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rannum posted:Just, for reference, here is what the options to take into stadium 2 are for this challenge (remember, level 9) because it cannot be underlined enough how aggressively annoying this challenge would be there I don't see what the problem is. You have mah best boy Jigglypuff as an option. Dunno why there's any other discussion about which pokemon to take (yes I know Jigglypuff isn't competitively viable, but I will shank you before I admit it)
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Apr 2, 2021 03:32
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WrightOfWay posted:Totodile is the speedrun pick! It's like you want me to fight you
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Apr 2, 2021 03:41
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Zore posted:I was talking about Tangrowth since Tangela isn't available in any of D/P/Pl This is actually incorrect - Tangela is available in the Great Marsh in Platinum.
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Apr 2, 2021 03:47
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BlazetheInferno posted:This is actually incorrect - Tangela is available in the Great Marsh in Platinum. Yeah but that means you'd have to willingly participate in the Great Marsh.
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Apr 2, 2021 04:01
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Oh hell yeah, I am definitely putting the GSC starter up to a vote. 
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Apr 2, 2021 04:29
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Also, I'd intended to do a Robopon update as an April Fool's joke but then I realized that would mean I'd have to play Robopon.
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Apr 2, 2021 05:31
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PMush Perfect posted:Also, I'd intended to do a Robopon update as an April Fool's joke but then I realized that would mean I'd have to play Robopon. Robotrek is the superior robot-based collection game from that era, anyway.  Also, to anyone who says Falkner isn't extremely hard, that's probably due to getting to be a higher level than him, which is how I eventually won back when I was like ten years old. Also, keep in mind, this is "hard" in comparison to other first gym leaders in the series, so if you want to put him on an objective scale, he's perhaps better described as "the only one that isn't a complete joke".
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Apr 2, 2021 07:12
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Or we can crystal crash and really mix it up, it's fully compatible with stadium 2 and mixes things up a ton. Also may be harder by a mile who knows!
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Apr 2, 2021 07:18
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EclecticTastes posted:Robotrek is the superior robot-based collection game from that era, anyway. Brock is really hard in Yellow if you refuse to use a different pokemon other than your starter. Not that 7 year old me would know anything about that.
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Apr 2, 2021 07:53
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I found Roxanne more difficult than Falkner.
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Apr 2, 2021 09:08
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WrightOfWay posted:Totodile is the speedrun pick! I did a Crystal race a few years ago with a couple friends. One of them read up on spreedrun strats and optimal routes to take and everything. He picked Cyndaquil as his starter. I didn't prepare at all beyond deciding I would pick Totodile and just power level it. Pro Speedrun guy got repeatedly steamrolled by Whitney and rage quit.  I ended up winning the race because the other guy got horribly lost in the Rocket Lair and I was way ahead of him, plus it was getting late and we were all tired. Victory by default to me and my pal Totodile!
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Apr 2, 2021 12:27
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PMush Perfect posted:Also, I'd intended to do a Robopon update as an April Fool's joke but then I realized that would mean I'd have to play Robopon.
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Apr 2, 2021 13:05
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WrightOfWay posted:Totodile is the speedrun pick! Chikorita is garbage in the speedrun due to the type weakness to the first two gyms, poor offensive stats, and very limited coverage moves, so much so that it's basically non-viable.
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Apr 2, 2021 14:38
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Gen 2 Rage is grows in power twice as quickly as Gen 1 Rage. Which sounds like a comment about fandom.
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Apr 2, 2021 19:00
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PMush Perfect posted:Gen 2 Rage is grows in power twice as quickly as Gen 1 Rage. (this is a joke about how I was a small child at the time)
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Apr 2, 2021 19:07
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Good news, everyone, my slightly flagging drive to push through this next part of the LP (without procrastinating for weeks or months again) was reignited by realizations about what I could do with the grand finale, and that I will never be able to do them if I don’t finish. It’s still a ways away, but I know exactly what the final update will be. And it will be GLORIOUS. 
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Apr 2, 2021 20:50
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So, you guys remember the early parts of Stadium, when we were using the same crappy unevolved Pokemon as the AI, but they also had better moves? Those were fun times, huh? gently caress the Petit Cup. Update finally coming later today.
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Apr 5, 2021 00:19
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I didn't even know Jigglypuff could learn Blizzard. Which is weird because when I first played Pokemon Red, nine-year-old me basically soloed the game with Wigglytuff (which I evolved mere minutes after catching Jigglypuff using the Moon Stone found in Mt. Moon), using every TM I found on it if it was possible, so one would think I'd have learned which moves it could learn. Also then I got to Agatha and the only moves it had were Normal-type. Fortunately I got Blue version not long after that point so I could try the game again but actually, like, have something akin to a plan.
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Apr 5, 2021 00:37
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I love Ice Beam because like, everyone can learn it, it's one of the handier TM's to have on hand, and yet you never expect it to be aimed in your direction
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Apr 5, 2021 00:41
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Stadium move sets are so hilariously confusing. Like look at that poo poo: psyduck gets surf, ice beam, rest and... scratch? Uh sure, stadium, but I feel like one of these things is not like the others.
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Apr 5, 2021 01:00
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I will say stadium the ohko moves seem to only come out when the AI knows that it will hit. also gently caress that eevee I think that thing was the only thing that ended up being a wall to me when I went through the other day.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:15
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Route 30: Can It Tough It Out?   We've reached the end of an era, friends. This is the last update where we'll be booting up Pokemon Blue as anything but something for Stadium to read teams off of. There are still several cups to go, but the prep for all of them was roughly the same, and not interesting enough to drag out into any more full updates.    I got some Pokemon, pulled out the EXP. ALL, and grinded on 3x speed through the Elite Four a billion times with Mewtwo until everyone was the right level. This was done completely legitimately without any Rare Candy shenanigans or save editing asfarasyouknow.  The next format we're moving onto is the Petit Cup, with a level range of level 25 to 30. It's by far the most restrictive in terms of species, and resembles a format known as Little Cup, where the only Pokemon allowed are ones who can evolve, but haven't. However, Petit Cup has and addition, and another restriction. First, unevolved Pokemon who don't have another form (Farfetch'd, Ditto, etc.) are allowed in Petit Cup. Second, allowed Pokemon cannot be taller than 2 meters (6'8") or heavier than 20 kg (44 lbs), and this arbitrary restriction keeps out many otherwise-eligible Pokemon I'd love to use, including Tentacool, Ponyta, Mankey, and Venonat, as well as Little Cup all-stars like Staryu, Rhyhorn, and Doduo. We couldn't use those last three anyways because those species are retired, but you get the idea.  I did what I could with the limited stock we have. DUX, my old HM slave, is still our best Flying option despite having a moveslot permanently taken up by Cut, thanks to learning both Swords Dance and Sand Attack by level-up. BUMP returns from way back in Vermillion, now at his natural level, and the only choice for STAB Ground at our level.  After talking it up the entire LP, I finally have a chance to use Bellsprout, and ZESTY gets two TMs that push it from good to great. Turns out that being fast enough to reliably put things to sleep as soon as they wake up is busted in Gen 1. Who knew? On a similar note, YAMS is even faster, though significantly weaker and with a less accurate move, Hypnosis barely better than a coin flip. Surf is still Surf, though, and Substitute should hopefully provide some margin for error.  Lastly, BIG MACHO (who is actually the second Machop/Machoke with this name) and CHOW fill out the roster of physical attackers, with CHOW for when I don't need my other Level 30, ZESTY, and BIG MACHO for when I do.      Like with the Pika Cup, the first couple of Trainers don't really have a whole lot to threaten me with, and I want to demolish them quickly to get the Continues I need to proceed.     It isn't particularly difficult.   I missed a screenshot here, but you get the idea.   The Nerd provides a more dangerous obstacle. With each of his Pokemon packing either Self Destruct or Explosion, and the AI using it at the slightest provocation, he makes it very difficult to get a flawless victory. His third Pokemon won't use the move, in order to avoid an auto-loss, but most of their movepools are underwhelming, so he's more annoying than actively dangerous.   With careful switching, Dig spam, and a bit of luck, I can even still sometimes get a continue, especially if he brings the Pokemon with embarassingly low Attack like Gastly and Voltorb. It's still not a sure thing, but it's doable.   I could bring my own Gastly and/or Geodude to neuter his gimmick, but their disappointing movepools would leave them dead weight and a waste of a teamslot in the other seven battles. This is a position built entirely on theoretical knowledge, and not at all on previous attempts at this cup with a different team.    The Sailor and Jr. Girl bring the battles back to being simple again.     The Sailor only has one Pokemon that can realistically stop ZESTY's combination of Sleep Powder, Growth, and Mega Drain, Spearow, and it's instead neutered by YAMS's Substitute and Hypnosis.     And the Jr. Girl has nothing but nothing that can stand up against CHOW once he gets off a Focus Energy and blasts through her team with STAB critical hit Hyper Fangs. It's possible that, with poor luck, one of them can disrupt the strategy with sleep or confusion, but YAMS and BIG MACHO are ready to pick up the slack.    Same story with the Jr. Boy.     Though he can at least prove mildly threatening because of his love for accuracy-dropping moves and the small but nonzero chance of a burn from Charmander's Ember. If he doesn't land one of those on his first turn, though, we return to the days of the great and terrible power of 120 BP Hyper Fangs.  I hope DOG is proud of his son, because I sure as hell am. Rounds 1-6 Losses*: 0 *With this particular team. Just like in the Pika Cup (and many of the upcoming cups), it's really only the last two trainers who provide a serious threat. Unlike the previous six, who had movesets that were either gimmicky or at least somewhat limited, these two have crammed their teams full of high-power TMs, usually including at least one extremely solid STAB attack.    A Lass is again the seventh opponent, and she again has an extremely formidable team. In some ways, I'd actually call it more dangerous than the eighth opponent. Even the worst Pokemon here, Jigglypuff, has Sing and the 120 BP Mega Kick. With STAB, that's 180 BP, and Jigglypuff's 45 base Attack is much more threatening when our bulkiest Pokemon is Bellsprout. And I can't use ZESTY anyways because we desperately need CHOW's offensive power here, and half of her team has at least one move that completely fucks up the poor bell.   Hoping for either Pikachu or Vulpix, I opened with BUMP. Instead, I see Eevee. Good news, that means no Kabuto.     Bad news, a Level 30 Eevee is surprisingly bulky, and hits tremendously hard with STAB Double-Edge.   BUMP survives with a single point of HP, but Eevee has Quick Attack, so rather than give it the free kill, I decide to swap Pokemon. BIG MACHO is decently bulky, and can probably take Eevee out with a single Submission. It'd be a two-for-one trade, probably, but it'd be worth it if it cleared the way for a CHOW sweep.   Unfortunately, Eevee crits on the Quick Attack I predicted, which puts BIG MACHO in range for a Double-Edge kill.   Rather than lose BUMP or let CHOW get demolished, I decide to let BIG MACHO go down. There was also a slim chance of him surviving with a sliver of health and getting in a suicide Submission, but we weren't that lucky. It doesn't even take recoil damage from the Double-Edge because of Stadium's recoil move glitch.   So, we're essentially down 3-1 against an Eevee with plenty of gas left. I have two choices here. Either I go for the Focus Energy, and try for the KO, and hope that an unboosted Rattata and a one HP Diglett (which no longer has any chance against either of the Pokemon I brought it for) can clear out an entire team... or I go for a Focus Energy, and hope Eevee doesn't decide to use Sand Attack, Toxic, or get another critical hit Quick Attack.     I decide to go for the Hyper Fang. From hell's heart, better to die on your feet, etc. etc. CHOW eats a Quick Attack, but also being Level 30, it doesn't take quite as much as I was afraid it would. That is now her most dangerous Pokemon down, but she still has two more.   Her next Pokemon is Clefairy, who gets in a very ugly slugging match with CHOW. Not ugly in damage dealt, although that's also not fun. Ugly because if Sing hits, or Body Slam's paralysis chance procs, it doesn't matter what her third Pokemon is, because it will win.   Thankfully, that doesn't happen, and CHOW is in position to KO with a second Hyper Fang.     So, funny story, did you know that Hyper Fang only has 90% accuracy?   The next after that Hyper Fang does hit home, though, and that leaves us in an interesting position. The Pokemon I most want to see is Jigglypuff, hoping for a miss on either Mega Kick or Sing. It's also the only option that doesn't have Quick Attack (and thus, isn't guaranteed to also KO BUMP). If Vulpix or Pikachu comes out, I need to crit with Hyper Fang, because there's no way CHOW survives either a Thunderbolt or a Fire Blast in his current condition. Fire Blast at least has a miss chance, so even though it's bulkier, I think I'd still rather see it than Pikachu.  Oh, son of a bitch. Well, we're in a pickle. Rattata has about a 14% critical hit chance, unboosted. If we score that crit, Pikachu goes down. If we don't, we have so pray that Pikachu uses Double Team, because Thunderbolt is a clean kill, and Thunder Wave all but guarantees we lose next turn instead. Either way, our only other remaining Pokemon is dropping to another Quick Attack not long after.   Good news, Quick Attack crits. Bad news, it's not my Quick Attack. In certain situations, the AI will use a weaker move, especially Quick Attack, if it thinks it'll still be enough to KO. Except a normal Quick Attack wouldn't have had even a chance of KOing. The AI made a move that should've thrown the game, and hit the chance to possibly still win anyways.   Thanks to some combinations of luck and good IVs, CHOW manages to just barely survive, and score the (not actually guaranteed!) KO.   Losses*: 0 *With this particular team. ...oh God, that wasn't even the last battle, we still have one more left.    Our last opponent is a PokeManiac. Two of his Pokemon, the Nidos, lack a powerful STAB attack, and are thus rather less threatening, but the other four are each multiple different kinds of terrifying, with powerful STABs, coverage, and support moves. Dratini, despite lacking STAB, deserves special mention for not just having Thunder Wave + Wrap, but also an attacking move that is guaranteed to deal exactly 40 damage, which 2HKOs almost our entire team, with one chain of Wrap making up the difference.     "Oh, he started with Nidoran," said the fool, "I have a safe setup for Focus Energy."   The fool was wrong. "Well, alright," said the fool, "I'll just get in the crit Hyper Fang and clean up the rest of his team like I did those other saps."   The fool was wrong again. "Well, that sucks, but THIS hit will KO, at least."     I think you can see where I'm going with this. Fun Fact: This is the point where this becomes the update with the most images, a record previously held by Route 13, the one with all the fishing, and followed close behind, Route 23, Blaine's Castle.   Finally, we manage to get the kill with the next attack. Now, we're in a pretty good place. Toxic has been slowly ticking up, but CHOW still has Focus Energy, and as long as I don't whiff again, the only thing I can't guarantee a 2HKO on anything except-  Oh God dammit.   Omanyte presents a problem. Because I didn't bring ZESTY, I don't have any clean way to deal with it. It occurs to me at this point that despite lacking the immediate power of CHOW, going for Sleep stall/Growth spam might have still been the right choice. But I made this bed, and now I'm going to lie in it. My next best option is YAMS, who also has sleep, and resists both Surf and Blizzard, and hits Omanyte for neutral damage with her own Surf. Downside, Poliwag's bulk is extremely lacking, and even a resisted Surf still has a very real chance of a 2HKO. In order to pull this through, I need to get lucky with sleep accuracy and sleep turns in a very protracted battle, while also hoping Omanyte doesn't critical or get good damage rolls on its own Surf.   You're going to have to take my word for it when I tell you that I was on the edge of my seat the entire time, and that it ends with a clutch critical hit after spending several turns one Hypnosis miss away from defeat.   After all that, his last Pokemon being Sandshrew is so anticlimactic that I'm almost disappointed.   Almost.   Losses*: 0 Total Losses*: 0 *With this particular team. And with that, we're finally done with jumping through hoops just for me to get my rear end kicked by gimmick teams.  Now I can get my rear end kicked by real teams! Next Time on Multi-Track Battling: The first one's always free. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Apr 7, 2021 |
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Apr 5, 2021 14:37
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Would you say that the end was almost a PIDDY?
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Apr 5, 2021 15:22
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The amount of sliver of HP saves, incredible. This time you are the CPU we all hate to face
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Apr 5, 2021 16:23
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PMush Perfect posted:The next format we're moving onto is the Petit Cup, with a level range of level 25 to 30. It's by far the most restrictive in terms of species, and resembles a format known as Little Cup, where the only Pokemon allowed are ones who can evolve, but haven't. However, Petit Cup also has another restriction. These unevolved Pokemon cannot be taller than 2 meters (6'8") or heavier than 20 kg (44 lbs), and this arbitrary restriction keeps out many otherwise-eligible Pokemon I'd love to use, including Tentacool, Ponyta, Mankey, and Venonat, as well as Little Cup all-stars like Staryu, Rhyhorn, and Doduo. I'm sorry, wait, what? I get the weight limit because it's supposed to be "petite" mon, but "max height of 2 meters"? According to this, Dwayne Johnson is "petite" enough to qualify for the petite cup.
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Apr 5, 2021 16:47
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Also I'm very sure Dex can't evolve, why is he allowed?
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Apr 5, 2021 17:17
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PMush Perfect posted:In certain situations, the AI will use a weaker move, especially Quick Attack, if it thinks it'll still be enough to KO. Except a normal Quick Attack wouldn't have had even a chance of KOing. The AI made a move that should've thrown the game, and hit the chance to possibly still win anyways. I was waiting for this horseshit to show up the cheating fucks that they are. At least we're through Not Little Cup! I'm excited for whatever team you have planned for Poke Cup.
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Apr 5, 2021 17:18
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Looking at the list of pokemon in gen 1... Pokemon who are 6'7: Venusaur (evolved, not allowed anyway) Ekans Exeggutor (evolved) Moltres (cant evolve) Mewtwo (cant evolve) 6'11: Snorlax (cant evolve) 7'3: Kangaskhan (cant evolve) Dragonite (can't evolve) 8'2: Lapras (can't evolve) 11'06: Arbok (can't evolve) 13'01: Dragonair (can evolve, but it isnt the lowest part of the line so its disallowed anyway) 21'04: Gyarados (cant evolve) 28'10: Onix (cant evolve) I feel like they just wanted to check 3 things: -can evolve -smaller than 6'7 (since it'll exclude a bunch of powerful, evolved/single stage pokemon) -lighter than 44 lbs Rather than just keep a list of "these pokemon are eligible" it checks. rip to ekans
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Apr 5, 2021 17:19
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It's more likely the check is "hasn't evolved". Both Farfetch'd and Ditto haven't evolved from anything and fit the weight and height criteria, despite not having evolutions themselves.
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Apr 5, 2021 17:23
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I've kind of talked about all the Pokemon for Pokemon Centers that I want to in the context of this challenge, but I still want to write some kind of Pokemon Center update. Anyone interested in a layman's terms/entry level breakdown of Gen 1 competitive Pokemon?
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Apr 5, 2021 18:11
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Sure.
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Apr 5, 2021 18:22
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Yeah go for it, we've grazed the topic before so having a slightly more in depth look aint bad, especially when the landscape is so drastically different
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Apr 5, 2021 18:24
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Apr 5, 2021 18:35
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Do whatever you want OP I'm just here for the ride.
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Apr 5, 2021 19:35
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PMush Perfect posted:I've kind of talked about all the Pokemon for Pokemon Centers that I want to in the context of this challenge, but I still want to write some kind of Pokemon Center update. Given how dramatically things have changed over the years, it'd be really interesting to hear what the competitive scene was like in Gen 1 and how it played out - only one Special stat, no Dark/Steel to push back on Psychic dominance, several types basically not existing, etc.
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Apr 5, 2021 19:41
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I've seen a fair bit of Gen 1 Showdown over the years, stuff is pretty wild and kinda fun? Little more interesting than the stallfests of Gen 2, but that's a super low bar to clear. It got a shift a few years ago when it was discovered that to facilitate certain types not being affected by certain status, Fire types not being Burned, etc, they made it so the secondary effects of a move didn't trigger against opponents of the same type as the move. However, they accidentally made it apply to Normal types as well, so Body Slam can't paralyze a Chansey, for example, which had to be reflected on simulators.
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Apr 5, 2021 20:42
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FingKof is a glorious nickname, for the record. 
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Apr 5, 2021 20:45
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Crosspeice posted:I've seen a fair bit of Gen 1 Showdown over the years, stuff is pretty wild and kinda fun? Little more interesting than the stallfests of Gen 2, but that's a super low bar to clear. Gen 1 competitive is a lot of fun. It's super unbalanced and massively centralized (pretty much every good team will share 3 or 4 pokemon with every other good team) and pretty rng dependent due to the ubiquity of paralysis and the crit mechanics but it's still pretty fun. Theres even been a couple of tiering shifts in the last few years with Victreebell becoming an OU pokemon and Golem dropping all the way to NU.
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Apr 5, 2021 20:58
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PMush Perfect posted:Anyone interested in a layman's terms/entry level breakdown of Gen 1 competitive Pokemon? Yes, I would like an update dedicated to Tauros, Snorlax, and Chansey.
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Apr 5, 2021 21:53
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Crosspeice posted:However, they accidentally made it apply to Normal types as well, so Body Slam can't paralyze a Chansey, for example, which had to be reflected on simulators.
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Apr 5, 2021 21:59
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