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In the Kingdom-building rule subset, does anyone have thoughts or experience with the Black Market? Specifically, how does one explain a government spending 50 build points' worth of resources to create and set up shops explicitly designed for illegal, secret, or illicit wares?
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Apr 10, 2015 14:12
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 11:33 |
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It's basically a government sponsored drug cartel. You're making illegal good for sale in other countries. They may or may not be illegal for private citizens in your own nation, but they're definitely illegal in the nations you're exporting to.
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Apr 10, 2015 14:51
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Play testing our first VTT-based PFRPG adventure! We're not planning to sell physical books or PDFs, but interactive webpages that provide all of the "assets" you need to run the game in the VTT: maps, NPC tokens, macros, etc. Here I'm doing some roleplaying. The party defeated a gang of bandits, and an NPC druid approaches them to tell them tales of undead in the forest, and an ancient enemy returning.  The party stumbles upon the ruins of an ancient cyclops empire, and none of the PCs rolled well enough to know anything about this amazing magical phenomena occuring there, or the heathen ritual being performed by the witches. INVEST IN KNOWLEDGE SKILLS, PEOPLE! Nagis the ninja walks in to the glowing cloud and gets zapped by energy-beings, empowered by the strange magic.  After being burned hard by the lightning lashes of some wyrds, Nagis runs away and the rest of the party wades into glowing fog and ribbons of magical energy to slaughter the enemies.  "How hard is it to climb down the rope?" "Well, you're in full-plate and have a -6 to it." "How far is it?" "Twenty feet." "gently caress it, He'alya just jumps down into the hole." 
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Apr 10, 2015 18:09
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Beef Hardcheese posted:In the Kingdom-building rule subset, does anyone have thoughts or experience with the Black Market? Specifically, how does one explain a government spending 50 build points' worth of resources to create and set up shops explicitly designed for illegal, secret, or illicit wares? I believe we had someone who wanted to build a black market - his reasoning was his character was going to embezzle the money needed for the market and part of the BP cost was bribes for local guards. Pretty sure we were neutral/neutral with a wide range in alignments so no one was too annoyed with it.
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Apr 10, 2015 23:44
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Yeah, you could write off the cost as you're losing money because you've got these 'merchants' that aren't paying taxes or import duties or whatever. The black market is a cost in BP because of the opportunity cost of who would ordinarily be dealing there. Bribes and stuff is another factor, but the main BP cost is you knowingly turning a blind eye to stuff and covering for them occasionally with inefficient laws etc.
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Apr 13, 2015 15:56
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Okay, thanks for the input; it makes more sense now. I talked to another player about it, he described it more along those lines; a city not-quite openly admitting that they're running things like a cartel or syndicate. While any given city is going to develop a black market of some kind at some point, we (the PCs on the ruling council) wouldn't be able to take advantage of it without putting individual roleplaying effort into it. Without the bribes, corruption, and 'underworld infrastructure' that the BPs represent, drug dealers are going to be a mite weary about the Steward just dropping into a bakery and wanting to buy a dime bag. I had an idea of saving up my personal cash reserves and then dumping it into the treasury and then using that to "buy" a black market that my character would essentially be running; my GM has house-ruled the Black Market BP point down to 10, so it's something that might be feasible further down the line. I'm running a Warpriest of Desna that's been acting as a quasi-ranger/jungle guide (campaign is set in the Mwangi Expanse), and is filling the Verderer role. The mayor is a Paladin of Abadar and has managed to gather a decent number of converts. While my character isn't really evangelical, he's looking at ways to counteract that influence, and ideally by doing something more than trying to win a series of hopeless Diplomacy checks to convince people to worship Desna. I floated the idea of 'splitting' the cost of starting a black market to the Spymaster, who seemed interested at the prospect. He would know who to talk to in order to get the city side of things running, and my character would be able to help figure out ways for various goods to get smuggled in and out through the wilderness. Obviously we'd need to talk to the GM to figure out how something like this might work; as a group, we've been playing together for years, and there hasn't ever been any major backstabbing or betrayals among the various campaigns that have been run (unless it was played for laughs with a character that was doomed; the GM generally handles PC PVP by having both characters murder each other in GM-controlled combat, then calling the players idiots and telling them to roll new characters). It would be fun if the GM let my character and the spymaster buy it 'under the table', and the other characters then had to figure out where the sudden influx of drugs and crime is coming from (with the players laughing and cursing us at the same time). Beef Hardcheese fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 17:08
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Ok, I'm going to have to roll a new character soon in pathfinder. Lvl Cap is 10, but everyone is min-maxed to hell and back. It's sort of the point. Does anyone know of some good completely overpowered lvl 10 builds? I've looked at Synthesist Summoner, but everything we fight has DR, which is bad for multiple attacks. My lvl 10 Samsaran conjuration wizard died to unfortunate circumstances. Now I'm looking for something with very, very high single target damage output, and I'd appreciate any advice.
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Apr 14, 2015 01:17
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A friend is possibly making a techslinger+guntank to replace their ridiculous transforming barbarian (not sure what archetype that is but drat) in Iron Gods. How crazy is this going to be?
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Apr 14, 2015 02:02
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Globofglob posted:Ok, I'm going to have to roll a new character soon in pathfinder. Lvl Cap is 10, but everyone is min-maxed to hell and back. It's sort of the point. Does anyone know of some good completely overpowered lvl 10 builds? Globofglob posted:My lvl 10 Samsaran conjuration wizard died to unfortunate circumstances. Now I'm looking for something with very, very high single target damage output, and I'd appreciate any advice.
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Apr 14, 2015 02:27
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Globofglob posted:Ok, I'm going to have to roll a new character soon in pathfinder. Lvl Cap is 10, but everyone is min-maxed to hell and back. It's sort of the point. Does anyone know of some good completely overpowered lvl 10 builds? I've looked at Synthesist Summoner, but everything we fight has DR, which is bad for multiple attacks. Edit: They're also durable as hell.
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Apr 14, 2015 02:37
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Globofglob posted:Ok, I'm going to have to roll a new character soon in pathfinder. Lvl Cap is 10, but everyone is min-maxed to hell and back. It's sort of the point. Does anyone know of some good completely overpowered lvl 10 builds? I've looked at Synthesist Summoner, but everything we fight has DR, which is bad for multiple attacks. Full Caster 10
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Apr 14, 2015 02:38
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It depends on how available advanced firearms and advanced technology is. Without advanced firearms he will need to carry a truly absurd number of guns to keep up in damage. Like just cover his coat in pistols that he drops after one shot and only reloads at the end of combat. With advanced firearms he will be among the highest damage dealers possible along with paladin archers and charging barbarians. If he gets high tech stuff without needing to pay for it he's gonna be truly absurd, but if he needs to pay market price for them his techslinger abilities will be mostly useless because tech items are grotesquely overpriced. As for an overpowered build what do you want to do? Damage, battlefield control, etc?
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Apr 14, 2015 02:48
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PresidentBeard posted:It depends on how available advanced firearms and advanced technology is. Without advanced firearms he will need to carry a truly absurd number of guns to keep up in damage. Like just cover his coat in pistols that he drops after one shot and only reloads at the end of combat. With advanced firearms he will be among the highest damage dealers possible along with paladin archers and charging barbarians. If he gets high tech stuff without needing to pay for it he's gonna be truly absurd, but if he needs to pay market price for them his techslinger abilities will be mostly useless because tech items are grotesquely overpriced. I think tech is going to be pretty common in the campaign I am in. We already have a timeworn stungun and I think the DM is letting him start with a timeworn laser pistol since we're a few levels in. Someone else says that a techslinger can somehow get hundreds of damage at level 6 or so. This is gonna be interesting. 
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Apr 14, 2015 03:08
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Hmm. I've got a brawler in my group's Iron Gods game with the Pummeling Strike feat tree and Power Attack. She and our group's barbarian hit like dump trucks (he's got a +1 Vicious Keen Chainsaw, I've got a +2 Amulet of Mighty Fists. We fight constructs.)
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Apr 14, 2015 03:12
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Oh right you said Iron Gods. So mild spoilers there is a +1 chainsaw in module two of Iron Gods. The chainsaw is bare-none the best, non-mounted, two handed weapon in the game provided you can recharge it semi-regularly. If your party has it play a paladin, cavalier, or barbarian you should be set for most of the rest of the campaign. Just grab the feats power attack, furious focus, cornugon smash, and hurtful. Use your starting gold to enchant it the chainsaw with cruel. Assuming a point buy that allows maxed strength you should be dealing 37 damage per hit before class abilities or further magic items., and each hit has the chance to inflict shaken and sickened. If you are a barbarian raging this damage jumps to 40 damage per hit. Assuming that same barbarian has taken the beast totem powers he gets to full attack on almost every attack thanks to pounce and gets two claw attacks that deal around 17 damage per hit so a usual average of 114 damage per round, assuming no other items. You could easily make this much much higher with mounted charge shenanigans but that's a bit silly and will lead to your GM separating you from your horse all the time. Also if you make it keen a chainsaw as a critical range of 15-20 meaning you'll crit on about 30% of attacks.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:31
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Nihilarian posted:Archer Paladin is pretty good for damage and doesn't have to deal with DR. If all you want is damage you could do worse. Yeah, if you don't want to go the full caster route, archer paladins are incredibly, incredibly good as long as you're fighting smitable targets relatively often. Archery's main weakness is lowish per hit damage, and smite completely changes that. Add to that all of the paladin's other bonuses and immunities and you've got a powerhouse character. Not overpowered, but very powerful still.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:58
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Hey I'm going to be in a Curse of the Crimson throne game. Is Paladin going to be any good in that or should I go inquisitor instead?
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Apr 14, 2015 04:01
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Paladin will be fine as long as your group dynamics allow for it. There are a lot of smitable foes and most of the most dangerous encounters are double-smite-damage ones (evil outsiders, evil undead, and/or evil dragons).
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Apr 14, 2015 04:14
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Zurai posted:Paladin will be fine as long as your group dynamics allow for it. There are a lot of smitable foes and most of the most dangerous encounters are double-smite-damage ones (evil outsiders, evil undead, and/or evil dragons). Yeah I have no plans on being a tight rear end paladin or anything and mostly being chill 'come back to my city and bring justice!' totally playing the not-arrow.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:30
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For an overpowered build, there is already a party of a smite melee Paladin, a Slayer with an obscenely high stealth score, and the third is a magus with obscene amounts of damage and a focus on snowball. I need to make something that has a distinct chance of killing one of them, but has the stats of a level 10 PC. It's a spy in the ranks type of thing, but it's going on for a few sessions to make it more believable, and the DM doesn't want me to show my hand early by doing things a PC can't do. I was thinking Brawler with the feat line up to bonebreaker, because neckbreaker requires 12 ranks in a lvl 10 max game, or a Ninja. Globofglob fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 07:33
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OK. Would someone tell me who on earth thought the Celestial Dire Tiger was a sensible thing to give a level 11 PC as a choice of Summons? Or who thought that the Summoner as a class was a good idea at all? 5 attacks at +20 to hit, and each doing 25+ points of damage on a Smite. Oh, and a free grab on the attacks. You aren't meant to one-shot CR12 monsters as a single L11 PC using a fraction of your resources. Edit: A Level 10 Summoner is pretty overpowered. And at level 11 (with the Tiger I've just mentioned) becomes ludicrous.
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Apr 14, 2015 13:50
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neonchameleon posted:OK. Would someone tell me who on earth thought the Celestial Dire Tiger was a sensible thing to give a level 11 PC as a choice of Summons? Or who thought that the Summoner as a class was a good idea at all? 5 attacks at +20 to hit, and each doing 25+ points of damage on a Smite. Oh, and a free grab on the attacks. You aren't meant to one-shot CR12 monsters as a single L11 PC using a fraction of your resources. If you can't do that in this broken-rear end game, your poo poo is severely underpowered.
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Apr 14, 2015 14:12
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Encounters become weird coin flip scenarios past a certain level. It's either going to be an enemy or a PC that gets one-shot and dropped. At CR12 you're in the realm of save-versus-death effects so a summoned monster with crazy melee abilities shouldn't be so surprising.
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Apr 14, 2015 14:18
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HatfulOfHollow posted:Encounters become weird coin flip scenarios past a certain level. It's either going to be an enemy or a PC that gets one-shot and dropped. All the more reason to end one's campaigns around Level 12. Partly due to this, partly due to the original 3.X playtesters not bothering with levels after this, and partly because a lot of the core dynamics of the game change past this point.
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Apr 14, 2015 19:14
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Libertad! posted:All the more reason to end one's campaigns around Level 12. Partly due to this, partly due to the original 3.X playtesters not bothering with levels after this, and partly because a lot of the core dynamics of the game change past this point. Isn't this why PFS also stops at lvl 12?
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Apr 14, 2015 21:16
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Transient People posted:If you can't do that in this broken-rear end game, your poo poo is severely underpowered. Part of it is that the second most powerful PC is a well made Ranger and part of it is everyone has a level/2 bonus to all saves as a house rule to cut down on the one shots. (Yes my Summoner is severely underpowered. I've been trying to keep them that way. We have a monk in the party...)
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Apr 14, 2015 22:17
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Transient People posted:If you can't do that in this broken-rear end game, your poo poo is severely underpowered. uh huh. My mad bomber alchemist can do that without breaking a sweat, and the party wizard and druid could probably do worse. Anyway, has anyone shelled out the  for the Pathfinder Unchained PDF? I'm kinda tempted to do it myself but my DM will probably bar it anyway.  From the Paizo boards, it does sound like Unchained is bringing a lot of ideas from The D&D Edition That Did Not Happen to Pathfinder: Inherent bonuses to replace the need to constantly upgrade the Big Six! Magic items that level up with you! Variant multiclassing that allows you to take a few abilities from another class instead of having to take everything! Expendable resources for martial characters! (edited to add: Apparently it won't be available for PDF purchase for another couple weeks. Paizo subscribers are getting early copies though.) Selachian fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Apr 15, 2015 |
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Apr 15, 2015 18:53
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Yeah after looking at your post I looked it up, sounds like it is available to subscribers right now, and available everywhere on the 29th. Also some stuff people have mentioned: quote:Barbarian Rage became 2 temp hp per level and untyped hit/dmg bonus quote:Should note Unchained Monk is now d10 HD and 2 good saves (Fort/Ref - Will is now poor) quote:>class whos theme is meditating and putting mind over matter to resist all kindsa poo poo quote:If it makes it better: quote:That's 1 less attack quote:That's in addition to TWF. I have to say what at this, I don't remember PF Monks being able to combine unarmed with TWF. Ah. quote:Yup, but at a higher success rate: quote:Well I don't have the book. Just going by what I get told/can find. So far we have: quote:Most class abilities are Ki Powers now. Ki Powers basically being Qinggong Monk. So you have select them. This means that you can't use most archetypes with it. For example: >Sorcerers do grant their bloodline and bloodline powers. quote:Eldritch Guardian/Mutation Warrior/Martial Master Fighter with Sorcerer VMC for Orc Bloodline? Could be fun. Does VMC actually grant caster levels and spells? quote:So here's some more info on Stamina: quote:>Untyped Rage Bonus quote:so is it time for wildshape Fighters, Barbarians and nature Paladins? Personally curious about throwing that on the new monk. quote:This is an interesting question. What martial class would benefit most from being able to wildshape? Probably fighters, right? Wildshaping into a tiger or allosaurus or poo poo? You can take Natural Weapons for weapon training, can't you...? quote:Yeah, Fighters will probably go up a tier with all the multiclassing. Brawlers will probably be good too as its a free size change and Martial versatility can make up for the feats, a ranger with a natural weapon style will probably be good along with slayers that choose them as talents. If you wildshape into stuff like giants or apes any twohanded build will be great. And that thread mostly devolved into talk that had nothing to do with Unchained. EDIT: Okay another thread with mostly similar info, but some more: quote:What's the cost of variant multiclassing? quote:Half your feat. So no feat at level 3,7,11,15,19 quote:One ki power gives flight. quote:Here's the VMC for gunslingers: quote:Somewhat. There are still a bunch of things I am unsure of. Especially with how poisons etc. work now. But to fix some things on it: quote:>Full caster vmc great, martial VMC bad quote:>Witch gives cantrips, familiar, and hexes quote:Druid gives you an ac and loving WILDSHAPE? quote:Half-Orc Crossblooded Orc/Draconic Sorcerer VMC Admixture Wizard. I call him the Master Blaster. Is it totally suboptimal? Yes. But it's the 9th level caster with the most brutal dakka of all. quote:I wonder if we'll see any Drow Arcanist (Occultist) VMC Divination Wizard with the Blasphemous Covenant alternate racial trait. quote:>Summon Monster SLA was untouched quote:PFS thinks the strongers part of a Summoner is the Eidolon, that's why they think Synth Summoner is the strongest poo poo ever. quote:At the stage pathfinder is at (ridiculous content and complete super hero brokenness), this book should have been 100% buffs across all classes that struggle at high level play. quote:>Hey guys, let's write a book dedicated entirely to Martials! Yeah the threads sometimes get sidetracked. quote:Both reduce the recommended WBL. quote:Hot drat, thats means you can do MoMS with Sacred fist and a variant multiclass in druid and become a god. Ryuujin fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 15, 2015 |
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Apr 15, 2015 20:44
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So, after a long hiatus, I've got my Pathfinder table getting together again. Two months ago, I was struggling to get three players together. Now I have twelve, with three more asking me to run a game. So.... crap. Five are brand new to tabletop role playing, but they're all players that I'd really like to play with. I'll be discussing it with the party at large this Friday, hopefully with a mind to splitting up the party into multiple groups. Just wanted to fish for ideas on how to handle this.
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Apr 15, 2015 20:54
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So does Unchained work with PFS? Because if it doesn't then most tables are going to kiss it goodbye and GMs are going to consider it 3rd party or optional.
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Apr 15, 2015 21:43
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B.B. Rodriguez posted:So does Unchained work with PFS? Because if it doesn't then most tables are going to kiss it goodbye and GMs are going to consider it 3rd party or optional. They haven't said anything official about what is allowed yet.
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Apr 15, 2015 21:47
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What's the cost to do that variant multiclassing?
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Apr 15, 2015 21:51
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PFS legality is always determined a few weeks or months after release.
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Apr 15, 2015 22:07
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Yukari posted:What's the cost to do that variant multiclassing? quote:Half your feat. So no feat at level 3,7,11,15,19
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Apr 15, 2015 22:08
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That variant multiclassing has so much potential for some absurdly overpowered builds.
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Apr 15, 2015 22:11
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That stamina stuff sounds kind of half added.
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Apr 15, 2015 22:15
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quote:VMC Wild Shape Well there goes the dream of playing a non spellcasting Wild Shaper.
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Apr 15, 2015 22:18
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quote:At the stage pathfinder is at (ridiculous content and complete super hero brokenness), this book should have been 100% buffs across all classes that struggle at high level play. Repost this forever.
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Apr 16, 2015 02:20
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Seriously, I was really looking forward to the variant multiclass druid for Wild Shape on a non spellcaster until I learned how late you get it and how neutered compared to the actual Druid it was. Was really hoping for a non caster wild shape character when the hybrid class book was first mentioned, but nope. No non caster shapesgifters. Except for the rare 3rd party class that is either worse than the wild shape druid at it, or that has a questionable feature that overshadows the shapeshifting part and potentially breaks the class.
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Apr 16, 2015 02:29
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quote:nerfing anything - particularly the best spell-less class wait what, did i miss something
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Apr 16, 2015 02:33
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