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Wringing comedy out of Demon is invariably going to come from the characters' attempts to deal with cover complications. There's really nothing to any aspect of the God Machine that lends itself to lightheartedness. In the second story of our chronicle the circle was going to crash an auction to prevent the (supposed) sale of documents that could lead to the burning of their covers. The day before the sting One of the PCs had a character from her backstory pop up, a human who'd become pactbound to the PC early on in her run in exchange for fame on Broadway. The character was a primadonna and despite not really having a friend relationship with the demon, was feeling neglected, and so called a meeting to demand that the demon attend the debut of his starring turn in Hello Dolly!... the night of the auction. The demon attempted to use an interlock she had to de-emphasize the human's priorities and get to the auction without causing further headaches for herself, but failed. She decided to take her option to call a voluntary dramatic failure, gaining a personal obsession with attending the debut in the process. So it's just like any other WoD property. Use dramatic failures in low-stakes situations and see where it takes you. The "man falls down" school of comedy.
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Jan 1, 2017 06:56
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I dunno... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFlFIG22Y9E
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Jan 1, 2017 07:09
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Question for Demon players : Have you used character (that is to say, cover) backstory as a key element of plot, and if so how? It just seems that unless the PCs really go against their nature and are open books to each other, the simple story hook of "loved one gets into trouble" doesn't really work, since Demons conceal as much of themselves as they can to people they don't trust. Matter of fact, "what's my motivation" seems to come up with some regularity when a crisis arises but is not truly communal. You could, I suppose, work out some sort of gang initiation situation where everyone has to trust everyone else because they can all incriminate one another, but that makes for a weak group. Reminds me of a line from the Americans - ideology is good, money is better, but turning someone with blackmail never ends well for anyone. Basic Chunnel fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Jan 1, 2017 |
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Jan 1, 2017 11:27
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Ferrinus posted:Otherwise, I'm not seeing how your complaints don't apply equally well to 2E, which also doesn't give failure to hunt any consequences on the level of a vampire's failure to feed or avoid sunlight. You're still either buying into or rejecting archaic and somewhat arbitrary tribal structure and the onus is still on you to decide to accept and fulfill these weird responsibilities rather than ignore or shirk them. I was commenting on 1e without really thinking much about 2e, which I have only briefly skimmed enough to tell that they were really pushing the The Wolf Must Hunt angle and also there was some stuff about designing a bunch of NPCs that hang around you all the time? I can't say anything about how 1e and 2e compare, but I can say that 1e ha flaws. And if, as you claim, 2e has the same flaws then I suspect 2e isn't a very good game...
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Jan 1, 2017 11:34
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LatwPIAT posted:I was commenting on 1e without really thinking much about 2e, which I have only briefly skimmed enough to tell that they were really pushing the The Wolf Must Hunt angle and also there was some stuff about designing a bunch of NPCs that hang around you all the time? I can't say anything about how 1e and 2e compare, but I can say that 1e ha flaws. And if, as you claim, 2e has the same flaws then I suspect 2e isn't a very good game... I 'm saying the lack of individual-level pushes towards the macro behavior that 1E and 2E both assign to werewolves (claiming a territory, policing the spirits in that territory, teaming up to hunt down prey as a group) isn't a flaw in the first place. The organization of werewolf society, and the way that groups of werewolf characters generally solve problems, are emergent consequences of basic facts of the setting (spirits are weird and dangerous, spirits loathe werewolves by default, werewolves are born as and related by blood to normal humans) and the werewolf skillset (werewolves are excellent trackers, every werewolf is at bare minimum a strong combatant, werewolves don't expend any resources to recuperate from wounds or whip themselves into fighting shape). The oath of the moon and the tribes are pretty pragmatic when you get down to them, as the former's a set of principles for organizing society without actually bending knee to the lords of the shadow, and the latter are ways to get the power to do the former. I do agree, though, that the "the wolf must hunt" should hit individuals harder, which is why my group set it up so that the chief way werewolves regained essence was hunting down living creatures and eating their hearts. The higher your Primal Urge was, the bigger game you needed (humans always suffice).
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Jan 1, 2017 12:21
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I've never felt that Werewolf was ever a good game. So many fiddly subsystems, stats shifting all over the place, and my personal hell: all the loving special vocabulary. I would think that a game about being (or turning into) a huge supernatural rage monster would have more simple systems than a game about being a political creature of the night, but nope. Hang on guys, gotta do some math because I swapped forms and went into a different kind of frothy crazy than usual. Better have a half dozen or so extra stats, too; heaven forbid your Honor be roleplayed rather than a row of dots on your sheet. I like the books for the all the spirit world stuff and as a bestiary of sorts, but beyond that I don't think I could muster up the interest to even try to make a character for it.
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Jan 1, 2017 19:10
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I always feel like Werewolf would be well-served with a character sheet or chart with a full cheat sheet of stats for the forms and rage and so on.
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Jan 1, 2017 19:24
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Pope Guilty posted:I always feel like Werewolf would be well-served with a character sheet or chart with a full cheat sheet of stats for the forms and rage and so on. You know it has one, right? It's on the character sheet in the back of the book.
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Jan 1, 2017 19:31
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Yawgmoth posted:I've never felt that Werewolf was ever a good game. So many fiddly subsystems, stats shifting all over the place, and my personal hell: all the loving special vocabulary. I would think that a game about being (or turning into) a huge supernatural rage monster would have more simple systems than a game about being a political creature of the night, but nope. Hang on guys, gotta do some math because I swapped forms and went into a different kind of frothy crazy than usual. Better have a half dozen or so extra stats, too; heaven forbid your Honor be roleplayed rather than a row of dots on your sheet. I like the books for the all the spirit world stuff and as a bestiary of sorts, but beyond that I don't think I could muster up the interest to even try to make a character for it. I haaaaaate the the fake werewolf language. I can never remember what anything is and it just doesn't make loving sense for werewolves to have their own special language with no connections to any real world language. If it were based on ancient Sumerian or something I'd probably be into it, but it's just a bunch of made-up nonsense I have to keep track of. Worse, the book uses the made up words to reference things so I need to remember which kind of rage siskur-dah is and which form is which when, say, a new player is figuring out what their gifts do. It's like a solid wall in between me and liking Forsaken.
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Jan 1, 2017 19:39
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:I haaaaaate the the fake werewolf language. I can never remember what anything is and it just doesn't make loving sense for werewolves to have their own special language with no connections to any real world language. If it were based on ancient Sumerian or something I'd probably be into it, but it's just a bunch of made-up nonsense I have to keep track of. Worse, the book uses the made up words to reference things so I need to remember which kind of rage siskur-dah is and which form is which when, say, a new player is figuring out what their gifts do. It's like a solid wall in between me and liking Forsaken. ...um. actually... It is based on ancient Sumerian. It's ancient Sumerian words of related meaning, run backwards through Grimm's Law. It's also used as the language of spirits. If you go and check, the Little Road Tyrant - a 1e spirit of a traffic light - is named Red Yellow Green in this manner, and the same is true of most First Tongue words that aren't directly taken from oWolf.
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Jan 1, 2017 19:48
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I think using the first tongue to refer to werewolf forms is a good idea, just because otherwise you get confusion and repetitive sound thanks to "wolf-man" "near-wolf" and so on, but I'm really perplexed by basu-im and wasu-im and sisku-dar and so on all being official terms for game mechanics.
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Jan 1, 2017 19:57
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It being really jargon-y is a totally valid complaint; I love Werewolf but I'm not gonna pretend it's perfect. Just, the language is literally based on Sumerian run through a linguistic filter to make it seem older and more ancestral.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:00
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Huh, I didn't know that. I saw Gauru and rolled my eyes and assumed we were just making things up. I'm still rolling my eyes at Gauru actually. I hate it a little less. It's still pretty drat obtuse.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:11
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Ferrinus posted:I think using the first tongue to refer to werewolf forms is a good idea, just because otherwise you get confusion and repetitive sound thanks to "wolf-man" "near-wolf" and so on, but I'm really perplexed by basu-im and wasu-im and sisku-dar and so on all being official terms for game mechanics. I'm leaning towards this. I like the First Tongue, but it should be kept as a flavor thing.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:29
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Kavak posted:I'm leaning towards this. I like the First Tongue, but it should be kept as a flavor thing. Just imagine if you had to learn Quenya in order to get the full effect of Lord of the Rings.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:40
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:Huh, I didn't know that. I saw Gauru and rolled my eyes and assumed we were just making things up. I'm still rolling my eyes at Gauru actually. I think some of the older jargon terms are exceptions. Maybe not the form names, since Urshul and Urhan have the "ur" morpheme which is common across references to wolves in the First Tongue, but I seem to recall (some of?) the auspice names are actually the auspices from Apocalypse run backward through Grimm's Law with some tweaking. Ahroun to Rahu, Philodox to Elodoth. I dig the worldbuilding behind the existence and design of the First Tongue, but it's definitely overused in the rules and setting text where perfectly cromulent English alternatives exist. It gets really annoying trying to remember which of the tribes was the Meninna, etc., and it's not like Sacred Hunt and Death Rage aren't evocative enough phrases in English.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:40
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Yeah, the form names are genuine ("genuine") First Tongue while the auspice names are First Tongue-ified auspice names from Apocalypse. Ragabash becomes Irraka, Ahroun becomes Rahu, etc.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:57
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Speaking of, I've been meaning to run a Forsaken game set in mid-1800's Quebec based on some material I read in this thread, and while I love the game to death, one of the first things I wanted to do was really de-emphasize the use of First Tongue terminology. Especially since I was originally gonna run it for a bunch of people who never played werewolf before.
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Jan 1, 2017 22:06
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Mors Rattus posted:You know it has one, right? It's on the character sheet in the back of the book. It's been awhile, but isn't that just a list of the modifiers? I was thinking more like "here's what your stats are in each form" so you can just glance at it rather than having to do math in your head.
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Jan 1, 2017 22:35
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Pope Guilty posted:It's been awhile, but isn't that just a list of the modifiers? I was thinking more like "here's what your stats are in each form" so you can just glance at it rather than having to do math in your head. It has little boxes so you can write your modified values. The 2-page and 4-page character sheets both have this: 
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Jan 1, 2017 23:05
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:Huh, I didn't know that. I saw Gauru and rolled my eyes and assumed we were just making things up. I'm still rolling my eyes at Gauru actually. I'm no good at inventing new terms in First Tongue, especially naming spirits. When I work on Werewolf books, I just mark things up for Stew to translate into First Tongue.
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Jan 1, 2017 23:20
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Kibner posted:It has little boxes so you can write your modified values. The 2-page and 4-page character sheets both have this: Oh, nice!
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Jan 1, 2017 23:29
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In 1e, knives were usable as a weapon with Brawl. I can't find that in the 2e rules any more - was that a change? I wish there was a clear changelist somewhere. E: Never mind, found it. It's tied to the Shiv merit, your Shiv can be used with brawl. Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jan 2, 2017 |
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Jan 2, 2017 00:46
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Yawgmoth posted:Just imagine if you had to learn Quenya in order to get the full effect of Lord of the Rings. You do.
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Jan 2, 2017 01:26
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Here's a fun one! Cruac and Theban Sorcery rolls are always extended; sometimes they are contested. The core 2e materials never state if a contested extended roll is rolled once for the whole or once per roll of the extended action. I am fairly certain it's once per roll, because that appears to be the ruling in Blood Sorcery, which is one of the latest 1e books and which is referenced as still usable by 2e vampire materials except as noted in Vampire 2e. (Specifically: different time taken per roll.)
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Jan 2, 2017 02:49
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Tricky Dick Nixon posted:Speaking of, I've been meaning to run a Forsaken game set in mid-1800's Quebec based on some material I read in this thread, and while I love the game to death, one of the first things I wanted to do was really de-emphasize the use of First Tongue terminology. Especially since I was originally gonna run it for a bunch of people who never played werewolf before. I think that was my suggestion, back during the Dark Eras kickstarter. This just made my day! 
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Jan 2, 2017 02:54
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Mors Rattus posted:Here's a fun one! Cruac and Theban Sorcery rolls are always extended; sometimes they are contested. All rolls contested seems like the only way that could ever make sense, yeah. Otherwise you'd have some poor dude giving someone a -5 penalty to their effectively like hundred dice pool or some craziness. Sorcery can already do crazy enough things [Apocalypse and The Judgement Fast are pretty much cataclysmic, Apocalypse potentially to every single supernatural being in a city], making it almost impossible to resist the few spells that do give you a chance to roll against them would just be the cherry on that acid enema.
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Jan 2, 2017 03:43
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MonsieurChoc posted:I think that was my suggestion, back during the Dark Eras kickstarter. This just made my day! Yeah, it was your idea in this thread and building on it that I was basing it off of. The game never materialized in tabletop form, but I'm looking to run it as a PbP it looks like here on the forums, using the writeup I did for the Christianized Forsaken mythos and such.
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Jan 2, 2017 03:46
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I actually really like the core Forsaken mythos, myself, and all the First Tongue...though I admit, probably not great to use for rules stuff like the Death Rage or Sacred Hunt.
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Jan 2, 2017 03:53
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Anyone have some good samples on how Sleeper Servants work in Mage the Awakening? I'm making a Guardian of the Veil with a butler and I am not sure how much about magic the butler would know or can know and how they would learn about it.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:26
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Mechayahiko posted:Anyone have some good samples on how Sleeper Servants work in Mage the Awakening? I'm making a Guardian of the Veil with a butler and I am not sure how much about magic the butler would know or can know and how they would learn about it. Considering they're a sleeper and the mage is a Guardian. I'd expect the butler would know absolutely nothing about real magic. He might be part of or head of a labyrinth if the butler is interested in the occult, but that's something dedicated to hiding magic and maintaining the Veil.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:53
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IIRC this is the primary reason why having a Retainer be a Sleepwalker does not actually raise the cost of the Retainer unless they get powers out of the deal.
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Jan 4, 2017 22:32
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Mors Rattus posted:IIRC this is the primary reason why having a Retainer be a Sleepwalker does not actually raise the cost of the Retainer unless they get powers out of the deal. I can't see this in the Retainer Merit, is it somewhere else in the book? I am using Mage 2ed.
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Jan 5, 2017 01:34
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I may be remembering 1e. That said, check the sleepwalker appendix.
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Jan 5, 2017 02:56
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What are some of the better supplements to use with Awakening 2E? I think the recs I remember seeing are Left-Hand Paths and the Order splatbooks; are these wrong / bad, or are there other good things to have?
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Jan 5, 2017 03:01
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Those are all good, although the Free Council book is probably least good. Astral Realms is good for opening up "what exactly do i do in this part of the setting," although I had to do some stats conversion to make it usable for 2E. There are several "monster manual" books full of stuff you can drop right into your game, Intruders and Grimoire of Grimoires are some of the better ones.
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Jan 5, 2017 06:01
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The Order Splats are the 1st ed ones right? Left-handed paths is the only 2nd ed splat correct?
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Jan 5, 2017 17:33
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As I recall, LHP is much like Blood Sorcery in that it was published right on the cusp of the 1e/2e shift. It's an amazing book though, so even if you have to do a bit of conversion it's 100% worth it.
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Jan 5, 2017 17:41
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The Cwn Annwn Did Nothing Wrong
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Jan 5, 2017 19:12
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:The Cwn Annwn Did Nothing Wrong Except run out of vowels. (Yes, I know w is a vowel in Welsh, but it sure doesn't look it when you just skim it as a non-Welsh speaker.)
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