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wheez the roux
Aug 2, 2004
THEY SHOULD'VE GIVEN IT TO LYNCH

Death to the Seahawks. Death to Seahawks posters.

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

The drive is a Plextor and the enclosure was whatever my USB 2.0 LG DVD drive came in. I just swapped the Blu-Ray drive in for it. I don't think the enclosure brand matters too much since you're not as worried about drive idle settings and such that you might have with a hard drive.

edit: that seems like a good combination. You probably won't hit the 10x read speed of that drive, but that's okay. It's been a while since I ripped anything, but I don't remember a BD taking overnight. Even 1x should only take as long as the movie. My drive's a few years old and only does 2x.

I'm factoring in time for handbrake to compress it into a high quality 1080p rip, though I still base my estimates on my old-rear end '07 2.2ghz MBP; my new rMBP should tear through it quite a bit faster. Stoked.

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Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Oh right. Yeah if you're factoring in compression then it'll take a while. It's a three step process for me: MakeMKV to rip the disc, Handbrake to encode, and then Identify 2 for the tags, cover art, etc.

jink
May 8, 2002

Drop it like it's Hot.
Taco Defender

Mercurius posted:

Looks like I'm getting confused about active DP converters and I'm thinking of active mini-DP to Dual-Link DVI connectors. What's on the other end of the active Dual Link DVI converter that you already have?

Also, this appears to specifically be an issue with Dell monitors (and might just be Ultrasharps) because they don't like the way that OS X sends the mini-DP signal over Thunderbolt. You'd probably find if you tested it with an older Mac that doesn't have Thunderbolt port and only has mini-DP that it'd work okay, not that it really helps.

The Apple converter I am using is connected to a DELL U3011. The converter has plenty of negative reviews. Maybe a Startech will work better? It has negative reviews as well. Is there one you are familiar with?

I don't doubt my DELL is misunderstanding the signals as you suggest. I never hear of these problems on any other systems, however. Why is Apple the company that can't correctly handle 2560x1600 screens? They used to make one!

japtor
Oct 28, 2005

etalian posted:

Yup all the new minis go with intel 4000 integrated graphics, so at least graphics and processor-wise it's not much different than the MBA.
Same graphics but better processors on the mini, low end mini's CPU is similar to the top end MBA's, then the mini quad options on the high end. Also double the max RAM (16 vs 8) if that matters.

Shmoogy posted:

Yeah people have found the commands to create the fusion drive-- but they strongly recommend against using an external drive as the second one. It sounded like if it gets disconnected for any reason, it might make you have to reformat or something. For a desktop, you can probably make it safe enough if you have a battery pack so that you can safely turn everything off in an emergency, along with securing the cables well enough.
Basically just think of it like a RAID striped volume. It apparently works at the block (rather than file) level, so if poo poo breaks on one drive it'll likely all go to hell. Plus outside of the stuff some hackers/tweakers are figuring out, there's pretty much nothing else to support it other than Disk Utility either repairing or failing and needing to wipe the volume.

ratbert90 posted:

So I have the core I7 6,2 mini, and holy poo poo this thing is quick.
I am getting 16Gigs of ram and a 256gig mushkin chronos for Christmas, and can't wait to see how fast this thing goes.

Oh yeah, and I can replace both of those things without having to tear down 90% of the unit. Suck it new Imac owners. :smug:
To be fair, tearing down 90% of the mini would only be like 10% of the work for an iMac :v:

BGrifter posted:

I've been reading encouraging things about getting tolerable framerates on things like WoW, Diablo 3 and others at 1920x1080. I still find it hard to wrap my head around the idea that integrated graphics could be anything but terrible though. I'd hate to buy one and still have to use my clunky old 15.6" laptop (i3-370m Radeon 5650) for the rare PC gaming I do.
Well I guess check out this stuff:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-5650.23697.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4000.69168.0.html

...or wait a year or so for Haswell which should provide a big jump in the integrated GPU performance.

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

Oh right. Yeah if you're factoring in compression then it'll take a while. It's a three step process for me: MakeMKV to rip the disc, Handbrake to encode, and then Identify 2 for the tags, cover art, etc.
Same here, I haven't done it in a while but I ripped a few discs first then queued them all up for a big rear end encode run rather than do one at a time. Using a USB 2 drive it took ~30 minutes to rip per movie I think.

(Then the painfully long encode process, where's the third party Quick Sync API :negative:)

Mercurius
May 4, 2004

Amp it up.

jink posted:

The Apple converter I am using is connected to a DELL U3011. The converter has plenty of negative reviews. Maybe a Startech will work better? It has negative reviews as well. Is there one you are familiar with?

I don't doubt my DELL is misunderstanding the signals as you suggest. I never hear of these problems on any other systems, however. Why is Apple the company that can't correctly handle 2560x1600 screens? They used to make one!
I think Kanex has a good reputation for active converters and they produce one specifically designed for 30 inch monitors which Amazon has for $80.

BGrifter
Mar 16, 2007

Winner of Something Awful PS5 thread's Posting Excellence Award June 2022

Congratulations!

japtor posted:


...or wait a year or so for Haswell which should provide a big jump in the integrated GPU performance.

...plus another year for Apple to bother refreshing the Mac Mini. :sigh: Probably better to just continue avoiding PC gaming and enjoy the $599 Mini in the spring.

japtor
Oct 28, 2005

BGrifter posted:

...plus another year for Apple to bother refreshing the Mac Mini. :sigh: Probably better to just continue avoiding PC gaming and enjoy the $599 Mini in the spring.
It's been consistently kept up to date since 2009! Granted by "up to date" I mean lagging behind by an arbitrary number of weeks/months behind the laptop updates (...which come arbitrarily quickly or way slowly after Intel's ship dates), but they haven't let it drop behind like the Mac Pro ever since that 2009 update.

I'm holding out for that "something really great" next year. Obviously Tim's gonna do what Steve couldn't, make a successful cube shaped machine :colbert:

lowercasejames
Jan 25, 2005

Yee hee.
Not sure where to put this... but I've ordered quite a bit of hardware from Apple and never experienced this.

Ordered my new iMac on the release date, used my check card to pay the amount in full. Minutes later, after approval, the amount hit my account. It was pending until it shipped late last week, when it then went from pending to an actual debit from my account. Cool.

This morning, I check my account, and I've got quite a bit more money than yesterday. In fact, I've got enough money for another new iMac. The new balance is exactly what it would be if I never ordered the thing in the first place. I look closer. The charge is gone. There's no refund, it's just... gone.

I check Apple. All is still good. The card's last four, and the original amount, are both still there. I track the shipment. It's due to arrive this Friday.

I am going to give it 24 hours then I guess I call... my bank? Or Apple? Has anyone run into this before?

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009

lowercasejames posted:

Not sure where to put this... but I've ordered quite a bit of hardware from Apple and never experienced this

...

I am going to give it 24 hours then I guess I call... my bank? Or Apple? Has anyone run into this before?

Anecdote ahoy, but this happened to a friend of mine a few years back - he cancelled the broken/failed order and placed a new one for an upgraded model at the same time over the phone. Two weeks later, both the original glitches order and the newer one arrive at the same time.

He called and they gave dates for the incorrectly delivered one to be collected three times but nobody ever came. Six months later he sold it on eBay, unopened for considerable profit.

I hated him for weeks.

clockworx
Oct 15, 2005
The Internet Whore made me buy this account

lowercasejames posted:

Not sure where to put this... but I've ordered quite a bit of hardware from Apple and never experienced this.

Ordered my new iMac on the release date, used my check card to pay the amount in full. Minutes later, after approval, the amount hit my account. It was pending until it shipped late last week, when it then went from pending to an actual debit from my account. Cool.

This morning, I check my account, and I've got quite a bit more money than yesterday. In fact, I've got enough money for another new iMac. The new balance is exactly what it would be if I never ordered the thing in the first place. I look closer. The charge is gone. There's no refund, it's just... gone.

I check Apple. All is still good. The card's last four, and the original amount, are both still there. I track the shipment. It's due to arrive this Friday.

I am going to give it 24 hours then I guess I call... my bank? Or Apple? Has anyone run into this before?

Ethics aside, I believe legally it is yours once it arrives, though they may still have a right to charge you at a later point. You can't get in trouble for keeping it though. Call them if you insist on paying, and if you don't, I'd be sure to leave that money in your account in case they charge you at a later date.

(Hopefully I'm not wrong on this, but I believe the legal reason is to prevent shady business from sending out products and then demanding payment afterwards once it arrives. I believe it's also why companies will also snag "price mistakes" that ended up being shipped and are en route - they can recall it until it arrives, but once it does, it's yours.)

clockworx fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Dec 5, 2012

lowercasejames
Jan 25, 2005

Yee hee.

clockworx posted:

Ethics aside, I believe legally it is yours once it arrives, though they may still have a right to charge you at a later point. You can't get in trouble for keeping it though. Call them if you insist on paying, and if you don't, I'd be sure to leave that money in your account in case they charge you at a later date.

(Hopefully I'm not wrong on this, but I believe the legal reason is to prevent shady business from sending out products and then demanding payment afterwards once it arrives. I believe it's also why companies will also snag "price mistakes" that ended up being shipped and are en route - they can recall it until it arrives, but once it does, it's yours.)

I intend to pay for it, or at least call Apple and check to make sure I'm listed as paid in full. This happened with a hotel charge in Atlanta once, where they charged my card, then it went away after I checked out. A month later I called and they had me listed as paid in full, at which point I requested a receipt for records.

Free iMac? Not likely. Not my luck.

I guess the best news so far is that they seem to be shipping earlier than the originally stated 7-10 days. Mine shipped 3 days after ordering it.

Anyway thanks for the advice.

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

jink posted:

Except the fact that the HDMI port is single link DVI only.


Then there's the argument "get a monitor that supports DisplayPort!"... Well, Apple won't output RGB to those monitors (only RGB to Apple Cinema Displays). My DELL U3011 only receives YCbCr, which I can't calibrate and the colors are absolute poo poo. The rMBP under Windows? RGB all day long.

Then there's the fact that dual link DVI monitors can't be rotated under Displays without being forced to a lower resolution. (My Radar was closed as a Duplicate).


What the gently caress, Apple.

So wait. I need a PC around and I've been using my 2009 iMac for a monitor for a while now. Works great.
Come upgrade time, the new iMacs do not allow video in via DisplayPort and I don't see Thunderbolt video becoming a big thing in the PC world anytime soon.
My plan was to switch to a high-spec Mac Mini and a big ole Ultrasharp from Dell. Your statement is making me anxious, so what's the right thing to do at this point?

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

AlternateAccount posted:

So wait. I need a PC around and I've been using my 2009 iMac for a monitor for a while now. Works great.
Come upgrade time, the new iMacs do not allow video in via DisplayPort and I don't see Thunderbolt video becoming a big thing in the PC world anytime soon.
My plan was to switch to a high-spec Mac Mini and a big ole Ultrasharp from Dell. Your statement is making me anxious, so what's the right thing to do at this point?

Wait, couldn't you put a windows partition on that (or on a new- if you want to do that) iMac and be done with it? The base 27" will run circles around the mini just on the GPU alone- and it'll come with a less glossy, (supposedly) pre-calibrated Cinema Display built in for roughly the price of a top mini+ Ultrasharp.

trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Dec 5, 2012

Xenomorph
Jun 13, 2001
2010 MacBook Pro, 15", anti-glare screen (1680x1050), 50% brightness.
CPU: Core i7 (Dual Core) @ 2.66 GHz

Process list (when the computer sits idle):
Firefox: ~13% CPU
kernel_task ~12% CPU
WindowServer ~10% CPU

Battery at 91% of original design (6312 mAh of 6900 mAh). I've let it drop to 0% and charge to 100% several times. It is 30 months old, and has gone through 194 load cycles.

I get ~2 hours and 40 minutes of usage from a full charge (100% -> 0%).
It takes about ~2 hours and 40 minutes to charge back to 100%
I can basically drop to 0% battery twice a day while at work.

Is this typical battery life for this type of system? I can just sit here and look at cat pictures and get no where near the "8-9 hours" I've heard advertised.

Neurophonic
May 2, 2009

Xenomorph posted:

2010 MacBook Pro, 15", anti-glare screen (1680x1050), 50% brightness.
CPU: Core i7 (Dual Core) @ 2.66 GHz

Process list (when the computer sits idle):
Firefox: ~13% CPU
kernel_task ~12% CPU
WindowServer ~10% CPU

Battery at 91% of original design (6312 mAh of 6900 mAh). I've let it drop to 0% and charge to 100% several times. It is 30 months old, and has gone through 194 load cycles.

I get ~2 hours and 40 minutes of usage from a full charge (100% -> 0%).
It takes about ~2 hours and 40 minutes to charge back to 100%
I can basically drop to 0% battery twice a day while at work.

Is this typical battery life for this type of system? I can just sit here and look at cat pictures and get no where near the "8-9 hours" I've heard advertised.

Is anything doing a lot of hard disk writes or reads in the background?

oversteer
Jun 6, 2005

Seems a lot of horsepower for Firefox to be using.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Use gfxCardStatus to force the Intel GPU. The NVIDIA GPU on that model destroys battery life, especially on a 2 year-old battery.

Xenomorph
Jun 13, 2001

Neurophonic posted:

Is anything doing a lot of hard disk writes or reads in the background?

Nothing. However, I do have an SSD. All disk activity is idle (reads & writes @ 0, according to Activity Monitor).

oversteer posted:

Seems a lot of horsepower for Firefox to be using.

I have something called "FlashFrozen" that is supposed to tell me if Flash is loaded (so I can kill it if it hurts performance). However, I have nothing going on in Firefox. Just sitting there, it uses a bunch of CPU.

Extensions:
Omnibar, NoScript, Adblock (no lists loaded, only custom filters), Adblock Element Hiding Helper, Status-4-Evar
Add-ons/plugins:
Flash, Java, LogMeIn

I'll try restarting it in Safe-mode to see if there is a change.

Edit: In "safe mode", all plugins disabled, CPU usage drops to sub 1% when idle. I guess it's something I have installed.

Double-edit: disabling just "Status-4-evar" drops the CPU usage. I guess it's the culprit.

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

Use gfxCardStatus to force the Intel GPU. The NVIDIA GPU on that model destroys battery life, especially on a 2 year-old battery.

The NVidia GPU was on. It said it could not disable it because I had an external monitor plugged in (not in use). I unplugged it, the system switched back to Intel, and "kernel_task" even dropped from 12% CPU to 2% CPU as well.

Xenomorph fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Dec 5, 2012

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

Electric Bugaloo posted:

Wait, couldn't you put a windows partition on that (or on a new- if you want to do that) iMac and be done with it? The base 27" will run circles around the mini just on the GPU alone- and it'll come with a less glossy, (supposedly) pre-calibrated Cinema Display built in for roughly the price of a top mini+ Ultrasharp.

No, I have a much higher powered PC for gaming and such that the iMac can't even approach. Basically the PC is for gaming and the Mac is for everything else, but I don't want to go through the hassle of having two different expensive displays.

edit: If I could get an iMac that could perform as well as my PC, I'd just do that, but *Apple*

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

Xenomorph posted:

Double-edit: disabling just "Status-4-evar" drops the CPU usage. I guess it's the culprit.
I was going to say, use Safari or disable your browser add-ons/plugins.

If your systemuiserver task is taking more than just a couple %, you might have some menubar app that's sucking up resources, like a fast-refreshing CPU/network indicator.

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

AlternateAccount posted:

No, I have a much higher powered PC for gaming and such that the iMac can't even approach. Basically the PC is for gaming and the Mac is for everything else, but I don't want to go through the hassle of having two different expensive displays.

edit: If I could get an iMac that could perform as well as my PC, I'd just do that, but *Apple*

If you were ok with getting into $2200 territory I'm pretty sure the GTX 680MX with 2 gigs of VRAM that's an option on the new top 27" could handle any recent and foreseeable gaming challenges you might throw at it. It should be able to play anything currently out at max settings without breaking much of a sweat.

Take a gander through the BTO options on the Apple site and see if you couldn't be totally fine with some of the cheaper options too.

Hell, dig back a few weeks in this thread and you'll find that there was a minor spat over whether a mid-tier 2011 one could handle Skyrim at max settings comfortably (the consensus was that it could but YMMV).

I don't know what "gaming and such" things your PC can do that some iMac somewhere couldn't touch- it's just a question of how much you're willing to pay for performance.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

AlternateAccount posted:

No, I have a much higher powered PC for gaming and such that the iMac can't even approach. Basically the PC is for gaming and the Mac is for everything else, but I don't want to go through the hassle of having two different expensive displays
This is why someone will have to take my mid-2010 27" iMac from my cold, dead hands. MiniDP input means I can just use it as a display for my good gamin' rig.

Mercurius
May 4, 2004

Amp it up.

AlternateAccount posted:

So wait. I need a PC around and I've been using my 2009 iMac for a monitor for a while now. Works great.
Come upgrade time, the new iMacs do not allow video in via DisplayPort and I don't see Thunderbolt video becoming a big thing in the PC world anytime soon.
My plan was to switch to a high-spec Mac Mini and a big ole Ultrasharp from Dell. Your statement is making me anxious, so what's the right thing to do at this point?
You'll be pleased to know that Intel, ASUS, etc have been adding Thunderbolt ports as an option on some of their recent high-end motherboards. Anandtech were able to use Virtu to route the output from the full graphics card through the Thunderbolt port on the motherboard to an Apple Thunderbolt Display, so when you next upgrade your PC if you get one of those you should be set for when you upgrade your iMac.

Alternatively, you could do as SWSP is going to do and just keep your current iMac and use it as a monitor with your PC and have the other iMac sitting next to it for dual 27"s.

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

Electric Bugaloo posted:

I don't know what "gaming and such" things your PC can do that some iMac somewhere couldn't touch- it's just a question of how much you're willing to pay for performance.

Well, a 680MX is pretty respectable, no doubt. But I really prefer the following benefits:
1> Having a separate PC for a faster upgrade cycle. Outside of maybe RAM or adding external storage, I am perfectly fine keeping an iMac "as is" for 5+ years. I prefer to make smaller incremental upgrades to my PC for gaming purposes more often.
2> Being able to step on a button I put on the floor and turn my PC on and do whatever while OSX just sits and still does its thing in the background is really nice. No dual-booting or bootcamp or virtualization fuckery required.

Being able to use the iMac as a monitor is really a best of both worlds scenario. I feel like, especially with this current iMac lineup, the gap is closing and in another generation or two I might be able to comfortably ditch having a separate PC forever, but it's not time yet.

Beaucoup Cuckoo
Apr 10, 2008

Uncle Seymour wants you to eat your beans.

Electric Bugaloo posted:

Hell, dig back a few weeks in this thread and you'll find that there was a minor spat over whether a mid-tier 2011 one could handle Skyrim at max settings comfortably (the consensus was that it could but YMMV).

It could. Deciding whether or not I wanted to do it was just up to how much I cared about the odd overheat if I wasn't paying attention to how many socks I wanted to poop.

lunar detritus
May 6, 2009


Electric Bugaloo posted:

Hell, dig back a few weeks in this thread and you'll find that there was a minor spat over whether a mid-tier 2011 one could handle Skyrim at max settings comfortably (the consensus was that it could but YMMV).

Related to this, would an Air 13" be able to run Skyrim? I only have 128GB so I'm kinda wary of installing bootcamp and then finding out it doesn't run at all.

Beaucoup Cuckoo
Apr 10, 2008

Uncle Seymour wants you to eat your beans.
Yeah, I think your bigger concern is the amount of space you'll have left on your HD after installing Skyrim and a partition. It'll probably be pretty choppy.

Anveo
Mar 23, 2002

AlternateAccount posted:

So wait. I need a PC around and I've been using my 2009 iMac for a monitor for a while now. Works great.
Come upgrade time, the new iMacs do not allow video in via DisplayPort and I don't see Thunderbolt video becoming a big thing in the PC world anytime soon.
My plan was to switch to a high-spec Mac Mini and a big ole Ultrasharp from Dell. Your statement is making me anxious, so what's the right thing to do at this point?

I was basically in a similar situation where I use my Air for everything except gaming. I ended up getting the Dell u3011 which I hookup to my Macbook Air 2011 via DisplayPort and my PC via a dual link DVI cable (included with monitor, it's needed to do 2560 x 1600). The PC has an ATI 6970 w/ i5 2500k and even the newest games generally run great at full resolution / settings. Once or twice I've dropped down to 1920x1200 and the quality is perfectly playable.

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

Anveo posted:

I was basically in a similar situation where I use my Air for everything except gaming. I ended up getting the Dell u3011 which I hookup to my Macbook Air 2011 via DisplayPort and my PC via a dual link DVI cable (included with monitor, it's needed to do 2560 x 1600). The PC has an ATI 6970 w/ i5 2500k and even the newest games generally run great at full resolution / settings. Once or twice I've dropped down to 1920x1200 and the quality is perfectly playable.

Yeah I've already got the great PC. This might be what I end up doing. I kinda hate having a laptop sitting on my desk 95% of the time that I never take anywhere, but eh.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

AlternateAccount posted:

Yeah I've already got the great PC. This might be what I end up doing. I kinda hate having a laptop sitting on my desk 95% of the time that I never take anywhere, but eh.

And the 13" MBA is pretty much the best in terms of convenience due to the light weight and small form factor.

And for most basic tasks such as web browsing or steaming videos there's really not a big delta in performance to the more expensive or comparable cost MBP models. And in many cases it' even better since the "old" clunky MBP doesn't even come with a SSD in the standard model.

The Retina MBP did slim down the dimensions/weight but are a bit too expensive right now to be a cost effective replacement for the MBA.

iostream.h
Mar 14, 2006
I want your happy place to slap you as it flies by.

Another dumb question, is the HD in the non-Retina 13" MBP upgradeable? I've got a nice SSD I'd like to put in one.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

iostream.h posted:

Another dumb question, is the HD in the non-Retina 13" MBP upgradeable? I've got a nice SSD I'd like to put in one.

Yes, as is the RAM. You can stick any 2.5" SSD in that you want.

iostream.h
Mar 14, 2006
I want your happy place to slap you as it flies by.

Bob Morales posted:

Yes, as is the RAM. You can stick any 2.5" SSD in that you want.
Great, thank you for that.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

iostream.h posted:

Great, thank you for that.

Another big advantage of the non-retina MBP is it's somewhat easy to upgrade/repair assuming you had the right tools.

The rMPG were designed to discourage people from doing upgrades by gluing the batteries and display screen to the chassis making it risky to remove things without doing big damage to the hardware.

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!
Dun-Dun-Duuuuun

MacRumors posted:

NBC reports that Apple CEO Tim Cook will announce during an interview airing on Rock Center tonight that the company is bringing some Mac production back to the United States.
In an exclusive interview with Brian Williams airing tonight at 10pm/9c on NBC’s “Rock Center,” Apple CEO Tim Cook announced one of the existing Mac lines will be manufactured exclusively in the United States next year. Mac fans will have to wait to see which Mac line it will be because Apple, widely known for its secrecy, left it vague. Cook's announcement may or may not confirm recent rumors in the blogosphere sparked by iMacs inscribed in the back with “Assembled in USA.”

“We’ve been working for years on doing more and more in the United States,” Cook told Williams.

Cook has more to say about the effort in a lengthy interview with Bloomberg Businessweek, noting that Apple is spending about $100 million on the effort.

"It’s not known well that the engine for the iPhone and iPad is made in the U.S., and many of these are also exported—the engine, the processor. The glass is made in Kentucky. And next year we are going to bring some production to the U.S. on the Mac. We’ve been working on this for a long time, and we were getting closer to it. It will happen in 2013. We’re really proud of it. We could have quickly maybe done just assembly, but it’s broader because we wanted to do something more substantial. So we’ll literally invest over $100 million. This doesn’t mean that Apple will do it ourselves, but we’ll be working with people, and we’ll be investing our money."

Cook also addresses several of the challenges Apple faces in bringing production back to the United States, pointing out once again that the educational system is not producing the expertise needed for major manufacturing in consumer electronics, but he hopes that Apple's effort can help spur progress in that area.

$100 million is a drop in the bucket as far as Apple's coffers are concerned, but at least it's something. This'll probably generate a bit of positive buzz for the company too.

I'd already heard about some of the new iMacs being at least partially assembled in the States (from what I understand, they're all BTO optioned- in which case I'd bet it's less "Made in America" and more like "90% ready iMac is shipped from China with the screen off, guy in 'Murrica pops in RAM/GPU/Fusion drive and glues the screen on).

If I had to bet money on which line will be "exclusively manufactured in the US" next year, I'd say it's that new iteration of the Mac Pro everyone's waiting for. I can't really see Apple taking any of the notebook/iMac/iOS production here in any serious way. The components are all stuck behind glass or bolted into a unibody, and it just makes more sense to cram all of the parts together in Asia, where the vast majority of them are made anyway, and ship the finished devices over from there- not to mention it's a lot cheaper.

On the other hand, the new Mac Pro isn't (probably) going to come with an integrated display. It's going to sell and be produced in exponentially fewer numbers than any other Apple product, and with a lot more BTO options and iterations. A lot of the internal components (assuming they stick to desktop-spec components like GPUs) will probably be slot-in, off the shelf stuff made by other companies like AMD (probably in China). Apple and Friends can continue to make the Cinema Displays, cases, and components over in China and then just assemble each unique little baby Mac Pro to its buyer's specs in the States and basically claim that it's made here.

trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Dec 6, 2012

movax
Aug 30, 2008


I don't understand his "the educational system is not producing the expertise needed for major manufacturing in consumer electronics, but he hopes that Apple's effort can help spur progress in that area." Our MIT/CalTech/Stanford/etc engineers aren't good enough? There are a lot of good schools pumping out manufacturing engineers (my alma mater included) that are in high demand all over the place. Apple has no shortage of design talent where they are either.

Mac Pro does make sense to be the line assembled over here though.

evensevenone
May 12, 2001
Glass is a solid.
"Our education system isn't good enough" is CEO-speak for "we don't want to train people and we don't want to pay the salaries that experienced people deserve."

That said I think there is a growing divorce between what engineers learn in school and what they need to know on the job, but at the same time I think employers need to step up with training; there's way too much that is going to be specific to a certain business.

Stick100
Mar 18, 2003

evensevenone posted:

"Our education system isn't good enough" is CEO-speak for "we don't want to train people and we don't want to pay the salaries that experienced people deserve."

No it's CEO-speak for there aren't enough. Our education might create some great engineers but not at the scale apple needs. Apple doesn't need a couple great engineers they need thousands and thousands of specialized engineers, they exist in China, but not the US.

e: I almost probated you for empty-quoting before realizing the quote tag was broken :angel:

Somebody fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Dec 6, 2012

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

etalian posted:

The rMPG were designed to discourage people from doing upgrades by gluing the batteries and display screen to the chassis making it risky to remove things without doing big damage to the hardware.

That's also the only way to get things that small. They're not intentionally loving people over.

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Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

Stick100 posted:

No it's CEO-speak for there aren't enough. Our education might create some great engineers but not at the scale apple needs. Apple doesn't need a couple great engineers they need thousands and thousands of specialized engineers, they exist in China, but not the US.

Pretty much. If you took a group of engineers from the USA and said "How many of you guys have 20 years experience running a computer factory", I don't think many hands would go up.

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