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KnoxZone
Jan 27, 2007

If I die before I Wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take.
My Pony Mech design.

Can't fit a PPC in the head with available tech, so i stuck a medium laser instead. The PPC went in the CT instead. This is a cheap and powerful medium mech, effective at any range.

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AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

Comguard has some stupid powerful Assaults and heavies.

DatonKallandor
Aug 21, 2009

"I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."
Which we don't get to play with. Thanks a lot Leperflesh :colbert:
After trying out some of the mechs involved in this scenario I think I can savely say that if PTN is even a little evil we are all dead. Just a single...well I don't wanna give him any ideas.

lilljonas
May 6, 2007

We got crabs? We got crabs!
Awesome scenario, this will be a lot of fun to watch! I'm rooting for the Horses, but really, I'm happy with either side winning if it means mech laser battles on a spaceship. In space.

Chronojam
Feb 20, 2006

This is me on vacation in Amsterdam :)
Never be afraid of being yourself!


PoptartsNinja posted:

Nope. Savanah Masters vs. Lava Tornados in a forest during a lightning storm.

Now that you promised this, we'd better see it :colbert:

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Tempest_56 posted:

Doubly so for those not familiar with the universe - there's three sorts of *ships.

Dropships are the only ones that are atmosphere-capable. They usually ferry troops from orbit to ground, and are sometimes used as light carriers or super-heavy fighters themselves. No dropship has interstellar capabilities, and are usually only lightly armed and armored. They normally mass between 1,500 and 10,000 tons, with the most extreme outlier being the 100,000 ton Behemoth.

Jumpships are mostly unarmed interstellar ships, designed primarily to carry dropships from star to star. They are rarely armed and only lightly armored, usually being considered non-combatants. They range in size from 90,000 tons to 380,000 tons and carry anywhere between 1 and 9 dropships.

Warships are a jumpship that is designed for, well, war. They are extremely rare and ridiculously expensive - and also obscenely deadly. A small warship - a corvette - will mass between 150,000 and 250,000 tons.

The Fox class corvette clocks in at 240,000 tons, costs $16 billion, carries 5 dropships, packs 26 captial-class weapons (each more than ten times as powerful as the mech-scale equivalent), and is armored by almost 400 tons of armor.
The closest equivalent jumpship, the Star Lord, is unarmed, has no armor and costs $750 million.

To build onto this more, Dropships come in two different configurations and three (technically four) different classifications.

Dropships are either Spheroid or Aerodyne, the latter meaning roughly plane-like. This affects their firing arcs and hit tables (Spheroids do not have wings, for example) and can affect how they handle gravity. There are a few dropships that cannot enter atmosphere, for example.

They are classified as Civilian (Like cargo transports, though liners do exist, namely the Monarch class), Military, or Assault. Assault dropships are military dropships with limited/no `mech/vehicle/aerofighter capacity but instead carry extra guns and armor to escort dropships and engage enemy dropships. There are a few carrier dropships such as the Vengance (which is also an Aerodyne that cannot enter the atmosphere) which I believe holds 36 fighters.

Of interesting note is the distinction of 'obsolete' designs for dropships. This stems from before they had established construction rules for dropships so they kinda just threw stuff together. This meant that the designs didn't properly mesh up with the newly implemented rules and thus were typically illegal. Sometimes they would be underweight while other times they would be overweight. TRO 3057 updated most of these designs and greatly improved the graphics for some of them.

quote:

Our plucky Union in this scenario is 3,600 tons, has no capital-class weapons and minimal armor.
The Lola III we see here is a destroyer, weighing in at 678,000 tons and a cost of $1.9 trillion. The armor and firepower are double that of the Fox. Including the Naval equivalent of 12 large lasers, 16 Naval AC10s and 7 Naval-class missile launchers, all of which will instantly destroy the Union if they hit.

Actually, the Union could survive a hit or two, but that's about it. It wouldn't survive a broadside. It's armor is 18/18/10 (Naval scale).


AtomikKrab posted:

OH right, nukes are legal in a space fight, as long as you are... over 75k kilometers from a planets surface the ares conventions allows you to use nukes against warships.

One of the last operational warships in the Inner Sphere was destroyed by a nuke, a Davy Crockett if I remember correctly. And by operational I mean not held by ComStar

Taerkar fucked around with this message at 19:06 on May 25, 2011

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy


Soiled Meat

AtomikKrab posted:

If you feel lucky, demand fabulous prizes from hells horses if you win, and try to follow zell in that case, you have a numerical advantage so you can wait and fight someone weakened. I would go with some Omnimech technology

ComStar does not realize that OmniMechs are Different (tm) yet.



DatonKallandor posted:

Also, PTN did you send me a mail, cause if you did I gotta check my spam folder?

I have not sent any mail yet, no. We haven't hit Tactical Update 1



Bad Moon posted:

Except by now she's probably with the Goliath Scorpions, captured in a Trial of Possession.

That she is, and the Mortal Kombat Scorpions (the Goliath Scorpions all dress like Arab Ninjas, you see) won't be giving her back.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

We can bribe the scorpions with :catdrugs: special comguard product that is lostech, the scorpions will salivate all over that.



(also btw people goliath scorpion pilots go into battle flying HIGH on scorpion venom and are considered the absolute best pilots in the clans... by the clans... mostly due to them being high as poo poo.)

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy


Soiled Meat

AtomikKrab posted:

(also btw people goliath scorpion pilots go into battle flying HIGH on scorpion venom and are considered the absolute best pilots in the clans... by the clans... mostly due to them being high as poo poo.)

In the normal timeline, yes; because the Scorpions had more pilots than 'Mechs they developed a drug that basically exists to kill their pilots more quickly than the rest of the clans. That wasn't necessary in this timeline, so there're very few Scorpions addicted to Necrosia. It's pretty much only the Seekers.

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

SageNytell posted:

Barring specific instructions or an unwinnable scenario requiring something on the order of Steiner rules, nah, you're good. Cross the drat streams all you want. Figure you get a one-turn surprise of them using really shoddy tactics? Might make the difference, combined with the limits placed on their mobility.

Yeah, exactly. Some Steiner folks dramatically outnumbered desperately searching for a way to survive adopting Zell, sure

Warriors of the Comguard standing against heretics who dare to strike at them doing anything but smiting them with massed fire like the fist of Blake himself? Nonsense!

KnoxZone
Jan 27, 2007

If I die before I Wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take.

PoptartsNinja posted:

In the normal timeline, yes; because the Scorpions had more pilots than 'Mechs they developed a drug that basically exists to kill their pilots more quickly than the rest of the clans. That wasn't necessary in this timeline, so there're very few Scorpions addicted to Necrosia. It's pretty much only the Seekers.

I have enjoyed everything else you have done to canon, but this I cannot stand. You have ruined the Scorpions with this action. :mad:

Its Rinaldo
Aug 13, 2010

CODS BINCH

KnoxZone posted:

I have enjoyed everything else you have done to canon, but this I cannot stand. You have ruined the Scorpions with this action. :mad:

Just means more awesome saved up for the Ghost Bears :sweden:

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Taerkar posted:

One of the last operational warships in the Inner Sphere was destroyed by a nuke, a Davy Crockett if I remember correctly. And by operational I mean not held by ComStar

Which one was that? I recall the last WarShip outside ComStar's hands was the LCS Invincible, and by last I mean "it destroyed the last WarShips the Draconis Combine had, who were the other guys to still have some."

Then it misjumped and got stolen by ROM.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!





Bad Moon posted:

Just means more awesome saved up for the Ghost Bears :sweden:

I dunno, it looks to me like PTN's going out of his way to sideline the Clans who got the most spotlight in the old continuity in favor of less used Clans. So the Bears, while cool, are unlikely to be too focused on.

Now, for my money, I've always wanted to see more from the Cloud Cobras or Snow Ravens.

Felime
Jul 10, 2009

Defiance Industries posted:

Then it misjumped and got stolen by ROM.

"misjumped"

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Defiance Industries posted:

Which one was that? I recall the last WarShip outside ComStar's hands was the LCS Invincible, and by last I mean "it destroyed the last WarShips the Draconis Combine had, who were the other guys to still have some."

Then it misjumped and got stolen by ROM.

I don't remember offhand. I think it's mentioned in TRO 3057, but I might have read it somewhere else.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


Taerkar posted:

I don't remember offhand. I think it's mentioned in TRO 3057, but I might have read it somewhere else.

Well, there were a ton of "the last WarShip of this class" was destroyed by nukes in the early Succession Wars era. The last WarShip, though, has always been the Invincible, after it blew up all the others.

The Merry Marauder
Apr 4, 2009

"But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own."

Taerkar posted:

Edit: Oh, and for those that aren't aware, the Lola III is a Destroyer, CHH has two per the fluff, the CHH Gold Knight and the CHH Red Knight.

You forgot the Black Knight. I hear it's never lost a battle.

evilmiera
Dec 14, 2009

Status: Ravenously Rambunctious
I get back from a few days off for work and various other things, and you've already voted on the next scenario? Dangit, and it turned out be Com Guards :(

But I must admit, this looks like a pretty sweet scenario. But it's also one where I again have to root for PTN's group by default.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!





evilmiera posted:

I get back from a few days off for work and various other things, and you've already voted on the next scenario? Dangit, and it turned out be Com Guards :(

But I must admit, this looks like a pretty sweet scenario. But it's also one where I again have to root for PTN's group by default.

Well it was a landslide for the Blakists, so your vote wouldn't have changed anything, if that's a consolation.

W.T. Fits
Apr 21, 2010

Ready to Poyozo Dance all over your face.

evilmiera posted:

I get back from a few days off for work and various other things, and you've already voted on the next scenario? Dangit, and it turned out be Com Guards :(

Yeah, but considering we only had three choices to pick from, one of which the votes would be cut in half for and is going to be available regardless, and one of which we've passed on twice now with this being the last chance for it, it was gonna be ComGuards no matter what. The third choice, the Marik one, seemed kinda weak on the surface; that's not to say PTN didn't have something awesome in mind, but I think he kind of steered the voting on this one towards the ComGuards scenario.

Leperflesh's prize from the Mystery Box is just an added bonus.

And I get to pilot the Haters Gonna Hate mech, which pleases me.

Taerkar
Dec 7, 2002

kind of into it, really

Reading Sarna.net's wiki entries on the Jihad just makes me hate the entire Jihad setting so much more. So... terrible...

Tempest_56
Mar 14, 2009

Taerkar posted:

Reading Sarna.net's wiki entries on the Jihad just makes me hate the entire Jihad setting so much more. So... terrible...

I still hold that the Jihad was needed. It wasn't done well, but it needed to happen. There were too many legacy characters who just wouldn't die and there was too much explosive tech advancement. It was getting out of control and needed something big to dial it back. The Jihad did that. It has it's flaws, but it was needed.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


The Jihad introduced way more new tech than ever before, though. We have the Jihad-era XTROs with the Houses making designs mounting home-made Clantech.

Plus, they didn't take out the main legacy characters, just the secondary ones who didn't really need killing anyway. Really, you whack Caesar Steiner and Jackson Davion, but Morgan Kell is still alive? Wolf's Dragoons was a good start but they backed off out of fear from backlash.

Gothsheep
Apr 22, 2010

Taerkar posted:

Reading Sarna.net's wiki entries on the Jihad just makes me hate the entire Jihad setting so much more. So... terrible...

The Jihad didn't need to be terrible. It could have been written well. It could have been tense, interesting and make sense.

The premise itself isn't bad. The galaxy is getting steadily more advanced and peaceful, and elements in ComStar begin to covet the old days when everything was poo poo and they were kings of the poo poo pile. So they decide to use the influence they still have to drag the universe into a new war, that'll be as brutal as the succession wars, and destroy all the progress that's been made so they'll be back on top.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!





Taerkar posted:

Reading Sarna.net's wiki entries on the Jihad just makes me hate the entire Jihad setting so much more. So... terrible...

The thing about the Jihad is that it has no greater purpose than to knock everything over to set up the Dark Age setting for the clicky game. Because of that, things happen that just don't make much sense. For example, it was already pushing credibility that there were enough left over 'mechs and hidden factories in and around Earth that ComStar was able to build the ComGuards in the first place, but now you're telling me that there was enough to equip Word of Blake with enough gear...and pilots....to take on everyone all at once?!

If that was the case, why didn't ComStar just take over the whole Inner Sphere centuries ago?

Plus, the fact that it blows everything up and kills off so many of people's favorite characters and units leaves you with a sour taste in your mouth. Sort of "well gee, if everything was going to end in death and fire anyhow, it kind makes everything we fought for since 3025 pretty meaningless, doesn't it?"

And the tech, which was already getting out of hand in the late Clan era, just goes batshit crazy. C3 alone is game breaking, but now there's C3i..all the benefits with none of the drawbacks! Heavy Guass Rifles. IMPROVED HEAVY GAUSS RIFLES. HYPER ASSAULT GUASS RIFLE 40! And so on, and so forth.

Its all just too Uncle Albert for my tastes.

In short, I hate the Jihad, and wish it would go away. And if they ever get the legal problems sorted out, I'm quite glad that the planned Mechwarrior game will be set in in 3015 where things are nice and simple.

Hell, maybe we'll get lucky and they'll reboot the whole timeline from there!

jng2058 fucked around with this message at 22:11 on May 25, 2011

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer


I think the original HGR is really well balanced. The iHGR is ridiculous, but the standard one only does full damage at short range.

It has a 6 hex short range. It has a 4 hex minimum range.

Yes, it's devastating when positioned correctly, but that is amazingly hard to do considering the drat thing needs 20+ tons devoted to it.

elitebuster
Dec 26, 2010

I know its super dooper kooper
cool like up the bitches snitches

Defiance Industries posted:

I think the original HGR is really well balanced. The iHGR is ridiculous, but the standard one only does full damage at short range.

It has a 6 hex short range. It has a 4 hex minimum range.

Yes, it's devastating when positioned correctly, but that is amazingly hard to do considering the drat thing needs 20+ tons devoted to it.

That's why they need to deploy them in pairs with Chargers: the Chargers hold the enemy mech in range with a grapple attack, and the rifle-guy blasts them to gently caress.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Yay!

Just to be clear: I got to decide that the battle would be in space (vs. a different choice that I won't mention unless PTN says it's OK to). PTN already had the idea of the fight taking place on the hull of a ship. I suggested the dark/light side with the heat dissipation differential.

I had no input into (and have no knowledge of) the force compositions.

(I also suggested the ship pilot could spin the ship to fling everyone off, but PTN said they don't really have quick enough acceleration for that. Oh well!)

MJ12
Apr 8, 2009

jng2058 posted:

The thing about the Jihad is that it has no greater purpose than to knock everything over to set up the Dark Age setting for the clicky game. Because of that, things happen that just don't make much sense. For example, it was already pushing credibility that there were enough left over 'mechs and hidden factories in and around Earth that ComStar was able to build the ComGuards in the first place, but now you're telling me that there was enough to equip Word of Blake with enough gear...and pilots....to take on everyone all at once?!

If that was the case, why didn't ComStar just take over the whole Inner Sphere centuries ago?

Because the Jihad was what happened when someone had been preparing for total war for the last twenty years came in and did it out of the blue. ComStar never had the will or the reason to attempt total war. The Word of Blake didn't care if the galaxy burned. The WoB could never have sustained the output it did in the long term, and basically won by taking advantage of everyone fighting everyone else.

In 3025, the results would have been just as bad for ComStar in the long term, probably even worse because the Hidden Worlds of the Manei Domini wouldn't be fully on board.

quote:

And the tech, which was already getting out of hand in the late Clan era, just goes batshit crazy. C3 alone is game breaking, but now there's C3i..all the benefits with none of the drawbacks! Heavy Guass Rifles. IMPROVED HEAVY GAUSS RIFLES. HYPER ASSAULT GUASS RIFLE 40! And so on, and so forth.

Its all just too Uncle Albert for my tastes.

C3i computers weigh 250% as much as C3 Slaves, can't link an entire company together via multiple C3 Masters, and pay a ridiculous cost in BV for what you get. If you're not balancing for BV, well, that's what you get.

Heavy Gauss Rifles are terrible weapons unless you are an absolute master at using them. For most functions a standard gauss rifle masses much less and is much more useful, as the difference between 15 and 20 points is largely academic and the HGR has a huge minimum range. Improved Heavy Gauss Rifles are only marginally better and are the heaviest weapon in existence, massing a full twenty tons and taking up an entire side torso for a weapon that does 22 damage at the range of a PPC or ER Large Laser.

HAG-40s are less efficient than 2 Clan LRM-20s. Their only real advantage is flak. Yes they look big and scary but in the end they aren't all that. They distribute their hits in 5 point clusters and have a minimum range versus Clan LRMs which don't. They fill up more or less an entire torso with something that'll blow it off if hit, versus LRMs which only have explosive ammo crits and on a Clan mech you have CASE anyways so you just lose the torso.

The only people allowed to complain about Jihad tech are the 3025 purists, because the best weapons (IS/Clan gauss rifle, IS Medium Laser, IS LB-10X, Clan ER Medium, Clan Large Pulse, Clan LRMs) were introduced by the Clan Invasion and every single weapon following that has been significantly worse overall compared to those systems. You can argue that some weapons were obsoleted (the X-Pulse ML more or less obsoletes the IS Large Pulse Laser, the Light PPC obsoletes the AC-5), but those weapons which end up on the chopping block typically were just plain bad.

And I'd like weapons which fill their intended niches while not being absolutely useless, thank you very much.

quote:

In short, I hate the Jihad, and wish it would go away. And if they ever get the legal problems sorted out, I'm quite glad that the planned Mechwarrior game will be set in in 3015 where things are nice and simple.

Hell, maybe we'll get lucky and they'll reboot the whole timeline from there!

The Jihad is the best era gameplay wise because of all the tactical options made available. Yes there's something to be said about 3025 simplicity, but basically every effective mech is boring and using endless failpiles again and again and trying to hammer them into tactical niches gets tiring after a while. In the Jihad, you basically see every technological level in use, from primitive mechs built with tech the equivalent of the Mackie, to hyper-advanced experimental systems, and you can legitimately have both of them in the same unit.

I can get people hating the Jihad for its paper thin plot, but gameplay-wise it gives you the most flexible options and the most interesting tactical situations.

MJ12 fucked around with this message at 23:48 on May 25, 2011

AJ_Impy
Jun 17, 2007

SWORD OF SMATTAS. CAN YOU NOT HEAR A WORLD CRY OUT FOR JUSTICE? WHEN WILL YOU DELIVER IT?
Yam Slacker

MJ12 posted:

HAG-40s are less efficient than 2 Clan LRM-20s. Their only real advantage is flak. Yes they look big and scary but in the end they aren't all that. They distribute their hits in 5 point clusters and have a minimum range versus Clan LRMs which don't. They fill up more or less an entire torso with something that'll blow it off if hit, versus LRMs which only have explosive ammo crits and on a Clan mech you have CASE anyways so you just lose the torso.

In defence of the big guns, they do have a number of other advantages over LRMs, particularly in this era. Anti-missile systems and ECM do nothing against them, and one HAG/40 generates 50% less heat than two LRM/20s. You get half as many shots per ton of HAG/40 ammo than LRM/20 ammo, meaning firing both LRM/20s would eat ammo at the same rate. HAGs can be used with targeting computers as well. The CLRM/20 is indeed one of the best weapons, but the advantage isn't quite so clear cut, especially if your opponent is fond of countermeasures.

MJ12
Apr 8, 2009

AJ_Impy posted:

In defence of the big guns, they do have a number of other advantages over LRMs, particularly in this era. Anti-missile systems and ECM do nothing against them, and one HAG/40 generates 50% less heat than two LRM/20s. You get half as many shots per ton of HAG/40 ammo than LRM/20 ammo, meaning firing both LRM/20s would eat ammo at the same rate. HAGs can be used with targeting computers as well. The CLRM/20 is indeed one of the best weapons, but the advantage isn't quite so clear cut, especially if your opponent is fond of countermeasures.

Not many mechs operate AMS, and a HAG/40 generates 8 vs 12 heat (so 33% less). ECM only has an effect if you're using ArtIV missiles or Swarm-I missiles, which is another thing. The LRM can also use a whole mess of special ammunition loads. Want to waste infantry at 21 hexes? Carry a ton of frag. Need area denial? FASCAM. Lighting a fire? Incendiary. Multiple targets close to each other? Swarm.

HAGs are less flexible, mass more, take up more crits, and all of that for reduced vulnerability to AMS (and AMS is "just" -4 to the first missile hit table, which averages out to the penalty for firing HAGs at anything long range anyways). You'd need a pretty specific situation to make the HAG head and shoulders better (the enemy is fielding solely VTOLs and WiGEs with AMS systems and ECM).

The point isn't that Jihad weapons can't be better than standard weapons in some situations. The point is that pretty much all of them are not better overall, which is what jng2058 was claiming.

chutche2
Jul 3, 2010

CUPOLA MY BALLS
I feel that plasma rifles are pretty ridiculous as far as new tech goes, when you really look at the stats. The only thing keeping them from obsoleting AC 10s is precision ammo. Significantly less weight (even when you count in the extra double heat sinks you might need for plasma rifles they weigh 2.5 tons less than an AC 10), inert ammo, same range, same damage, less than a third the critical slots, and they completely gently caress over infantry, battle armor, vehicles, and the tactical advantage you gain by one hit can ruin a mech's heat curve for the next several turns. To me, plasma rifles seem innocent enough at first glance but when you really look at the mechanics they are monstrous. Which is ironic since the BA plasma is worse than recoilless rifles in every way.

Also, I feel that snub nosed PPCs is what makes LPLs obsolete, not x-pulse lasers. LPLs at least have better range brackets. Snub nosed PPCs are better in every way except for LPLs having an advantage at very short ranged, and at that distance VSPs or regular MPLs are better.

Speaking of which, VSPs are another weapon that really, truly shouldn't exist. X-Pulse lasers can be better in some situations when you consider weight, but then x-pulse are experimental when all these other ones are advanced.

chutche2 fucked around with this message at 01:27 on May 26, 2011

RickVoid
Oct 21, 2010
Fighting on the outside of a dropship in hard vacuum with walker mechs? Have we inadvertantly stumbled into the Gundam universe?

All "It's like one of my Japanese Animes!" jokes aside, this is going to be an interesting fight. Try to avoid having to make many PSR's guys, and if you aren't going in with hot-loaded LRMs, don't go in with them at all. If you work together you should be able to contain the targets and pick them off one at a time.

In response to the "Rotate the dropship to throw off the enemy mechs", which was already shot down, may I suggest that a simple 180 degree rotation would be ebough to switch which side of the ship faces the local star, and is therefore the "Hot" side? It could be usefull if the pilots get boxed in on the hot side and start overheating if they could ask the pilot to flip the ship. It would also make this feel much more like fighting in a 360 degree battlefield.

Putting my support behind the small and fast Pony Mech posted earlier. Seems most appropriate.

Finally, PTN named the Clint's pilot Westwood. Well played goon-sir.

MJ12
Apr 8, 2009

chutche2 posted:

I feel that plasma rifles are pretty ridiculous as far as new tech goes, when you really look at the stats. The only thing keeping them from obsoleting AC 10s is precision ammo. Significantly less weight (even when you count in the extra double heat sinks you might need for plasma rifles they weigh 2.5 tons less than an AC 10), inert ammo, same range, same damage, less than a third the critical slots, and they completely gently caress over infantry, battle armor, vehicles, and the tactical advantage you gain by one hit can ruin a mech's heat curve for the next several turns. To me, plasma rifles seem innocent enough at first glance but when you really look at the mechanics they are monstrous. Which is ironic since the BA plasma is worse than recoilless rifles in every way.

That's because you're comparing the Plasma Rifle to the standard AC-10. Compare it to the LB-X, which has better critseeking, is just as good against vehicles and battle armor (while being more accurate), better range brackets, and masses 11 + 1.5 = 12.5 (weapon + 1.5 DHS) to 6 + 5 = 11 tons (weapon + 5 DHS) before counting ammo. The heat curve thing is a valid counterargument, but it trades versatility, accuracy, and critical space size for that advantage, and with 3 slot DHS, the crit argument is pretty huge.

It's somewhat better than the PPC but not significant enough to be a very significant difference. The extra 1-6 heat can be annoying, but unless you have a mass of PRs pointed at you (and in that case a mass of PPCs would be equivalently problematic) it's just inconvenient unless you're already running very hot.

quote:

Also, I feel that snub nosed PPCs is what makes LPLs obsolete, not x-pulse lasers. LPLs at least have better range brackets. Snub nosed PPCs are better in every way except for LPLs having an advantage at very short ranged, and at that distance VSPs or regular MPLs are better.

The SNPPC has a completely different role than the LPL, which is intended for fast jumpers or tight quarters. The SNPPC isn't actually a brawler weapon. It's a finesse weapon like the HGR, pairs best with long range weapons such as LRMs, and is best used by keeping at the 9 hex magic distance where it's in short range while most close-range weapons are in long and long-range weapons are still in medium.

The X-Pulse Medium Laser has 3/6/9 range (nearly identical to the LPL which has 3/7/10) and better heat efficiency than the LPL.

Again, my go-to mech to illustrate how IS Pulse Lasers are often underestimated (they're a bad weapon outside of a narrow niche but put them in that narrow niche and they can kick some pretty serious rear end) is the Sagittaire. At first glance, it does almost everything wrong. It's a 95 tonner with an IS XL moving 3/5/3, full of IS Pulse Lasers. But when you use it in play, you find out it's worth every bit of its 2088 BV, because it can jump around all the time while still getting incredible to-hit modifiers, allowing it to put a lot of accurate fire in close while unleashing 19 point kicks, and +3 jump means +2 TMM, which is pretty solid for a mech with near max armor.

quote:

Speaking of which, VSPs are another weapon that really, truly shouldn't exist. X-Pulse lasers can be better in some situations when you consider weight, but then x-pulse are experimental when all these other ones are advanced.

VSPs? Why VSPs? They're not good weapons outside of specialist machines or aerospace combat.

The Small VSPL is basically a shittier medium pulse laser that generates all of 1 less heat, the Medium VSPL is worse than two medium pulse lasers outside of very specific circumstances, and the Large VSPL masses more than a Large Pulse Laser + targeting computer, which has superior to equivalent accuracy, deals more reliable damage, and still has a ton of spare TC "space" to stick a medium laser or something in.

MJ12 fucked around with this message at 01:57 on May 26, 2011

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy


Soiled Meat

RickVoid posted:

may I suggest that a simple 180 degree rotation would be ebough to switch which side of the ship faces the local star, and is therefore the "Hot" side?

It would make sense, but I need to veto it for technical and/or personal laziness reasons. The map is made, which means it would need to be remade for a flip.

Cthulhu Dreams
Dec 11, 2010

If I pretend to be Cthulhu no one will know I'm a baseball robot.
Isn't the plan here:

1)NARC target
2)Everyone shoots the poo poo out of him
3)Repeat
4)Profit!

RickVoid
Oct 21, 2010

PoptartsNinja posted:

It would make sense, but I need to veto it for technical and/or personal laziness reasons. The map is made, which means it would need to be remade for a flip.

Totaly understandable, but I felt the need to ask anyway. It would also give the players too much of an advantage. (A mech that has drifted away would end up landing on the opposite side of the ship it drifted away from if the ship rotated in between the mech leaving and returning. Not totally abusable, since you're not letting them use jumpjets to leave the ship, but the potential is still there.)

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy


Soiled Meat

Tempest_56 posted:

CHP-1N Champion

Did I mention ugly? Yeah. The Champion's our biggest mech, but lacks in a lot of areas. Compared to the rest of our team it isn't any faster, it's less armored and doesn't pack all that much firepower. What it does have is the LB 10-X AC, which is the bestest weapon EVER. It's a mech shotgun, and the ultimate critseeking tool. Fire it all day, every day.

You forgot to mention one of the Champion's biggest assets: Its arms are simply extra ablative armor for its torso. Like the Ostsol, it carries no arm-mounted weapons which means it's less crippled by the loss of a limb.

Of course, it can't exactly punch things very well, but you take what you can get. When in doubt? Get the enemy into one of your right or left side arcs to increase the odds of them wasting a shot by hitting one of your arms. They've still gotta blow through the internal structure to hit the torso slots, even if you breach.



Edit: Tactical Update 1 soon. Total combined player tonnage: 290. Total combined Clan tonnage: 210. Other fun facts: Your opponents are second-line 'Mechs. Two are 'favorites' (one is a personal favorite of mine, one is a Star League favorite) and one is a 'Mech that really deserved a -IIC but never got an official one.

PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 02:25 on May 26, 2011

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landcollector
Feb 28, 2011

PoptartsNinja posted:

Edit: Tactical Update 1 soon. Total combined player tonnage: 290. Total combined Clan tonnage: 210. Other fun facts: Your opponents are second-line 'Mechs. Two are 'favorites' (one is a personal favorite of mine, one is a Star League favorite) and one is a 'Mech that really deserved a -IIC but never got an official one.

Would one of the Hell's Horses mechs be a Rifleman IIC?

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