactly how networking protocols are actually implemented to be effective at troubleshooting. If you’re being hired explicitly as a network engineer or SRE sure, but the vast majority of IT jobs are much more general than that. I like knowing exactly how the Lego pieces fit together, pretty much regardless of subject domain. I find understanding and having opinions on theory (like when one model is more useful than another) to be very impactful on my own ability to understand and iterate upon complex systems. That said, you do not need to be a theoretician to be effective in IT. There’s a lot to be said for just getting on with the job rather than getting lost in the theoretical weeds. Still, if you understand your theory though, you’re probably going to more effective than someone who knows how to use specific tools, and so that’s what I prefer testing for in interviews. The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Aug 9, 2023 |
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Aug 9, 2023 06:59
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Cat Army
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Quote != edit
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Aug 9, 2023 07:01
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GreenNight posted:Listening to everyone saying how a basic network person or IT person should know this and this and this makes me feel like the dumbest IT guy ever. I know like 10% of a gently caress ton of IT but not more than that on any one thing. And I don’t know most of what I see in here. It’s crazy. This is for network engineers specifically where you're expected to be an SME on your domain of expertise. A general knowledge of IPv4 is enough for most IT people. Also, this thread has a disproportionate number of people at larger more complex organizations. For your average IT guy in anything from small to a mid sized environment, a lot of what is discussed here is way outside of any normal scope. Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Aug 9, 2023 |
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Aug 9, 2023 07:18
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Networking is also a dark art and WiFi introduces all sorts of other bullshit (especially in old construction where you don’t know what’s in the walls). I respect network people (my mom was one for 30 years) but Jesus Christ you couldn’t pay me enough to do that poo poo. Seems like there’s always an order of magnitude more worth of bullshit when issues pop up with the network vs other IT work. It ain’t for me, but bless the nerds that do that poo poo so I don’t have to.
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Aug 9, 2023 07:35
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I dunno any of that poo poo and I'm moving all our stuff to the someone else's computer so if I really need to fix something the solution is to reboot the router or tell the user to call their internet company
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Aug 9, 2023 07:40
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What I have learned from interfacing with the networking and on prem guys is that computers barely work.
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Aug 9, 2023 08:12
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They've run a bulldozer through IT at our place and senior guys were taken out immediately - no handover, no wind down period - just gone. I'm here for now whether I like it or not though. I'm being tasked with changing our our Primary Production domain controller (win2012) to another new physical machine in the rack (2016 or 2019 tbd), I've got nothing to work off in terms of what might break because of a dependency on the IP it's currently statically assigned as nothing is written down (of course), and it predates my arrival. I can prob lean on a network guy a little to monitor traffic for 40 days to try and see what's hitting that directly, and might need updating after the switch, but can any goons point me to a checklist they've used or can recommend for this task? I've moved FSMO roles and stuff before on our test domain but this machine goes back to the formation of the company and things haven't aways been done in a best practice way. We do have a lot of DC's for our size so I can leverage those. I also have to start and run CAB and setup a DR plan ( we never had one?!) so I'm either getting mad promoted or I'm out of there as soon as I can pay off a loan. Any recommendations on a guide would be a huge help
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Aug 9, 2023 11:54
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DrBrezo posted:They've run a bulldozer through IT at our place and senior guys were taken out immediately - no handover, no wind down period - just gone. I'm here for now whether I like it or not though. update DNS, DHCP scopes, check servers/firewalls/routers for statically assigned DNS and update those, check client VPN configuration, check what else is running on that DC (print server, file shares etc). Then turn it off and see what breaks, turn it back on and troubleshoot from there.
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Aug 9, 2023 12:06
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I had an rear end in a top hat boss who use to harp on us and ask "did you walk it through the OSI model???" every time we asked him a question. This was not limited to networking issues. This was asked even with helpdesk inquiries. YES THE loving CABLE IS PLUGGED IN I CHECKED THAT FIRST!!!
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Aug 9, 2023 12:41
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Vargatron posted:I had an rear end in a top hat boss who use to harp on us and ask "did you walk it through the OSI model???" every time we asked him a question. This was not limited to networking issues. This was asked even with helpdesk inquiries. YES THE loving CABLE IS PLUGGED IN I CHECKED THAT FIRST!!! As obnoxious as that is, I’ve worked way too many tickets sent over from desktop support that said “The internet is down!!!” only to get on-site and find a single PC that was moved and the cable unplugged. Most of the time it was the Ethernet cable, though a few times it was the power cable. I guess checking to make sure if the computer can even turn on isn’t part of the OSI model.
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Aug 9, 2023 12:54
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Can't get link without power... 
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Aug 9, 2023 13:23
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Every person that asked me about the OSI stack was always an aggravating rear end in a top hat with delusions of self grandeur. If it's called out in a job interview, i usually get out of the room as a pavlov reaction.
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Aug 9, 2023 14:17
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I think how it’s brought up matters more. If it’s a “gotcha” thing and they’re looking for trivia, piss on them. If they’re looking for troubleshooting/critical thinking skills, or if it’s mentioned in passing then fine.
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Aug 9, 2023 14:25
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My boss created an alert in an unknown monitoring tool that automatically creates a ticket for connection resets on a 3rd party API. Can’t turn it off because it’s probably coming from a private account on something like pingdom and can’t filter it because we don’t have privileges to do so in the ticketing tool (not sure if it’s even possible). At least it’s good for our ticketing metrics like ‘# of tickets resolved’ and ‘mean time to resolve’. Not that anyone is looking at those, but I’m trying to find an upside here. Oh yeah, boss is OOO for the next 4 weeks. Guess I’m now on full time ticket closing duty. Welcome to the circus.
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Aug 9, 2023 14:28
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SlowBloke posted:Every person that asked me about the OSI stack was always an aggravating rear end in a top hat with delusions of self grandeur. If it's called out in a job interview, i usually get out of the room as a pavlov reaction. "Delusions of self grandeur" is my favorite Bob Ross episode
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Aug 9, 2023 14:39
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I now get an MFA challenge for every server I rdp to.
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Aug 9, 2023 14:48
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Bonus points if the MFA just needs you to tap “yes it’s me” because you now don’t have MFA if you’re getting prompts fairly regularly each hour and the app isn’t telling you where they are coming from.
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Aug 9, 2023 15:02
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Yea we have to put in a 2 digit code now. Prefer facial recognition.
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Aug 9, 2023 15:07
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you people have a lot of trauma
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Aug 9, 2023 16:41
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This thread is basically the IT worker VFW.
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Aug 9, 2023 16:43
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I didn't see the value of the OSI model until a few years ago when someone I was working with said offhandedly, "Looks like it's working at Layer 2" and it allowed us to move on to the next step. A lot of people simply do not have a mental framework for troubleshooting in an organized, methodological fashion. If you don't do that instinctively, the OSI model provides a structured path for troubleshooting. The TCP/IP model may be great for what it does, but taking Iron Rose's comments at face value -- which I'm fine doing, they are probably right, I never even really think about the TCP/IP model and would have to look it up to remember more than "it's fewer layers and they squish multiple OSI layers together" -- it apparently doesn't model roughly 50% of what I am interested in at any given time. So I think my takeaway from this entire line of conversation is that a lot of us have very different jobs and care about very different things, and different mental models are useful depending on what you do for work. Personally, my current favorite OSI model mnemonic is People Don't Need Those Stupid Packets Anyway. GreenNight posted:Listening to everyone saying how a basic network person or IT person should know this and this and this makes me feel like the dumbest IT guy ever. I know like 10% of a gently caress ton of IT but not more than that on any one thing. And I don’t know most of what I see in here. It’s crazy. If it makes you feel better, I don't know poo poo about most of what people talk about in here either. I am a network guy, but my role is pretty different from your average network engineering gig, and sometimes I feel like a dumbass in my job even though 90% of the time I do have the answers. I like to think that the same level of personal ability that helped me learn the skills I need for my current role would help me learn the new skills needed for a different role if I started doing the stuff other people do. tehinternet posted:Seems like there’s always an order of magnitude more worth of bullshit when issues pop up with the network vs other IT work. Cup Runneth Over posted:What I have learned from interfacing with the networking and on prem guys is that computers barely work. All of this is 100% true. This is a constant complaint of network specialists, but nobody but us understands networking even the tiniest bit, so the network is constantly blamed for problems even though it's almost always fine, so I spent a lot of time attempting to prove a negative, which is of course impossible.
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Aug 9, 2023 17:27
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Sometimes it's even the network's fault 
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Aug 9, 2023 17:33
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Basically gently caress packets
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Aug 9, 2023 17:46
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Computers were a mistake. Letting them talk to each other doubly so.
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Aug 9, 2023 17:47
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If the packet isn't leaving the computer it's helpdesk's problem If the packet is leaving the computer but not getting where it needs to go it's the network engineer's problem If the packet is getting to the destination but not coming back it's the sysadmin's problem If there is no packet we are finally free from the accursed Internet and humanity can transcend into beings of pure light
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Aug 9, 2023 17:50
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As far as the memorizing the OSI model goes, I read something a long time ago which boiled down to "I refuse to memorize anything I can quickly look up" and that has been a great thing for me to remember. OSI model that I never How to do some esoteric fix on a home brew DNS command line app at a company I have not worked at in 7 years? Yeah, I can do that from memory still. Ugh.
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Aug 9, 2023 18:13
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Wizard of the Deep posted:Computers were a mistake. What are they doing back there? Colluding? I don't think so!
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Aug 9, 2023 18:20
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tokin opposition posted:If the packet isn't leaving the computer it's helpdesk's problem Unfortunately, none of these are always true. The first one, there could be an issue with the DHCP server or option configuration, which would probably be on a network or systems person to fix. The second one, I would expect a helpdesk tech to check things like patch cords, though that might vary between organizations. The third one, maybe, but there could be a routing issue causing traffic to flow only in one direction. Computers are dumb. guppy fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Aug 9, 2023 |
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Aug 9, 2023 18:25
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DrBrezo posted:They've run a bulldozer through IT at our place and senior guys were taken out immediately - no handover, no wind down period - just gone. I'm here for now whether I like it or not though. Just migrate, do the best you can to point to the new box, and then cut over and see what breaks.
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Aug 9, 2023 18:53
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That is a heck of a Udemy sale that ends today. Can anyone recommend a course on there that covers wired 802.1x implementation in detail? Almost everyone is using Clearpass or ISE, but I've been directed to attempt implementation with Windows NPS for budget reasons. Most of it should be pretty similar regardless of the NAC, but I'm hesitant to buy, say, an ISE class in case it doesn't meet my needs. Additional important requirement: I really need it to cover the new-style (C3PL) Cisco stuff. I also have a Pluralsight subscription, but have never been able to find anything on this topic that wasn't ISE-specific, and I didn't find it very helpful.
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Aug 9, 2023 18:53
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Kat McNamara has a bunch of stuff on 802.1x and C3PL http://www.network-node.com/blog/2017/10/7/ise-c3pl-switch-configuration. I used that link to deploy that style of config for a deployment at a ~5.5k enterprise. Switch config is more or less NAC agnostic, and for very basic 'MAC or Certificate' Auth there should be a 1 to 1 mapping of ISE to Microsoft's NPS in terms of functionality and everything you need to do, you just need to find the right section in the UI. uhhhhahhhhohahhh fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Aug 9, 2023 |
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Aug 9, 2023 19:43
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we use a dedicated PDF printing software because my_boss.txt (the currently used version was released for XP) and lo and behold it's not liking Intune deployment and I have no idea why. Currently trying all the obvious issues but I really just want to argue for using the built in system that's been here since 7 (I think)
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Aug 9, 2023 19:45
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guppy posted:I didn't see the value of the OSI model until a few years ago when someone I was working with said offhandedly, "Looks like it's working at Layer 2" and it allowed us to move on to the next step. Same here. I think the bigger value in the OSI Model is how it introduces you to frameworks or a structured-method of thinking. Information Technology or technology in general is not about route memorization - there is simply too much and to make it complicated a lot of things are inter-connected with dependencies. It's about "learning fast" or using frameworks to understand and then solve a problem even if it's something you aren't exactly that all familiar with in the first place.
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Aug 9, 2023 20:16
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uhhhhahhhhohahhh posted:Kat McNamara has a bunch of stuff on 802.1x and C3PL http://www.network-node.com/blog/2017/10/7/ise-c3pl-switch-configuration. Thanks, I have actually been referred to that exact page here before and it is indeed great and is what I have based all of my work so far on. I would like to understand everything a bit better as it's taken quite a bit of tweaking and failure to get this far, which is why I'm looking for something a bit more comprehensive. We have a somewhat complex wireless 802.1x setup already that I'm integrating this with. EDIT: I would also be happy to buy a book, provided it were written by someone who can write clearly and not by one of Cisco's masters of writing useless, opaque documentation. (I know Katherine McNamara works for Cisco, but as far as I can tell her only book credit is CCNP Security Identity Management -- which probably would cover what I need, but a lot more besides, and I'm not really equipped for all that.) But I figure most books covering it will also cover a much broader array of topics, which is why I thought Udemy might be the way to go, a nice focused course on the specific topic I want. There are a bunch of ISE courses and maybe one of those would be fine, I dunno. I have no basis to judge them, which is why I'm soliciting recommendations. guppy fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Aug 9, 2023 |
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Aug 9, 2023 20:19
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I don’t give a gently caress about the OSI or TCP/IP model but to be frank you haven’t been around this stuff long enough or worked with enough teams if you can’t recognize saying ‘it’s layer 2/3/4/7’ problem sounds authoritative and ends a lot of arguing
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