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Arrrthritis posted:If this is the case, I would hope that Ishgard fights Bismarck for no other reason than it being a Lunar Whale. I think that it has to be Thordan, Lunar Whale is a fun idea and all, but you're gonna be questing with Aymeric and dealing with Ishgard's history/future. It kind of has to be rear end in a top hat Pope Dad return. Cleretic posted:I like the Lunar Primal splitup, but I don't think it'd come out like that, because there's a few of those that couldn't be summoned like that, having an even weaker situation than Lunar Odin. Tsukuyomi and Shinryu don't actually have local worshippers, after all. Leviathan, Garuda (because Ixal abducted but nothing came of it), Tsukuyomi is what Yotsuyu gets because she's Doman and it's a Doman goddess people still believe in, Thordan is still a huge religious figure in Ishgard. Also narratively they're the ones that make the most sense, Tsukuyomi works for following up on Hien's leadership and nation, Thordan is basically the sins of Ishgard's history, Garuda and Leviathan are ancient enemies of Gridania and Limsa, Shinryu is an outlier and it could be Lakshmi but also we're hanging out with Raubahn, so dealing with his blood-brother's gently caress up makes sense. They in fact explicitly state that Yotsuyu would have been told the myths of Tsukuyomi as part of growing up in Doma at least once. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 12:48
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Lord_Magmar posted:Speaking of, my current theory is that we're gonna be hunting down Lunar Primals. In which case Gridania = Garuda (Lunaruda if you will), Limsa = Leviathan (what a storm), Doma = Tsukuyomi (which when you think about it is kind of just a double moon goddess), Ishgard = Thordan and Ala Mihgo = Shinryu. I hope this is true - after just fighting recreations of a bunch of primals in Eden and again in the MSQ I'd rather they were relegated to role quests rather than dominate the story/trials/raids again.
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Dec 1, 2021 12:57
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Zoig posted:I gotta say, the fact that both trials are not listed in the patch notes has me incredibly suspicious. Given that they already revealed Anima ages ago and they were pretty upfront about revealing stuff they'd already discussed, I guess this means it won't be Anima. stev posted:I hope this is true - after just fighting recreations of a bunch of primals in Eden and again in the MSQ I'd rather they were relegated to role quests rather than dominate the story/trials/raids again. I think it'd be kinda fun if they were rare fates or something, little world-boss style things like Odin or the Coerul Regina but maybe not so ungodly rare.
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Dec 1, 2021 13:08
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we're gonna kill hydaelyn and zodiark, of course.
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Dec 1, 2021 13:16
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Meeko posted:we're gonna kill hydaelyn and zodiark, of course. In the extreme fight they'll merge
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Dec 1, 2021 13:47
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God no, please, can we not do Primal rematches again. I'm hoping the Lunar primals are super minimized, because I'm sick of fighting the same 6 bosses over and over Particularly egregious shout out to 5.5, where we get Lunar Ifrit and Diamond Ifrit i know it was a few pages back but wth are you guys smoking in regards to Diamond- that fight is a fuckin mess. the only interesting mechanics are the platform swaps and the AOEs that chase you. the amount of forced downtime (and worse than that- STOP AND START forced downtime) is a fuckin sin. throw that fight in the bin. For reference, out of the ShB EXs: SoS > Varis > Titania > Hades (would be higher if not for how loving long the multiple phase changes are)>>>> ruby >>>>>>>>emerald >>>>>>>>>>>> diamond
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Dec 1, 2021 16:25
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To be fair, I was trying to find Primals we haven't fought multiple times. It's just a bit hard to do that for Limsa and Gridania because the local primals are very often reused. I guess Gridania could have Lunar Moggle Mogg. No idea for Limsa though. I actually really like Ruby Weapon in both versions, Emerald Weapon too. Diamond is just a massive let-down in terms of fight design (even if the fight itself can be fun to do and the cutscene afterwards is extremely good).
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Dec 1, 2021 16:36
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Nuebot posted:Given that they already revealed Anima ages ago and they were pretty upfront about revealing stuff they'd already discussed, I guess this means it won't be Anima. Its especially weird because anima does show up in the trailer for a decent bit of time, so either anima is actually a dungeon boss, or theres no way to get a good still shot of anima without something in the background being a large spoiler people would easily notice. And considering I was able to make a correlation to where one of the release trailer cutscenes happens due to some loving background smoke, I do understand the extreme caution
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Dec 1, 2021 16:37
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maybe didn't want to give away the name of where you fight anima given where it seems to be
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Dec 1, 2021 16:41
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castrum finalis fantasis
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Dec 1, 2021 16:56
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duties for all the nation leaders would be neat now add them all to trusts
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Dec 1, 2021 17:37
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buddy they can't even add estinien to shadowbringers trusts
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Dec 1, 2021 17:39
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Super No Vacancy posted:duties for all the nation leaders would be neat
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Dec 1, 2021 17:51
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Hogama posted:buddy they can't even add estinien to shadowbringers trusts that's because he wasnt on the first!
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Dec 1, 2021 18:11
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Super No Vacancy posted:that's because he wasnt on the first! You can use Ryne for the last 2 dungeons tho can't you (past the initial time) and those aren't on the first!
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Dec 1, 2021 18:21
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Bringing back Tsukuyomi would suck, both because of the how she'd be summoned again (and if she didn't have an entirely new design I'd riot), but also because the fight against her was very conclusive. It'd be like bringing Shiva back, it just feels wrong.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:31
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Eimi posted:Bringing back Tsukuyomi would suck, both because of the how she'd be summoned again (and if she didn't have an entirely new design I'd riot), but also because the fight against her was very conclusive. It'd be like bringing Shiva back, it just feels wrong.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:33
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Nessus posted:It would suck if she's just a primal but they could probably do an actual story beat where it's like not just Lunar Tsukuyomi but Pissed Off Grudge Ghost Tsukuyomi. Yotsuyu of all people would have specific reason to give you post-mortem assistance because your enemies are now the two people at the absolute top of her poo poo-list, well beyond you, the Warrior of Light, who ultimately really didn't do anything to her other than facilitate her very inventive form of self-destruction.  Okay if that happens it'd be awesome. And doesn't need a rematch against her.
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Dec 1, 2021 18:39
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Eimi posted:
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Dec 1, 2021 18:49
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them not backporting estinien likely has less to do with canon (you can use g'raha in old dungeons) and more with how every trust partner has to have a script programmed for each individual dungeon
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Dec 1, 2021 18:56
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An entire Merlwyb questchain... it's like all my Namedays have come at once!
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Dec 1, 2021 18:57
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happy to party down in ishgard as caster tbh
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Dec 1, 2021 18:58
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Primals do have a specific soul-analog within the lifestream, so the emotional horrors of Lunar Tsukuyomi or Lunar Shiva aren't off the table.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:00
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Vitamean posted:happy to party down in ishgard as caster tbh Yuuuup. I'm all here for Aymeric senpai
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Dec 1, 2021 19:01
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Blockhouse posted:them not backporting estinien likely has less to do with canon (you can use g'raha in old dungeons) and more with how every trust partner has to have a script programmed for each individual dungeon Oh yeah, this is 100% it. I completely forgot about that aspect.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:03
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It will be weird if Yotsuyu doesn't come up at all in the fight against her lovely possessed brother and her literal walking nightmare so I wouldn't mind some way of her getting one punch on on Zenos
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Dec 1, 2021 19:07
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Oh yeah, this is 100% it. I completely forgot about that aspect. yeah it's probably also why if we see more trusts added in EW it'll probably be one-offs and not people you can bring to every dungeon and level.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:14
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Ironslave posted:Primals do have a specific soul-analog within the lifestream, so the emotional horrors of Lunar Tsukuyomi or Lunar Shiva aren't off the table. No they don't.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:16
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ImpAtom posted:It will be weird if Yotsuyu doesn't come up at all in the fight against her lovely possessed brother and her literal walking nightmare so I wouldn't mind some way of her getting one punch on on Zenos I mean Fandaniel is Asahi the same way a hollowed out log with a family of possums living inside it is still a majestic flourishing oak My bet is she doesn't come up at all
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Dec 1, 2021 19:22
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:No they don't. Yeah, they do. It's part of the whole way the Weapons worked; by consuming and imprisoning the primal, they prevent that primal from being resummoned and they are directly described as having some intrinsic element that is summoned from and returns to the lifestream upon their dissolution.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:34
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Yeah it’s old ARR or HW lore but it was firmly established that if, hypothetically, the amalj’aa back home were to summon benevolent sun-god ifrit, angry war-god ifrit wouldn’t manifest My current speculation on WHY is something to do with the idea of a concept matrix and that all the original ancient versions of the primals are stored somewhere in the moon archives. Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Dec 1, 2021 |
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Dec 1, 2021 19:36
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Ironslave posted:Yeah, they do. It's part of the whole way the Weapons worked; by consuming and imprisoning the primal, they prevent that primal from being resummoned and they are directly described as having some intrinsic element that is summoned from and returns to the lifestream upon their dissolution. Doesn't this have to do less with any specific unique identity the Primal has, and more that the collective or individual that summoned and and is attuned to it is essentially having their summoning spell held hostage?
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Dec 1, 2021 19:36
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Mister Olympus posted:Yeah it’s old ARR or HW lore but it was firmly established that if, hypothetically, the amalj’aa back home were to summon benevolent sun-god ifrit, angry war-god ifrit wouldn’t manifest The opposite actually. You can summon beach hippy Ifrit if flame war god Ifrit is around. Chillgamesh posted:Doesn't this have to do less with any specific unique identity the Primal has, and more that the collective or individual that summoned and and is attuned to it is essentially having their summoning spell held hostage? Yes.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:39
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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/291216quote:KF: Yes. <thinks> … Yes! But as I mentioned with the Phoenix, depending on the culture, there’s a different perception of what it was. Was it a god? Was it a savior? Was it evil? Let’s use Ifrit as an example, though I’m not saying this is really the case with him. The Amalj’aa look at him as an angry god that wants to purify the land with his flames. When they summon him, they pray to that type of Ifrit, and it forms. Say, in the New World, thousands of miles away, there is also the legend of Ifrit, but in the thousands of years since that original seed of myth, he’s grown into a very benevolent god that… <laughs> gives flowers to children and is the fire that roasts your marshmallows… that’s a different essence, even though it’s the same Ifrit. Those two could exist simultaneously. But if Amalj’aa summon one Ifrit and some other Amalj’aa who worship the same Ifrit try to do the same thing, they could not.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:41
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In which case a hypothetical Lunar Shiva or Lunar Tsukiyomi would have nothing to do with their previous hosts and would be their own thing entirely
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Dec 1, 2021 19:43
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Chillgamesh posted:Doesn't this have to do less with any specific unique identity the Primal has, and more that the collective or individual that summoned and and is attuned to it is essentially having their summoning spell held hostage? No. Primals are malleable, they are shaped by the nature of their summoning, but they're not just that. They're more than coalesced aether in the shape their worshipers believed, they have a core element to what they are, but the game's not really gone deeply into what this means or why since it was introduced. The Emet-Selch Tales from the Shadows also displays this in that it shows us what may be the first instance of Phoenix accidentally being summoned by Lahabrea, and it's noted as being different specifically because it has a soul or something like one. If screamy Ga Bu Titan gets slacked in chains and buried somewhere, Titan--in any form--can no longer be summoned.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:43
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Ironslave posted:If screamy Ga Bu Titan gets slacked in chains and buried somewhere, Titan--in any form--can no longer be summoned. This is directly refuted by Koji Fox in the link I posted. That specific image of Titan is locked up, but any other interpretation is good to go.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:46
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Ironslave posted:No. Primals are malleable, they are shaped by the nature of their summoning, but they're not just that. They're more than coalesced aether in the shape their worshipers believed, they have a core element to what they are, but the game's not really gone deeply into what this means or why since it was introduced. The Emet-Selch Tales from the Shadows also displays this in that it shows us what may be the first instance of Phoenix accidentally being summoned by Lahabrea, and it's noted as being different specifically because it has a soul or something like one. That's not what that Koji Fox interview says
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Dec 1, 2021 19:46
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Also I just hope we get to see Pilgrim Gosetsu for a bit in the ranged DPS role quest 
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Dec 1, 2021 19:47
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:The opposite actually.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:48
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