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The TPM pod racer droids also were really cool looking. Granted that might be because I played the pod racing game so much as a kid, TPM had some great games surprisingly.
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Jan 22, 2016 22:49
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piratepilates posted:The TPM pod racer droids also were really cool looking. If Pod racing had been a downhill thing we would probably still be playing Star Wars SSX games today.
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Jan 22, 2016 22:54
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I just really love pod racing for some god drat reason. If the other prequels had a lot of pod racing I probably would have loved them, the hell is wrong with me
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Jan 22, 2016 22:57
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Neurolimal posted:They both murdered or tried to murder in defense of what they held dear (for Samuel Jackson the safety and freedom of the galaxy, for Vader his son). Vader used his compassionate emotions. He let the love flow through him. Vader didn't murder anyone. The Emperor himself was in the process of murdering Vader's defeated and defenseless son. The only way to stop the Emperor from murdering everyone with lightning was to throw him down the pit. Contrast this with Mace, who truly believed that Palpatine had expended his power and was helpless. Mace wanted to murder Palpatine because he didn't trust the democratic institutions of the Republic to see Palpatine for what he was and reject him. The point is, if Mace truly believed that, then it meant that the Sith had already won, and the Republic was already lost. Murdering Palpatine wouldn't change that. All it would do is satisfy the Jedi's lust for revenge.
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Jan 22, 2016 22:59
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I liked the two on the couch a lot. They were super visually interesting to me and the fat boy looks like Bosk if he let himself go.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:01
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Cnut really is great.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:02
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quote:Vader didn't murder anyone. Regional Manager Vader killed all the youngin's, but that was for his wife not his son. quote:The point is, if Mace truly believed that, then it meant that the Sith had already won, and the Republic was already lost. Murdering Palpatine wouldn't change that. All it would do is satisfy the Jedi's lust for revenge. It also would have brought balance to the Force, apparently.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:03
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Cnut the Great posted:Anyway, I don't know much about Lacanian psychology but here's a good article on StarWars.com about the influence of Jungian psychology on the Star Wars series: It's interesting that mastering one's Shadow involves embracing it as part of you, as a kid I always saw Luke as simply rejecting the Dark Side entirely, but your recent postings have convinced me otherwise. It also would seem that some of the people involved with TFA agree, as that artbook has them talking about Luke "embracing his dark side" rather than rejecting it.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:03
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The First Order spy in the castle cantina reminded me of the Tonnika sisters. Or, I guess, as the con artists who were pretending to be the Tonnika sisters? The EU was dumb.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:06
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Lt. Danger posted:Okay, fair enough, but at the same time the guy is so big he a) cannot be contained within the frame and b) encapsulates his girlfriend in the crook of his arm. She is active, getting up and walking away to secretly call the villains, with camera following. He is furniture. This is not a partnership of equals. That's fair; I obviously wasn't persuasive enough in my reading for you, and that's cool. I don't have time to properly defend it, but I will say that it's important to note that her secret tip to the Empire was a betrayal of most of her characterization; he is furniture, but if she never took on a hostile role she would just as much be glued to that couch and powerless to the camera's attention as all the other friendly aliens. What preserves, in my view, the original characterization is the fact that her subversive homage is not what makes her a villain, and even acts as appropriate guise to the patrons. Maleficent Homage the Background Character holds all those traits and statements, when she chooses to leave her position and become an integral character is when she becomes an entirely different and nefarious character (independent of her homage and BDSM connotations, since Maleficent the Background Character had those and was a normal peaceful patron). Irregardless of all this, I hope I've at least made enough suggestions to make my enjoyment of them justified in your eyes. 
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Jan 22, 2016 23:07
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RBA Starblade posted:It also would have brought balance to the Force, apparently. No, it wouldn't have. That's why Mace was destined not to succeed. Mace would have destroyed the Sith, but he wouldn't have brought balance back to the Force. That's an outcome precluded by the prophecy, and so it didn't happen.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:09
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From a simple perspective: rejecting something that makes up half the universe is not good. Even if that thing is "bad". Like in the babadook, the monster isn't destroyed, it is embraced as a member of the household.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:09
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Jack Gladney posted:So in Episode I why does the fake queen send Natalie Portman to clean R2D2? Is that like the only way they have left to amuse themselves because they're so debauched and isolated? Like the fake queen sends the real one on pretend errands for sick thrills like Marie Antoinette? I don't think it's for sick thrills as much as it's just a private joke between them, just like how Qui-Gon amuses himself by telling Padmé the queen doesn't need to find out what he's doing even though he knows full well who she really is. In this case, we get a little look at the kind of relationship the real queen has with her decoy without spoiling the twist. In-story, it also happens to make the deception more convincing in front of some outsiders.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:12
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Neurolimal posted:Irregardless of all this, I hope I've at least made enough suggestions to make my enjoyment of them justified in your eyes. I read it as more straightforward but hey, who am I to tell you not to enjoy something.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:14
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SHISHKABOB posted:From a simple perspective: rejecting something that makes up half the universe is not good. Even if that thing is "bad". Like in the babadook, the monster isn't destroyed, it is embraced as a member of the household. Well, I mean that specifically in the context of the Star Wars universe as a child I saw the Manichean(though I obviously didn't think of it by that name) conflict of the original films to include how the Dark Side works(i.e. there's no "embracing the Dark Side and mastering it" there's only rejecting its call entirely.)
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Jan 22, 2016 23:16
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SHISHKABOB posted:From a simple perspective: rejecting something that makes up half the universe is not good. Even if that thing is "bad". Like in the babadook, the monster isn't destroyed, it is embraced as a member of the household. As a minor derail: its kind of weird how, despite the ending of ROTJ being quite clear on the existence of a grey area in the force, and that sith lords can do good things, that Lucasfilm was apparently quite strict on the good/bad split in videogames and a few other adaptations. Considering that all of them take place before ROTJ, I guess Lucas wanted the throne room scene to be a revolutionary moment; that by accepting and mastering both the dark side in defeating Vader and the light side in forgiving him, Luke balances the force and allows for shades outside of black/white, which in turn allows Vader a redemptive final act.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:17
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Jack Gladney posted:So in Episode I why does the fake queen send Natalie Portman to clean R2D2? Is that like the only way they have left to amuse themselves because they're so debauched and isolated? Like the fake queen sends the real one on pretend errands for sick thrills like Marie Antoinette? Even outside of that, sending Padme to do random tasks away from the decoy helps to keep up her cover, and allows her to begin to engage with these new acquaintances without the trappings of her title. She meets and chats with Jar Jar while she's cleaning R2, for instance, something she wouldn't have done as the queen.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:21
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rear end Catchcum posted:Why is SuperMechagodzila always quoting some rando from the EU? 
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Jan 22, 2016 23:51
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Cnut the Great posted:No, it wouldn't have. That's why Mace was destined not to succeed. Mace would have destroyed the Sith, but he wouldn't have brought balance back to the Force. That's an outcome precluded by the prophecy, and so it didn't happen. Since it was about destroying the Sith and not equal balance, if Anakin hadn't gone all in on it and let him kill him, then that would have led to it necessarily. Of course, he did, so it didn't.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:51
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RBA Starblade posted:Since it was about destroying the Sith and not equal balance, if Anakin hadn't gone all in on it and let him kill him, then that would have led to it necessarily. Of course, he did, so it didn't. It's just as likely that Anakin would have fell anyway. Maybe he's not "the Sith" specifically but the dude would be pretty shaken up if the (seemingly) only way to save his wife was taken away from him.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:54
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Neurolimal posted:As a minor derail: its kind of weird how, despite the ending of ROTJ being quite clear on the existence of a grey area in the force, and that sith lords can do good things, that Lucasfilm was apparently quite strict on the good/bad split in videogames and a few other adaptations. It's not a matter of there being a spot in the force where you can be OK as according to some force prophecy, instead it's about Christian atheism. Like, be a cool and good Christian, but don't be subsumed by the unimportant stuff like all the crap that Christianity has argued about in Europe in regards to being weird sticklers for interpretation. Like why did it matter what language you were taught the message of Christ in? It doesn't! But oh no it's sacred and special and we must be holy about it because of these couple sentences and how we interpreted them based on our previous conceptions and cultural values and blah blah blah. What does Jesus say: he says that he is in everyone. He says that only through him will you reach the "kingdom of heaven". He says that the church is the people. The people are the congregation. The congregation is the church. He is the church. You are the church. The only way to "salvation" is through everyone eelse. Some Jesus guy doesn't matter. What matters is you and me and us being Christians to each other. Christians in the good way like give all your money to the poor, help the meek, love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, etc. Jesus is a man and Jesus is God, thus God is people thus we are God and we are Jesus. The METHODOLOGY of the "light side "of the force as taught by the Jedi temple people is the stupid poo poo that religions have done for millennia. The dark side of the force in this methodology is bad stuff that works to undermine the "light side". But there isn't really this dichotomy between good and evil like they think or pretend there is. When they try to balance entirely on one end of the plank of the other they fall the gently caress off and die. The path to enlightenment is in balance. Idk, I need to read more stuff about this stuff.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:55
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computer parts posted:It's just as likely that Anakin would have fell anyway. Maybe he's not "the Sith" specifically but the dude would be pretty shaken up if the (seemingly) only way to save his wife was taken away from him. I'd be curious to see how that would play out, given that Palpatine, rather than being the thing that could save Padme, was actually the catalyst for her death.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:00
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To further support the "light side" simply meaning embracing and incorporating the dark as a small part of a good existence, you have only to compare the two forms of eternal life on offer in Revenge of the Sith: immortality through not dying, and immortality through accepting death.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:11
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IMO the funniest thing is how little SMG par takes in these kinds of discussions. Usually it's that hbomberguy. (Who may be a little bit on the hot air side but that's between me and you  )
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Jan 23, 2016 00:12
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Beeez posted:It's interesting that mastering one's Shadow involves embracing it as part of you, as a kid I always saw Luke as simply rejecting the Dark Side entirely, but your recent postings have convinced me otherwise. It also would seem that some of the people involved with TFA agree, as that artbook has them talking about Luke "embracing his dark side" rather than rejecting it. Well, a lot of people raised in a Western religio-cultural context have a hard time with the idea that the ideal state of the world is one which still contains some non-zero amount of evil. The refusal of certain groups to accept this idea is the reason the problem of evil exists. Lucas himself sidesteps this problem by apparently holding the somewhat heretical view that the Christian God and the devil are complementary opposites equivalent to the forces of yin and yang: quote:"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil--everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in 'Star Wars.'" As you can see from the above excerpt, the focus on balance in Star Wars doesn't mean that you should actively strive to cultivate and encourage evil impulses within yourself. I think that's what a lot of people interpret it as, and it's why they have such a problem accepting the moral message of Star Wars. But the actual idea is that evil more often represents the path of least resistance, whereas good more often requires great effort and sacrifice on the part of groups and individuals. So in order for proper balance to be maintained, people must constantly strive to overcome their evil impulses, lest they become overwhelmed by them. The same problem doesn't exist when it comes to good impulses. It's theoretically possible to get into a situation where the forces of good have become too powerful and the forces of evil too weak, but it's much harder. I think one way that could theoretically happen is if the Jedi were to insist that their strict philosophy of non-attachment be followed by every single person in the galaxy, and by some miracle everyone was able to comply. A world completely devoid of passion and conflict probably wouldn't be a world worth living in. That's the world depicted in THX 1138. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 00:14
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piratepilates posted:I just really love pod racing for some god drat reason. If the other prequels had a lot of pod racing I probably would have loved them, the hell is wrong with me Because Pod Racing is, despite the incessant bitching about it, actually a really fun sequence in the film, and the games based on it managed to capture the fun of it. Especially the arcade version which ruled. I mean, the movie made what is effectively Space NASCAR cool. No its not space Formula 1, I will brook no argument.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:17
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Man, I played the everloving poo poo out of Star Wars Podracing at the arcade. What a fun game.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:19
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Phylodox posted:I'd be curious to see how that would play out, given that Palpatine, rather than being the thing that could save Padme, was actually the catalyst for her death. Anakin views the Jedi as corrupt and uncontrollable (not really that far from the truth), gets a message from Palpatine that explains about Order 66 et all*, Anakin orchestrates a coup/Civil War against the Jedi, rest of the movie plays out similarly. Now granted this doesn't lead into the OT because Palpatine is dead, but it's still interesting to think about. *Honestly knowing Palpatine it's quite likely he had an Order 66 message ready to be broadcast in the event of his death anyway.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:19
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computer parts posted:Anakin views the Jedi as corrupt and uncontrollable (not really that far from the truth), gets a message from Palpatine that explains about Order 66 et all*, Anakin orchestrates a coup/Civil War against the Jedi, rest of the movie plays out similarly. Mostly I'm just imagining Anakin getting more and more paranoid and irrationally overprotective as the years go by and Padme just keeps...not dying. Bonus points if she insists on constantly doing needlessly dangerous activities.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:22
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What was Anakin's endgame with Padme, anyway? Did he think he was gonna become some supremely incredible and powerful Jedi (with a seat on the council) who had a secret wife and twin children that he'd just assume nobody would find out about? Granted, the worst thing that would have happened to him had the Jedi found out is that he'd be expelled from the order, but I doubt that's what he would have wanted.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:25
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Gonz posted:What was Anakin's endgame with Padme, anyway? Did he think he was gonna become some supremely incredible and powerful Jedi (with a seat on the council) who had a secret wife and twin children that he'd just assume nobody would find out about? I think not really having an endgame is often Anakin's problem. That said, I'm sure siding with Ol' Palpatations was his insurance that the Jedi couldn't do poo poo to punish him and he and his wife could be safe seeing as how all their enemies would be dead.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:27
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Cnut the Great posted:Well, a lot of people raised in a Western religio-cultural context have a hard time with the idea that the ideal state of the world is one which still contains some non-zero amount of evil. The refusal of certain groups to accept this idea is the reason the problem of evil exists. Well, I actually don't have trouble accepting the idea that we'll never live in a world devoid of evil, it's more like being a kid back then I had misinterpreted some of the themes surrounding the Force. I had thought, for a time, that the whole "Bringing balance to the Force means killing the Sith" concept, as well as the Manichean nature of the conflict in the original trilogy, indicated that the Dark Side itself was the malignant imbalance in the Force, and the only evil that could exist in the galaxy without imbalancing the Force would be the more mundane, less metaphysical evil of people like Boba Fett and Jabba(well, not them specifically because they're dead, but people like them.) But in my more recent delving back into Star Wars and reading your posts I've realized it's more like the Sith, and especially Palpatine, were the imbalance in the Force, and the Dark Side can still exist without creating an imbalance in the Force. Which I guess means all the other Dark Side people in the "Legends" material and the new Canon Dark Siders like Snoke and the Knights of Ren can technically exist despite what Anakin did.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:29
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RBA Starblade posted:Since it was about destroying the Sith and not equal balance, if Anakin hadn't gone all in on it and let him kill him, then that would have led to it necessarily. Of course, he did, so it didn't. The prophecy was about destroying the Sith as the cause of the imbalance. By the time of Episode III, the imbalance was already self-sustaining. It didn't need the Sith anymore. The Sith were no longer the cause. Evil was everywhere. The transformation of the Republic into the Empire was greeted with thunderous applause. But by the time of Episode VI, the galaxy at large had gradually come to recognize Palpatine and the Empire for what they really were. The people rose up in resistance against the Emperor's rule. It was at that point that the only thing standing in the way of a restored balance was the unassailable power of the Sith. Anakin/Vader restored balance by removing the final obstacles preventing it, which were Sidious and himself, thus fulfilling the prophecy. The prophecy was merely a description of future events which were inevitable and unavoidable. It wasn't a how-to guide for saving the galaxy. That's what the Jedi thought it was, but it wasn't. Anakin/Vader destroyed the Emperor because it was the only way to stop him from murdering his son. It had nothing to do with the prophecy or destroying the Sith. It had to do with Anakin being a good person.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:37
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Barudak posted:I think not really having an endgame is often Anakin's problem. That said, I'm sure siding with Ol' Palpatations was his insurance that the Jedi couldn't do poo poo to punish him and he and his wife could be safe seeing as how all their enemies would be dead. Yeah, but let's assume he never becomes Vader and allows Sam Jackson to kill Paul Saltines. The Galactic Empire never happens, the Clone Wars are over, and the Jedi status quo remains. Meanwhile, he's still married to a woman who's preggo with twins. You never thought that through, Anakin, you doofus.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:39
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Gonz posted:What was Anakin's endgame with Padme, anyway? Did he think he was gonna become some supremely incredible and powerful Jedi (with a seat on the council) who had a secret wife and twin children that he'd just assume nobody would find out about? His endgame was to get some cookie, and it's not like being a celibate was helping him think straight.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:40
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:His endgame was to get some cookie, and it's not like being a celibate was helping him think straight. Good point. This is also true.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:41
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Cnut the Great posted:Say whatever you will about the ideas of thinkers like Jung and Freud, but what you can't deny is that George Lucas made extensive use of them in his work. For that reason alone, it makes sense to analyze the films through those lenses. The prequels themselves are evidence of such. Keep in mind that Episode 1 is a satirical take on the 'Frog Prince' story. Things of course go awry. To the chagrin of many, the prequel films rebuke the Jungian, New Age Spirituality of the 'OT' by supplanting that tale of Luke Skywalker (where Luke ostensibly achieves a cosmic balance of masculine and feminine 'principles', light and dark, blah, blah, etc.) with the greater saga of the diabolical Darth Vader (who does not bring peace, but a sword). In any case, spotting specific references in Lucas' work is unnecessary. If Jung can only explain works that make deliberate reference to Jung, then what use is his thought?
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Jan 23, 2016 00:42
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PADME, I HAVE TO INSIST YOU GET A SPACE ABORTION OR I WILL LOSE MY WIZARD JOB
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Jan 23, 2016 00:42
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Cnut the Great posted:The prophecy was about destroying the Sith as the cause of the imbalance. By the time of Episode III, the imbalance was already self-sustaining. It didn't need the Sith anymore. The Sith were no longer the cause. Evil was everywhere. The transformation of the Republic into the Empire was greeted with thunderous applause. Yes I think the right reading. I was not being flippant when I said the prophecy never said anything about killing most of the Jedi.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:43
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Gonz posted:Yeah, but let's assume he never becomes Vader and allows Sam Jackson to kill Paul Saltines. The Galactic Empire never happens, the Clone Wars are over, and the Jedi status quo remains. Meanwhile, he's still married to a woman who's preggo with twins. You never thought that through, Anakin, you doofus. Well there are the ones like Dooku who left the order and apparently weren't hounded to the ends of the earth. I would assume after helping Mace Windu kill Palps, Anakin is pressured into retirement rather than killed by the now-galactic ruling Jedi Council, and his children are claimed to have been conceived after he left the order and anyone who disagrees gets a nice Jedi Fatwah placed on their head. Alternately, he and his wife are assassinated but not before the children are safely hidden. Years later, Leia Skywalker grows up on Takodana where eventually she gets swept up in the anti-Jedi rebellion. She eventually confronts and kills Obi-Wan Kenobi, First of the Masters, and states that she is a Sith, like her father before her. Barudak fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 00:45
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