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Paul MaudDib posted:In large part these are gamedev/OSdev errors. Yes, you can buy your way out of it, but spending an extra $50 solves the problem forever as far as utilization is concerned. An extra 5% performance is not what is taking GTA:V from unplayable on a faster-clocked Haswell G3258 to a slower-clocked i3 Skylake. You can bitch and moan about programmers not properly coding all you want, the fact of the matter is that it happens and in those cases, HT helps. An i3 is substantially more useful than a non-HT 2 core CPU because of that real world difference.
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Nov 14, 2016 06:19
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SwissCM posted:You can bitch and moan about programmers not properly coding all you want, the fact of the matter is that it happens and in those cases, HT helps. An i3 is substantially more useful than a non-HT 2 core CPU because of that real world difference. The $170 i3 buys you pretty much nothing over the $50 unlocked Pentium, and costs three times as much. If you're going to spend $170 anyway, you might as well go for the unlocked i5 for $220. That's your "real world difference" right there. If we're just going to ignore pricing, the 6950X wins period. We're talking about maybe 1 in 10 AAA games that is so terribly programmed that it refuses to run on an equivalent 2C2T processor. And again, if open-world games are really your thing you will be vastly better off with the 4C4T than the 2C4T. The marginal benefit of the hyperthreading on a $170 i3 is in no way worth it versus picking up another shift at McDonald's and buying an unlocked i5. Or the locked i5s are actually an even trade too. There is such a thing as being so cheap you are throwing your money away on trash, and at those prices an unlocked i3 is throwing your money away on trash. You might as well just buy a FX-4350 if you are going to do that. After all, that also has 4 cores - if that's literally your only deciding factor here, GTAV will launch on it, so you will be just as able to play your open-world RPGs at trash framerates as with an i3, at a much cheaper price. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 06:22
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Paul MaudDib posted:The $170 i3 buys you pretty much nothing over the $50 unlocked Pentium, and costs three times as much. If you're going to spend $170 anyway, you might as well go for the unlocked i5 for $220. I'm talking about the benefits of HT as a technology rather than price/performance. Whatever intel prices their parts is up to them and I agree that the i3s are priced too high to really be worth it I own an i7 6700k anyway, it's just about the only consumer part that can run Forza Horizon 3 at 60fps so I'm pretty happy with it 
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Nov 14, 2016 06:55
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PerrineClostermann posted:What's the performance difference between a C2D Conroe and a Skylake Pentium? Skylake Pentium wins by a margin of about 2.5:1.
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Nov 14, 2016 07:33
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Kazinsal posted:Skylake Pentium wins by a margin of about 2.5:1. Is that clock per clock? drat.
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Nov 14, 2016 07:35
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SwissCM posted:I'm talking about the benefits of HT as a technology rather than price/performance. Whatever intel prices their parts is up to them and I agree that the i3s are priced too high to really be worth it Well, for my two cents I think the 6950X is a pretty nice part. But it doesn't matter what parts can perform at in a total vacuum where you ignore their cost. We're talking about parts in terms of where they perform in the real world against other real world parts, measured against their costs. Yeah, in a vacuum hyperthreading is better than no hyperthreading I guess. Hyperthreading is pretty great. But it's only 30% as great as having another actual core there, which is the actual decision people are making in that price bracket for the extra 300% they are spending over an unlocked Pentium's price. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 08:23
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Paul MaudDib posted:Well, for my two cents I think the 6950X is a pretty nice part. But it doesn't matter what parts can perform at in a total vacuum where you ignore their cost. We're talking about parts in terms of where they perform in the real world against other real world parts, measured against their costs. It's more of a bummer that they're selling what are likely deliberately gimped cores for market segmentation purposes, though that's capitalism for you. Zen can't come soon enough.
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Nov 14, 2016 09:53
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SwissCM posted:I own an i7 6700k anyway, it's just about the only consumer part that can run Forza Horizon 3 at 60fps so I'm pretty happy with it
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Nov 14, 2016 12:35
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SwissCM posted:It's more of a bummer that they're selling what are likely deliberately gimped cores for market segmentation purposes, though that's capitalism for you. Zen can't come soon enough. That's what all computer chip companies do though. It is way more expensive to design and manufacture separate chip designs than it is to design one chip, disable different amounts of its functionality after manufacture, and sell the disabled chips.
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Nov 14, 2016 15:34
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PerrineClostermann posted:What's the performance difference between a C2D Conroe and a Skylake Pentium? I can't answer that, but I can answer for the speed difference between a C2Q Q8400 running at 3.8Ghz and a Skylake 6700k. The answer is a lot.
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Nov 14, 2016 18:10
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PerrineClostermann posted:Is that clock per clock? drat. I'm sure there's very dramatic variation across different workloads but I'd be curious to see a breakdown of improvement by generation, because I didn't think Skylake had anything like 2.5x the IPC of Conroe on common integer tasks. I think that Sandy Bridge to Skylake is around 1.2-1.3x so if that's right it implies that Conroe->SB is around 2.0x. Conroe-Wolfdale is mostly just a die shrink so not much difference, and Nehalem-SB is also not a huge difference in my experience owning both (SB clocks a lot higher, but per clock they are similar) so this leaves us with the one generation between Wolfdale and Nehalem to make up most of the 2.0x. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 18:52
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silence_kit posted:That's what all computer chip companies do though. It is way more expensive to design and manufacture separate chip designs than it is to design one chip, disable different amounts of its functionality after manufacture, and sell the disabled chips. I think you mean differently abled. Anyway I'm sure they take the worse performers or somewhat defective ones and disable the cores, HT and what not. They are not taking perfectly good i7's and making them into i3's to sell for half the price.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:36
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They might. It could make a lot of sense to relabel a bunch of potential i5s sitting in storage as Pentiums and sell those, versus starting another production run, and paying that cost. In order for them to not ever do what I'm suggesting, Intel has to perfectly predict demand for each of the different product lines, have a perfect understanding of their manufacturing process and tune the designs to match demand. I don't think that they have that understanding. It is way easier to disable i5s and turn them into Pentiums. Intel isn't the only company doing this. Other computer chip companies probably more heavily rely on this, since they don't do the manufacturing themselves and probably aren't able to predict yields as well. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 21:58
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I feel the last i3 that was worth a drat for Gaming and the like was the overachieving i3-2100 which seemed to reach a good price/performance part and was able to play Battlefield 3/4 rather well for being a 2 core part. Then the G3258 came out and sort of stole that crown away since you could overclock it like a champ, but outside of that I agree that when you go over the $150 price point, you might as well just save your pennies and splurge on a unlocked i5 to keep things fast over the long term. If an Overclockable i3 can hit the $100-120 price point, it might be worth it for a budget HTPC build with a board and other parts you could upgrade down the line and only have to swap out the CPU if you so needed. (I thought this upgrading my HTPC to the G3258 but overall, everything I play is GPU limited by the 760, and even then, only just at 1080P so really, no need to upgrade anything much still). I do take offense to SLI 1060's. While not the most financially smart decision, you can still get some major good scaling out of SLI with 2 cards these days for games the properly support SLI and you are just going to play at 1440P/Ultrawide. That was the thing to do back with the 560Ti's where you could SLI 2 and get reliably more performance than a single 580, and it cost $150 less or more.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:16
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EdEddnEddy posted:
This is all academic because nVidia disabled SLI on GTX 1060s so that people couldn't pair them up. SLI 1060s would be loving killer, I've got one of the $210 shorty 6GB 1060s and this thing is a bigger step up from an R9-290 than I was expecting.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:21
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EdEddnEddy posted:That was the thing to do back with the 560Ti's where you could SLI 2 and get reliably more performance than a single 580, and it cost $150 less or more. I did this with the 560 Ti 448s - I couldn't pass up moving to a single 970, though - I could reliably heat my study with both of those damned things. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 22:23
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Twerk from Home posted:This is all academic because nVidia disabled SLI on GTX 1060s so that people couldn't pair them up. SLI 1060s would be loving killer, I've got one of the $210 shorty 6GB 1060s and this thing is a bigger step up from an R9-290 than I was expecting. Wait, I completely forgot that. WTF Nvidia.  Well in that case yea, drat.Need to get on that driver hacking as I was running SLI on my Intel X48 with the 560's which worked like a champ. The hack just ran to spoof the Motherboard as a 680i and everything worked perfectly. I wonder if anything like that could be done for the 1060's? BIG HEADLINE posted:I did this with the 560 Ti 448s - I couldn't pass up moving a single 970, though - I could reliably heat my study with both of those damned things. Yea I can't quite remember if mine were the 448's or not but they were the OC Zotac ones with a good cooler, but I agree that together they were space heaters.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:59
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For those of you who might not check the PC Building thread, Microcenter's just kind of broken the bank in regards to Skylake processor pricing: 6600K for $179.99: http://www.microcenter.com/product/451885/Core_i5-6600K_SkyLake_35GHz_1151_Boxed_Processor 6700K for $259.99: http://www.microcenter.com/product/451883/Core_i7-6700K_SkyLake_40GHz_LGA_1151_Boxed_Processor 6800K for $329.99: http://www.microcenter.com/product/463393/Core_i7-6800K_Broadwell_34GHz_LGA_2011-3_Boxed_Processor And this is before the extra $30 for buying with a bundled motherboard.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:13
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BIG HEADLINE posted:For those of you who might not check the PC Building thread, Microcenter's just kind of broken the bank in regards to Skylake processor pricing: drat, those are good prices... I'm still waiting to see what their Black Friday ad looks like.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:20
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VulgarandStupid posted:drat, those are good prices... I'm still waiting to see what their Black Friday ad looks like. Those *are* their Black Friday prices.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:27
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Those *are* their Black Friday prices. Yea, but last year Intel they threw in some games as well just for Black Friday. Plus I want to see if they're gonna do any better on any of the Haswells.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:34
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BIG HEADLINE posted:For those of you who might not check the PC Building thread, Microcenter's just kind of broken the bank in regards to Skylake processor pricing: Shutfvuk, wow. Welp, I think I'm getting a 6600k + 1060 this year.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:40
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BIG HEADLINE posted:For those of you who might not check the PC Building thread, Microcenter's just kind of broken the bank in regards to Skylake processor pricing: There will never be a Microcenter in my area 
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Nov 15, 2016 02:36
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PerrineClostermann posted:There will never be a Microcenter in my area Same, man. I'm so sad & keep looking in that dropdown list but they ain't never comin' to Florida.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:13
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PerrineClostermann posted:There will never be a Microcenter in my area In the last few years, I think I've gone the other way. If nothing else, Microcenter has much better CPU/mobo bundle deals.
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Nov 15, 2016 10:24
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Josh Lyman posted:I used to think Fry's was better than Microcenter, in part because my local Microcenter was kinda run down like a K-Mart from 1965 and all the Fry's I had visited were in Silicon Valley. Thats the bummer, Frys used to have some killer CPU/MB combos where the CPU was cheap, and the MB was practically free. Sure they were cheap ECS boards, but while they were no frills, they actually never let me down on the dozen or so builds I did with them. Then they disappeared and now there aren't near as many killer deals from them as there once was, could have been people abusing the hell out of the No Restocking Fee returns. Though their willingness to match Internet prices keeps things local if you need it in a pinch rather than ordered.
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Nov 15, 2016 18:07
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There might be a holiday game bundle with i7's this year. A bunch of building vendors are advertising it. Anyway this is just something I saw that may or may not happen, hopefully it does. https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/landingpages/Intel/holidaybundle2016/
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Nov 16, 2016 01:32
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BIG HEADLINE posted:For those of you who might not check the PC Building thread, Microcenter's just kind of broken the bank in regards to Skylake processor pricing: picking up an ASUS Z170-E + i5-6600k for $270 after taxes and rebates. 
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Nov 16, 2016 02:49
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Lower end stuff is on sale too for anyone looking for a cheaper budget build.
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Nov 16, 2016 06:57
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If intel does put overclocking/enthusiast stuff on the 2k pin socket, I really hope more mobo vendors make mini itx boards. Microcenter doesn't have any mini itx 2011 boards  I have a 4690k, and the 6800k seems to be a good way to upgrade to ddr4.
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Nov 16, 2016 08:45
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:If intel does put overclocking/enthusiast stuff on the 2k pin socket, I really hope more mobo vendors make mini itx boards. Microcenter doesn't have any mini itx 2011 boards Only ASRock ever made an ITX X99 board, and damned if it isn't the busiest board I've ever seen:  I hope whoever managed that got a closer parking space. Christ.
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Nov 16, 2016 08:58
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Yup, exactly... It even has an M2 slot.
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Nov 16, 2016 09:35
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Only ASRock ever made an ITX X99 board, and damned if it isn't the busiest board I've ever seen: Yeah, I've got an Asus MicroATX X99 and it's still insane to deal with the size of when putting it together.
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Nov 16, 2016 10:29
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Only ASRock ever made an ITX X99 board, and damned if it isn't the busiest board I've ever seen: My god, the silk screen text crammed in between the dimm slots for components cm away.
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Nov 16, 2016 13:02
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Only ASRock ever made an ITX X99 board, and damned if it isn't the busiest board I've ever seen: I am the external sideways CMOS battery that's pretending it's 1989 again. Edit: isn't restricting x99 to dual-channel RAM kinda gimping the platform, or is it not a big deal, performance-wise?
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Nov 16, 2016 14:21
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Putting x99 in mini itx is restrictive in the first place, so we're already in a use case where someone isn't after the full feature set of the platform.
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Nov 16, 2016 14:27
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JnnyThndrs posted:I am the external sideways CMOS battery that's pretending it's 1989 again. For most applications quad vs dual doesn't really do anything. Especially gaming.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:01
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That thing still does have dual gigabit Intel ports and even Sata Express shoehorned into the thing. That is one awesome feature filled little board.  If you wanted your NAS box to also encode 4K for you, that little thing would fit the bill. Hell it could be your NAS and VM server all in a shoe box.
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Nov 16, 2016 17:39
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I'd be looking at Xeon D boards before that board, but that's a really impressive layout. Speaking of Xeon D, anyone know if there's anything happening to that line-up next year? I'm still rocking an E3-1230v1 for my primary server and motherboard selection combined with the power draw of something I'd like to run near load 24/7 is making me look at a replacement.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:35
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Last I heard, there was going to be a second generation of Xeon-D called Denverton. It's based on Cherry Trail and has DDR4 support.
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Nov 16, 2016 20:34
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